What I want from the Democratic Party

[Modem Butterfly]

I want a BIG tent. HUGE. I want this tent to have just about everyone that wants to come in out of the rain. Commies and Capitalists, wild-eyed radicals and moderate liberals and theists and atheists and heteroseuxals, homosexuals, bisexuals, and people who'll do it with anything that consents and people who don't do it at all. Vegans and meat-eaters. Pointy headed academics and blue-collar workers and those middle-of-the-road white guys. I want a party that represents America.

Now call me naive, I've been called worse. It seems that with all this inclusion you're bound to have tension. That's the noise of democracy in action. The worst thing that we can do, IMNSHO, is to start jettisoning folks.

Let's face it: once you start kicking out the Commies for being too radical, and the atheists for scaring the religious, and the vegans for being too self-righteous and the gun owners for being too similar to republicans and the intellectuals for not being "middle America" enough, why, then, the party loses something, namely, the trust that we all put in it. Because if you can chase off one group, you can chase off MY group. In this case, the political really IS the personal.

[Dora]

1. Absolutely Right On.

Once the Democratic party started excluding voices, they stopped listening.

[ewagner]

2. Okay....so what's the common denominator?

What's the glue that keeps a diverse group together?

What issue(s) is/are strong enough to override the differences?

I've been looking but I can't find one yet.

[friesianrider]

3. Tolerance and acceptance.

Which I don't see a whole lot of on DU some days, unfortunately.

[pepperlove]

5. Mutual respect

would be a good glue, methinks. Added to what others say here.

[BurtWorm]

6. Liberty, Equal Opportunity, Justice

Those are starters.

[sweetheart]

8. The corporate status quo

The common denominator, is that if the democrats won back the white
house, the imperialism would go back in to "cloaked" mode. Then masses
of economic agents would set about establishing a similar sort of
empire to the republicans, where corporations rule the earth, and the
people run about as sub-citizens.

The common denominator is to exploit blacks, women and the poor as not
worth defending from this exploitation, to not have the balls to call
the drugs war a farce, and generally to be complicit in a lie.

So yes, its fun having a big tent. . . but its on fire.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Common threat

of the radical right.

[slackmaster]

33. Equality, justice, prosperity, opportunity for all

Government that helps those who need it, and lets people make up their own minds about how to live their lives.

Protection for the vulnerable, the infirm, and the environment, but only the amount of regulation needed.

We must embrace personal freedom again.

[Mich Otter]

80. I see the common denominator as being...

recognizing that we are all different and we need to accept and support each other for our own good.
The main issue is what is best for the whole lot of us. We all need health care, education, employment or pensions, housing, food, clean water and clean air.
On each of these issues, the Republicans have proven they do not have the answers. Hell, they don't even know the right questions.
My accepting you as an individual, and vice versa, is the key to our both getting ahead in this world.

[friesianrider]

4. Well you said it.

"...the vegans for being too self-righteous..."

Stereotypes and prejudice. Even in the supposedly "progressive" portion of the internet, there is judgment, stereotypes, and name-calling.

[Modem Butterfly]

9. That sound you heard is the point wizzing by your head

[flvegan]

31. Actually, that sound was this poster's point zooming past yours.

You didn't elaborate nor specify the "wizzing" point.

I agree with this poster, and elaborated earlier on this...

[friesianrider]

46. Uh, I was agreeing with you.

Hel-lo?! ;)

I'm just saying by you yourself saying them you're in essence perpetuating them, and you didn't really clarify much in your OP.

[Modem Butterfly]

85. No, you're not

As your PM also indicates.

I was pointing out reasons that are given by some to distance the party from certain groups. Pointing out that a stereotype exists is not, in fact, perpetuating that stereotype. Unless you want to accuse the NAACP of racism and the ADL of anti-semitism...

[Seabiscuit]

7. Fine. Just don't include the neocons and whacko KKKristians.

[Burning Water]

10. The trouble with

this big tent, as I see it, is that some groups don't want to be in it. Do you think the fundies really want to be with the atheists, the gays, the pro-choicers? I don't. Do the capitalists, or those, while not capitalists themselves are doing OK by the system, really want to be with the communists, the socialists, or the "welfare-queens"? I don't think so, and if you do, maybe you better get a reality check.

