Are you sick of those old fogers that call you unpatriotic?

[La_Serpiente]

Are you sick of all those old fogers that call you unpatriotic? This guy on CSpan, Ivo Daalder, is surely getting it from all the old conservative voters. This is the kind of crap that all the anti-war people got during the buildup to the war and I've had enough of it already.

[FlashHarry]

1. You mean 'fogies?'

Actually, the older folks I've talked to--even the Republicans--tend to be seriously distrustful of Bush.

[philosophie_en_rose]

2. Better than Fake-riotic

Freeper patriotism is just an excuse to stop thinking.

[havocmom]

14. "Fake-riotic" is a great term!

Would be great to get that one out into common use!

And I have more problems with young people critizing my stance on the issues, but then, I am one of the old-folgers. That site which provided the download of enlistment forms was sure a big help! Amazing how fast a big-mouthed, flag-on-the-antenna chicken hawks settle down when you hand them those papers! LOL Also, since getting letters from buds in Iraq, begging for food and relief, the louts are getting fewer and further between.

The chicken hawks roared cuz they thought they were the majority. Like all school-yard bullies, they quiet down when they find out their roar is hollow and nobody is afraid.

[rasputin1952]

18. Wonderfully written...

eloquent yet brief and to the point.

I, too, have offered enlistment papers and free rides to the recruiters of their choice. I have yet to be taken up on the offer. Those that have never experienced servicelife are misinformed and mouthy. There are few who have seen the ravages of war, that wish to return to those days of fear and horror.

I believe I will take up the "Fake-riotic" mantle, and add it to those I use in attempting to expose these false heroes for what they are.

[sangh0]

3. Seniors are more likely to oppose the invasion of Iraq

and less likely to support Bush* compared younger people

[liberalhistorian]

4. There have always been people like that,

who equate patriotism with blind adherence and obedience to the state, no matter what, and who consider anyone who doesn't totally toe the line to be a threat to the security of the state. I'm sick to death of them, too, but they've always existed.

I remember when I was at Kent State and a member of the May 4 Task Force, we were ALWAYS dealing with the hard-right American Legion people and others like them, who would sometimes even throw things at us during our rallies and speeches and other activities.

[JewelDigger]

5. Well, if it makes you feel any better

I work with an 'old foger' who recently out-of-the-blue told me "this country is going to hell. Ford just announced more job cuts - people are losing jobs all over the place and 'they' want to spend $87 billion on Iraq." He continued on that "I used to think the people that were saying no to Iraq and no to the president were unpatriotic, but not anymore, they were right."

The tide has turned. There's nothing 'positive' on the horizon - although I wish there were - and so more and more people will rethink their views of it all and will realize it's not 'unpatriotic' to disagree with the policies of one's government. It's just common sense.

[Maine-i-acs]

7. Nothing positive?

The tide of public opinion is turning. You state a definite case that is surely being repeated nationwide. That's positive enough for me to get out of bed each morning!

[JewelDigger]

13. You misunderstood what I was saying

(or perhaps I didn't state it well). What I meant with "There's nothing 'positive' on the horizon" refers to what the general population is beginning to realize about our country overall. We have LOTS of BIG problems and there aren't any solutions on the horizon...just more problems. Under this administration it's all been 'bad news'

- Massive loss of jobs all over the country
- A budget surplus has turned into a massive deficit
- We've got our service people in Iraq and Afghanistan (and people are starting to ask Why? and For how Long? and For how much?)
- A deteriorating infrastructure (that's is MUY Expensive to maintain and has been neglected far too long)
- The financial scandels of Enron, et al that have NEVER been adequately addressed
- A declining dollar
- A looming energy/oil crisis (peak oil) and nothing being done to address it (quite the opposite, government gives tax incentives to people who buy the LEAST fuel-efficient cars instead of the opposite)
- etc., etc.

Yes, it is a VERY POSITIVE thing that the tide of public opinion is finally turning, but that's really only where the 'story can begin'. There's still all of those issues and problems that need to be solved/addressed. Once that starts happening, MOST people will breathe a collective sigh of relief (and all the people who supported CAUSING/Continuing these problems can crawl back into the big, dark, slimey hole that they came from - hopefully never to return).

[Maine-i-acs]

16. You misunderstood what I was saying

I'll be the last to say that everything's positive. In fact there's more negatives going on that I can sneak into a post. Yes, the situation right now is grim indeed.

I am just clinging to a small silver lining here - more and more people are slowly waking up, smelling the coffee, and realizing what a grave mistake it was to put our blind faith in our Appointed (not elected) Leaders.

