On being poor

[MindPilot]

A friend emailed this to me and I thought it was somewhat approprate after the "what is rich?" thread from yesterday.


Being poor is knowing exactly how much
everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for
asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars
because they're what you can
afford, and then having the cars break down
on you, because there's not an
$800 car in America that's worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to
friends' houses but never has
friends over to yours.

Being poor is going to the restroom before
you get in the school lunch
line so your friends will be ahead of you and
won't hear you say "I get
free lunch" when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

Being poor is coming back to the car with
your children in the back seat,
clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just
bought and trying to think of a
way to make the kids understand that the box
has to last.

Being poor is wondering if your well-off
sibling is lying when he says he
doesn't mind when you ask for help.

Being poor is off-brand toys.

Being poor is a heater in only one room of
the house.

Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on
the coffee table when your friends are around.

Being poor is hoping your kids don't have a
growth spurt.

Being poor is stealing meat from the store,
frying it up before your mom
gets home and then telling her she doesn't
have make dinner tonight
because you're not hungry anyway.

Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

Being poor is not enough space for everyone
who lives with you.

Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear
off your supermarket shoes when
you run around the playground.

Being poor is your kid's school being the one
with the 15-year-old
textbooks and no air conditioning.

Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really
good deal.

Being poor is relying on people who don't
give a damn about you.

Being poor is an overnight shift under
florescent lights.

Being poor is finding the letter your mom
wrote to your dad, begging him
for the child support.

Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty
into the toilet.

Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp
from a stranger's trash.

Being poor is making lunch for your kid when
a cockroach skitters over the
bread, and you looking over to see if your
kid saw.

Being poor is believing a GED actually makes
a goddamned difference.

Being poor is people angry at you just for
walking around in the mall.

Being poor is not taking the job because you
can't find someone you trust
to watch your kids.

Being poor is the police busting into the
apartment right next to yours.

Being poor is not talking to that girl
because she'll probably just laugh
at your clothes.

Being poor is hoping you'll be invited for
dinner.

Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown
glass on it.

Being poor is people thinking they know
something about you by the way you
talk.

Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.

Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you
don't have any books in your home.

Being poor is six dollars short on the
utility bill and no way to close
the gap.

Being poor is crying when you drop the mac
and cheese on the floor.

Being poor is knowing you work as hard as
anyone, anywhere.

Being poor is people surprised to discover
you're not actually stupid.

Being poor is people surprised to discover
you're not actually lazy.

Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency
room with a sick child
asleep on your lap.

Being poor is never buying anything someone
else hasn't bought first.

Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen
instead of the 12 cent ramen
because that's two extra packages for every
dollar.

Being poor is having to live with choices you
didn't know you made when you were 14 years old.

Being poor is getting tired of people wanting
you to be grateful.

Being poor is knowing you're being judged.

Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1
coloring book from a community
center Santa.

Being poor is checking the coin return slot
of every soda machine you go by.

Being poor is deciding that it's all right to
base a relationship on shelter.

Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't
spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.

Being poor is hoping the register lady will
spot you the dime.

Being poor is feeling helpless when your
child makes the same mistakes you
did, and won't listen to you beg them against
doing so.

Being poor is a cough that doesn't go away.

Being poor is making sure you don't spill on
the couch, just in case you
have to give it back before the lease is up.

Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a
company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.

Being poor is four years of night classes for
an Associates of Art degree.

Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.

Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.

Being poor is people who have never been poor
wondering why you choose to be so.

Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop
being poor.

Being poor is seeing how few options you
have.

Being poor is running in place.

Being poor is people wondering why you didn't
leave.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I've been poor.

I am grateful I no longer am.

[MindPilot]

3. Yep -- as someone said "I've been rich and I've been poor....

and I prefer rich."

Personally I've never been rich, but I'm sure I would like it.

[dryan]

10. Very profound...

the funny thing is whether I have a good job (like now) or not or money in the bank (like now) I still do a lot of these things to save for a rainy day. Have an excellent salary but still buy my clothes at the Salvation Army and Goodwill.

[Coventina]

13. I think once you have been poor, it stays with you the rest of your life

Which in many ways is not an entirely negative thing.

Being frugal is a real way to minimize our impact on the planet.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. Absolutely

for example, my husband shaves his head for one reason: saves money.

[DIKB]

37. No one else

has cut my hair since 1998. It may be stubborn, but I take pride in it.

[tk2kewl]

61. My grandparents were always very frugal from having lived through the

depression. My parents behaved much the same way. I try to to, but sometimes it's tough with a wife who doesn't see that even with a good salary, you need to save a shitload to ensure a quality education for your kids and a healthy retirement for yourselves.

This is one of the main reasons I am considering moving to a country that still understands the concept of the social compact. I want to go someplace were our kids (if we are lucky enough to have them--still trying) can get a free or affordable college education and we can all get health care.

[JDPriestly]

100. How true.

I think they missed this one:

Being poor is saving used tinfoil, scratch paper, empty margarine cartons, worn out clothes and old shoes just in case.

[lildreamer316]

24. RIGHT there with you

It just never leaves you; like the Depression never left those who lived through it.My Grandma used to save the christmas wrapping paper every year like clockwork; even in the 90s. Know what I mean?

[ohio_liberal]

43. Yes

My grandma still saves bows and ribbons from presents.

[spuddonna]

64. So do I! :)

Hey, if they aren't smashed, why not!

[ohio_liberal]

69. Nothing at all, really....

It's a good thing to recycle them. I think my Grams just keeps them because she can't bear to throw them away. She never reuses them. But then, she never throws away anything.

[spuddonna]

74. That's another trait of Depression survivors - pack rat'ism!

The refusal to throw away things that aren't needed I think is a reaction to having little and needing to save and repair everthing you owned.

Neither my dad or father-in-law get the 'disposable' society we live in. They are always trying to repair these crappy electronics that weren't meant to be repaired and get so frustrated that they can't fix things anymore.

My mother and mother-in-law both save things like coffee cans, used aluminum foil (washed an reused), plastic baggies (washed and reused)... so much so, that they have piles and piles of these items.

