Clark on C-Span2 NOW (((Thread #2)))

[FlashHarry]

Continued from the original thread.

[FlashHarry]

1. Israel Palestine question now. N/T

[Cush]

2. High Level negotiator is needed

you have to be on the ground going back & forth

says he'd be involved personally

[FlashHarry]

3. Now they're questioning supporting Sharon

Could be interesting...

Hmm. Just said Israel has the right to attack preemptively. Not sure I agree...

[Selwynn]

4. I'd give a nut if he would say we must hold Israel to the same standards..

...as we demand of Palestinians, ie. an end to terrorism, which BOTH are engaged in.

Heh, I'd like to hear "stop funding to human rights abusers, starting with Israel and Sudi Arabia.

But I'd also like some one on one time with Deborah Messing, and I don't see that happening soon.

[Selwynn]

5. OH MY GOD CLARK

FUCK "PREMPTIVE" ATTACKS.

WHY WHY WHY WILL NO AMERICAN POLITICIAN STAND UP TO ISRAEL????????

:grr:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I think he will

where it will be effective and it is not in the press or in the
debates.

As president, he will stand up to them behind closed doors after
reading Bolton the riot act before firing him, wiht the rest of the
Hawks.

[Julien Sorel]

9. Political suicide, especially for a Dem.

[Selwynn]

14. Yeah... sigh... wipes tear....

I know it is. It just sucks.

[StephNW4Clark]

17. To make you feel better.

From his Rolling Stone article.

How do you grade the Bush administration's attempt to forge peace between Israel and the Palestinians?

WC: Right now we've got the worst possible regional dynamic, and we've got to change it. You cannot make peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. I don't care if the president of the United States sits there in Gaza and forces the two sides to talk -- they can't. The question of conflict is coming from outside. You've got to get people in the Middle East to say they don't want war. But unfortunately, we seem to want it.

What about the Palestinians?

The Palestinians have always been used by the Arabs as a weapon against Israel. The Palestinians are the most educated, most Westernized, most enterprising, least tribal of all the Middle Eastern groups. They were a force for the modernization and economic development in Middle Eastern countries. They were a source of instability and insecurity for the ruling elite. So they were pushed back and not given the rights of citizenship, not given the opportunity to be assimilated. All that's gotta be unwound. They're human beings like everyone else, and they've gotta be given a chance.

http://www.rollingstone.com/features/featuregen.asp?pid=1970

[bluefire2000]

10. I wish he'd emphasize fairness

on the I/P issue too, but maybe he learned from Dean that it's one of the 3rd rails of politics...

[FlashHarry]

6. Oh oh. Abortion question from anti-choicer.

Used the word 'murder.' Clark says it's a woman's decision.

[Selwynn]

8. Good answer...

Love it.

No apology, just BAM! I'm pro-choice.

Almost makes me forgive him for his Israel BULLSHIT.

[FlashHarry]

11. Yeah. I was pretty uncomfortable with that one, too.

[StephNW4Clark]

13. Israel

Look, no politician is going to say Israel needs the same treatment as the Palestinians. I don't know if that's residual guilt from creating the post-colonial mess known as the Middle East, or simple diplomatic expediency. But it's hard to say that in front of an audience. And I don't think anyone (except Kucinich) would say that.

[FlashHarry]

22. You're probably right. Dean got killed for even suggesting it.

And all he suggested was being more 'fair.' I'm neither pro- or anti-Israel; neither am I pro- or anti-Palestine.

Both sides are blameworthy in this. Palestinian's blow themselves up on busses and in restaurants, which is totally unacceptable. The Israelis fire rockets into apartment blocks, killing innocents, which is unacceptable. As Jack Black and Kyle Gass say... 'It's a hornet's nest!'

[Donna Zen]

67. His answer on NPR

was much better re: ME; however, with the latest bombing and the UN in flux, I would advise any candidate who intended to talk about something other than one comment made in Iowa, to keep the heat down.

Notice he did refer to bringing the "neighbors" into the discussion, which IMHO makes sense. So who would he pick to "work" the problem? That is, in addition to himself; and there is no doubt that he wants to do this one real bad. Q: where was Clark during the last round of Clinton's ME peace talks?

