Unbefuckinglievable. ABC News just spit in the face of every gay man alive

[Zenlitened]

They did the story about the catholic church purging gay priests, and reported the whole thing in the context of "recovering from the priest sex scandal."

They completely bought into the repugnant, evil vatican meme equating gays with pedophiles.

Not even a HINT, in this shit-awful reporting, that anyone would object to the insinuation.

Unreal. In the year 2005, that a so-called mainstream news outlet could and would cover the story this way.

:grr:

[ourbluenation]

1. get me a godamn email address now. They should get an earful

for this...this just pisses me off no end.

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. Send them this pic too... sums it up nicely

[Amonester]

40. One would think he would not like to be attacked for these...

because, I got an idea from where he learned how to catapult the propaganda...




x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x(

[AX10]

81. "Papa Pig"

[goclark]

95. Papa Pig installed by Bushco

People that live in crystal houses should not throw stones at anyone!

[mrdmk]

14. Here are a whole glob of links to the media

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x17759

[Lindacooks]

2. I saw that too and I sent off an email right away:

http://abcnews.go.com/Reference/story?id=54216

Those fucking bastards just set back years of progress.

[Cha]

3. I hope you're writing to

them and telling them what you think. Make them accountable..maybe David Brock will too on Mediamatters.

[supernova]

4. Who was the reporter?

John Stossel? Obviously somebody who doesn't know the difference.

[Lindacooks]

5. Elizabeth Vargas

[Malikshah]

45. No great surprise after she shit on Matthew's grave a few

months ago.

the gay-hating piece of shit...may any children she gives birth to come out sideways.

[Deja Q]

77. Well, if that h...uman hates homos, she can convert them herself.

Fuck up or shut up, lady. "lady".

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. Obviously the Vatican

has the same misconception. Pitiful.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Unbelievable

[Systematic Chaos]

9. Try telling one of my best friends (who is gay) that HE'S a pedophile

I would happily help him beat that person's face in. That I know of, he has volunteered to babysit for at least 3 or 4 kids, or let them stay at his place while the parents were gone. For free. And the children were NOT harmed.

People who try and make that association just piss me off to no end. :grr:

[cynatnite]

10. I caught the blurb and that's exactly what they did

I changed the channel because it was repugnant.

[Zenlitened]

11. Link for contacting ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/Reference/story?id=54216

Scroll down to click on World News Tonight.

[slackmaster]

12. Thanks for the heads-up - emails will be sent tonight

That's just so stupid.

[Gelliebeans]

13. Sent off an email

and told them to pull their collective heads out of their asses. I also told them that they need to apologize to the GLBT community for the inference that homosexuality could EVEN be on the same level as criminal deviant pedophiles. BASTARDS.

[Raiden]

15. God! As a straight guy--this pisses me off

Pedophiles are still welcome in the church apparantly--shielded even

[FreedomAngel82]

34. Yep

Don't forget killers. Remember earlier this year when this woman kidnapped a pregnant woman and cut open her womb to take her baby and then killed the mother? Guess what was said about her in the neighborhood? "Oh she's such a nice Christian girl!" As Jesus said "pick the speck out of your own eye first".

[begin_within]

16. If they purge all the gay priests, who will be left? (my friend says 50%)

[KittyWampus]

17. Newsflash! The MALE Priests Were Abusing MALE CHILDREN

this equals gay pedophilia whether you want to admit it or not.

[Zenlitened]

18. Oh, get a grip.

pedophilia is its OWN orientation, has nothing to do with straight or gay.

Or do you consider children as sexual beings?? :puke:

[KittyWampus]

23. you're the one hyperventiliating over ABC mentioning facts

and apparently you can't deal with the fact some MALE priests are screwed up enough to abuse MALE children.

Whether the abused are children or grown ups does naught to change the fact the priests are gay pedophiles.

Or are no gay people ever pedophiles?
Or maybe only heterosexuals engage in pedophilia?

[Zenlitened]

24. Are you even making a shred of sense here?

:wtf:

[KittyWampus]

25. Are only heterosexuals pedophiles?

wouldn't a gay man who sexually molests a male child be a gay pedophile?

It doesn't sound like ABC equated being gay with being a pedophile.

It sounds more like you can't deal with the fact some men who are gay might just be twisted enough to prey on male children.

[Zenlitened]

26. You're babbling now. Reaching, grasping, tap-dancing....

... whatever you want to call it.

