I think the freeper lurkers come here to find the truth, & won't admit it

[mopaul]

they can't find it in freeperland or the other shitty forums, so they come here, read a bit, and go back and lie about how disgusting they found it, but secretly, it's their only source of unadulterated truth.

poor silly things.

[Arkana]

1. Pure, uncut truth.

They're lightweights--they'd be tweaking after the first hit. :P

[applegrove]

2. Too bad we couldn't charge for lurkers and send the money to the Dems.

[KingFlorez]

3. Good post!

:applause: :applause:

[Tace]

4. No Doubt

Unfortunately, or not, we're not very tolerant of the uninitiated. I've seen a number of well-meaning people get shredded on this board.

[blove20]

5. I'm here...

I am a Republican and i come here to find out what you guys are talking about and looking for strong arguments.

[TomInTib]

7. Is that true and is your mind open to a new P.O.V.?

[blove20]

12. open mind

I always have an open mind but, you have to prove it to me rather then appeal to emotion.

[melody]

21. emotion is the purview of the right-wing

Many of the freepers are regressed emotionally volatile adult children.

However, anyone who isn't "open minded" enough by now to quit the Republican party isn't "open minded" enough to read the arguments here and see the truth in them.

[melody]

117. btw, that should have read "emotionALISM"

[Binka]

142. Fuck you Bloviator20

Happy Pizza Land!!!!

[Arkana]

9. Strong arguments for what?

[mopaul]

10. so let's argue strongly

[blove20]

14. not argue strongly...

I need strong arguments. solid, valid and true.

[mopaul]

15. the fact that bush is mentally unstable is a good subject for discussion

[blove20]

16. proof...

use facts. name calling gets nobody anywhere.

[mopaul]

19. 1st i didn't call you a name, 2nd, any FOOL can see the guy's nuts

and if you can't, you're nuts.

[blove20]

23. not me

i didnt say you called me a name, i'm saying calling the President a name. and just because i dont see it your way, at least now anyway, doesnt make me nuts.

[mopaul]

25. do sane people speak like that, or lie like that?

why exactly do you support the ridiculous fuckhead?

[rockymountaindem]

28. Way to go.

Disrespecting people and their views is a great way to get them to agree with you.

[mopaul]

30. fuckem

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SpiralHawk]

68. No, we do not have time to kick sand in faces of people

who are making a sincere inquiry into what is going on America.

Welcome fellow American.

Please don't base your opinion of DU on just one thread. We go all over the place, just like Freerepublic.com, because we are one big messy hoop of human beings. We all get heated up sometimes and fire in anger, me included.

But if you stick around long enough to get a sense of what is really going on here, you may learn some useful things. At least I hope so.

[rockymountaindem]

33. That's a fine attitude.

I wonder why we can't get moderates to see things our way. I'd rather treat them with respect and get their votes later than piss 'em off now just to feel good.

[mopaul]

35. good luck with that

[rockymountaindem]

It's for real.

I've converted some of my friends already. Disbelieve me if you want, but if you want to win elections, I think my tac works better.

[titoresque]

44. oh geeeez....there will be NO "elections"!!!

we havent had real elections for two terms.....why start now?

[rockymountaindem]

51. So what, we should just quit and go home?

You obviously haven't quit or else you wouldn't be posting on a political website. Why should I quit?

[titoresque]

65. Of course I am not saying to quit

I just feel strongly that the revolution which is what we need will not be won or fought by casting a phony ballot to diebold.
There are other more effective ways to fight.......our Dem leaders have failed us, Repub leaders have failed us.......WE ARE THE LEADERS

[blove20]

38. Thank You

[rockymountaindem]

48. You're welcome.

Seriously, I wouldn't advise a lot of my liberal friends to come to DU. It can be pretty harsh. Please don't think we're all viscious attack dogs whose main argument is "bush is a fuckhead". If people ever want to have a serious argument about why liberalism is better than conservatism or vice versa, I'm up for it. Sadly, this thread is obviously not the place.

I didn't grow up liberal in Colorado Springs without learning a few good ways to defend my beliefs :)

[mopaul]

53. yeah being sweet and reasonable has worked out great for us huh?

[rockymountaindem]

66. Has your way worked out better?

Well? We're still in this shithole. Has your way worked out better?

You can't fight when you're blinded by rage.

[mopaul]

69. rage? rage? we haven't even begun to rage

and once again, it's MY fault we're in the shit hole

[rockymountaindem]

75. It's neither your fault nor mine.

But that's what you implied in your last post to me; i.e. that being reasonable gets us nowhere.

You know, it's possible to be reasonable without compromising on your beliefs.