[Julien Sorel]

12. I get the feeling that he has the 'vision thing' down pat.

He knows what he wants this country to look like.

[FlashHarry]

15. Now the Iraq question: How do we get out?

Clark: Well, I wouldn't have gotten in.

[Cush]

16. On Iraq

Not an imminent threat, just a challenge for the UN.

The Kay Report backs up the facts that he wasn't a threat.

I've called for an independent commision to look at the intel. They used scare tactics

But we're they're and we can't leave, too risky. Put the UN in charge of the political situation. Gives the Iraqi's a voice.

Put the UN in charge of the Economy, let the Iraqi people help....don't let Haliburton take charge

[Julien Sorel]

18. He's absolutely killing them on this one.

'Iraqis, not Halliburton.'

[bluefire2000]

21. need to put Iraqi's in charge of rebulidng--not Halliburton! n/t

[rasputin1952]

25. Great Amswer!

He just gets better the further he goes.

[Renew Deal]

19. Some guy just came out on TV

[FlashHarry]

26. "people like me, who are lesbian or gay"

Hmm. I doubt he's a lesbian. :-) I liked Clark's unequivocal answer. Good for him.

[Cush]

20. Human rights

does that include homosexuals?

Clark: Yes

[DemCam]

23. His Iraq response

brought spontaneous tears...and I ain't kiddin'

Also the one word response to gay rights. Yes.

[Selwynn]

24. Some might disagree, but I LOVE the straight up "YES." answer

Just plain and simple "yes." to gay rights.

I love it.

[Cush]

27. Qualifications for Attorney General

Has to understand the Law, believes in Democracy and no hiddend agendas for Bush

Patriot Act: Legislative Review. I've tried reading it, but I can't.

What provisions have been used and for what? What were the results?

Not Patriot Act II without reviewing Patriot Act I

Put in on a bookmobile so people can actully read it. Let the people decide

[bluefire2000]

28. patriot act question

he's slammed it much harder than this before, me thinks.

[Cush]

29. On Drilling in Wildlife Parks

ANWR doesn't meet the requirements to give us energy independents.

[FlashHarry]

30. Came out forcibly on ANWR

Gets the loaded Iowa ethanol question. Says 'yes.' Duh.

On edit: He was against it. Duh--to me.

[FlashHarry]

31. Harkin always cranks up Zeppelin.

"When the Levee Breaks." Weird. What's the significance?

[rasputin1952]

32. Even though he was a little off tonight...

any one of those answers destroys the bushistas.

He is good, very good!

I love the short terse, yeses and no's.

Clark will take it away.

[Julien Sorel]

33. LOL. Led Zep's 'When the Levee Breaks.'

Who picked that music?

[stlsaxman]

45. maybe it was a wink to BartCop...

on of the biggest Zep fans around... heheheh

[Khephra]

69. That's the forum song

It's been played at each one of the Harkin forums, not just Clark's.

[Julien Sorel]

77. I think Iowa has lots of levees, so it's appropriate.

Iowa just seems a little stodgy for Zeppelin, though.

That song represents John Bonham at his pounding best -- it's one of my favorites for that reason. Zeppelin got me interested in rock from a strictly R&B/Soul upbringing.

[bluefire2000]

34. whoah - playing Led Zep as he walked off the stage

that was kinda cool

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

44. I noticed the song too, it's appropriate

Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

35. The General is just pure perfect

the way he says big things without getting
into little things that only upset people. But
I still think his suit is just a little
tiny bit too big.

[Julien Sorel]

37. I disagree.

I think the correct thing would have been to get into specifics, by saying things like 'You have the power' about 50 times, and then asking for campaign contributions.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

42. Well he did say

he was going to get strands of a Middle
East plan and bring people to Camp David or
someplace and get peace in the Middle East. That
sounded pretty good. What about the suit?