Screw 'em.

[slackmaster]

35. Fundamentalists and atheists can share many things

They can eat at the same restaurants, enjoy many of the same movies, appreciate the beauty of the natural world, drink beer, etc.

Why would it be impossible to have a political party that embraces some of the values that the various groups of people hold in common? Do we not all want to live in a world where people prosper and are treated well and as equals?

[Burning Water]

89. You mean that

fundamentalists are not necessarily evil?? That we may have the same goals, but differ in how to achieve them? I'll have to think about that one. For myself I believe that enjoying the same ethnic foods and craft beers does not mean that we think alike on the moral issues at all. And while I believe that conservatives, at least most of them, do not hate the poor, the black, the gay, or whatever, what they do do drives us on the other side of the spectrum insane. They regard others with a sublime and complete indifference, just so long as they don't try to interfere with them. "It's your problem; you solve it."

[Alamom]

11. Respect for Individuals.

Regardless of personal beliefs, lifestyle, where they live, etc.

We're all here for the same purpose...

[smbolisnch]

12. DU doesn't seem to represent the democratic party lately.

Anymore, all I see is hate and elitism and self rightousness spewed.
Most democrats, at least where I come from, are what many on DU would consider rednecks, and/or beneath you.

Most everything I read here is negative, and some people here are so stuck up it is mind boggling.

[BeFree]

14. Really?

What DU are you reading? The one I've been reading for three years now has a whole lot of wisdom, care for individuals different than themselves, a great deal of tolerance, and except for matters mentioning *, a lot of enthusiasm.

[Beaverhausen]

16. Apparantly you've missed a few discussions here...

...like those about women's reproductive rights, religious freedom, animal rights, the environment, children in restaurants...

we definitely disagree with each other on a lot of topics here and I too think there is too much intolerance.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beaverhausen]

45. I've been on the wrong side too many times?

How very tolerant of you.

[BeFree]

58. You have any links?

Maybe I haven't been reading such threads, really I avoid those threads that are just flame-baits. That could be the problem.

[friesianrider]

62. Yes, that is your problem.

"Maybe I haven't been reading such threads, really I avoid those threads that are just flame-baits. That could be the problem."

Yes, that is the problem. Hang out in the Lounge a few days. There's a vegetarian-bashing thread started in there every week or so. You won't have to wait long to find one.

[friesianrider]

48. Wow...

"I think you have maybe just been on the wrong side too many times, and without considering you were wrong, decided that everybody was intolerant of you. Or, you are overly sensitive, eh?"

Well, when all vegetarians are flat-out called names like lunatics, self-righteous, and judgmental...if that makes me overly sensitive then I guess I am. The sickest part is there's not one or two DUers who do this. There's four, five, six, and seven posters who regularly start threads just to make veggies feel like shit. Countless others just see these hateful and harassing posts and just ignore it. Trust me, if you changed out vegetarian with "black," "hispanic," "woman," or "Jew"...this kind of closed-minded, hateful behavior would NEVER be tolerated. But because most of DU apparently enjoys some good old vehetarian-bashing fun, everyone just sits aside. The nastiest, most vicious posters are the ones who start this shit, and I have personally received PMs from people who wanted to speak up and defend us but were afraid to because these posters are friggin' bullies. Plain and simple. And because we don't find it humorous that something we take seriously is the butt of weekly jokes, we need to "lighten up."

I mean look at you. You have no idea what smb is referring to, and you're automatically assuming that she is on the "wrong" side and "overly sensitive." THAT is what she's prob referring to.

[BeFree]

52. I see what you mean

You are hurt by some remarks made on an internet forum by someone you don't even know. Ya know what, sometimes the furr flies here. But from what I've seen it's mostly mild and tolerant. But then, I'm not at all weird. LOL

[flvegan]

53. But then, you're not at all weird...

So you're saying that the poster you respond to is? Why?

[BeFree]

63. Can't take a joke, eh?

That may be part of your problem, then.

[smbolisnch]

64. Was that a joke? I thought it was just more rude BS.

Why are you so angry about my perceptions at DU?

[friesianrider]

68. Like I said.

Please try and follow me here.

If you were gay, and I made a homophobic joke you were offended by, should I tell you "can't you take a joke"?

