I had to leave my Church over Bush...Why did Mainstream Protestants Leave

[KoKo]

And...if you Didn't Leave your Mainstream: Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Luthran Churches....How did you STAY and COPE with it All?

I can't do the Unitarian thing...it's not "GRAND" enough for me. And, I'm not a Quaker either...too sparce..yet I support EVERYTHING they do with ANTI-War.....with some exceptions.

WHERE ARE THEY...With Falwell, Robinson and Graham? WHY DON'T they SPEAK UP?

Our "Mainstream Religions are losing congregations to the EVANGELICALS...and yet like many of our Mainstream Dems...they stay "silent" figuring when the battle is done...the flocks of believing Sheep will COME BACK???? :shrug: WHY SHOULD THEY COME BACK???

[Not Me]

1. United Church of Christ

www.ucc.org

[NMDemDist2]

4. my inlaws go to a UCC in a small Eastern Washington town, the consensus

of the congregation was "Judge not lest ye be judged" on the matter of Gay Marriage. and some folks left the church over it

[Tikki]

17. Wow Eastern Washington....

been there....that territory is pretty much a RW enclave.

Good for your IL's Churchfolk....


Tikki

[NMDemDist2]

22. agreed, I was amazed. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

11. The Church of Christ is pretty good too

That's what I go to. My preacher is pretty good and I enjoy it. The church itself is pretty independent. A lot of the college age kids I know are pro-Bush except my brother and I but we're as a whole very indie. It definitley appears we're going through everything again with rights. We haven't learned. *Sigh*

[we can do it]

20. You beat me to it

My church's motto is "A caring church for thinking people".......imagine that

[KoKo]

52. You know I've thought of trying them. When CNN wouldn't allow their

ads about gays and the war...I figured they might be worthwhile to look and and went on their website. The site did caution that their churches vary from place to place...where each church decides what it's form of service is even though they do have a Church Heirarchy that does give guidance. Since I live in such a Conservative area, I was worried that the two churches here, might be very fundamentalist.

Maybe I will check them out further, though.

[kestrel91316]

54. Didn't the UCC used to be the Congregationalists??

[evlbstrd]

2. Church of American Secular Humanism.

Or CASH!
Courtesy of Frank Zappa.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Lutheran here, and no problem. Not Missouri Synod.

All the old Swedes (and I am becoming one of them) that I grew up with revered FDR. They would have ripped W a new one, I guarantee that.

[tanyev]

16. I am Missouri Synod.

My pastor is very careful not to take a political stance in the public forum of the worship service. I'm sure there are Bush supporters in the church, but I've never heard anyone at a church function talking politics.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. Same here

Same here. My preacher is like that too. He's talked about how we can be a better country for God and mostly talks about helping the poor and bringing a message of peace. I have no idea what he is personally though. :shrug:

[Hardrada]

43. Our Lutheran church here (albeit ELCA)

is basically the GOP only with better music! The pastor is a good Democrat though but quiet about it. His late wife was more of an activist.

[slackmaster]

5. Church of the SubGenius here

Ol' "Bob" doesn't want to forgive you for your sins. "Bob" wants to JUSTIFY your sins!

[toddaa]

46. Discordian myself

fnord

[BiggJawn]

48. And everybody needs more "Slack"

[rox63]

6. I know plenty of members of those churches that despise *

I have a friend who is an elder in her Presbyterian church, and is as lefty as they come. The pastor of another friend's Episcopal church is openly gay. The Methodist Church came out strongly against the Iraq War.

None of those denominations are fundy or evangelical. Are all the churches just more conservative where you live?

[FreedomAngel82]

27. My grandfather he was

an elder of the church for twenty-seven years and he didn't like Bush at all. Before he died he was able to vote this last year and he voted for Kerry and my grandmother doesn't like Bush at all either. :)

[kestrel91316]

55. I went to a Presbyterian church here a few times and they

seemed more fundie than the Presbyterian church I grew up with. So I don't go. Maybe UCC would work?

[jackster]

7. have you check out Soujourners?

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm

[KoKo]

53. I'll check the link...thanks. have not heard of them..

but I'm open to other spirtual groups. When I think of Sojourners I think of Sojourners for Truth...sticks in my head...a hymn or something.

[Marymarg]

8. I love my church

I am an Episcopalian and my parish church is wonderful. Very tolerant and accepting. We really try to use Jesus as an example.