This goes beyond simple recycling. It is an almost fear of throwing things away. Has anyone else seen this kind of behavior? :shrug:

[ohio_liberal]

75. Absolutely

My Grandma is a packrat for sure, and my family knows it all comes from living through the Depression. When she was a kid her family literally had nothing, and it didn't help when my Mom's Dad died and they were poor again for several years. My Gramps (her second husband) died about 15 years ago and she started saving everything she could find. She's got like 10 of those old electric perculating coffee pots sitting on her dining room table (found them at yard sales I guess), along with a bunch of other small appliances she doesn't need. She keeps newspapers and magazines forever, and my Mom has to force her now to throw them away. She still has all my Grandpa's clothes hanging in the closet. She keeps old calendars, for God's sake. It was so bad that there was just a wide path to walk through her house. She couldn't properly clean the house or even vacuum the floor. Grams fell down and broke her hip, and the whole family got together to do a major cleaning (with her blessing) so that she could come home from long-term care with a walker. She's never forgiven us for throwing all her 'stuff' away. I swear, we burned hundreds of pounds of newspapers, magazines, and paper bags from the grocery store and threw away a ton of just plain junk. She's on her way to filling it all up again. :(

Edited to add info about the clothing fetish too. My Grandma buys junky clothes at thrift stores, and it's more than she'd be able to wear in two lifetimes. I don't mean good used clothes, I'm talking old ratty looking stuff that nobody buys. Imagine running into your Grandma at the grocery store and she's wearing an old, faded from black to gray AC/DC t-shirt with holes in the back of it. And pink polyester double-knit pants.

Her younger sister (she's 75) is the same way with clothes from the thrift store, only she buys really gaudy things with the fake jewels sewed on. She has three closets full of the stuff.

[spuddonna]

76. Yeah, we did the 'clean out' a while ago, too...

At my parent's house... Got the big dumpster. I'd forgotten the newspapers until you mentioned it! She did the same thing! Couldn't throw them away till she'd read all of it - from front page to back. We had papers from the late 1980's in there and we did the 'forced cleaning' in the late 90's.

My mom was also very angry that we threw her 'stuff' out - her stuff was old newspapers, magazines, empty cans and jars, and old kid's clothing that was in bags that had been meant to go to Goodwill before it closed near their house.

I feel so bad because this 'stuff' was/is piled all through their house. My dad tries to throw some of it out but they get in huge fights about it - she feels he's criticizing her ability to take care of the house (she really can't because she's ill, but you can't tell her that!) so he does a little on the sly whenever he can.

Even though we did the cleaning once, we'll have to do it again. I've tried to resign myself to the fact that this is the way it will be...

My mother-in-law is the same way but she sticks her stuff in the attic! lol My fil won't let her keep it downstairs. So someday, we'll be doing the cleanings at both houses. :)

I love them all, but what can you do? They're adults and it's their life, their home. :)

[ohio_liberal]

79. If it isn't the huge piles of newspapers...

It's newspaper clippings! Piles and piles of them laying on every end table.

Yeah, I think we've resigned ourselves to the fact that it isn't going to change. I think we're just to the point that we try to keep the mess somewhat manageable. It's a bloody fire hazard though and it worries me. And it's also so distressing that she'll spend a lot of money on junk but refuses to buy things for comfort like air conditioning, an efficient furnace, or a decent, safe car. I guess we all just have to deal with it the best ways possible.

[spuddonna]

82. Yeah, the fire hazard is what worries me the most, too...

And my mom is a smoker! :(

You feel bad that they won't buy nice stuff for themselves, yet they'll spend about the same on junk. It makes you feel like a parent to your parent!

Hey, it is just good to know that my family isn't the only one going through this... :pals:

[ohio_liberal]

91. I've been worried that my elders are regressing

I noticed the more that some of my elderly relatives get the more they become almost--and this is maybe not the nicest way to put it-- childlike. It's not easy to cope with the fact that someone who used to change your diapers needs YOUR help now. It happens to most of us, I suppose. It is good to know that we aren't the only ones dealing with the same issues. :pals:<--back atcha :)

[ladylibertee]

112. WOW....You know what ? I think I'm poor. I wasn't too sure untill I saw

THIS :

Being poor is knowing exactly how much
everything costs.

[raccoon]

84. Yes, I've seen it.

My mother and several of her brothers were all like that.

They were Depression-era kids, but their family would've been poor even if there had been no Depression. They had a very small farm.

That sort of thing can become like a compulsion.

I used to be a pack rat, but out of necessity I had to change. Most of my life I haven't had space to store all kinds of stuff.

[spuddonna]

92. Yeah, we've moved so often, it's broken me of my tendency to be one...

No room, and when you move alot, you tend to look at things like, "Can I put that in a truck easily?" :)

[StellaBlue]

46. I know many people like that

Some of them are also hoarders... like they are afraid it's going to be taken away... and sometimes they seem to feel like because they had to do without so long, they are entitled to all the stuff they can get their hands on... those are the ones who are addicted HSN, though. haha

HAVING to live like that is something no one in America should have to experience. But some of those habits, if done by everyone, would give the world a much better chance of survival.

For the record, yes, I have been poor; only I was a child and didn't really realize it. It's only now, looking back at the photo of me with a mullet, shoeless, that I realize. My mother, like so many, sacrificed everything for me.

[pepperlove]

2. Copied and shared elsewhere

thanks....

I fit into some of that myself...

[NaturalHigh]

4. Excellent (but sad) post.

Nominated.

[Kralizec]

5. That's a pretty cynical view. I agree that this is what has become

the description of a "poor" person in our country. But I have no plans to join the ranks of the well paid, for I know that that is the path that leads only to more want. I am content to stay in poverty the rest of my life.

However, this isn't to say that many "poor" people like you described suffer every day in our country. But some of the best people, no, the best people I have ever met have been poor. In my experience, the more money a person has, the more disconnected they are from reality.

Peace.

edit**changed "our world" to "our country" in the first line.

[manic expression]

88. that is the truest thing I've heard in a long time

There's something...just different about people who live in poorer places than people who are richer. I think the part about being close to reality, being close to life, not being dependent on material possesions (although they see the worth in them).