[blove20]

59. you are a credit to your kind :)

[loudsue]

79. "Liberal" Colorado Springs???????? You just outed yourself. LOL!

:kick:

[rockymountaindem]

91. I said "I grew up liberal in Colorado Springs"

not that Colorado Springs is liberal, just me.

[blove20]

37. MOPAL

i wont acknowledge you as long as you talk like that. unfortunatly, making arguments like that gets us as a country nowhere.

[mopaul]

40. good for you

we're nowhere anyway

[TomInTib]

34. Get over calling "The President " a "name". Did the repubs

defend Clinton during Monica-gate when he was "The President"? No - they called him "Slick Willy". Plus, Clinton didn't need to remind himself and the rest of us on a daily basis that he was "The President".

The repubs didn't respect "the office of the President" when Clinton was in charge, why should the Dems respect the office when we have such a clueless fool in charge now?

[blove20]

42. not parties...you

i dont defend everything the Reps do. I know that i didnt call him that. I dont like Clinton because what he did was immoral and disgraced the Office.

[mopaul]

46. yeah, immoral disgraceful bill

but bush is the paragon of virtue and integrity, jesus christ, gimme a break from your glaring hypocrisy

[titoresque]

60. Like saying "look at me I'm a born again Christian"

and not knowing where your church is? Like sending close to 2,000 men and women to their death...on a lie? oh, I could go on and on....but like that? D oyou mean disgracing the WH and the office of President like that?

Immoral? Oh please.....excuse me.....WWJD? Are you a Christian? Please answer this.....did Jesus...you know the guy who died for your sins......did he ever advocate war? You think these innocent civilian children in Iraq deserve all that we have brought to them?

Christians for War are like Nazis for Peace! What are you?

[Splatter Phoenix]

71. "I come not for peace, but bearing a sword." n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

154. ROFLMAO!

You're kidding right? RIGHT? :rofl: That's just silly! OTOH, Pinhead** lies and people die! Guess that doesn't bother you as much as Clinton "lying" about a Blow Job does, huh? Sick! Just Sick!

[TheWatcher]

136. Why not?

It's the hallmark of what you people do. Smear, distort, name-call, etc. You come here claiming you want strong arguments and facts and there are nothing but that on this Site. If you can't glean anything from what is posted here, in great abundance, and process something useful from it, you are beyond hope. To be honest I have given up on most of you. You aren't reachable, and you aren't interested in facts. You're interested in whatever reinforces your beleifs and you defend it like it's your lifeline, DESPITE the facts presented to the contrary.

Most of what you people cling to is blind group think and lock-step talking points. Your post and the ideas in it are laughably hypocritical considering what the cheerleaders for your side (Limbaugh, Hannity, et al) Subject you to and poison your minds with everyday.

Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that little one-liner.

You aren't ready for real discussion.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

20. All you really need to do is to start paying attention.

The truth is all around you.

[blove20]

24. truth....

is subject. based on arguments, and facts.

[Splatter Phoenix]

26. True.

We could argue emotionally all day and night back and forth. I'm actually glad you're here, it does probably mean you're willing to listen to the other side...

..Remember Bush talking about WMDs, to begin with....?

[blove20]

32. WMD's

Saddam has them or did at one time, he used them on his own people. And i recall Kerry acknowledging WMD's during the debates.

[mopaul]

36. and REAGAN sold them to him, we have the receipts

shitty talkiing point, long ago discredited

[DancingBear]

39. You could ask the gentleman who shook his hand - twice

I believe his name is Rumsfeld, or something like that.

[Splatter Phoenix]

45. Yes, but...sweetie, where are they?

They've had tons of time to look for them...a lot longer than they gave the weapon-inspectors.

By the by. Try not to listen to the flame-peoples, I think they're only upset and frustrated right now...>_<

[blove20]

54. Syria

[mopaul]

58. proof?

or faith

[DancingBear]

67. No - Rush says they are in Ghana

Trust me on this.

Ghana.

[uncle ray]

123. ahhhh, it's so cute

when the mods leave a token freep..ah,er uh, i mean republican for us to play with!

[TheWatcher]

137. You Are completely useless

Just like the rest of the idiots over at FR. You come here bloviating about Facts this, and truth that, and you won't respond unless there is an exchange of facts and proof, blah, blah, blah, and then you pull something like THIS out of your hat which is totally unsubstantiated, and has NEVER been proven. Not one shred of proof. Where is YOUR proof of this.

Once again, you people CANNOT learn, because you don't beleive anything based in reality, and even when reality is shoved in your face in an indisputable form that you cannot relent from, you still run to Rush or Hannity to explain it all away and make it better.