My parish is very active: helping local Aids Outreach, Habit for Humanity, lots of things for the poor and ill, etc,. etc.. We are cooking dinner on Mondays for Katrina survivors who are in our city.

[faithfulcitizen]

51. All the Democrats in Indiana seem to be Methodist.

:shrug:


on-edit: oops, sorry, meant to reply to OP. ...man, i always do that...:banghead:

[Shoeempress]

9. Isn't the whole "grand" thing in churches in direct contravention

with Jesus' teachings? Aren't one's religious beliefs supposed to be based on beliefs not the building the services are held in?

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Maybe grand means high church liturgy rather than the building

[Shoeempress]

18. Than what did "sparse" mean, shortened biblical passages?

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. No, they have a very... "plain" service style. In some cases they just

sit and say nothing unless they feel God calls them to say something. As opposed to high church like Catholicism with it incense and many chants and rites and whatnot. It isn't that one style is good and one is bad, just that individuals may find one helps them feel closer to God than the other.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. Exactly!

"Smells and bells"

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Yes

Jesus said it best: wherever there are two/three people there is my church.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. I'd guess that "grand" isn't about the building at all

but about the liturgy. And I understand that completely.

Raised as a RC, the Episcopal church offers me intellectual freedom and far greater freedom of conscience and I get to keep the lovely mass. Some other protestant liturgies seem somehow sterile to me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Pick a liberal church and evangelize it with the points you are making.

Get up and make a statement either through a testimony during the service or by organizing some sort of project and speaking on it at announcement time to invite people to join.

[RevCheesehead]

13. That's a regional thing.

There are plenty of liberal Christians in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, etc... who are in the mainstream Protestant tradition.

I was in North Carolina for 10 years. I had to leave. I just couldn't take it anymore. I don't recognize the Methodist church there - it has been co-opted by Baptists.

[cally]

14. Have you looked for a 'Progressive'

church in your area? I just found several churches in my area that have signed onto a progressive pledge. Basically, it's a statement of beliefs. I found several Methodist and Presbyterian churches in my area that are members.

Here's their statement:

Do you find more grace in the search for meaning than in absolute certainty, in the questions rather than in the answers?

Do you have religious interests and longings but cannot accept the beliefs and dogmas you associate with Christianity?

Are you repelled by claims that Christianity is the "only way"?

What we mean by "Progressive Christianity."
What's happening right now in the TCPC network.
Find a progressive church|organization |individual
Join or support the TCPC network.
Constellation, a Progressive Christian journal
TCPC weblogs

http://www.tcpc.org/

[KoKo]

50. Yes, and have tried so many churches

in my area where I just didn't feel comfortable. Not that the congregation wasn't welcoming ..it just wasn't what I was looking for, for one reason or another.

I'm kind of a traditionalist but have a radical side. It's kind of hard to get that together sometimes.

We found a wonderful Presbyterian Church that we loved but they ended up being too radical for the Presbytery that governs them here in NC and they got thrown out. The congregation split and started a new church in a Shopping Center...then got all kinds of money and then they went "Fundie" They started to doing all "contemporary services" and left out the traditional service so we finally had to leave.

We've had a bizarre time of it going from church to church where we live. Maybe we are too picky or something..:shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

15. I wore my Kerry button to church about this time last year

and found out I go to church with a buncha Democrats, right in the middle of freeperville, too. Huzzah!

We're ELCA, so that might explain it a bit. "Liberal" Lutherans. We got the official shake of the finger from the Missouri Synod.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Nice!

I had a Kerry/Edwards pin on my purse too and bumper sticker on my car. I wore it proudly. :) I dunno of any one else in my church who voted for Kerry though besides my mother and brother (and I of course).

[KoKo]

57. Good for you....The places I've checked out would have

given me odd "stares." Glad to hear you had that great experience.

There was one Unitarian Church we checked out during the Campaign and we would have fit in with our bumper sticker for Kerry/Edwards..but we just didn't like the service. It wasn't traditional enough with the music and a prayer book. They were very nice and welcoming folks, though.

[LittleClarkie]

60. Unitarian is sorta wierd. Sort of a church for non-believers

Never been there, but known folks who did. They sounded like they had lectures on issues instead of sermons and such.