I think it really comes down to this: everyone is really the same in the end, but people who are exposed to superficial wealth lose sight on what matters; people who live amidst life find and know that meaning. Perhaps they (not just the poor, but others as well) are closer or even more true to their world (instead of sitting in big houses and drowning in that unnecessary wealth), I cannot put my finger on it.

I cannot adequately explain it, but I've seen and felt this from inner cities and rural areas in the US to those in the 3rd world.

[Mistress Quickly]

6. A lot of these I am familiar with

but this one especially:

Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear
off your supermarket shoes when
you run around the playground.

[DIKB]

39. I've been there before.

Payless shoe stores were a luxury. To this day, I'm not sure I ever owned any Reeboks or Nikes, I JUST realized that.

[Mistress Quickly]

81. I got my first pair of Nikes

when I was, oh, 33. They were on clearance. I won't pair the asking price for them though, that IS a waste of money.

I use to oh so badly want a pair of (?)Gas shoes (they left the imprint from the bottom of your shoe), and mocassin lace-up boots. Oh well, got the boots when I went to college and bartended!

[UncleSepp]

116. Talking shoes.

That one got me too. The way that the sole of a shoe goes flap-flap-flap like a babbling mouth.

[Coventina]

7. I grew up poor, and many of those hit home. But I'm going to argue one of

them.

The one about getting the A.A. degree. I don't like it being presented with the others as a negative thing. An A.A. degree is a great achievement, and can make a real, positive change in a person's life. If it takes four years of night classes, it is time and effort well spent.

I had to work my way through college and it took me three years to get my A.A. I am currently working on my Master's. I wouldn't be doing that if I hadn't struggled through that first degree.

[pepperlove]

11. I have to agree

my daughter will finish in May with a double AA degree (Art and English) and we are quite proud of hat accomplishment.

[MindPilot]

14. Agreed on this one

I used to teach auto shop at community college level. I've seen first hand people go from literally living on the streets to decent regular incomes because of the programs we offered.

Same goes for the GED. It ain't much but it's light years ahead of nothing,

[CitrusLib]

17. Agreed. I work in an industry where degrees are rare if you aren't mgmt.

An employee getting their A.A. degree is looked on as quite an accomplishment and our educational reimbursement program is designed so they can do just that.

[pepperlove]

30. Yes indeed

here as well...they don;t ask what kind of degree, but do you HAVE a degree and YES means a green light! AA is great!

[Arkansas Granny]

18. I'm going to agree with you on this one.

Divorced with four children, I went to night classes and earned my Associates Degree in Accounting. Even at that, and working every day, we were borderline poverty. A lot of people just don't realize what is like to be among the working poor.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. Good point

nothing shabby about an AA. In Florida, if you have an AA you are automatically admitted to all state universities.

[raccoon]

85. And some people with a 2-year degree from a community college

make more than some people with 4 year degrees from a far more prestigious school.

[Biased Liberal Media]

89. I agree, I'm working on mine right now

I'm almost 27 and it took me forever to finally go back to school. I'm proud of my accomplishments, and it's better than this high school diploma that does absolutely nothing for me.

[expatriate]

8. Yes, been there - all of it.

I can add a few.

Being poor is having to wear a skirt made from a $1 remnant to church - and being snubbed by the good Christians because of it.

Being poor is being told that if you can't afford medical care for your child, you should give him up for adoption.

Being poor is being sent to sit in the broken orange plastic chairs where the Medicaid patients sit in the doctor's waiting room, while the "real" patients wait on the upholstered chairs and sofas.

Being poor is your child being told he can't play with the neighbor's kids because "he probably has head lice".

Being poor is owning one skirt, one pair of sandals, and two t-shirts - and no other clothing, including underwear.

I had to leave America to stop being poor, and I'm sure glad I'm not poor any more.

[Sabriel]

33. Being poor is sending your child to school sick

Throwing up, temperature, miserable.

[orion9941]

9. I was poor too...

I went from making a very comfortable living to loosing my job because it was shipped to India. I went from living in a very nice suburb to living in the inner city. I had my own eyes opened to a very painful way of life. Luckily I am no longer in that situation, but having been there I can say it is a hopeless hell and that everything mentioned in the above about it is correct.

[mondo joe]

12. I grew up poor in a very poor neighborhood.

Some of what's written here is true. Some not.

[pepperlove]

15. Share

what is "not"? (it may well BE for some, ya know)

[MadHound]

16. Great post friend, brings back a number of bad memories, but thanks

Having been poor, I found this to be very moving, and I can relate to it all too well. I was poor and homeless for a couple of years a quarter century ago, and many many of the things that you posted brought back many memories, most of them bad. But that is OK, for people need to realize just what poverty is.

My wife, love her lots, never had to experience such poverty as I did, and wonders how I can remain so sanquine concerning many matters that just drive her nuts. I tell her that having been poor and homeless, I just don't sweat the small stuff. Poverty tests a person, plumbs the depths of their souls in a way that few other situations can. I'm grateful that after years of hard work and effort, I can now say that I'm not poor, I'm middle class. But I remember, and give back what I can, so that others can also rise above poverty and despair.

While poverty and homelessness are a horrible place to be, in many ways I think that this country would be a better place if more people experienced it, even for a short while. It would force them to change their attitudes and outlook, make them more sympathetic and empathetic for the plight of others, not just the poor, but everybody.

[Seansky]

19. It would be of great help if you could send this as ltr. to editors

across the country.

Hope I don't offend with my comment. This is a reality that angers me and the anger is go great that it makes me want to ignore it because of a tremendous sense of helplessness (wish I could solve that problem).

When I volunteer at the local health center (with funds cuts so dipped that when you walk into some rooms you wonder how they can call it a hospital and you pray that if something happens to you, you are awake enough to tell the emergency paramedic not to take you there) the hardest thing is to see the fathers w/o insurance desperate to have someone help their very sick infant, knowing everything is so screwed up that outraged fear is all you can read in their faces.

Getting your description in as many venues might get some people off their butts...