You people are hopeless.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

82. They're... around... Baghdad and east, west, south and north

30 Mar 2003 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells This Week with George Stephanopoulos: "the area... that coalition forces control... happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

[titoresque]

27. ok here are some facts for you

research the Downing Street Memo. Do you know anything about the DSM?
And if so do you agree that fixing the facts to send us to war is
illegal? And should be deemed as such? And please do not give me the whole "we're there so let's stay the course" arguement because that's not the question.

[Dr Fate]

22. Do a google on Norm Woodruff- and see link in post #8...

...which includes other articles- including an LA Times editorial written by Norm.

The existence of Rush's Gay Mentor is indeed "solid, valid and true"- the real question is:

Why hasnt he been open & honest about this gentleman?

[Dr Fate]

13. Please see post # 8- pass it on to FR for rebuttal.

n/t

[TomInTib]

18. Also, isn't being a republican just about killing you right now?

I cannot imagine being loyal to a party with such astonishinly corrupt and incompetent leadership that goes against the basic tenets of the party. The federal deficit, pork and cronyism so out of control that it makes the notorious NO or Chicago administrations seem competent, efficient, and above politics in comparison.

FYI - this is not a slam againt Nagin in NO, he was just getting started trying to sort out a huge mess.

[blove20]

29. being republican is not killing me...

my ideas, feelings and beliefs arent guided by my party affiliation. They come from family upbringing, life lessons and a idea of helping the whole rather than just whats best for me.


Deficit is arguable based on which economic leader or expert you talk to. cronyism is an issue but i hope that you would acknowledge Clinton and his "cronyism". remember, FEMA's leader had to be approved by the congress, he must of done something right to get through all of them. Why is Nagin free of blame?

[titoresque]

41. The "helping the whole" may have been the Republican

idea of yesteryear but it's NOT the party of today. And maybe you're in a higher tax bracket so you don't quite understand that.....Im just guessing. As for your upbringing.......if I were born into a family of theives and liars.....at some point it's my responsibility as an adult to remove myself from the family.....or be called a theif and a liar.

[blove20]

50. my upbringing and tax bracket

im a teacher so i have no tax bracket :) Once again, I am loyal to me and my beliefs, not to a party.

[mopaul]

56. so a TEACHER supports the stupidest man ever for president?

git off it

[titoresque]

70. you're loyal to liars and murderers

but hey......I guess you have company.......not much, and really rather vile company but you still have 'em

[HoosierClarkie]

90. As a former republican myself...

"fool me once and uh... you can't get fooled again." -Bush

This link alone is enough for me to question everything this administration does.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm

This is just his intelligence. I did not even mention his malicious intentions.

[DelawareValleyDem]

43. 'a idea of helping the whole rather than just whats best for me'

so your inclination toward utilitarianism caused you to become a Republican?

:rofl:

[blove20]

55. no, capitalism and self reliance

[DelawareValleyDem]

64. Yes,I saw how 'self-reliant' Mr. Bush was

as he entered college as a legacy admit.

:rofl:

[Qibing Zero]

73. Ah, the Great Capitalistic Cycle myth!

One of my favs!

Which will it be today?

-Everybody gets a chance, it's their fault if they fail
-If we give people what they need to survive, they'll be lazy and do nothing

Or will we just talk about the evils of taxes and anti-trust laws?



lalalala

[Kali]

47. I have a question that is in fact more subjective and emotional.

What do you see when you watch Bush speak? Do you see a competent, well spoken, informed leader?

[blove20]

63. honestly...

i see a man who believes in what he says. right or wrong. not saying everything he says or does is right but i do believe that he believes its right.

[titoresque]

72. I know crazy people who honestly think they

hear voices in their head.....I bet they really do.

[Qibing Zero]

But don't you think that's dangerous?

..deadly dangerous even?

[TomInTib]

77. And he screws up everything AND he cannot speak English!

Please tell me you're not a special ed teacher who is telling your students that they too can be President, as long as they are Republican.

All Bill was guilty of was a blow-job. Oh yeah, and wanting health care for every American. Nobody died under his administration, especially for a lie.

WMD = W's a Mental Deviant.

[blove20]

78. actually

I am a spec ed teacher thank you very much. and i tell my students they can become whatever they work hard to accomplish. thats the American way. Health care for every American is fine, but who pays for it and who supplies it is a different argument all together. If its the government, its socialism. not Capitlism.

[kentuck]

105. Another stupid argument...

We can go $3 trillion dollars in debt in 5 short years but you are concerned about who is going to pay for "heathcare" ? Who's gonna pay for Iraq" Who's gonna pay for the disasters" Do you think there is no limit to how much you can borrow and spend? Or are you one of those folks that like to talk about the "percent of the GDP" bullshit, as if that were relevant to anything?