[Silverhair]

23. That has been happening for over 50 years.

In the 70's a book was published, "Why Conservative Churches are Growning." The Mainstream churches have had a declining membership for a long time.

The basic reason is that conservative churches take their religion seriously. They really believe, and are NOT ashamed to say it, that Jesus really lived and died for people's personal redemption.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Another reason

The mainstream churches are far friendlier to single, childless, and GLBT people than the fundies, who practically require marriage and children. The fundies therefore win merely by natural increase.

[Az]

24. This question is problematic

It sort of begs the question of what one goes to church for. Is it for the social contact or is it for the search for truth?

You obviously want to have your cake and eat it too. But what if the path you are on due to your own beliefs no longer coincide with the path doctrinal churchs are on. Is your attendance to appease your comfort or is it to be part of the search for truth.

The churchs long ago were thrown from their seats of power. With the rise of secular based systems of governance they found their reach cut down.

They have had to find ways of exerting themself since then. Some combined with more active social concepts and adapted. But others held to orthodox ideas and continued to try to impress on its followers the authority inherant in their claims.

In learning to deal with our post modern society it was discovered that through using its methodologies they could regain some measure of their control. The lure of this I fear is too great even for once liberal bastions of thought. Thus the churchs are taking a hard turn to the right and trying to recapture some of the social control they once had.

In this situation you find yourself wandering. You want things to be how they used to be. The church a voice for moral causes for all. Instead it has become twisted to what you believe.

You have my sympathy. Truly. You didn't leave your belief. But something is not right any longer.

[wildcat78]

31. You said everything I feel!

I'm ELCA and the number of people who believe in creationism and Noah's flood just disgusts me. When I confont them with scientific facts, I get called a heretic.

They forget thay we have to serve others especially those who are in need.

I'm totally disgusted with the who religion thing and thinking about dropping out all together.

[KoKo]

49. Yes...I understand what you say. I feel our MS Churches have left duty

for moral causes like to feed the poor and nurture souls and to keep us from going into wars over lies to bring someone elses idea of freedom to people who had their own form of beliefs in what freedom is.

I'm devastated that they didn't stand up all these years when Falwell and Robertson were creating empires off the backs of little folks who looked to them for hope and sent them their hard earned dollars and they used it to build Media Empires and go abroad and use money for the poor children to align themselves with Dictators and Tyrants to get rich.

I'm so sorry for all that...and it happened while our own churches refused to preach about it an call them out...because they were too timid they would anger their congregations.

At times it reminds me of our Democrats who sat back and watched for decades while the Repugs helped the Fundies and the Fundies cultivated and grew the Repugs and the vileness of their anti-Christian philosophy grew into the division and hate we see today.

I think that's what I feel. My church left me...I didn't leave it. I tried to live my life according to what I was taught...but it seems the MS Church heirarchies didn't live by the message they preached.

:-(

[BTGirl]

25. Buckle on Bible Belt

I live right in the middle of what they call here "the buckle on the bible belt." I attend a small Episcopal church, however, and they are very open to all sorts of ideas. We have two female ministers, people of various races, and several openly gay couples. We have wealthy people who sit beside street people in the congregation. Our minister goes to a local park and does what she calls "standing for peace." I think there really is hope out there for the rest of us who are not Jerry Falwell's sort.O8)

[KoKo]

56. It's good to hear about those churches out there that folks have found

comfort in. Alot depends on the minister, pastor, etc. and the congregation...it takes time to search them out and it's great that you have found one. :-)'s

[wildcat78]

26. Baptists

I had a baptist tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe in the biblical creation account and in Noah's flood. How dare I ask for scientific proof of the biblical account for creationism.

[RevCheesehead]

28. I've had them tell me I'm going to hell

because I'm a woman preacher.

Good thing I don't believe in hell. :evilgrin:

[MazeRat7]

32. As a Buddhist, I would suggest....

Look to your own personal community (Sangha) for like minded beings to share in your spiritual experience. Look for those that share your view of compassion, right thought, tolerance, love, and responsibility to your community. These things you can find in many "formal" organizations as well as within "informal" organizations so perhaps I would do some exploration.

Finally, others don't control your experience (eg "leave over Bush")....you do.

MZr7

[KoKo]

47. I like the music and the service from the Book of Common Prayer...

and while I probably have other ideas than Mainstream Churches are into today (like more metaphysical beliefs) ...I still like what I was used to in ritual. I know..it's weird but there are few comforts in todays fast changing world.

Thanks, though.

[yellowdogintexas]

33. where are you? North/South/East/West? Makes a big difference!

I am a United Methodist. On the whole, Methodism is quite liberal, but you will find some congregations which are quite the opposite.

I happen to be part of a large moderate to liberal congregation, with very liberal clergy and a massive social conscience. Our sanctuary is NeoGothic, our liturgy and ritual is quite formal and "high church", which I just love, and the message is quite modern. Works for me.

You just have to shop around. I found this church because at one time the morning services were broadcast live on a local station and I started watching them..the message from the pulpit made me believe I could be happy in that church. Our current minister isn't that outspoken from the pulpit, but he is on a one to one basis.

Good luck.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. Well, it seems to me that the Episcopal church is fighting to

stay on the side of inclusiveness against the smaller forces within it who would have the church turn back to a far more exclusive view of humankind. My own bishop has had his hands full, as several of our parishes have (backed by big, right-wing, money) been making something of a publicity stunt out of their fight to discriminate.

I've felt no need to hide my liberalism in my congregation. Most agree with me on a lot of counts, I suspect. Those that don't -- well, we get along, and disagree... and that's ok, too. Because eventually they'll see the light, I'm sure of it!

[KoKo]

37. I'm an Episcopalian to my core...but here...in the South, now..

I'm "Left Behind."

[JerseygirlCT]

39. Boy, I'm sorry to hear that

any chance you can find a congregation that hasn't gone over to the dark side?

ECUSA is taking a lot of guff for their stand on Gene Robinson from the worldwide communion. I think those same right-wing elements busy here in CT are probably quite happily fomenting trouble all over the country.

[KoKo]

42. Dark Side or Way Out There...

Nothing inbetween...I'm in the middle...both sides left us..

[DeepModem Mom]

59. Same here, KoKo --

I recently moved to a very conservative Episcopal diocese, and have not found a church where I can sit through a service without getting angry (which pretty much defeats the purpose of being there). I never fully appreciated the progressive, intellectually oriented Episcopal churches, and there are some still, in cities I lived in before. How I miss them!

[NNadir]

38. I left the Episcopal church because I became an atheist.

It was a very long time ago, several decades.

It's good to remember because you can kind of mumble through funeral services and stuff, even Catholic ones.

[JerseygirlCT]

40. LOL, yeah that MIGHT be a good reason to leave

Although I'd bet you in any large-enough group, you might find a few in agreement! There seems to be room for just about any difference of opinion.

[KoKo]

41. Yes...Episcopalians can "span."

I understand. It still stays with me, too...all those years..Perfect Attendance at Sunday School. :D

Still I would like to be able to feel I belonged again. I learned from a radical Episcopal Minister that God has a "sense of humor and he said it could often be viewed as not making sense to us.

I think that Minister eventually left the church...but I was proud to be amonst those who went to Summer Church Camp and got to listen to him.

His views have stayed with me all these years. I wish the church had encouraged MORE like him...because the Evangelical/Fundies might not have gotten such a hold on average Americans if his views could have energized the Episcopal Church. There were others who had a "Message" in the Mainstream Protestant Churches who were drowned out. I attended a Methodist College and there were neat folks there who would have wrestled to the ground the fundie Falwell's and Robertsons in their day.

Sadly they too seem to have gone on to something else when their churches couldn't handle their "radical ideas."

:-( Oh...if only...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I simply wouldn't attend a parish that wasn't liberal

I'm currently in one that offers both high church liturgy and folk masses and has sister church relationships with parishes in Cuba, South Africa, and the West Bank. It does a lot of community service (feeding the hungry, providing clothing for job seekers, mentoring families who are transitioning off welfare, sponsoring refugees, sending teams to Habitat for Humanity builds, co-sponsoring a free medical/dental clinic with other large churches). We have an environmental committee and a GLBT social group and had Gene Robinson as a guest preacher (he preached on the Gospel for the day).

The priest at my former parish was a personal friend of Bishop Spong, who came as guest preacher and preached on the Old Testament lesson for the day (Jonah).

Unless you're in a small town, it may be possible to find a more congenial parish, even in the South. For a time while I lived in Oregon, I commuted 40 miles to attend the church of my choice.

[kestrel91316]

58. I have read some of Bishop Spong's books and HE ROCKS!