[Seansky]

21. Sorry to add something else,

When I answered yesterday Rich=Peace of Mind, I really meant it. Peace of Mind means not having to be desperate about daily survival, or having enough time to do the things you enjoy (whatever minimum amount of money that allows for that to happen, that's what I consider being rich)

[lildreamer316]

26. Not worrying where the light bill money is coming from.

I have kinda a weird situation. I bucked my parents and was on my own at 18 with no money support (duh) until my mother passed(last year); leaving me well off investment- and house-wise. However; I don't have day-to-day money because it is all invested & I can't take it out without huge penalty. Make sense?

[Seansky]

38. Makes sense.

One can only wish that when we dare to call ourselves "civilized", we could do it based on how much our "civilized societies" had evolved away from the animal rules of survival.

Then again, I heard societies have been intelligently designed.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I believe I understand about your lack of peace of mind. We all face it one way or another one, I think.

[Arkansas Granny]

20. Great post. Everyone should read.

[halobeam]

22. I can relate.

I'd like to change one thing though. If you are poor, you usually don't have leased furniture. You don't have credit to lease.

Being poor is making sure you don't spill on
the couch, just in case you
have to give it back before the lease is up.

My version:

Being poor is blending the spill on the couch to match the one next to it, and if you can't... you don't worry, as long as you have dinner that night, things could be worse.

Yep, it's sad and all too real for too many people. My personal experience: Didn't grow up poor, had what I needed and a little extra, got sick, lost everything. Truthfully, I took advantage of certain things I had when growing up and the humbling experience I had as of these past 6 years gave me a stronger and more appreciative character.

I hope to get out of this, don't know if I will, but I appreciate ALL the little things. Paper towels are a luxury IMO. I LOVE them! Who would have thought! Meat/fish for dinner? Wowza.

Poorer people get it. Life is about people and having what you NEED to live. Everything else is freakin' GRAVY.

[MsAnthropy]

23. Keeping this kicked

I know what it feels like

[txaslftist]

25. The Law, in its majestic equality,

forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets adn to steal bread.
-ANATOLE FRANCE.

[LizMoonstar]

27. I consider myself very lucky

That would have been me after I had to quit my first job (an internship) after college due to health problems (as in, if I called in sick or fell asleep at my desk much more, I'd get fired, and I didn't want to chance it). Thankfully my loved ones are all middle-class, and helped me so I was merely broke rather than poor.

However, because of this, I still have a lot of guilt knowing that I have food to eat and shelter to live in and a good job, because, honestly, I don't deserve it.

BnR tells me that at my level of life, I'm not part of the problem, and he knows the most about political economics out of everyone I know, but it doesn't always help.

I try to give back, but it never feels like enough; reading things like this makes me think I should just kill myself so there'd be one less person depriving the poor of opportunities by that person's very existence.

Any thoughts on how to deal with middle-class (by upbringing - I currently sit at probably upper working-class simply by virtue of being a 'professional') guilt?

[Coventina]

34. No need to feel suicidal guilt! Please! You won't help the poor that way

Just being aware of the problem puts you ahead of most of the people in your class. If there is just one more person who is sensitive, and doesn't made snap judgements about people in poverty, that is a good thing.

Probably the best thing you can do, individually, is to simply volunteer your time.
Also, as a professional, see what you can do about getting poor people hired into your organization.

[LizMoonstar]

52. It's hard when you think you're a waste of space and resources.

The therapist tries to help me, but then i remember that even going to her is a waste of resources that could be helping someone more deserving. She tells me that everyone is deserving by virtue of being born, and that some people are just getting screwed, so they need our help, but that that doesn't mean I am in the wrong for having food and shelter (and small luxuries like new $5 work shoes from Walmart). But it's hard to believe her for long when I read things like this.

BnR makes sure I eat, but I seriously consider seeing how long I could go without food before getting royally sick, to see if I could stop being so selfish. But here I am, sitting in my nice office, wearing nice work clothes, eating Cheerios, fucking things up once again.


Son of a bitch. Damn it, I took my meds today. Why is this happening?

[Coventina]

56. Sending peaceful vibes and hugs your way....

:hug:

I've been in therapy myself for depression. I know it is a struggle.

I still struggle with depression at times, I've learned to recognize the symptoms and catch myself before it spins out of control. It takes time, and work. But you will get there. Because you are strong. You are a good person.

I'm proud of you for taking your meds and continuing your therapy.
It is the most important thing for you to do right now. It is ok for you to put your needs first.

:hug:

[LizMoonstar]

59. Thank you.

I'm a bit of an attention whore about it, I know, but I feel better getting it out, and I don't get to go see Dr. Joan for another few weeks.

[lukasahero]

63. Just because someone is poor and you're "not" doesn't make them any more

deserving than you are. Your therapist is right - you are as deserving as they are. You are "a child of the universe (no less than the moon and the stars)" just as they are and "have a right to be here".

It sounds like you are doing what you can to help them. If only more people who have even more than you would do the same.

Now, as others have addressed your depression, let me address your interest in starving yourself. Don't do it. You will not only get sick now but you will ruin your health for years to come. If you have to, look at it this way - you will have to spend more valuable resources trying to restore or maintain your health in the future if you try this now that could otherwise be going to the poor. Eating is NOT being selfish!

[LizMoonstar]

67. It helps a lot to know that radical DUers support me not dying :)

There's a smilie there, but unfortunately, I'm not being flippant. It really does make a difference knowing that people whose cause I respect a) think I'm not being selfish for living, and b) want me to stick around. I'm not so much an activist type, but I really value the community here, even when it frustrates me.

Thank you everyone, for being here! ~hugs DU~

[lukasahero]

71. It's ok sweetie

I've been there too. I suspect a whole bunch of us DUer's have dealt with depression at one time or other. There's even a Mental Health Support Group here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=276 if you need to talk things through with other folks who understand.

:hug:

[pitohui]

50. guilt is a symptom of depression

i think you need to talk to yr doctor, frankly

killing yrself will not help anyone, it harms you, it harms yr family, suicide is contagious, it increases the chance that yr own younger relatives & friends will also kill themselves or abuse drugs, which in turn either causes them to be dead or in poverty

guilt is a waste of time

unless you rape small children & insert firecrackers up frog butts, odds are very good that you DO deserve having food to eat, shelter to live in, a good job

HONESTLY WE ALL DESERVE THAT -- as a minimum!

ideal would be a world where it's recognized that all good ppl also deserve health care, vacation time, retirement time, interesting work or robots to do the mindless pointless work, but now i'm dreaming

we ALL deserve better, you know

guilt is silly & sometimes an illness

get rid of it

DREAM BIGGER

[LizMoonstar]

54. yeah, see above - i'm in treatment, but it only helps so much.