My vegetarian lifestyle is extremely important to me and a very important part of my life. It is almost like a religion to me I guess you could say, because it influences virtually all decisions in my life (ok, well at least a great many decisions). I do expect to come here to DU and not be the butt of weekly jokes for something I believe in to my core. Maybe I have too high expectations for DU. I expect this kind of puerile behavior from FR, but from DU I expect at least a minimum amount of tolerance to not be made fun of on a weekly (and sometimes daily) basis. I am hardly a tightwad, but things around here are ridiculous where veggies are concerned.

If you think this is something to be mocked and are going to tell me I have a stick up my ass because I can't find the humor in being called a psychotic vegetarian, then I will have to respectfully disagree. Just don't act like that and call yourself a progressive.

Frankly, I'm shocked at how intolerant your position is on this. I have no doubt you wouldn't dream of defending hateful jokes aimed at gays or blacks. Why should this be any different? Are we at DU or are we not tolerant of others?

[flvegan]

77. Why would you say that, and when did that become "my problem" friend?

And, more specifically, what is my "problem" that you allude to, please?

[friesianrider]

56. Well, if you were a black man...

Would you be hurt by some "mild and tolerant" jokes about lynchings? Or slavery? The same people who have called vegetarians self-righteous psychopaths were getting all bent out of shape over the "What's Bush's position on Roe v. Wade" joke for God's sake.

What if you were a woman, and there were "mild and tolerant" jokes about physical forms or intelligence? What if you were a Jew, or a Muslim? What if you were gay, and people made gay jokes "just for fun" and they were "mild and tolerant"? Would you tolerate ANY gay jokes at all? What exactly constitues a "mild and tolerant" joke? You know damn well you would never stand for joking about race, religion, color, or sexual orientation. You wouldn't bash gays or transsexuals for their lifestyle choices so why is it ok to bash me because of my lifestyle?

I have personally been called and seen other vegetarians been called lunatics and psychopaths. Does that cross the line in your book or should I just "lighten up"?

[BeFree]

70. Of course it crosses the line

And whenever I come cross crap like that I take offense. Usually the bad guys post's get deleted.

I just haven't seen the stuff you describe very often here on DU. And, like I say, if there are personal insults, they get deleted, as they should.

I'm sorry you see DU differently than me. I see it as a pretty damn good place, with outstanding qualities. I just haven't seen the ugliness you describe much at all, if ever. Show me some links, I'll go blow those bad guys away.

[friesianrider]

72. Of course DU is a good place.

If you've missed all the vicious threads bashing us, you must really not be on here that much or are just scrolling past flamebait. But I'm saying that many here defend poking fun at vegetarians (like you did in previous posts) because we're just supposed to swallow the BS or risk being called "stuck up" or "self righteous." I do not consider myself either of these. All I ask is tolerance, and not to be made fun of for something I care deeply about. That's all.

[BeFree]

71. Dupe...deleted

[flvegan]

51. I back this poster 100%.

In the statements made.

What specifically, is the "wrong side" please?

I'll wait...

[BeFree]

57. Wrong side

...is when you are proven to have the wrong idea.

Hey, maybe yall have been clicking on too many freeper threads? I must admit I can spot them from a mile away and stay away from those. Try it.

[flvegan]

59. What is the "wrong idea" please?

And after that, what is the proof you allude to? No...you certify to it, sorry.

Please also provide the proof.

This is where you get to prove up your point.

I'll wait...

[friesianrider]

60. On the contrary, dear friend.

"...is when you are proven to have the wrong idea."

Quite the opposite. Time and time again whenever a debate about meat versus vegetarianism turns into a health debate or moral/ethical or environmental impact debate...trust me. "Our" side always ends up being the last one standing.

And, your sarcasm is noted here.

[smbolisnch]

67. Show me where I was proven wrong.

I have no idea how this sub thread has taken this turn. You are spinning it out of control

What exactly are you referring to?

[smbolisnch]

18. You must be reading with rose colored glasses.

DU is NOT the beacon of tolorance and peace it should be.
Just look at all of the anger and hate in GD.

[BeFree]

43. I've looked

...and I don't see what you are talking about. Maybe you have shit-stained glasses?