[Julien Sorel]

49. I think the suit is secondary to his huge

failure to remind people that they have the power to donate money to him. In fact, he could have told people that they have the power to donate money to him and put him in a better fitting suit. Or perhaps he could have found a local haberdasher and offered to empower him directly by asking for a suit. Those are the important specifics.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

55. Well OK but he just makes me feel happy

and that's what counts to most people, feeling
happy and warm when you think of your President
candidate. As far as money, they don't pay Generals
very much you know, but he is proud in a good way and
if he doesn't want to ask anybody for money to run
for President, so what, good for him. Who needs money
when you are as handsome and smart as General? I think
he could go all the way just on warm and happy without
money or even a suit or any of those sort of things.

[janekat]

36. What's great is that he gives such a positive message - uplifting

n/t

[Julien Sorel]

39. Yep. It's a concious counter, I think, to the Bush

mantra of fear. Americans are optimists at heart, and I think a positive message resonates.

[Renew Deal]

38. I think he read Frankens book.

Just said something about dealing with Hogs.

[Renew Deal]

40. We're gonna win this election because there are a lot of people that...

weren't lifetime democrats coming to this party.

[FlashHarry]

41. "Clark Republicans?"

Could be.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

47. Clark will be our Reagan

and as you would expect, our Reagan is a lot smarter.

:)


Kucinich 2004

[Kahuna]

52. That seems to be his strategy. His positions are truly...

liberal, but he's welcoming party outsiders into our alleged, "big tent." Funny it's only a "big tent" when Kerry, Lieb, Edwards and Dean get to set the rules for who's allowed in. "No republicans allowed," is not the message a national candidate should be giving. It may turn on the base but what about the indies and disenchanted republicans?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

62. Clark is doing well

He knows how to do the pro-America message right, and most Democrats just can't do it. He did a good job mentioning Halliburton in Iraq, and if he does a strong populist economic message, along with his pro-America, liberal foreign policy, he's a sure fire winner. I do think he has to ability to pick up a lot of Republican votes.

Clark would leave the Republican party with just the hard core religious right-wingers and the business class.

The way he talks about social services - through his experience with the military - is a real winner too.

[Julien Sorel]

43. He's kicking ass now, working the room.

I think he was a little off overall, but he picked up as time passed, and was pretty solid, and he demonstrated some things I haven't seen out of him before.

[Kahuna]

48. He was great during the Q&A. I agree though that ..

during his opening remarks he meandered too much.

[Kool Kitty]

46. I can't wait to see this when it re-airs at 10:30.

Sounds good. He does have a hopeful message.

[KittyWampus]

50. Good Message But Needs More Specifics

I agree he was somewhat "off"

I would like to hear some more specifics.

He mentioned creating jobs in alternative energy and environment....

if he was smart he'd start from talking about alternative energy and move on to job creation and national security.

[Kool Kitty]

51. Actually, I haven't seen it yet.

I don't get C-SPAN 2. I will watch it when it re-airs at 10:30, Oon C-SPAN 1.

[Julien Sorel]

53. I think he may have hit a wall.

He's been on a steep learning curve for a while now; sometimes you need to catch your breath and take assessment of where you are and what you are about. He's adding things, a sense of humor, a feel for the room, that I hadn't seen before; on the other hand, perhaps having to repeat the same thing over and over is becoming boring, as happens to bright people sometimes. His opening speech was the worst I'v seen him do; the Q & A was one of the best. Maybe he needs to re-work his stump speech to keep it interesting for himself.

[SWPAdem]

58. I thought he was a little bit off, too

But, the problems with the mike may have disrupted his rhythm a little and I suspect that he may be a little tired from all the campaigning. I agree with you that he may need a new stump speech...he is just too bright. Q&A was great...no quarter on abortion and ANWR.

For everyone that is concerned about the "pre-emptive" remark, under the UN charter, nations do have a right to pre-emptive attacks in self defense, under certain circumstances.

[charlie]

60. Hasn't found his rhythm yet

It's kind of skittery right now. He tends to rush a bit when he has a lot to say about something. When he's finished his answer or just pausing a bit to gather his thoughts, it creates a sort of abrupt hanging moment of silence. In a few weeks he'll have done enough of these things to have found his groove and will benefit from a more comfortable, measured pace.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

54. A Solid Outing

Best line: Putting Iraqis in charge, not Halliburton.