[Dilligent]

68. Suicide= A permanent solution to a temporary situation

I too am a depressive. Been hospitalized,on meds on & off, etc. One thing I have learned to do when things get really bad is think " I can always kill myself". This sort of puts things in perspective " like nah it ain't that bad." Something else that has gotten rid of those thoughts is life itself.You have no idea where you'll be 5yrs from now. Or even a day or hour. Things can change so rapidly in life I am too curious not to hang around and see what is coming next.

[LizMoonstar]

73. Yeah, I know I won't do it. It's just scary that it's "in there".

[MindPilot]

86. Aww jeez just what we need, one less dem vote...

Seriously I know depression; been there before will probably be there again. The thing that always has stopped me from doing myself in is: What if I fuck it up? How embarrassing would that be? When the newspaper headline reads "Area man shoots self in head, misses" and then I'm a quad so I can't even finish the job. Everywhere I go people point and laugh at the guy who can't aim at point blank range. Those dark thoughts are "in there" for most of us; the trick is don't let them become actions. I do that by laughing at them.

So you're OK, you're here, you have all your parts and most of your mind. Enjoy what you have, share what you can, keep good company and you'll be fine. Trust me. :D

[Saphire]

29. I've been there..being broke means no money at all..not just low on cash.

[pepperlove]

31. Another amen

:kick:

[spuddonna]

70. Being broke means...

Learning 'creative money management techniques' that would make Enron execs sit up and take notice. Such as, if you have a sick family member, in most states they can't shut your phone service off even if you are waaay late on payments (you may need 911), so you always pay the phone bill last. (In some states this works with the electric bill, too, if a family member is on any electric life-saving devices.)

Or if you have a zero balance in your bank account till payday, you do things like mix up your payment stubs and checks so that you've technically 'sent in the payment on time' but they of course can't cash it. (This actually worked one time for my mom!) I doubt it would now... :(

The 'being broke means hoping the toothache goes away' really made my mouth hurt... I remember being little and the best dental care we got was one year when my dad was on strike, and we became eligible for state dental checkups...

I remember being on food stamps as a kid and having people stare at your grocery cart at the checkout, disapproving of anything they didn't think you 'needed' that they might be paying for...

[In Truth We Trust]

32. Kick for Truth- It is a god damned crime for such conditions to exist when

there is so much greed and wealth by so few in power. Revolution NOW!

[meganmonkey]

35. If I weren't at work

I would be weeping right now.

Instead of just a couple trickling tears.

:cry:

By most US definitions I am poor, but I work in hunger relief. So I have seen what poor really is. I am not poor, although I will never make much money, it is a choice I have made. But the people I work for don't have a choice, and this poem is exactly why I do what I do.

Thank you for posting.

[Ikonoklast]

36. I guess I never thought about it, but

cardboard inside of your shoes because of the holes in the sole. Going to Goodwill or the Salvation Army to buy your "new" school clothes.

Eating mac and cheese for a whole week because that's all there is to eat.

And being thankful you got that.

Having your friends talk about what was on the tv last night and you don't have a clue as to what they are talking about because you don't have one.

But we all loved each other and never considered ourselves "poor". A lot of working-class people in my old neighborhood were all just the same as we were; the people in India and Africa were "poor" and we would give an extra dollar on Sunday for them, because they had NOTHING.

I still shop for clothes at the nearby Salvation Army, though, funny enough my son got me to go there with him. He is naturally frugal, just like the rest of my kids, and loves finding new or nearly new clothing for a fraction of the original retail price.

[DIKB]

40. You brought tears to my eyes.

"But we all loved each other and never considered ourselves "poor". A lot of working-class people in my old neighborhood were all just the same as we were; the people in India and Africa were "poor" and we would give an extra dollar on Sunday for them, because they had NOTHING."

Reminded me of when I was a kid. Collecting for UNICEF. Having a mom, a dad, 2 brothers, and one income was more than most did, and we donated to help others. I think it's BECAUSE of our upbringing that we are liberals. People who blame the poor, and say it's a choice grow up to be the conservatives of tomorrow.

[Iktomiwicasa]

47. Being poor.....

...is growing up on the Pine Ridge reservation.

[Ikonoklast]

51. My father has donated to those at Pine Ridge for many years

It is a sad commentary that such places exist in this country, let alone the rest of the world. If you grew up there, I can't imagine how difficult your life was. Probably the poorest place in all the USA.

[Iktomiwicasa]

57. Shannon county

South Dakota ( Pine Ridge) is the poorest county in the US. Ikon, thanks to your father, no doubt he means well....but the solution is not donations, government programs or government funding. The real long term solution is restoring and honoring treaty obligations and land titles, something that Democrats as well as republicans have been unwilling to do.

[Ikonoklast]

72. Truer words were never spoken

It is a national shame the way our government has treated the indigenous population of this country. It is always about land, gold, and greed.


As an aside:

At the last place that I drove for, I worked nights. Some of the guys would have a cup of coffee in the morning before we left for home. We were listening to NPR and were having a discussion about immigration and how it affected jobs, the economy, etc. Some of us were all for it, some against. Black, some white, some Hispanic, except for one driver, Ghost, an Ojibwa. He had just come into the shop and was washing up, listening to what was being said. He got a cup of coffee, sat down, and said to us all, "As far as I'm concerned, all you assholes are immigrants and I sure wish you'd go back to where you came from and leave my country alone."

I just about fell out of my chair laughing so hard along with everybody else, but we all knew he was right.

He would talk sometimes about growing up on the reservation in Wisconsin, and how little the people had. It was a shame for him because he loved the land, but there was no work to speak of there and poverty was the norm.