Your whole premise is nonsense.

[KittyWampus]

54. I apologise. A DU'er posted below a simple, concise explanation that

pedophilia is not gender specific.

[Zenlitened]

60. Apology accepted.

[Splatter Phoenix]

31. Freddy Krueger prefers little girls.

It said so in Freddy Versus Jason. x_X And he's got to be the most famous fictional pedophile ever.

[Luminous Animal]

27. You are a bit confused.

Gay men have consensual sexual relations with other gay men. Pedophiles prey on children. Some prey on female children some prey on male children. Most are straight; that is, most adult male pedophiles' relationships are with adult females. What pedophiles engage in is not a relationship but a perverse activity of dominance and control which has little to do with gay or straight sexuality.

[Splatter Phoenix]

32. You said that well.

Thank you.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

36. well said nt

[KittyWampus]

75. Thank You For Taking The Time To Explain The Definitions.

On the one hand I feel badly my posts were misinformed.

On the other hand they might come in handy for anyone else who might be clueless as to the supposed gender nuetrality of pedophilia.

[im10ashus]

105. Apology accepted.

It's just so insensitive to lump gay men into that category. Thanks for your sudden awareness.

:hi:

[Cronus Protagonist]

48. This is exactly what the ignore feature is for...

...it sure makes my day better to be unable to read or see these bigoted opinions. Try it - you might like it too :)

[Systematic Chaos]

19. Uh oh

:popcorn:

[msongs]

22. it equals CHRISTIAN priests molesting children actually :-) nt

[titoresque]

28. Gay pedophile? Like Heterosexual pedophile????????

When EVER do you hear ANYONE call a pedophile and refer to sexual identity unless they say.........Gay pedophile?

Have you ever heard the term Heterosexual Pedophile? NO! .....BECAUSE IT'S NOT USED! Your arguement it absurd and insulting.

It doesnt matter if they are indeed homosexual or heterosexual, the point is that they are predators.

Do you think it's worse if they are gay?

[Splatter Phoenix]

33. Yay, het-pedophile!

Never EVER heard that said, good point.

[Der Blaue Engel]

35. Pedophiles do not molest based on a true gender preference

Rather, they prey on those nearest to them (in this case, altar boys), those who represent their own abusive childhood relationships, or those over whom they want power for whatever reason.

Any psychologist will be happy to explain to you the difference between sex/gender preference and a pathological desire to be sexual with children.

From http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html:

Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't convey implicit assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

The distinction between gender of victim and sexual orientation of perpetrator is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women.

Insisting on calling priests who are pedophiles "gay" perpetuates homophobic, fundie bullshit. That's why Zenlitened called you on it.

[Infomaniac]

37. Very True

And your kitties are beautiful. I was admiring Urd's markings.

[Der Blaue Engel]

38. Thank you

They think so too. :)

[DIKB]

50. Urd's gorgeous.

i LOVE calico cats. I'll have to post a photo of my family's cat Agatha. Even though I'm an adult now and moved out now I consider her OURS, we've had her for over 10 years, and her tones are beautiful.

[KittyWampus]

52. Thank You!

[Lex]

49. PEDOPHILIA and being sexually atrracted to ADULTS (of either sex)

are 2 different things.

PEDOPHILES are attracted sexually to children.

Normal heterosexuals and homosexuals are NOT attracted to children.

PERIOD.

[greekspeak]

51. I cannot beleive homophobia like this exists on DU

God if it is here gay people are doomed. You, friend, clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Men that play with little boys are not always gay. Sometimes. More often, they are straight. I suppose next you will be tell us all that rape is always the woman's fault. I hate to burst your big, fat homophobic bubble, sweet cheeks, but it AIN'T SO.

[Der Blaue Engel]

55. Sometimes it's a simple matter of being uninformed

So whenever I see it, I try to inform. :)

[LostinVA]

84. Sorry, but you're showing you know nothing about pedophila

NEWSFLASH: The vast majority of pedophiles ID as straight men. The reason they prey on boys is because they are around boys; girls aren't acolytes. In Protestant and Jewish churches/synagogues, the majority of children preyed upon are girls, because there is often equal access.

YOU get a grip. This is not "gay" pedophilia. God, and on DU.

[im10ashus]

103. Oh NO you didn't!

First of all, pedophilia is NOT a gay issue. It's the violation of a child and it has happened to both boys and girls AND in the Catholic Church. I was molested IN the church ON the altar when I was 12 and I KNEW I was gay before then. Does that mean I was asking for it? I find your statement highly offensive. Does that mean all gay men are child molesters? I'd really like to see your reasoning to this and excuse me for being so hot over your comments, but that's not what I would expect here.

[ruggerson]

107. There is no such thing as gay pedophelia

You McCartheyite.

Pedophiles are people who prey on CHILDREN.

Gays and lesbians are people who are attracted to adult members of their own sex.

GET A CLUE.

[applegrove]

20. Seems the catholic church are scapegoating christians - just like Bush

[msongs]

21. the Hitler Youth Pope?? nt

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Couldn't you get them for something?

I don't know much about law but isn't that like libel?

[FreedomAngel82]

30. To respond to that

why not find a way to mention Paul Hill and Eric Rudolph?

[caligirl]

39. sent this in .............

Elizabeth Vargas, I believe that is the correct name, just made a huge mistake in reporting on the Catholic church purging gay priests. Her report made reference to the priest sex scandel which as everyone knows involved child sexual abuse by pedophile preists. As a parent of two straight sons who were taught by a gay male teacher in 5th grade I can tell you that the teacher being gay did not make him also a pedophile. To report a story in such a way as to foster an old and hurtful misconception about gay men is truely repugnant and irresponsible. Gay male sexual orientation and pedohilia are not synonomous. How hickish can you be Elizabeth?

[mitchum]

41. Every gay male ABC employee should do a little monkeywrenching...

to their wonderful employer as a gesture of thanks

[niallmac]

42. emailed and I wasn't PC about it.

If the next scape goats are to be the gay community I expect the nazi's will experience some rough sledding.

[Fescue4u]

43. Well priest who diddle boys ARE gay by definition

And since I dont recall hearing about priests raping girls, there DOES seem to be some link to pedophilia and homosexuality as it pertains to the Catholic church.

Of course that doesnt mean that being gay means you are a pedophile, but certainly pedophile priests who diddle boys are gay by definition.

Im quite sure that there are gay priests who manage to stay away from kids, but unfortunately, they don't make news.

Whats totally unfair however, is for the article to project that what goes on in the gay/pedophile/priest community, has any bearing whatsoever on the world at large.

[fearnobush]

44. Actually it seems more probable that paedophilia's, not gays

seek to cure themselves by becoming Priests in the hopes that celibacy will prevent their psychotic desire for children. With no real treatment and continuous exposure to the catholic youth. The deviant behavior becomes exasperated and may even become accepted among these clusters of really sick Priests.

[UncleSepp]

46. No they're NOT gay by definition

See above. A gay man is attracted to other MEN. Grown MEN. Not little boys. Pedophilia something else ENTIRELY!

[Fescue4u]

62. 2 males having sex = at least one is gay

Its that simple.

[UncleSepp]

65. No, it isn't that simple

Not by a long shot.

[Fescue4u]

68. Well we just disagree then

It find it strange that some people are trying to ignore sex while discussing pedophilia.

[UncleSepp]

69. We disagree. I am informed. You are apparently not.

I used to work for the Juvenile and Sex Crimes Unit of a police department. I dealt with case files. I know what I am talking about. You apparently don't.

[Zenlitened]

73. LOL!

:applause:

[Fescue4u]

76. I am informed, you are not.

See I can play that game to.

[UncleSepp]

78. OK, tell me your professional experience dealing with this issue.

On what exactly are you basing your opinion?

[Fescue4u]

82. Would you like me to invent something as creative

as what you invented?

We disagree. leave it at that.

DO you REALLY think that you can force everyone to agree with you?

[UncleSepp]

87. Clearwater PD, 1998. I developed their sex offender database.

Feel free to make up whatever creative background you like. I, on the other hand, will stick to the truth.

[Fescue4u]

92. sure it is

you are big man on the internet.

[Zenlitened]

89. Do you really think that repeating your nonsensical opinions...

... somehow magically transforms them into facts?

Someone tried to educate you here.... with ACTUAL facts.

You responded with flailing and wailing.

[Fescue4u]

91. of course not

I stopped arguing 10 posts back.

But repeating your opinions doesnt nothing either you know.

[Zenlitened]

96. "But repeating your opinions doesnt nothing either you know."

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Fescue4u]

100. My Children like to have the last word to

Sometimes, I let them as it helps them feel powerful.

I will extend to you courtesy of the last word as well.

If it does as much for you as it does for children, I suspect that you will have a wonderful night.

your turn.

[Zenlitened]

102. Cool, I'll take the bait. I imagine you think you've saved face...

... with this little "magnanimous gesture" of yours.

But the fact is, you've conducted yourself poorly. Someone came along with solid information to demonstrate the ignorance underlying your statements... and you responded by digging in your heels. You covered your ears and said "lalalalalalala" to avoid confronting reality.

Maybe, now that you've finished posting in this thread, you'll take some time to actually read it. Maybe you'll learn how seriously wrong you are on this topic, how uninformed, and will take steps to form an educated understanding of the matter.

Good luck.

[Zenlitened]

85. AuntJen... the advantage is clearly yours here.

You are arguing with facts, your opponent can't distinguish ill-informed opionion from reality.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. :hi:

[Fescue4u]

90. AuntJen, I respect your opinion and you win the argument

I hope that helps your ego.


(But we still disagree.)

[Zenlitened]

93. AuntJen cited facts. You spewed opinion.

Truth hurts your ego?

Good luck in the reality-based community.

[Fescue4u]

97. I see those facts as opinion

She sees my facts as opinion.

Discourse is wonderful

[Zenlitened]

47. Flat-out wrong, on two counts.

Pedophilia is not merely a form of hetero- OR homo-sexual orientation, as other have pointed out quite eloquently in this thread,

Also, significant numbers of clergy abuse victims are female, whether or not you "recall hearing about" it:

Clergy sex abuse of females complicates intricate issue

By MATT STEARNS and JUDY L. THOMAS
The Kansas City Star - July 12, 2002

They are the forgotten victims of clergy sex abuse, neglected by the media and overlooked by church activists.

Yet many experts estimate that females -- both girls and women -- constitute a sizable number of all victims of sexual abuse by priests.

The public focus of the sex abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Church has been on predatory homosexual behavior by rogue priests, and the subsequent cover-up by some bishops.

As a result, female victims say they feel frustrated and isolated as they attempt to deal with the emotional aftermath of sex abuse.

http://www.snapnetwork.org/female_victims/females_complicates_issue.htm

[Fescue4u]

64. Gay people can be pedophiles to

Just being gay doesnt give one a license to be an honorable person.

Most gays are normal, outstanding members of society.

A small number of theives, murderers, speeders and liars.

An even smaller number are pedophiles.

Don't think that being gay gives one a license to do anything they want.

Sadly, some of the gay priests are also pedophiles.

[UncleSepp]

67. Of course. But being gay is not a predictive factor for pedophilia.

That's what this is about. Homo/heterosexuality is unrelated to pedophilia. To purge the Catholic church of gay priests will not help the pedophilia problem, because adult sexual preference and pedophilia are not related.

[Fescue4u]

71. Well I didnt suggest thats it a good idea

"To purge the Catholic church of gay priests will not help the pedophilia problem"

But for some reason, and to my knowledge its limited to the catholic church, pedophiles seem to concentrate their crimes only to males.

That suggests at least a casually linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia in the catholic church.

Of course coorelation is not equal to causation, and it may be simple coorelation.

But to ignore the coorelation is to put ones hand in the sand, imho

[UncleSepp]

74. Your knowledge is more limited than you let on.

[Fescue4u]

80. Of course it is.

I'm not a know it all who trys to force ones knowledge on others on a forum to support my agenda.

Im just a simple man who calls it like it is.

[UncleSepp]

83. You call it like you see it, regardless of the facts - just like W!

[Fescue4u]

86. I see that you have resorted to insults.

very "professional"

[UncleSepp]

88. Hey, I just call it like I see it.

[Fescue4u]

94. EXCELLENT! We have reached common ground

<hugs>

[UncleSepp]

98. Oops. I forgot my sarcasm tag.

[LostinVA]

101. No, it shows your ignorance of how RC Churches operate

Priests are VERY rarely alone with girls, but they are with boys. Why? Girls cannot be acolytes. Altar "boys." Most Fundie and Jewish victims of clergy pedophiles are GIRLS.

Man, what homophobia on DU. Why si this being allowed? Seriously -- this is sexual orientation baiting nd is making me SICK.

[Fescue4u]

104. Possibly you are right

First off. I have shown ZERO homophobia in this thread. To suggest this suggests you dont understand the word. I have no use for homophobes either.

But I give you the benefit of the doubt and I believe that you meant no offense, or misunderstood my points.

My observation is that in the RC Church, pedophila seems to be limited to male on male crimes. That alone suggests gay oriented pedophilia. We shouldnt ignore the statistics simply because they suggest on surface a coorelation that we find uncomfortable.

Now if as you suggest, that the reason that girls are not victimized as well, that suggests that its simply because boys are the more available victims of opportunity.

At a minimum its certainly worth examining, as opposed to ignoring the issue because of PC concerns.

[greyl]

110. When you said "gay priests who manage to stay away from kids"

, that was homophobia.

[Fescue4u]

111. good find

I guess that does sound homophobic. There was no intent in that phrase and if it offends I apologize.

[Zenlitened]

70. You really should read the thread in a bit more detail.

:eyes:

[Der Blaue Engel]

56. See post #35 above

Also, it seems that priests don't generally have the access to girls that they do to boys.

[Fescue4u]

66. While post #35 is true

(that pedophiles dont choose based on male/female)

Priests *DO* seem to almost exclusively molests young boys.

Males choosing exclusively males for sex makes one gay. (fine)

Men choosing exclusively children for sex makes one a pedophile.

Men choosing exclusively male children for sex, makes one a gay pedophile.

Gays are not immune from criminal behavior, any more than hetero are.

[UncleSepp]

72. You aren't getting it. The choice of gender of a child...

as a sexual target is not strongly related to the choice of gender of an adult as a sexual partner. Many pedophiles have no adult sexual orientation. Of the (male) ones who do, the adult sexual orientation is very often toward women while the preferred child target gender is male.

[Der Blaue Engel]

108. I see you don't read very well

No one is saying gays are immune from criminal behavior, we are saying that pedophiles do not have normal, gender-based attractions, and that to refer to one as either a "gay pedophile" or a "straight pedophile" is misleading nomenclature and has no meaning.

The inference of the ABC story is that the Catholic church is getting rid of gay priests to prevent children from being molested. Do you not see the utter homophobic fallacy of this?

[Fescue4u]

112. I went to public school so thats the best I can do

So I'll just ignore your non-sequitor insult because I assume no one taught you better manners.

As for your question: "Do you not see the utter homophobic fallacy of this?"

As a matter of fact I do. I didnt address this fallacy in any of my posts. I felt that others covered it very well.

Of course this doesnt change the fact that homosexuals AND straight people come in all forms, including pedophiles.

[LostinVA]

99. God, such ignorance and homophobia on DU!

Most pedophiles ID as STRAIGHT when they have relationships with other adults. Pedophiles prey on CHILDREN< not boys or girls, CHILDREN. Catholic priests are rarely around girls, as girls cannot be acolytes. Research pedophilia in Protestant churches and Jewish synagogues -- see what percentages you have there.

Seriously, there is no excuse for these statements on DU. This is not discussion. This is inflammatory. As a gay woman, this sickens me. Comments like this about race and probably gender would be deleted. This is sickening.

Thread going on ignore.

[dandrhesse]

53. This is what I just sent to ABC

Shame on you ABC!

Have you any evidence whatsever to support the position that gay = pedophile? You don't? No, you don't because none exist! Your choice of words and lack of accuracy in your story about the Catholic Church purging gay priests is insulting and damaging to the gay community.

Being gay does not, did you read that, DOES NOT mean being a PEDOPHILE!

Well unless you also equate such unrelated things such as every man over 50 who is left-handed is a pervert! Or how about every child brought up in a Catholic home is a pervert who loves pedophiles!

I mean these causal links are as ridiculous as your story! You owe the gay community a retraction and an apology. I knew that the homophobic GOP controlled the press but I wasn't aware that they also own your news editor, but I do now.

How utterly embarrassing, just when I thought the US could embarrass itself no further those who control the purse strings come up with a new way to sink yet a another notch lower in the mud.

Unbelievable, shame on you!

Do the right thing, apologize
Answer the call!

[Ms. Toad]

57. (All, not just OP) Please read this before firing off angry emails

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1150776&page=1

>>James Hitchcock, a church historian at St. Louis University and conservative commentator on contemporary Catholicism, said he thinks the ban is necessary considering that a study the U.S. bishops commissioned from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found most of the alleged abuse victims since 1950 were adolescent boys.<<

>>Estimates of the number of gay seminarians and priests vary from 25 percent to 50 percent out of about 42,500 priests in the United States. Whatever the percentage, many Catholics are worried that the priesthood is becoming a homosexual profession. As the abuse crisis intensified, church officials discussed their concerns more openly and more urgently, even though experts on sex offenders said that homosexuals were no more likely than heterosexuals to abuse children.

Critics ranging from gay rights groups to advocates for victims have accused the Vatican of scapegoating homosexuals to divert attention from the church's failures to protect children.<<

Although ABC did not respond as strongly as I might like in their print report they at least did not let the assertions of the church go unchallenged. They should be encouraged to seek out a specific counter expert, and to make their on air report as balanced (or more) as their print report. I often get a better response when I can start out by pointing out the good (even if smaller than I would like) first step. (And if they get totally blasted when they did at least point fingers in the right direction they may not even bother next time in either print or on air.)

[KittyWampus]

58. May I Ask How You Found This Article?

[Ms. Toad]

61. Google, News search

using the phrase: ABC seminary catholic abuse

It brings up about 180 copies of the article.

[cynatnite]

59. Any adult who molests children are pedophiles...

Their sexual orientation is for children. Whether homosexual or heterosexual, it doesn't matter. They are pedophiles and that is how they should be identified. Period.

[Trillo]

63. Its just a new stratagem in an old game of avoiding responsibility

and protecting some priests. This time, the RCC is protecting heterosexual pedophiles, and framing their only responsibility as limited to sexual orientation.

[KittyWampus]

106. but I thought I learned in this thread that pedophilia has nothing to do

with sexual orientation and there is no such thing as hetero or homo pedophiles.
:shrug:

[Der Blaue Engel]

109. Point is, someone can identify as a heterosexual

and still molest children of the same sex as themselves. In fact, it is the most frequent scenario. In the article I posted before (I think...may have been another), they cited men who identify or at least behave as though they are straight (e.g., by marrying women) and who then molest boys as being the most prevalent among pedophiles.

[KittyWampus]

114. Okay, but just because someone idenifies themself as 'straight' doesn't

mean they necessarily are, does it?

When it comes to sexuality and life in general, there's a lot of denial and avoidance and living in closets. That would apply to just about everyone to a degree on some issue or other.

If a person is homosexual but in deep denial or suffering from shame, wouldn't marrying a woman and attempting to identify as straight be preferable?

And when the denial and self-loathing becomes too much, might they not prey upon a powerless younger person of same sex to unthinkingly relieve some of the inner tension?

Also, I find seperating the use of ones sexuality for power trips from general sexual behavior kind of hard to understand. Question, does rape and sado-masocism differ only to the extent of consensuality?

[Der Blaue Engel]

115. Two points I'm trying to make:

1) Since there are many more pedophiles among men who claim or appear to be straight, banning gay men from the priesthood would seem to do nothing at all to address the problem, but rather would be clear discrimination based on homophobic assumptions. (To my understanding, the Vatican is talking about priests who are out as gay, so we're not talking about determining whether some priests who claim to be straight are really gay. They may indeed be, but they are not the ones who will be banned.)

2) Pedophilic behavior is not really straight or gay, it is another thing altogether, and the choice of victim does not necessarily or even usually bear any relationship to the sex of adults to whom the abuser is attracted (if they are truly attracted to adults at all).

Yes, people can be in the closet, but no, I do not accept that denial and self-loathing of one's natural sexual orientation leads to pedophilia.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your last point. If you're saying that it seems logical that sexual predators would prey upon the sex to which they are attracted, I don't think that necessarily follows. Take prison, for instance; there are plenty of instances where men rape men when they are in no way attracted to men. It's about power, dehumanization, and humiliation.

As for your question, are you asking if the difference between rape and sado-masochism is only a matter of consent? No. SM is in no way related to rape. Neither is the difference between rape and sex only a matter of consent. A person does not rape someone simply because they want sex and the other person doesn't consent. It is far more complex, and far less related to sexual attraction. It is more likely an expression of the hatred of a particular sex.

[Trillo]

113. Der Blaue Engel's psychological reference is probably right,

it seems a more accurate label is male-female (or male to male) pedophiles.

If a priest, both in mind and heart is to be "truly" celibate, how can they have any preferred sexual orientation?

[im10ashus]

79. OMFG!!!!

I posted on this last night and was PISSED about the Catholic Church doing this because they would use gay clergy as a scapegoat. I am SO going to write letters now. Bastards!!!

[The Magistrate]

116. Locking

This has become a flame-war.