I missed the first 20 minutes, so I can't comment on that. GREAT job on the Q&A, though!

DTH

[Kahuna]

59. The first 20 mins weren't that great. Opening remarks...

vision... meandering. You've heard it all before.

[RandomUser]

66. Yeah

It was a shaky beginning, but then he hit his stride. He really needs to work on energizing the beginning. I know he can do it, because he did it during the DNC Fall Meeting over the weekend. He electrified the room, doing better than Dean and the others who spoke right before him. But this time around, it seems like he started out a bit shakier.

[union_maid]

56. We have to face facts

As much as we might be sure beyond doubt that he's the best candidate for the job, his suits and ties could stand improvement. On the plus side, his hair is fine. Hair is a weak point for a lot of the candidates.

I felt like he was a little off, too, but asked the other people in the room who are supporters but who don't try as hard to catch every word and they thought it was very good, very impressive, very persuasive.

[Kool Kitty]

57. I noticed that. too.

Beautiful suits, but they're too big. Maybe I could get a job as his dresser? ;-)

[eleny]

61. I liked his take on the Patriot Act

Opening it up for all Americans to see just what it is we're giving up and what we're getting in return. And not doing anything more with it until Americans understand exactly what it is and we have a say in it. The image of all that is opposite to the secretive * administration.

This response dovetailed well with the question about what sort of Attorney General he would select - he said it would be one without an agenda.

A one-two punch.

[catforclark2004]

63. His suit is Fine....he can't help it if he has large shoulders....

and a small waist!

He was a little off. But remember that what is endearing about him is that he is not a career politician...so we can't really judge him by how smooth he was in that slick politician smooth sort of way.

I guess the General has to wait till the general election before he starts talking about the fact that he'll get the "resources" we need to get America back moving again by cutting the defense budget....Can't make scary American too nervous just yet. He's got to standing next to the chimp when he hit them with that one.

Those Iowans seemed impressed...like they finally saw their next president!

The man does have presence!

[DemCam]

65. Swimmer's shoulders

[Kool Kitty]

87. Hey, I have no problem with his shoulders.

I just wanna be his dresser. I sure do agree about the "presence". He has got it. And I like the fact that he isn't too smooth. And I like his message.

[RandomUser]

64. I like the rationale too

Good approach to civil rights and the Patriot act. He's not saying everything done to guard against terrorism is bad. And he's not saying everything done in the name of stopping terrorism is good. He makes it a choice for the American people. It's up to us to look at what we're giving up, and what has been done with what we've given up, and then decide for ourselves how much of it we want to give up, and how much of it we want to take back.

[Forkboy]

68. Hope this is replayed later tonight

(After the Sox games naturally :) )

I like a lot of the answers I'm hearing in this post with the exception of the "pre-emptive" stuff,which I have serious problems with in just about any context.

[Kahuna]

70. No serious candidate, Dean included would say that..

Israel doesn't have a right to a pre-emptive strike. Kucinich is the only one who might say that. And for very reason, Dennis isn't considered a serious contender.

[Forkboy]

71. Doesn't mean it's the correct thing

:shrug:

I know you're right but it's very disappointing.

on edit-I'm also not just referring to Israel's use of a pre-emptive policy.I think it could be talked about as a bad idea in general terms without naming Israel specifically.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

72. I Think It's a Necessary Element of National Defense

If you have knowledge that, say, a nuclear-armed bomber is heading to your coast, you have the right to shoot it down before it arrives.

If you have knowledge that, say, a suicide bomber is penetrating your border to attack one of your civilian centers, you have the right to shoot him or her before he or she arrives.

That is the concept of pre-emptive defense, and I think it's a very reasonable one.

The issue becomes a bit blurred when the standards of proof aren't as high, and when the threat isn't as imminent. Israel's actions are more "gray" than the two scenarios I paint above.

That said, IMO it becomes a line-drawing issue, rather than a rejection of the overall concept of pre-emption. I think Clark's statements are right on, in that context.

DTH

[catforclark2004]

73. I would trust Clark to determine Pre-emptive.....Unlike Bunny Pants

It's all about who's making the decisions....I always thought we should have a rational, sane, intelligent, caring, & serious guy with his finger on the button........not one that stole an election, chokes on preztels and drops the dog.