[UncleSepp]

117. had a weird moment re: Goodwill clothes the other day

I was feeling good, wearing my new shoes (small size men's dress shoes in great condition, Goodwill) a pair of vintage wool pants (Value Village) and a sweater just the same color as the pants (Goodwill Outlet, $1.99! And only one small hole!). I put on my jacket (vintage houndstooth wool, another thrift store) and realized that in the pocket of the jacket was a silver cigar tube I bought from Tiffany's to keep Tampax in while I'm in menswear.

It was like a needle scratched across the record playing in my head. WTF am I doing with something from Tiffany's? I don't even shop in malls! It's a big deal to get new pants and undershirts at Fred Meyer (kinda like a Super Walmart). I like the good deals, but mostly, I am comfortable shopping in Goodwill and Value Village. Last week I was in a Nordstrom's department store, and every time a sales person came up to say "Can I help you?" I heard "Keep your dirty hands off the expensive clothes". I almost couldn't believe it that a salesperson in the Tiffany's store even talked to me. I half expected the security to escort me out of the store.

[StellaBlue]

42. This is excellent

Have you sent it to every member of Congress and the whole * administration?

[Roxy66]

44. Wow, I relate to so many of those

Very sad indeed

[ohio_liberal]

45. Oh God

This is making me cry.

I've been poor. I can relate to most of it. I'm still poor, just not *as* poor as we used to be.

[pitohui]

48. dupe

we're going in circles here, as this exact post word for word was already posted here, not just on DU but i'm pretty sure on the gd forum

if the material is not original, please re-consider posting it in its entirety, we've already seen it, some of us many many times

& if you got it in an email, that goes double

we all get email, we don't need any more

[MindPilot]

87. Bloody awful sorry to have taken up so much of your precious time

by *forcing* you to read a duplicate post.

Apparently--judging by the number of replies--there are many others who hadn't seen it before either.

If it is something you have seen before, why do you feel compelled to post a snarky comment? Just continue to be smug in your superior knowledge of DU's content and move along. I don't appreciate the scolding.

[Jo March]

109. MindPilot, I haven't seen this before

Thanks for posting it. There are so many posts on DU that the good ones tend to get missed.

I cried at this but I appreciated you posting it. It reminds me why I fight for social programs for poor children.

:hug: to you.

[Jo March]

49. Oh my God - I am crying now - this was me growing up

The shame of being poor when it's not your fault because your dad would rather drink his paycheck (when there is one) than buy food.

Poor is having your sister twist her ankle playing at school and having the school insurance pay your mom $45 and knowing that it won't be spent on taking her to the doctor but on groceries and a partial payment on the light bill.

Being poor is sitting in 7th grade and not being able to concentrate because you are so hungry because dinner was off-brand mac-n-cheese and there wasn't breakfast.

I am sobbing. God help us all - all of the poor and the overlooked.

[ohio_liberal]

58. Don't I know it

My Mom worked 60 hours a week in 70's when women didn't get anywhere close to men in salaries (yeah I know there is still a discrepancy but it was worse then). My Dad left, married a wealthy woman, abandoned us and refused to pay court-ordered child support. His new kids wanted for nothing. We had nothing. We had a babysitter that let my mom slide all the time on paying her. My Mom just couldn't afford it.

The shame, it was unbearable. If we were lucky we got 2 new pairs of pants each school year. I got made fun of because every other kid was wearing new Nike's and I wore old ratty shoes. I was lucky if I got a haircut once a year and I only remember seeing a dentist three times before I was old enough to pay my own bills. The only time I saw a doctor was when I had to go to the emergency room. I remember doing laundry and housework at 8 years old because there was no one else to do it. I remember having an ulcer when I was 12. Stress? Poor diet? Probably both.

I remember not bringing friends over to play because the carpet was old and worn and most of the time nobody had the energy or wherewithall to clean the house properly and I was embarrassed. I remember having a shower gerry-rigged with vice grips so that you could turn the cold water on and off.

I could go on and on for hours and still not completely describe how we lived...

[Jo March]

108. Are you my sibling?? I had an ulcer at 12, too!

I also remember standing on a chair to reach the sink so I could wash dishes. I remember cooking dinner at 11 years old and being so tired that I dropped a frying pan in the floor and burnt the crappy linoleum. I remember crying at night because I was so tired and so hungry.

We never had friends over because we had a wood stove and no air conditioning. We didn't have insulation in the walls - just paneling nailed to the studs and then the outside siding on the house.

We hardly ever went to the dentist. My teeth are screwed up because of drinking well water with no flouride and eating a poor diet.

I remember the shame and the gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach. Lying - "Oh, I'm not hungry."

You never forget it, do you? I still can't handle the bills because dealing with money makes me almost physically ill. Mr. Arnheim has to pay the bills because I get panic attacks when I do it. I have to have the cabinets stocked completely or I get nervous.

The shame and the fear - I remember it like it was yesterday.

[Misunderestimator]

53. Great post.

[Skidmore]

55. We were dirt poor when I was a kid, and it felt

like a trap.

We only got 1 pair of shoes a year--at the beginning of the school year. God help if you hit a growth spurt and your feet grew during the year while the next older sib stayed in the same size. I still have problems with my feet from wearing shoes that were too small.

We got surplus commodities in the 60s and lived on canned ham and navy beans and cornbread for months on end. Otherwise, we planted a big garden and weeded like crazy all summer. Momma canned everything, and I still hate snapping beans--but I do it now to save money on winter grocery bills.

Mom made all our clothing and patched those that became worn. I got my first ready-made dress when I was sixteen--I bought it with money I saved from babysitting. It cost $16, and I kept it for years after I was able to wear it. It was the first thing I ever owned that was of consequence.

We lived in the country and aside from a couple of old toys and a baseball and bat, we ran the fields and pastures. In the summertime, we lived in the trees. It was cool up there and the treeworld was magical and free. I still love trees, solid anchors to the earth and airy whispers to the heavens that they are.

In winter, our old house was drafty. When I was small, we had a pot belly stove in the kitchen that burned coal. We had an outhouse so the slop bucket was brought in for night time. In summer, you had to go in the dark down the path, and we would hold ourselves till it hurt to avoid going to the outhouse at night. We did not have a hot water heater and boiled all our water for washing and rinsing dishes and taking baths. Baths were taken in a galvanized tub in the kitchen by the stove. We bathed once a week and in shifts, from the youngest to the oldest, with 2-3 little people sharing the tub. Laundry was done with a wringer washer and the water was boiled to pour into the washer, while that same galvanized tub we bathed in served the double duty of the rinse basin for clothing after they came out of the washer.