[smbolisnch]

44. Oh yes....when you have nothing mature or intelligent to say, insult.

I will just say, I rest my case. :rofl:

[BeFree]

61. Rose colored glasses vs. Shit stained

Life is all in how you perceive it.

Yall ain't being very tolerant of ol' befree, now are ya? LOL

[smbolisnch]

69. Well, I perceive anger and hate as just that.

Whether you hate an ethnic group, a political party or a sub-culture, it's all the same. :shrug:

I don't really see what your point is? However, you have proven mine over and over here tonight.

[friesianrider]

75. Now I've seen it all.

Treat others as you wish to be treted, BeFree. If you'll reread your posts, it seems it was you who started with the thinly veiled insults, snide comments, and sarcastic remarks (and the occasional outright insult).

Now you won't have to wonder what kind of intolerant, closed-minded, Freeperish attitude we're talking about, will you?

[flvegan]

55. And maybe you haven't "looked" beyond what you want to look at.

"Shit-stained"...interesting choice of, well, words.

[smbolisnch]

81. Here you go - perfect example.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4832849

Tell me, is it still shit stained glasses? :eyes:

[BeFree]

74. At the risk of repeating myself.

What DU are you reading? The one I've been reading for three years now has a whole lot of wisdom, care for individuals different than themselves, a great deal of tolerance, and except for matters mentioning *, a lot of enthusiasm.

Good night yall. I hope your perception of DU changes.

[friesianrider]

76. I hope your attitude changes.

Your fly-by insults were unimpressive, but typical. Clearly you see it is YOU who is "in the wrong" and are cowering away from your intolerant and obnoxious comments. Glad to see we've enlightened you though.

[flvegan]

78. Actually, you are correct.

There is a whole lot of wisdom, care for individuals different from themselves, a great deal of tolerance, and except for matters mentioning *, a lot of enthusiasm.

However, that doesn't change what the poster stated, does it? There's also a whole lot of the opposite, right?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. As a southerner

living and working with "rednecks" I thought that for a while. (That DU was all about negativity towards this subculture)

And while you see it here and there, mostly I have found people to be open to discussion about things. I think sometimes the whole redneck issue is almost a joke, kind of Jeff Foxworthy. It is easy to forget that racism is racism, no matter what color it comes in or what group or culture is disrespected.

Now, every once in a while there are a flurry of really angst-filled bummed out posts of despair. But they usually get called on it. I figure it is perhaps a generational thing and it's angry young man stuff. (or angry young woman!

Now, what IS here in spades is pure undistilled hate towards GWB and his ilk. That was a little hard for me at first because I don't do hate too well. But I understand.

[Greyhound]

13. Well said. May I add that I'd like to see them win a few elections?

I think it is possible by simply advocating tolerance. We are pretty intolerant on quite a few issues.

[BeFree]

15. Ahem! We have won elections.

The last two presidential elections were stolen. I can furnish you with plenty of evidence if you'd like. Please, just ask.

[Greyhound]

24. Blah, blah, blah. If the DNC hadn't, in 2004 forced, probably the only

man in amerika that could lose to the * onto the ballot 'cause they were scared that Dean would be "too radical" and upset their power base. He might make real changes that *gasp* could have democratized the power base in this country, or at least The Party.
As for Gore in 2K I blame donna brazile & co. for running the worst campaign I've seen in my lifetime (and after the Dukakis debacle that's saying something). She presented him as a stiff, elitist, know it all. I know this is not the truth, but that was all the sheeple got to see. Running away from Clinton wasn't the brightest move either.
I agree that the elections were undoubtedly rigged, but the bottom line in both cases was that they were close enough that the election could be rigged with plausible deniability, and nobody wants to admit that their vote doesn't count. Gore didn't even carry his own State, nor did Kerry Edwards.
So if you want to blame somebody for the disaster that this nation has become, you need look no further than the Democratic Party. :banghead:

[BeFree]

41. Gobbledegook

Blame the democratic party? You must consider me to be an idiot. I tell you the election was stolen and you spew a bunch of gobbledegook what if's, and's or but's, in your OPINION!

Screw your OPINION, the election was stolen, no if's, and's, or but's. There is evidence. Wanta see it, or not?

[Greyhound]

82. I'm fully aware of the evidence, and it's not going to help. sorry. n/t

[slackmaster]

34. That attitude sounds petulant to the roughly 50% who voted for Bush

And the large number of Democrats who feel we lost at least one of those elections (take your pick or take both) fair and square.

[BeFree]

36. Petulant? WTF?

Do you need evidence that the elections were stolen or do you just want to go around thinking it was all fair and square? I can give you, or anyone else, the evidence.

It's petulant to deny it was stolen without ever having read the evidence. Fuck those who doubt it. Anyone who is sane and studies the evidence will feel the way I do. I guarantee it.

[slackmaster]

38. Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger

Please calm down, then go back and read what I actually wrote.

[BeFree]

40. Messenger?

It sounds like you believe them, and believe it was fair and square, otherwise why would you post such stuff?

[slackmaster]

88. My post was not about what I think or believe

And neither is this one.

A MAJORITY of people do not believe the elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen.

Neither Al Gore nor John Kerry have publicly said they believe either election was stolen. They've both taken personal responsibility for the outcome of their failed campaigns.

Belief in stolen elections is a minority POV, seen as a fringe idea by many American voters. We need to win big, win with a tamper-proof majority. Nobody can cheat if the results aren't close.

[understandinglife]

20. Just gave it # 5. Well stated.

Peace.

[BamaBecky]

21. What I want is simple! A full accounting of 9/11! The truth!..n/t

[dhinojosa]

22. Ok, everyone except the Irish....

hehehe.

If you don't know what I am talking about then watch "Blazing Saddles"

[lonestarnot]

73. Well, if there aren't any Flogging Molly tunes, I'm not coming to the

dance.

[Mr_Spock]

23. I was waiting for the punch line...

I agree with you - but I've seen you attack many people here including me for disagreeing with you at times. No skin off my back, I like the debate, but I couldn't help posting this sarcastic reply - nah nah nah nah nah :P

[Modem Butterfly]

86. I disagree

And given the pure vitriol you have thrown at others, I find it ironic that you take that position, particularly in a thread that is supposed to be about tolerance.

[flvegan]

25. Labels will always kill us. Always.

Drawing lines in the sand to identify people will always divide, regardless of intent. No, your point didn't "whiz past my head" as you told another poster, but when, even with positive intent, you even suggest that Commies might be too radical, you put them up against the wall. Scary athiests? Self righteous vegans (guess that one's mine, too).

A better line, in my opinion, would have been something like:
"once you start kicking people out for being too radical, and folks that make the religious uneasy, anyone who's too self-righteous, those with traits akin to republicans, and those that don't fit into cookie-cutter 'middle America' enough..."

What unites us? Desire for truth? Justice? What's right? What's good for the world community?

What unites the right? The self. That's all they care about. Getting ahead, and getting what the individual wants, regardless.

Unite over what we all have in common, and respect (or if unable, avoid) differences. If a difference comes up, and discussion evolves, keep it civil. Look at some of the bullshit flamewars around here (and other liberal discussion boards).

Hell, I'm one of those vegans. Activist, too. I've made tons of friends at the local moveon events, the Cindy vigil, etc. Many wore leather, ate hamburgers, spoke of going to the circus, etc. All things that detest to my core. I won't distance myself from any of them, nor the events. Because at those events, it's not about leather, factory farming or circus animals. Different time, different place, different focus.

You want big tent? Then we all need the big tent mentality. One tent, one group, no lines in the sand.

[IndyOp]

26. What I want from the Dems: BLOODY KNUCKLES

Enough is enough. They must take bold action to stop evil. NOW!

:kick:

[Scoots]

27. One word:

One word: Cajones.

[Maine Mary]

28. Amen!

That was wonderful Modem Butterfly!

[Gregorian]

29. If only to save a dream called America.

Otherwise we couldn't talk about religion, sex, diet, population, science, or just about anything else. I posted my first and last posts on the religion forum here, and it was crappy. Very discouraging. I'm not going to try and prove the existence of god on a political forum any longer. I just want this administration in orange jumpsuits.

I thought I was open minded. But when I get tromped on by posters, even on DU, I end up wanting to go hide like I did for the last many years.

If we could all look at a bigger picture, then we could do it.

My suggestion is to create a forum where nothing is allowed but politics.

[blossomstar]

30. Bravo!!! Great post!

[slackmaster]

32. I agree completely!

Authoritarianism and dogmatism are our albatrosses. Recommended (10th recommendation).

[jzodda]

37. You would not think that from some of the discussions around here

I agree with you but I have read discussions where intolerance is the word of the day, and not even willing to acknowledge the other guys point of view.

Like? If you do not like Hugo Chavez then you can not fit into the tent

Support not withdrawing right away from Iraq before at least trying some more to stabalize? Then you are called "repo-lite" or worse

Support not "peeing" on former Chief Justice Requenist's grave? Then you are somehow not a real dem

What we have not figuredd out how to do of late around here is agree to disagree and still fight the good fight. Some guy last week said he was leaving DU for good because people were angry with Nader. I have always believed that the Dem party has alot of room for alot of people and just because the majority do not agree on some issues it does not mean that the party is somehow not for you

[Rowdyboy]

39. But where does one draw the line? Pro-life Dems are routinely dissed

here (I'm not one, but I respect their right to differ). Should pro-life Dems be allowed into the big-tent? How about opponents of gun control who are economic/social liberals? Must everyone accept gay marriage or is supporting civil unions enough? Can coal miners find common ground with college professors?

There are so many competing interests within any party, its incredibly difficult to forge a coalition that draws 50% of the vote. But if we can't follow you're advice, we're doomed to lose forever.

[Beaverhausen]

49. to me, calling oneself "pro-life" means anti-choice

and choice is something that is part of the democratic party platform.

[Rowdyboy]

65. I agree personally, but is it required? Bob Casey is not 100% pro-choice..

Can he come under the tent? How about Democratic representative Gene Taylor of south Mississippi? He is fighting desperately for his hurricane ravaged constituents who've lost their homes and businesses and are being shafted by the insurance companies. Can he come under the tent, or do his pro-life convictions make him unaceptable?

I've been pro-choice since before Roe-v-Wade, but I willingly accept Democrats who differ with me on this issue. Can you?

[Beaverhausen]

87. oops

[bvar22]

47. I have NO tolerance for the "GREED Driven" people

who are DISMANTLING the protections and rights of the Middle Class, the Working Class, and the POOR.
I don't believe there is room for them in the Human Race, much less the Democratic Party.
GREED DRIVEN RICH PEOPLE are already well represented by the Republican Party.
The Democratic Party needs to represent the alternative.

I say a LOUD, EMPHATIC NO! to Corporatists (Fascists) inside the Democratic Party!
They ARE the PROBLEM!


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM
for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners)
at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR!


Guess you could say I strongly disagree with the OP.

[jzodda]

50. I understand your point of view but

It happens to be the case that the powers that be in the party would have no room for you, not for the corporate owners. The party itself wants those people and wants them badly. Those are the guys that get invited to all the events, those are the guys who actually sit down with the powers that be in the party, those are the guys who take the leading roles in many areas of the party.

In fact while you say there is no room for the corporate owners in the party, a very good case can be made that THEY are the ones who are controlling the party you say has no room for them

[bvar22]

54. Exactamundo!

They ARE controlling the Anti-Labor agenda of the Democratic Party, but more people are waking up.
My mission is to spread the word.
These people MUST be EXPOSED and driven back to the Fascist Wing of the Republican Party where they came from!

[bvar22]

66. *

Republican GREED has now KILLED more Americans than Al Qaeda!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners)
at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[jzodda]

84. I hope so! keep up the good fight!

[Mich Otter]

79. Acceptance is the problem.

The problem with the Big Tent is getting everyone to grow up and act like adults when there is someone in the Tent who is different from yourself. Too many people, whether Democrats or Republicans, are uncomfortable with people they perceive to be "different".

We are going to have a small party if we insist on all the members being in agreement.
Come on, Democrats, encourage your fellow Democrats to grow up and learn about, and accept, other kinds of lifestyles and view points. Learn to debate other views, not debase them.

[stickdog]

83. Everybody who is NOT a fucking selfish bastard is welcome.

Even the more pragmatic and less satanic of the selfish bastard class (you know: the ones who realize that any sustained economy must be driven by demand and don't agree with policies that murder thousands just to amass more wealth and power) are eligible.