[Forkboy]

81. lol

this is too true :)

[Forkboy]

78. That's why my first post said "just about any context"

because the scenarios you bring up are reasonable.I think my biggest problem has been the idea of Bush's pre-emptive strategery being so "bugger all" and seeing Israel take the same low standard.I think it's highly contentious and dangerous to embark down the path both countries seem to be choosing.

I still haven't seen the Clark speech or read a transcript,but I will try to over the next day or so.I will agree with you if the context he used it in was the one you describe.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

82. His Context Was Very General

Speaking to the concept of pre-emption and Israel in general, not specific to Israel's particular actions against terrorists.

DTH

[Forkboy]

84. ok...thanks DTH

:toast:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

86. Any Time, Bro

:-)

DTH

[Kahuna]

75. That's another debate. If you knew for certain that a foe...

was planning an attack, then yes, a pre-emptive war is justified.

[union_maid]

79. I think that's the military precision speaking

As he's said before, but maybe not everyone has heard, he makes a very definite distinction between pre-emptive strikes and preventative war. He, for instance, doesn't consider our invasion of Iraq to be pre-emptive, but rather preventative, and that he doesn't agree with. I'm certainly not going to attempt to wade into figuring out when and where Israel might justifiably use pre-emptive strikes, but I just want to point out that it doesn't necessarily mean the exact same thing to Clark that it might to some of us.

[Forkboy]

80. I agree

see my response to DTH.In the context he mentions I'm not adverse to striking first.

[Donna Zen]

74. 2 cents

I kept wondering if I thought this was a flat...hmmm?

First, I've heard these questions and answers before so it rather hard for me to judge.

He amended his ME answer, but the seeds of the response are still there: international diplomacy...leverage the debate...involvement at the hightest levels. All the anti-shrub positions. Also, the positions that he is committed to and that he is best suited to implement. If I could, I'd move Clark into the WH tomorrow and end the world's cycle of pain.

Which brings me to the suit. Whoever mentioned up thread the swimmers body, got it right. As a swim team parent, I watched as my eight-year old daughter grew some giant shoulders before she turned 18. Kinda' scared me, but damn she was dyn-o-mite in the water.

(Back to Clark) Personally, I'd rather see him in black turtleneck and tight jeans. Oooooooo! Oh_and the kid is no longer swimming three hours a day, so she returned to normal.

His education answer gets better and better. I'm surprised there was no agricultural questions...I figured he was primed for those.

So was he flat at times? I felt that there were other dynamics at work in that room. BTW, the people from Iowa should write Russert's questions and we'd all be better off.

[Kahuna]

76. ((Donna))..

I'm sooo happy that your daughter's shoulders returned to normal. :D

[Donna Zen]

88. LOL

Yeah...the shoulders are normal now, but it would still be the rare man who could catch her in the 50 free.

[Julien Sorel]

85. He answered the agriculture questions while he was working

room after the speech. I heard him say he was sorry he didn't get any ag questions during Q&A, so he was asking for them afterwards. I was paying attention to his tone and mannerisms more than content at that point, plus it was noisy, so I don't have much comment about his answers, but I didn't hear anything earth shattering one way or another.

[RandomUser]

89. It started a bit off

but then he picked up steam later. I guess some of us were disappointed he didn't use the same flair he did during the Fall Meeting over the weekend. He spoke after Dean and some others, but he fired up the room even better than Dean. That high charged energy approach wasn't evident in this one. But he did display a new sense of working the room and humor. He's showing signs of growth in different areas as a candidate -- he just needs to tie the improvements together. I wonder if the other posters are right about their speculation for why the townhall meeting started shaky -- that he's too smart for a repetitive word for word stump speech and needs to vary it to keep it fresh and interesting for himself. But once the meeting got into the Q & A section, he really shone.

[oasis]

83. I see an officer and a gentleman.

[DemCam]

90. Well-said.

And yet, his criticism of Bush is pointed and direct. He is very clear about why he is opposed to the current administration....but says it like a gentleman indeed.