We had no automobile, and many were the times I rode my bicycle into town to buy bread, milk, and a few items to bring home with the list given to me. I walked that gravel road into town, too. Still could walk it with my eyes closed today.

I did escape that trap, and we live with a little security, able to survive several months without employment, if that happens. My way out was to read voraciously, and to study. Momma instilled in us the importance of knowing how to read and write as a way to get out of poverty. Our rural school did not have the involved curriculum that urban schools have, but they did well by us. If you were willing to learn to read and write and to acquire your math skills, they would serve you well. Most importantly, they taught us how to learn and to apply what we learned. We need to support education for it is the key to success and a free society. Closed mind and closed institutions are causing the death of our democracy and doors to upward social mobility are slamming shut all over the place.

There is no shame in poverty, but there is shame in that it is allowed to exist.

[Gormy Cuss]

114. Surplus food. Ahh, the memories.

My mother took great pride in creating recipes to use up every bit of that USDA brand food, no matter how bizarre the allotment. Rolled wheat flakes were the weirdest product I recall. We ate that as hot cereal with USDA prunes or raisins and USDA corn syrup as sweetener. Those weren't the days.

I was raised with similar expectations: do your best in school, graduate, and do your best at your job, and you'll do OK. There wasn't even a suggestion that we were expected to go to college because that was for rich kids. My mother wouldn't believe that I could afford to go until I showed her the hefty scholarship package, much of it government backed grants and loans. Education is the key to social mobility, and it starts with well funded public education.

[hippiechick]

60. Spot on.

Sad to say that so many Americans know this, only too well.

[TheProphetess]

62. Thank you for posting this

It helps us all take a moment for self-reflection.

[bertha katzenengel]

65. "having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14

years old" -- Jesus Christ . . . some things you just don't realize until they are in plain black & white right in front of your face.

I don't know how to describe my reaction to this list, so I'll just leave it alone.

[wellstone_democrat]

101. Oh boy, that is so true

I didn't expect the reaction I had to things I had managed to forget. But, this one, more about a sister than about me physically hurt: all those "experts" on the poor talking about "bad decisions"---what they really should say is that those who are poor (or unlucky) are stuck with the bad decisions they make as little more than children because there is no money to pad the sharp edges. All 14 year olds make bad decisions, some though have the resources not to pay for them for the next 50 years.

[andyhappy]

66. I've been broke but not poor

I know what its like to not have very much money what with hoarding food and all, but it was always temporary. I thought I pulled myself out of it...but I dont think I was ever really there.

makes John Edwards with his 2 Americas speech sound prophetic.

damn...

[OhioChick]

77. Very good post n/t

[stickdog]

78. Being poor is losing your car when it gets towed or breaks down.

Being poor is being ripped off by rent-to-own stores.

Being poor is giving a 5% cut of every check you cash to a check cashing service.

Being poor is paying a $30 penalty because your bank account cannot cover the monthly fees, then not being allowed to have any bank account for a year because you were placed on a blacklist.

[ohio_liberal]

83. Amen....

My car just broke down, local gas station can't figure out what's wrong with it. I can't afford to take it to a dealership. I'm so fucked. :(

[mopaul]

80. never going to movies, or other entertainments

[Biased Liberal Media]

90. I can relate to parts of this...well written, might I add?

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars
because they're what you can
afford, and then having the cars break down
on you, because there's not an
$800 car in America that's worth a damn.


Sounds very familiar.

We have nothing to complain about now, but we're still technically in the "poverty line". However, we have come a long way, and I'm proud of that.

[krkaufman]

93. Being poor is watching people who ain't poor...

... vote-up a DU post on what it's like to be poor.

[mcscajun]

97. Growing up poor means you never forget it...

...growing up George Bush means you've never known it.

[krkaufman]

107. Yep, and can't remotely relate or empathize.

Which, if you think about it, is probably why Clinton came across as so much more empathetic.

[Barbra Whiner]

94. Being Poor & Other States of Mind

Being Poor (Tall, Fat, Stupid, Happy, Indulgent, Loving,
Grateful, Rich, Clumsey, and any other descriptive that
assigns a relative value to a human condition is:

Mostly the result of your willingness to acknowledge a label
pinned on you by someone else.

Chin up.  You got a computer.

[mcscajun]

96. Poor is not a state of mind...

Poor is as fuckin' real as it gets.

When the walls of your apartment are running with condensation and the windows are frozen...
When six people sleep in a one-bedroom railroad flat and you have to share a blanket not quite big enough for two...
When you try never to let anyone see the bottoms of your shoes, even When kneeling at the Communion rail, so they won't see the cardboard soles through the holes in each shoe...
When you have to count your cash three times against what's in your cart at the supermarket to make sure you won't be embarrassed at the register...and hope you figured the taxables properly...

It hardly gets more real than that.

[wellstone_democrat]

102. really? guess again

Some of us do now have it better than in our childhoods but we didn't lose the memory or the empathy. And, some on this forum that I know use computers at the public library, at campus clusters where they are up to their neck in loans and hanging on by their fingernails to stay in school so they can escape.

a label? Obviously *you* have never had a tooth break and had no money or a car break down and have no money. That isn't a label, its heart stopping fear.

[Jo March]

110. The fear is what stays with you

The fear that there is not enough money. That "they" will come and turn off the lights. The fear that you have when your mother cries and you can't help her because you are just a little kid and you have no money or ways to help. The fear that you see in your mom's eyes whenever the phone rings because the phone can only bring bad news.

It is a state of mind. I have never lost it. I still see myself as that scared little poor kid. I loathe myself for it because it makes me feel helpless and scared and ashamed.

It is a state of mind.

God bless the child who suffers.

[Tigress DEM]

111. I wasn't poor! I was financially challenged!

Still, we didn't have it as bad growing up as some and we shared when we did have some extra.