[never cry wolf]

119. Who pays your salary?

Government maybe? I salute you for being a spec ed teacher but aren't your students the beneficiaries of all of our tax dollars? Are we not all trying to help them be whatever they want to work for to accomplish? Where would they be without the support and nurturing you give them and instead left to their own means? Social darwinism would leave them in the dust, my friend. Mankind flourished when we determined that we must be a community and help each other.

I'm just asking...

[uncle ray]

124. do they believe your lie?

i wonder how many of them work really, REALLY hard(it's hard work, ya know) to not be quite so special? oh, oh, i know, if they don't accomplish it, they didn't WORK HARD ENOUGH!

[blove20]

81. Bosnia ring a bell?

[never cry wolf]

120. Do you know how many live were lost in Bosnia due to combat?

ZERO! To this day, zero. The bad guy was taken into custody and put on trial at a mere few percentage of the cost of Iraq. We also had NATO with us. Where is Osama?

[kentuck]

80. That's about the most stupid thing I have read tonight...

"...but i do believe that he believes its right." ????!!!!!!!!!1

But what do the facts say? You respect him because you "believe" that he "believes" he is right? I think you have contradicted your initial reasoning?

[blove20]

84. how so?

[kentuck]

95. If you have to ask....

You are beyond help. Go on back and listen to Rush and Hannity and stop wasting our time. OK? Now, shoo!

[Kali]

101. I think you are partially correct

I think he does believe the simplistic things he can comprehend (about a 7th or 8th grade level). Beyond that I don't believe he is even capable of understanding complex issues like international relatinships, ecology, (much of any science, really), economics or anything a real adult person posing as a president of this country should be able to grasp. He and his "masters" truly frighten me because they operate witn no transparency and they seem not to comprehend the concepts of responsibilty and accountability, much less human compassion or true "christanity". (christlike attributes, as opposed to Old Testament angry deity)

[jane_pippin]

121. The Costanza Defense in action!

If he were to say something that you knew was a bald faced lie--say, "green in traffic lights means stop," as an example--but he just said it like he believed it to be so true that the thought that he could be wrong isn't even a possibility for him, would you still count his believing in what he says a virtue? What if he did it a lot?

What if every single day, he walked out into the rose garden, confident as can be, telling you things like "cars are powered by Pepsi-Cola," or "babies are made by Sears," what then?

Now, replace these preposterous examples with "Saddam...has sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa," or "We're going to get Osama," or "I'm a uniter, not a divider." How can you find this behavior acceptable from the leadership of this country? I'm sure he believed the hell out of those things when he said them. Doesn't make any of them true though.

The Costanza Defense! It's not a lie if George believes it!

[Bouncy Ball]

151. Hey blove

my crazy mom honestly really believes that people are out to get her and they are using electric rays that come in through the electrical sockets in her house. She believes in what she says right or wrong. Not saying everything she says or does is right but I do believe that she believes its right.

Doesn't mean I think she would make a good president, know what I mean?

And by the way, you demand facts. And you say the WMDs are in Syria. Cough up the facts to support that assertion. Make them good and make it fast.

Thank you.

[DancingBear]

49. Deficit is arguable??

What, is negative positive now?

You asked for facts - don't respond in ambiguity.

"Family upbringing" - gay rights ring a bell, or was that verbotten in your family upbringing?

[TomInTib]

52. Helping the whole!!!!!!!!!!???????????

Please, please, please spend some more time here, and keep your antennae up...

The current administration only helps the ones that pay them. That's why the Dems are so marginalized right now, they actually ARE trying to help the whole, but the "whole" doesn't have a whole lot of money to buy their influence.

Deficit is deficit. Which economic leader are you talking to that says we are not in the hole right now?

As for cronyism and FEMA, the repubs own the entire government right now, and any time the dems speak up, they are "just playing politics".

HELLOOOOOOO...the repubs are totally in charge and we are going to hell in a hand-basket!

When the repubs that are up for re-election, and the conservative pundits are jumping ship, this has to tell you something.

[Qibing Zero]

57. That's strange

Coming from what you've said about helping the whole instead of the individual, I wouldn't think you to support many of the republicans out there today.

But yeah, as far as I'm concerned, nearly every last person in any position of power in the government has at least partial blame for the horrible state our country is in right now. Some are actually outspoken about these issues, even if we don't notice it as much and even if they aren't able to change anything, but the majority just follows along the corporate lines and doesn't seem to care one way or the other. The divide between the people and the government in the US is by far the biggest problem we have today.

