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Baker-Carter Commission: WHAT HAPPENED TO JIMMY?

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Amy6627 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 03:48 PM
Original message
Baker-Carter Commission: WHAT HAPPENED TO JIMMY?
I can understand Clinton in with the thieves. I'm expecting his admittance into the Carlyle Group any day now, but Jimmy Carter? Does anyone know why he would be involved in ANYTHING James K. Baker would be involved in?
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. my question exactly
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe Baker wanted to shadow Carter and inserted himself into
what would have been "The Carter Commission"....

I don't trust James Baker III one iota. No siree.
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. my sense is that he is too good-hearted and gentle to comprehend evil.
He never seems to realize that he's dealing with pure evil with the likes of Bush, Cheney and Jim Baker. He still seems to believe in appealing to our better angels instead of getting down in the mud and slinging it out.
Unfortunately, the time when being a decent gentleman won political points is long past.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nobody has read the report
Just more kneejerking instead of using the positive to bargain to get rid of the negative. There is alot of good in this report, we should build on it, not tear it apart and make ourselves look like idiots when we have to come back and point to it to get some of the voting reforms it recommends. The left applies no more objective thinking than the fundies. Read the damned report, or at least read MORE than what Conyers had to say:


The commission on Federal Election Reform, headed by Jimmy Carter and Jim Baker, released their recommendations today, entitled Building Confidence in U.S. Elections. The full report can be found at the Commission’s web site, which also has a section on press coverage of the report. While I would have preferred the report be more specific on some issues, such as requiring paper ballots, if Democrats focus on the important recommendations of the report, we can make a lot of progress. The report recommends:

To enhance ballot integrity, states should require voters to present a REAL ID card at the polls and provide non-drivers with a free photo ID card for voting, but during a transition, citizens without a card should be permitted to vote with a provisional ballot.

States should make voter registration and IDs accessible to all eligible citizens by using mobile offices and other means to register more voters and issue photo ID cards. States should oversee voter registration lists and verify the accuracy of the information produced by the counties. They also recommended numbered voter registration forms with receipts, so that voter registration can be easily tracked.

Congress should pass a law to require voter-verifiable paper audit trails on all electronic voting machines, and the EAC needs to take additional steps to ensure those machines are secure and accessible for people with disabilities. The states should also rectify whether the machine vote or the paper is the official ballot. In addition, voting machines manufacturers should be required to place the source code in escrow to be made available to testing authorities and independent experts. Local jurisdictions should also document every change to computer hardware or software.

The U.S. Election Assistance Commission and state election management institutions should be strengthened and reconstituted on a nonpartisan basis and no member of an election commission should serve on any campaign other than their own.

The report reminds us that the public owns the air waves and some members of the commission recommended legislation to require free air time. They also recommended that projected winners not be announced into polls have closed across the entire country. Sadly, they have taken the position that exit polls are not reliable, without fully investigating how this phenomenon suddenly began to occur in 2000 and just in the US, not other countries where polls are used to verify election integrity.

Overall, this is a good foundation to build on, if we’re united in supporting the important aspects of the report.

LINKS to report and more:
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1376
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. well said, I agree
We have to play with the hand we've got, and this is progress.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. As much as I don't trust Baker , I think

we can either get a little something to start with or NOTHING.

And, I agree, it is no where near all paper ballots but it is at least the start of the dialogue.

I LOVE and adore Conyers and I think his voice needs to be heard on this issue. I want to hope that Carter is playing "good guy" to Conyers "bad guy" on this issue and we may get something out of it.

If not, we get DIEBOLD forever.
Question: Wouldn't this begin in 2010?

If so, Jeb will be King by then.
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Amy6627 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You're right I didn't read it before I posted. I did just skim the
recommendations now, and they do seem like a good foundation. But I just can't see how James Baker would do anything selfless, or that would benefit Americans, not just the filthy rich ones. He was instrumental in getting W appointed in 2000 and he is defending the Saudi Royal family against the 9-11 families. Having James Baker involved in this commission makes me suspect.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Look, it was a tradeoff
Baker got voter IDs, Carter got international observers. They both agreed on audit trails. That's my take on it, anyway.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I don't care if spongebob wrote it
I will take the positive out of it and work my ass off to get it implemented. Everything is in there, everything, if we just get loud about what WE want. Picking out one thing and opposing the whole report on that one thing is foolish and short-sighted.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well said, sandnsea. Thanks for some sanity. Too many kneejerk naysayers.
Congress should pass a law to require voter-verifiable paper audit trails on all electronic voting machines, and the EAC needs to take additional steps to ensure those machines are secure and accessible for people with disabilities. The states should also rectify whether the machine vote or the paper is the official ballot. In addition, voting machines manufacturers should be required to place the source code in escrow to be made available to testing authorities and independent experts. Local jurisdictions should also document every change to computer hardware or software.


This is the highest level recommendation for Voter Verified Balloting. This is good news!
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not exactly...
it isn't endorsing "voter verified ballots"...it says "paper trail" and that's not the same thing.

It also says the states should "rectify" whether the machine vote or the paper is the official ballot...they shouldn't get to make that decision. It should be a paper ballot PERIOD.

But I suppose it's a start.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. It addresses that issue
So even though it didn't call for a paper ballot, at least it brought out that there is a difference between a paper ballot and a paper trail. Now, we can either spend all our energy bashing this report because it contains the name "Baker" and calls for a photo ID, OR we can take it as a whole and address EVERYTHING in it and push for what we want. The report also calls for felons to be given the vote, I'd trade photo ID for that.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I 'm still with you sandandsea
Edited on Tue Sep-20-05 08:48 PM by goclark

It's like taking medicine that that has a nasty taste but that may be the only thing that will make you feel better. : (

If someone can point me in the direction for anything that has a chance in hell other that the C - Baker (ugh) Commission let 's hear it.

I just have not heard that a soul is listening to my man Conyers and I love him like crazy.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. read the book "The Unfinished Presidency" when Baker was Bush I
sec of State he often called on Carter much to Bush's annoyance. They forged a good relationship, and Carter didn't sugar coat it then and he doesn't now.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. Carter is a PUSHOVER for the Rethugs. He REFUSED nation-wide electoral
standards for the Carter-Ford Commission report after the 2000 Selection, setting up Dubya's 2004 "re-election". Many Democrats warned him that giving billions to Republican governors in the "Help America Vote Act" would simply set in stone disfranchisment of minorities for the indefinite future, unless strict national electoral standards were included. Carter sided with Republicans then, and he sides with them NOW on ID as a "solution" to a non-problem. Why do you think he's been chosen again to co-chair an influential commission?

Either he has a blind spot when it comes to poll taxes, or he's one of theose white landed Southerners who thinks there's nothing wrong with shortchanging poor people and minorities at the polls.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. What a bunch of shit
Bush hates Carter because Carter has been one of his most consistent critics. Poppy also hates him for the same reason and he didn't hesitate to criticize Ragan either.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Jimmy Carter and "pushover" do not belong in the same sentence.
Carter is, perhaps, one of the only purely honest and genuine politicians left, and his efforts here are to reform the electoral system. If he has to work with Scumbag Jim Baker, then so be it.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Internet Voting is the big problem.
"States should make registration and voting more convenient with innovations like mobile registration vans and voting by mail and on the Internet" summarizes the NY Times at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/19/politics/19elect.html

Intenrnet voting is black box voting by long distance. No paper ballots the voter verifies.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "summarizes"
Yeah, because it did push for the vans. But it called vote by mail something to be studied further; and internet voting something a ways off. Maybe shitty summary would be a better description. Read the report before you comment on it. Everybody, everybody, has a political agenda or uses political agendas to make money.
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