But you can only do so much with positive thoughts. During the Reagan error-era I had trouble getting my kid to eat, because even if the food was just fine, knowing it came from the food shelf puts most kids in the mood to go hungry for days.

If you are at a certain level of poor, life is fundamentally different. You don't just have distasteful food to eat, you have to swallow your pride as well.

And being poor can be dangerous to your health.

My dad was a disabled vet and we lived with the 80-20 insurance for the family (don't get sick until the 20% was paid off) and a VA that told my dad for years that his colon cancer was hemorrhoids because they couldn't be bothered to do any of the tests that would have verified the truth of the matter.

When they finally DID get around to the correct diagnosis my dad wound up having to have a lot of his colon cut out and lived for a several years with "his butt in a bag" as he called it.

The final cause of death was a heart attack, but I saw the fight go out of my dad when he went from over 200lbs - 6' to under 100lbs - hunched over in a wheelchair looking like some frail thing that would never stretch to that height.

AND there was NO Republican UPROAR over this shabby, shabby treatment of a Korean War Vet.

[YOY]

95. The America I know or the one GW Bush lives in?

Everytime I'm in a developing country and hear just how wonderful it must be to be an American I can't help but repeat something like that.

Course now-a-days everyone hates us so what's the point of even explaining it to them?

[Sapphire Blue]

98. ***Credit*** to John Scalzi, author of "Being Poor"...

Being Poor: http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003704.html

Being Poor Additional Comments Post: http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003708.html

Reaffirming Christianity (a followup to "Being Poor"): http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003713.html

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wellstone_democrat]

103. some of us have done that and others will do different

service to the community by trying to stop a war that takes more poor men and women than middle class. Its all a contribution and it all needs to be done. I'm staying home because I did give all my money to relief efforts but I'm glad others are going to speak out.

[Xithras]

104. To those who were once poor but no longer are...

Never forget those you left behind. Never forget that for every poor person who makes it out, three are left behind. Never forget that the terrible memories you have of growing up poor are some childs REALITY today. Never forget that life has given you wonderful opportunities, but that not all were so lucky. Never forget that while you made good choices, others may not have even realized that they were making choices.

Remember what a boon it was when someone generous came into your life and gave you food, money, or a new pair of pants simply because they COULD. Then go BE that person to someone else. Whether you're regularly donating time or money to local shelters and food kitchens, or simply buying a new coat for that poor kid in your childs class, you must remember that we can all make someones life a little better if we just get off our butts and TRY.

I was raised in an extremely poor household for a substantial chunk of my childhood, and there were many nights when mom sent me to bed early simply because she wanted me asleep before I got hungry for dinner. I have a substantial income from various sources today, but I haven't forgotten what that was like and do everything I can to help people out (a fifth of my income was donated out last year). If you don't have that kind of disposable income, there are many smaller things that can help out. Go buy a low cost jacket at WalMart or something, and drop it off at your neighborhood elementary school. Tell the principal to give it to whoever needs it. If you can't afford that, how about just inviting a poor person over for dinner now and then? It may not mean much to you, but it would mean the world to them. If you can't even afford that, call up a local shelter or food warehouse and see if they can use a volounteer one afternoon. See if your local Salvation Army needs help laundering or patching clothes. Heck, see if the local womens shelter would like to have someone come in and read stories to the kids one afternoon.

You don't have to be wealthy to help someone out, you just have to be willing.

[maveric]

105. Being on a 1st name basis with the pawnshop guy and having a love-hate

relationship with him.

[im10ashus]

106. This should be a democratic talking point.

Thanks for sharing. It's very humbling. Kicked and nominated!

:hi:

:kick:

[sweetheart]

113. Surrendering poverty

Being poor is tragic,
would that a peasant revolt,
Wat Tyler and Jack Straw again
overthrow the king for a day
a pyrric victory in the hangman's noose.

[Hidden Stillness]

115. Being Poor is Not Having Social Support, or a Government to Turn To

The following is a message I posted a little while ago on another "Being Poor" thread, that had only a few posts and sank quickly. I don't know why there is more interest now--whether Katrina (now Rita) or Edwards' recent speech, etc.--but I hope this finally again becomes a Democratic policy, to actively fight against poverty and ignore their corporations for five fucking seconds, as they have not done since the Johnson Administration. Changed the original post a little here (mainly adding a few):

Being poor is knowing that of all the commercials for lovely, fun things on TV, radio, websites, or anywhere else, none of it has anything to do with you.

Being poor is that withering dread you feel at any strange new sound from your car, heating system, plumbing, or anything else, because whatever it is, you can't fix it.

Being poor means that the kind of vehicle you drive really is not an expression of your personality or style. Sometimes all it means it that it still runs.

Being poor means you have levels upon levels of planning--when can you do this, will you have money by then, which thing should you buy since you can't get both, should you fix this or buy another, measuring costs and life of the item, should you just hang on and do nothing, on and on and on...
Being poor means that no matter how good you are with money and how quickly you noticed some problem, it is going to get worse anyway. Being poor is the anger you feel at the useless injustice of this situation.

Being poor means you believe that one of these days, your life will actually start, in the future, and things will be paid, and get easier; it will be different, because this can't be my whole life.

Being poor means that you do not identify with this society as you used to. The people on TV etc. have no variety anymore, now they are all just rich people, who have what I do not; you fear to apply for government programs you may qualify for, because the only thing you can imagine about it, is that they will hate you, and probably find a way to take away even more from you. Now that I am not really middle class anymore, I am aware of how hated the poor are, and you are always hiding the fact of your poverty. "The richest country in the world," but not for me.

Being poor means that you can never follow up on anything. If you get a hobby, want to become something or pursue a career, you have no money to buy anything, for transportation, anything. It is best to just be brain dead; you can never change. There are small items I have wanted to buy for years now, and have never had the extra cash.

Being poor means that no one knows that you are a good person. I would be donating money all over the place if I could. I never do, and not by choice.

Being poor means I wonder year after year what "rich liberals" consider an important social cause, and why it is always something trivial and photogenic. Being poor means that you approach all politcal fights hopeless and presuming you will lose. Rich people always win.

Being poor is something I did not grow up as, and never thought I would be.