However, you don't get a job simply because of your requirements or who you know, it's a combination of both. You MUST have the requirements for a big job like the director of FEMA, but at the same time you have to know someone to even be considered. It's when you hire someone who is in no way qualified that it becomes a problem. It wasn't that the FEMA director did anything right, it was that people passed it off and didn't really care. They were too caught up in the motions, and blindly trusted bush (for whatever reason) to pick someone worthy of the job.

[Clark2008]

62. If you believe in helping the whole, then you're NOT a Republican

The Republican Party, for whatever reason, has become a party of greed. They are about helping the hyper-wealthy.

You're never going to be that rich. Give it up. And realize we middle classers are being taxed out, jobbed-out, and left-behind.

[blove20]

74. not true

tax breaks for the "wealthy" help us stay out of a recession. i apologize, i cant type very fast and its tought to keep up with everbody and hit on every point.

[titoresque]

83. Oh Christ......I thought maybe we could have a decent

intelligent conversation with you sir.....I was wrong.
You are quite obviously a talking head, and I am betting you are
like most of the Republicans I know...very arrogant.
You say you are only interested in facts and not emotion but you cannot even state a sigle solid fact yourself and have resorted to
blaming your family (upbringing) for your irresponsible loyalty to
a pack of liars and murderers.

I was wrong.....enjoy your stay, I suspect it won't last long.......might as well show your true colors. We know what they look like.

[blove20]

87. I dont "blame" my family for anything...

You have no idea about my family so watch what you say.

[titoresque]

92. you said you base your beliefs on your upbringing....sounds like blame

to me. Especially when you can't even have a proper arguement about
your "strong" beliefs other than to say.......you "believe"
Where are the FACTS you base your belief system upon? Or is this all Christian faith?

Please.....enlighten us :)

[blove20]

103. I am going to say this and leave it at that.....

the belief coment came in referance to a question about what i "think" of the President and his speeches.

What is wrong with being Christian/ it gives me a sence of guidlines and right and wrong and holds me accountable for something other than myself. i will defend that till i die.

the FACTS are that America was built on hard work and self reliance, the more we depend on the government for anything, we set ourself up for disaster. all I want is for all of us is to understand respect for one another is what will keep us going and not degrading differance of opinions like BOTH sides do. I ask all of you to look at yourself and ask id you have ever been in a leadership role and have to make disisions based on what you thought were best and not just about what the popular thing was.

I leave you with that because i have lesson planning to do but as angry as this might make some of you, God Bless You and i will check in as soon as i can.

Some of you are the key to all of this, some of you are the problem, i hope in the long run i am part of the solution.

[mopaul]

106. and god bless you, for all the good it will do

[kentuck]

109. If you voted for Bush, you are part of the problem...

and you are guilty just as he is, and you have blood on your hands. Unless you are willing to admit you are wrong, stay away. We don't need the disruptions. We have heard so much of your type of bullshit for so long that we no longer have any desire to hear more. Goodbye.

[justgamma]

118. Thanks for sharing some of your insights.

I really don't understand Bush supporters and I really would like to. Before Bush, I used to think we were all in this together. That the Republicans just wanted to go about it a different way. Now, I'm just frightened for my country. I have yet to hear a discussion of different points of view without name calling. Too much emotion out there.
Thanks for having so much patience with our group.

[TheWatcher]

140. Yes, you have lesson planing to do.

More like you are a complete and utter Coward like your failed President who runs when the facts and reality get a LITTLE too close for comfort.

Do us a favor.

Go back and have a laugh with your fellow robots over at the other Board.

After all, you didn't really come here to learn anything.

but you were good for a laugh.

No please, let the rest of us get back to caring about the country, while we try and figure out how to keep YOU people from destroying it.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

146. Please do your students a favor

and take a remedial course in English 101. I am not a mean person, but, damn, I hope your are not teaching spelling. Or government, for that matter.

[Bouncy Ball]

153. Holy SHIT you are a TEACHER?

My GOD, look at that spelling, grammar, sentence structure.

Jesus wept.

No wonder you guys hate public education so much. You preach about everyone else needing to be self-reliant, but you can't even bother to clean up your own writing skills, so you blame your teachers.

And apparently in some cases, BECOME teachers.

Shit. That is so scary that you teach. I hope it's not English.

[confludemocrat]

107. watch what I say: your family raised a pretty shallow mind by all evidence

thanks for letting us in how just how shallow

[Bouncy Ball]

152. He or she hasn't backed up their assertion that the WMDs are in

Syria with any facts, but demands facts of others.

Classic repuke sydrome.

[Clark2008]

86. No. There is no guarantee that the "wealthy" will reinvest in

business - certainly not American business.