[Brucey]

6. I don't even get what they mean?

They think calling me unpatriotic is an insult, but I consider it to be a compliment. Patriotism is empty. It is superficial with no content. It has no substance. Why should I care about a particular city, county, state, or country more than another without taking into account the kind of government, the policies, and the people who live there? Why should I blindly believe that where I live is better than anyplace else? It seems so flat and disconnected to me. I care about people and the environment and civil rights everywhere. When my government is wrong and harmful, I don't like them. I am an America hater. When some other government is wrong and harmful, then I hate them. I am unpatriotic. I never had school spirit either. And I walk right up to fire hydrants that other dogs have pissed on. Patriotism seems stupid to me.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. I don't care what they call me. Fuck 'em.

Here's a quote I ran across recently that's very apropos...

"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched." - H.L. Mencken

[spindoctor]

9. I could care less

Should I really be bothered by people who use patriotism as an argument? Call me what you will. If unpatriotic defines (in their world) being free of mind, then I will be proud to declare myself an unpatriot.

It is time to take the value out of the word. It has been abused too often.

[cmd]

10. From an old ladies point of view

Most of the negative responses I had when I was demonstrating last winter were from younger men. The most positive responses were from veterans and women.

[SOS]

11. Patriotism is not jingoism

patriotism: Love of and devotion to one's country.

nationalism: deovotion to the interests of one's country.

jingoism: ÊExtreme nationalism characterized by belligerent foreign policy and chauvinistic patriotism.

People of all political leaning can be patriots. Bush and his gang are jingos.

[dbt]

12. Been there, heard that

Back in the days of Spiro Agnew, I was a "nattering nabob of negativism." That was a period of time when "democracy (could) not be left to people in the streets." (Yes, that was an actual quote from the Nixxon Administration.)

It was "America, love it or leave it" and "my country right or wrong" and yada yada yada ad absurdum.

It ain't working any better today than it did in the Viet Nam Error. Maybe it has something to do with "old men starting wars and sending young men to fight them?"

WWWGD?
(What Would Wavy Gravy Do?)
:hippie:
dbt

[eleny]

15. Just to make you feel better....

Recently, an elderly woman in line behind me at the grocery store started a conversation with the younger woman behind her. She asserted that the country was struggling because of the greed of the administration in Washington. And she worried for the young people who won't have advantages they should living in America.

Btw, I'm 57 and approachuing the old fogey stage. I'm a way left leaning Dem. Hang in there!

[TNOE]

17. How do you all handle

being called a "commie" - I get that quite often.

[rasputin1952]

19. I got that one too...

LOL, that is what I did, I L'edOL.

Anyone who would call me a "commie", has no idea what they are walking into.

I spent my time in hell. I do not wish that upon anyone.

I ask them, "What have you done for the country"?
"Have you: been in the service?; sacrificed any of YOUR time in defending the nation?. Have you EVER volunteered at the VA hospital or Vet's home?"

I hold my love for my country and the citizens close to my heart. I do not cover my fears by wrapping myself in the flag, I move forward, into them. I dispell my fears with knowledge and passion. I have no time for armchair generals that couldn't find the time to care whether their fellow citizens could eat, sleep or be warm during the winter. I have more patriotism in my little toe, than those bombastic assholes that create fear and hate. I am a patriot, and I will not allow my country to be taken over by a bunch of privledged "C" students that care more about ensuring their own wealth over the bodies of those sworn to uphold the Constitution.


Holy Crap!....sorry didn't mean to rant! I just hate the "Fake-riots", they are hypocrites, and deserve nothing but scorn.

:kick:

[TNOE]

21. Totally appreciate the rant!

That is one word that I find myself just walking away from, don't know why though. Appreciate your replies.

[rasputin1952]

23. Funny thing about RWnuts...

when you look them in the eyes, and speak forcefully, (not threateningly), they melt away back into the swamp they dragged themselves ouot of. They cannot counter the truth.

:kick:

[havocmom]

20. Have subscription forms for Readers' Digest handy to pass out?

(Do they still run that page about increasing one's word power?)

Anyone still using the old 'commie' canard needs a better vocabulary. Perhaps helping them attain such would enable them to be less dogmatic. As they learn to use better communication tools they might end the frustration of being devoid of any means to express their vague uneasiness...///silly psycho-babble off///

[PapaClay]

22. Nobody's got in my face yet.....

But when they do, I imagine I will smile; show them my blue ID card with one hand; and flip them off with the other. :smoke: