On special forces, shadow wars and the Iraqi resistance

[nadinbrzezinski]

yes we have all seen the two SAS troops caught, some have even accused me of romanticizing them by calling them boys... funny the worst kind of insult to troops who are only refereed as boys during training or when they mess up, is to be called boys.

Anyhow, here is what amazes me... in our need to make our governments look worst than they are (and they are doing horrible things) some DU'ers are even saying that the resistance is of our own making since we need it to stay. Yes they are of our own making, but not for the reasons you think.

Look people by doing that you are also ignoring and diminishing the very real nationalism of Iraqis who will fight for their country (Just as I suspect many of you would fight for yours). By doing this you are also playing into some of the talking points and not even realize it.

Look folks what we were treated to was a shadow war... a small peak into it, and somebody made a serious and major mistake and since this is a shadow war you will never know, neither will I, how many people died due to this.

But stop the this is a false flag, or look the resistance it is us, or we are the ones planting the explosives. During the Vietnam war some in the US accused the Gov'ment of creating the VC fully out of full clothe, and as much as it may be tempting, the resistance is very real, the militaries in theater are doing all they can to stop them, and most of it when it involves Spec Ops will make your stomach turn... and we just saw a shadow war.

For some info on this, just a peak, go to these places, in particular the Juan Cole Blog

follow these links, for it looks like a shadow war... on top of the hot one

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/international/middleeast/20basra.html?ei=5070&en=8d0fbab462ba02c9&ex=1127793600&adxnnl=1&emc=eta1&adxnnlx=1127217669-m+hzRtbsn24IhI4aC7jtpw

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169841,00.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5B9D68F9-E629-41D5-BD68-D1DE59211CF3.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1573933,00.html

and in particular pay attention to Juan Cole

http://www.juancole.com/

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Sorry, but the old rules no longer apply

The traitors at BushCo have no honor. Remember, they admitted that they create their own reality. This is just one part of it. They want civil war in Iraq. They want brother to kill brother. Son to kill father. They will do whatever it takes to stir the pot. Too bad they rarely get caught but this crap has been going on for a long time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. yes this crap has been gong on for ages

but the resistance in Iraq is very real... very real and if it was your country would you fight or stay home?

Now answer that honestly

And you think the occupation force would just stay quiet while you blow up the local check point?

Some rules changed, but this reality has not... as much as bushco may want to change this, well this reality goes back to the first modern resistance movements, starting with .... the American Revolution

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Of course there is a resistance movement

and we made sure to supply them with enough ammo to keep both sides going for a long time. But that doesn't mean we aren't going into places just to stir things up or to create more trouble then there already is. BushCo has no intention of bringing peace to the region or anywhere else. Their primary goal is to create as much chaos as possible so that more brown people kill each other. Then they don't have to share their precious resources with as many people.

This isn't just Spec Ops trying to get info about their enemy, this is Spec Ops trying to start civil war in Basra and elsewhere.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. the civil war started months ago

and it was predicted by any who knew the area before the shooting started.

I know I know it has not been a headline, but it started months ago if not outright over a year go and quite brutally honest did not need us to encourage it... the tribal tensions are such that anybody could have predicted it. (Well anybody except the Neo Cons... they truly bought their press on this one and truly were caught off guard)

What we did though was leave of them toys unguarded so everybody could arm themselves, (breaking international law) but you have multiple wars ongoing at the same time... from simple family vendettas, all the way to this shadow war we just got treated to.

[htuttle]

9. Of course, but...

...the organized resistance, such as can be discerned through their public statments, denies being behind any attacks on civilians. And NOBODY knows who this 'Zarqawi' fella is. Nobody has seen hide nor hair of him in real life, for all that gets blamed on him.

While the occupation force wouldn't 'stay quiet' when a local check point gets blown up, they sure DO stay quiet when there's Iraqi on Iraqi violence, such as the numerous car bombs that go off in random civilian locations for no apparent reason except to stir up trouble between Shia and Sunni.

Just because there's a real resistance (and you're right, there is) does not mean that all acts of violence are their doing. There's a lot of violence. Some of it NOBODY seems to know where it comes from or who's responsible (though those SAS guys may have known just a thing or two).

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Zarqawi, most likely has been with the fishes long time

ago, during the Nam era we had a man who was our bogey man, not until people paid attention... now people are finally paying attention, and will soon ask hey didn't we kill that fella sarqawi? why are they blaming a dead man again?

Here is how you tell... violence of sunny vs shia, and the other way... look for the ever so popular parent and child was killed, fits local tradition, or the kid will be obligated to avenge the death of their dad. If it is a suicide bombing, that is not something iraqis do... so those are your external forces, whether they are us (if you want to believe that be my guest) or Jihadist, or a combo of both, either way those are at the most 10% of the resistance.

Now there is a civil war that started almost immediately and some of the blood feuds go back to the early 20th century.

And they stay quiet when the iraqi on iraqi violence goes on because quite frankly people in the west don't care... cruel yes, but that is the rank reality. We do, but ask your neighbors... I am serious about that.

[leftofthedial]

3. I don't believe the ENTIRE resistance is a bushturdgang black op

just enough of it to occasionally fan the flames, take out a key political target, up the ante, move the goal post . . .

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. and that is the pefect definition to a point

of a shadow war... that said most of it is local, most of it, with some real AQ elements involved too.

and these boys blew it... from the point of view of the shadow warriors on one side... and exposed them to the world for the other.

[WilliamPitt]

6. All your links are busted

except the Fox News and Juan Cole ones.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. hm strange, they were working let me see again

fixed

[endarkenment]

11. Yes fine but...

How exactly do you explain away british soldiers dressed up as arabs driving around in a car full of weapons and explosives shooting at the citizens of Basra?


Huh?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I have extensively in other threads

this was an intel op that went south very fast. This was not a false flag because it it had been a false flag hot extraction would not have been done, or they would have killed themselves, These boys were not deniable assets.

My take, and this is only my take from having talked with Snake Eaters over the years... they were carrying the party flavors (explosives) to win the trust of a target. Somehow some of their contacts smelled the rat and this went south very fast.

Hence why this is a shadow war... but the actions of the MOD speak volumes here... VOLUMES...

My take they were trying to infiltrate and the desguise was good enough to get them across the city, but when and if they met their contact... they could not keep the disguise...

And either the cops were their contacts and smelled a rat, or the cops just blew an operation... you and I will never know