Now, if the Republican Party would do something about giving tax breaks to small businesses for business purposes or any business for providing jobs to and for Americans, then we're talking.

But, simply giving the wealthy a personal tax break is not guarantee they will reinvest at home in their business, as we've seen in the past five years.

[blove20]

89. small buisnesses get most of the breaks

[HoosierClarkie]

102. Hey I own a small business and that is not true at all!

[24HRrnr]

116. It is most certainly true

though you have to properly structure your business. Which, apparently, you haven't. Just an unfriendly hint from another small (but growing fast) business.

[HoosierClarkie]

135. Here's a hint for you.

Fuck you freeper! Small businesses do not outsource and do not hire slaves. So I bet your business is growing fast. Good for you.

[TheWatcher]

143. Here's a Friendly Hint For You

[TomInTib]

104. Yeah, because small business got to repatriate billions of dollars

of outsourced overseas profits at a reduced tax rate...what a bunch of leeches!

'Night Blove...life is short, and I am not spending any more of mine on the willfully lobotomized.

[Kali]

111. COUGH gasp

hack ah hack oh excuse me that one was funny. Care to elaborate where in the universe THAT came from?

[riderinthestorm]

114. Prove it.

I'm a small business owner.

Prove this. I really want to know.

[TomInTib]

115. I think that you scared him. Beliefs and facts are often mutually

exclusive.

That was great. Thanks.

[nookiemonster]

110. "tax breaks for the "wealthy" help us stay out of a recession" ???

Hey, share some of that shit that you're smokin, umkay.

Whether or not you believe us, you really need to get educated and quit reciting talking points. Jesus, we're starting to figure them out before the RNC gets them out to you.

The resources are out there. The "proof", as you like to call it. A little curiosity might do wonders for you. Don't ever take anything at face value or accept it as fact because Rush tells you it is. Start with this one:

www.newamericancentury.org


Time to get crackin', my friend. Prepare to be enlightened. Of course, you might want to take it in slowly, it will shake you up a little.


Trust me.

[mirror wall]

134. There is absolutly no evidence that tax breaks for the wealthy do anything

other than destablizie the federal government structure.

Look at what happened in New Orleans. Lack of federal funding delayed improvements to a levy system that may have been able to withstand the storm had the work been completed. This operation was started by Clinton and slashed by Bush.

....after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

To find the rest of that article go here and search for SELA.

Yes, there were failures at the local and state levels as well.. The main failure was in trusting in the capacity of the federal government to send assistance in a timely manner after the storm. Nagin made the bet that he'd order the poor who were unable to evacuate to cram into the superdome where they'd wait for a maximum of two days or so until supplies would show up and evacuations would begin. No one imagined that the "richest and most powerful" country in the world would be lacking in the infrastucture to rescue and protect its own citizens.

In light of the extrodinary failure of the rescue "effort", it is obvious that Nagin ought to have evacuated the entire city. But who amoung us really expected that spectacular of a failure from the Homeland Security office? I mean, isn't that one of the main reasons that people reelected Bush? Because they thought he'd keep them safe and protect them in a time of need? And wasn't that where the funding that could've gone to shoring up the levies went to? So it should be perfectly capable of performing a large scale resue effort right? RIGHT?

Wanna give yourself a good scare? Pretend that the everything that could be done actually was done. Now pretend that instead of a hurricane that progressed upon certain projected areas with several days' worth of advanced warning, the disaster instead is a major terrorist attack (i.e. a dirty bomb or a biological attack). Do you think that the exposure of America's weak infrastructure didn't put an extra-maniacl gleam into many a terrorists' eyes? Do you? Well, are you scared yet? YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD BE.

And now, in the aftermath of one of the worst disasters in the history of this country, and the impedning impact of another, the Republican authorities refuse to revoke tax cuts for the wealthiest 5%. A cut that will cost the federal government billions of dollars, plunging the country even farther into debt and shifting the tax burden even more solidly to the middle class. Yes, there are plenty of nations that now OWN part of American via the vast debt produced by Bush. Doesn't that disturb you on some levels? For instance, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4437179.stm
">China owns quite a large share of our trade debt.

Now, the trade deficit is seperate from the budget gap (the budget surpluss is what people talk about when they recall the halcyon days of the budgetary surpluss we had under Clinton.), although they do influence each other (obviously). And they are both subject to be increased past their already stratospheric levels by wanton spending on tax cuts for the wealthy, a needless war halway accross the globe, and no-bid contracts for the companies that this administration is beholden to.

Take a look at how dramatically that surplus has been squandered:



Yikes.

You know, there's a very famous quote from Gover Norquist (one of the main architechs of the NeoConservative movement):

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

This administration is well on the way to acheiving this goal. Do you feel better now that the shackles of a "big GUBMINT" safety net have been removed from around your neck? Do you really trust in the mad religion of unrestrained capitalism to save you?

Why didn't the many major companies who relied heavily on the port of New Orleans to conduct their business pool their resources together to reinforce the levee system? (Since I don't want to overstress you, I'll tell you: corporations only plan for the future when they absolutly have to. Otherwise they generally look to a goal of maximizing profits in the short and medium terms. This is also why we're seeing such a nasty upsurge in severe weather events. Unchecked pollution in order to produce as much as possible as cheaply as possible has destabilized the global climate,possibly irrevocably.)

Blah, I'm out of steam. I could write a whole book about this. Fortunately, there are already several good books detailing the problems with modern American NeoConservatism. Try reading What's the Matter With Kansas? for a rather simple introduction into how people are duped into the patently false belief that the modern Republican party have anything other than the selfish interests of their corporate patrons at heart.

I'm sure many here can also point you toward good collections of facts. It's hard to tell you where to begin, and the amount of jaw dropping blatant destructions of the ideals of America that have been commited over the course of the past 5 years can easily overwhelm a person (especially if you've been raised in an environment where having a political party is somewhat akin to being loyal to a sports team), so I thought I'd start you off slow.

[Marie26]

76. It's OK to be Republican, but..

Clinton appointed his cronies where they belonged - as ambassadors, not heads of FEMA. Micheal Brown sailed through Congress based on his fake resume, not on any real accomplishments. I don't think most Democrats are arguing that NAgin is 100% free of blame; just that FEMA & the federal gov. were responsible for the majority of failures after the Hurricane hit.

[devilgrrl]

94. "life lessons and a idea of helping the whole...

rather than just whats best for me."

And the current administration is helping "the whole" how? Let us hear your facts.

[TheWatcher]

139. No they do not.

And they Syria nonsense comment was a dead giveaway. You get your beliefs from a steady stream of Goebbels like Propaganda from Rush, Hannity, Fox news, O' Reilly, and the rest of the machine that churns this nonsense out.

FEMA's leader was a failed moron who had a background (Equestrian Horse Judge, or some nonsense to that effect) that had nothing to do with the job he applied for, and he was totally unqualified. He lied on his Resume, and he was exposed for that. Nagin wasn't the one denying Generators and Food into New Orleans, FEMA Was. Nagin wasn't the one who denied the Red Cross access to New Orleans to help people with food, water, and Supplies. FEMA WAS. Nagin didn't turn back a 500 Citizen Flotilla Brade attempting to help with the search and rescue. DFW did that. The fact that the levees were breached on Monday and no help was sent until FRIDAY was not Nagin's doing. That was FEMA and Chertoff and your Boy King.

I literally do not know where to begin with you. You are completely and utterly misinformed.

[stevedeshazer]

6. Maybe, but why do they revert to freeperism?

I'm not so sure, mopaul.

Do they store the pages of DU they've printed out under their mattresses all stuck together?

:evilgrin:

[Dr Fate]

8. I hope they see this- new research on Rush & his gay "mentor"

Including a letter from Norm about AIDS to the LA Times.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Norm Woodruff- and he was Gay, and he did die of AIDS, and he was Rush's close friend & mentor.

Links include Rush's undisputed biography, LA Times, Chicago Tribune & radio trade mags:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2107449

[DelawareValleyDem]

11. Nah,most can't recognize the truth nt

[obxhead]

17. Wow that tat... I've seen better

Halloween masks.

[Armstead]

61. No, most come for something to laugh at get outraged by

Peruse sdome of their websites like Conservative Underground.

They think we're as ridiculous or disgusting as people here see them as.

It's two parallel universes, and there's no way the hard core freepers are ever going to come here with an open enough mind to learn anything otehr than creative ways to say "moonbat."

[kentuck]

85. Let him go folks...

If he can't see what is happening by now, it is just a waste of time. He is part of the problem - not part of the solution. Don't waste your time with him. He ain't worth it. He's a "moran".

[titoresque]

88. you got that right! nt

[blove20]

93. I dont have to fight, to prove im right.

its a belief system

[mopaul]

96. blind faith proves only that you will always be fooled

some folk's belief system tells them 72 virgins await them in paradise, or jesus is coming back after 2 millenia to save us all

[devilgrrl]

97. But liberals have to provide FACTS!!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

[titoresque]

98. Im really just wondering

is it a Christian based belief system? You know....like President Bush? I hardly see this as a fight.

[kentuck]

100. Your belief system sucks...

in my opinion. Just one question to see if you are a conservative: How much is the present deficit, including the costs of the Iraq War, that are off budget?

[TheWatcher]

141. It's not a belief system.

You people don't have an original thought in your heads, and you aren't capable of having an independent thought or thinking for yourselves. You are lock-step robots who repeat what your little generals tell you to think. You are pathetic, loathsome, and you are destroying my country.

And my apologies to the rest of the people in this thread who really wanted to try and reach this twit.

I'm sorry, it's a game for most of them. They don't care. They come here to get a rise, and then copy and paste and show their mouth-breathing brethren over at the other board, and then commence in the Circle Jerk of "Good Huntin' Soldier."

I agree with mopaul. Maybe revolution IS the only answer.

And if this gets ultimately gets to the Streets my friend, you and your little robots better bring more than a belief system to the fray.

I'm through playing nice with you people and trying to reach you. You are waste of time, and waste of humanity.

We WILL take our country back eventually.

Even if we have to go THROUGH every single one of you to do it.

[Bouncy Ball]

155. Um, you said we had to provide facts.

But you don't have to? All you have to do is say "its (sic) a belief system?"

Yeah, right, whatever, Delusionoid. Go back to not teaching those poor kids. You're probably a history teacher and coach and sit behind a newspaper all day, reading the sports section, while the kids pretend to read their history book and answer questions in the back you'll never grade.

[donco6]

99. And a Yankee fan, to boot. eom

[TomInTib]

108. I think he's really KKKarl, having a bit of fun with us...maybe he

can't sleep tonight. Although why KKKarl would be able to sleep on any given night is beyond me. Better living through pharmaceuticals is most likely. They probably send them to him free, because they owe him.

[donheld]

112. Damn right Mo!

On a side note, can you imagine making out with someone who had reagans distorted face tattooed on their body? :puke:

[Kali]

113. He was a special ed teacher in Phoenix AZ for gosh sake

probably a church charter school. Desert View Voice of God Charter School, now accepting all grades and police records. Instructors needed, apply inside.

[Bouncy Ball]

156. YIKES.

:scared:

[flaminbats]

122. Did curiosity kill the cat?

Be thou a spirit of health or goblin damned,
Bring with thee airs from heaven or blasts from hell,
Be thy intents wicked or charitable,
Thou comest in such a questionable shape
Let me not burst in ignorance; but tell
Why thy canonized bones, hearsed in death..

[Dover]

[Dover]

125. Nice picture. I'd have to agree with it too....always thought Reagan was

the pits.

[ladylibertee]

126. Jeepers Creepers,it smells like Freepers!!!! Yall Come Back Now

ya hear?

[Dover]

128. ??????

Did my little joke go over your head?

[ladylibertee]

129. What? Why? Explain it then.I'm sorry.LOL

[Dover]

130. I was making a reference to Mopaul's original post and picture

Get it? Pits?..........sigh.

Well, you were right about the smell at least.

[ladylibertee]

131. Oh I was responding to both.The smell and the original message

that they come here secretly " looking for the truth" I said " Y'all come back now ya here?" do I make sense or was that a dud? :P

[Dover]

132. It must be time for coffee! What we have here is a failure to communicate

And I thought your post was positioned under my 'joke' post and you had misinterpreted it, thinking I was a smelly freeper.

Cofffffffffeeeeeeeeeee.......

[ladylibertee]

133. Oh no you're cool.Here, have a Starbucks om me .LOL

[mopaul]

127. they can't HANDLE the truth, so they accept rush's lies

it's just easier on the brain

[Brewman_Jax]

138. You're quite the optimist

I've met freepers who'd argue that water isn't wet 'cause Rush/Faux News/their freeper family said so. :crazy:

[earth mom]

144. Wow, the freepers sure crawled out of the woodwork didn't they?!

Can't take the heat OR the truth! :eyes:

[mopaul]

145. one did anyway, and he's long gone

but there really are tons of them slithering around up in here. the phrase, 'get a life' comes to mind.

[Brewman_Jax]

147. The scary thought is

that freeper idiot is a teacher! :scared: Freepers are like roaches, for every one you see, there are 100 that are hidden. The future ain't looking so bright right now. :(

[mopaul]

148. he/she claimed to be a teacher anyway

proof? that's the ultimate arguing point for them, prove it.

[Brewman_Jax]

149. Good point

"claims" to be a "teacher." That freeper's a teacher like I'm on the Swedish Bikini team. (BTW, I'm not Swedish. :rofl: )

As to "prove it," I could bring out stacks of info, and all they'd say is, "I never heard about that."

[earth mom]

150. Exactly. That comes to mind as well as 'get a clue'....

I really do think there is something in that kool aid! :crazy: