"My faith will not allow me to vote for Democrats"

[thefloyd]

A fairly good college friend of mine (fundie) has become frustrated with Shrub. I can tell he wants to vote democrat but cannot seem to get over the hump. The subject line speaks volumes.... How do people recommend attacking His line of thought?

[dorktv]

1. Proverbs, new testament-Mark, Luke and Acts especially.

[dorktv]

4. Oh and repeat the Sermon on the Mount and ask

this friend how can anyone ignore the call that our Savior issued?

[DIKB]

9. This is the best idea.

It sums up everything that is christ. He tears down the old testament, and their barbaric views, and gives clearer ones. It was a monumental speech. Anyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery, Jesus SAID THIS !!!!!!! He never preached about homosexuality though. . . which do you think was more important ? If something is important to me, I say so.

[dorktv]

17. And the Savior said so much more then just the divorces stuff.

He also said a lot about helping each other and being peaceful.

[WCGreen]

27. That is why they call it the new testament....

It was a complete break from the old...

But the good old boys gathered together by constantine decided to keep the old, throw out a lot of the new and end it with a vision of apoclypse....

I always felt American Christianity is 90% old testament fire and brimstone, 9% Armageddon and just enough Jesus sprinkled into to keep the publicity good....

[WePurrsevere]

19. Yes! That and what Jesus called the two great commandments...

it's all about LOVE... Love of "God", Love of others and even love of one's self (since if you must love your neighbor as yourself then it follows that you must love yourself as well.)

Based on Matthew 22:35-40, Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-28:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38 KJV)

"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22:39-40 KJV)

I'd suggest that your friend get a "Red letter Bible" (this is where the words of Jesus are all in red. It's easier to see exactly what HE supposedly taught that way. Jesus warned about false teachers perverting what he was saying so if your friend is truly a Christian and not a follower of another saying they're "teaching the word of God" then he should go straight to the horses mouth so to speak, listen with his soul, not his fears and then ask... IF Jesus were alive today and an American citizen who would Jesus, the teacher of love, helping the poor, tolerance of others, etc be more likely to vote for? Christians who truly want to follow the way of Jesus really need to stop listening to others telling them what *they* WANT Jesus to say and read what HIS words to see what *HE* said.

[blondeatlast]

43. And Matthew slams the hypocrites who use their profession of "faith"

for their own ends; a classic Fundie tactic.

[Skittles]

2. ask him how his faith allows him to vote for lying, thieving, warmongerers

ask him that

[gmoney]

3. Is this "faith" he speaks of Catholicism?

If so, just point out that people like Bush, Pat Robertson, and other fundies view Catholicism as an evil cult -- hand him a Chick tract if necessary. :)

I for one have never much held with the teachings of Cathol...

[rzemanfl]

5. This is not a "a line of thought" it is about FAITH- which is the

irrational belief that an invisible being influences events. As long as this person is unwilling to think rationally they are not going to be influenced by rational argument.

[nonconformist]

6. His faith preaches peace, love, and helping the poor.

Ask him which party holds those values closer - Republicans or Democrats?

[DIKB]

7. You could slap him with some sense.

NOWHERE does the bible specifically mention abortion, Nowhere did Jesus preach against homosexuality at all. If he has a hard time, make him find scriptures in the new testament that are related to those things that are so important to him.

Then have him find scriptures (once again in the new testament) about helping the less fortunate, and teachings of peace. If he seeks to emulate christ, he should focus on doing what christ did, NOT on what Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell teach.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." - Which party caters to the absurdedly rich ? Which party is trying to kill the estate tax, SOLELY to benefit the rich.

"Render unto caeser what is caesar's, and unto god what is god's." - Which party is so DEATHLY opposed to taxes.

"When a man strikes you, offer him your other cheek." - Which party seeks out war ?

[Kahuna]

25. If the guy reads the "beattitudes" and ten commandments, his

choice and conscience should be clear.

[KT2000]

8. everyone who voted for bush

has blood on their hand - all the people who have died needlessly because of his policies and decisions.
Exactly what is the hump this person has to get over??

[DIKB]

13. gay marriage and abortion.

those are the issues that christians have the biggest problems with.

yet, you could argue that "god allows" us to have the choice to follow or not. how presumptuous would anyone be to deny and outlaw these things, based on their interpretation ? That would be tantamount to BLASPHEMY. Presuming to know BETTER than God himself ?!?!?

If God didn't make these his BIGGEST priorities (not in the sermon of the mount OR in the 10 commandments) Then it is blasphemy to make those the biggest issues for the republicans.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. No one is forcing him into a same sex marriage. Seems he likes his

right to makes choices, but he doesn't want the same for others. Self serving self righteous jerk.

[thefloyd]

36. I agree

I constantly tell him people can do what they want...None of my business and none of his

[bmbmd]

38. You are absolutely correct.

The problem with abortion is not abortion, it is unwanted pregnancies. I hold guys like him personally responsible for every abortion committed because of their head-in-the-sand attitudes about birth control and sex education. If the church was doing her job, their would be no abortions because every pregnancy would be planned.
Gay marriage is a boogey man conundrum dreamed up by zealots to stimulate political action from the flock. I know no one is interested, but the scriptures in Romans 1:31 used to inflame the faithful are continued as a single thought in Romans 2:1 as a plea for personal responsibility, not a threat to gays. Gay hating shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the scriptures and the mission of Jesus.

[pamela]

10. Buy him a subscription to Sojourners Magazine. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

11. His faith should not allow him to vote for Republicans.

When will people smarten up and not be dissuaded by the tired and lame wedge issues of abortion and gays that the Republicans dust off every election cycle but clearly have no intention of changing? Perhaps voters might want to consider OTHER issues to vote on, eh?

[thefloyd]

37. agreed

He never mentions greed

[Spinzonner]

12. Tell him to go ahead and keep following Bushlebub

He has to choose between good and evil, not equivocate

[Kurovski]

14. If he's concerned about abortion, ask him when Bush actually

ever said he would end abortion and explained how he planned on doing that? What is the promise and the plan?

Then tell him that no Republican will ever end abortion because to do so would spell the end of the party.

The majority of Americans ( R's included) want abortion to be legal, despite their personal view.

Laura and Barbara Bush are two such Republican women.

[thefloyd]

39. I ask

him how bombing innocents in Iraq is not "killing innocent life"

[salin]

50. ask him what he thinks what would happen if either of the twins

got pregnant out of wedlock? Or a daughter of DeLay. Heck Bob Barr (former repub. congressman - and big "for public consumption" pro-lifer) DROVE his wife to get an abortion.

Ask if he really believes that these politicians want to end abortion (including availability for themselves and their children), or if perhaps they use the issue to get more votes?

[blondeatlast]

45. This at least gives them pause, if it obviously doesn't fully convert them

Simply ask them what the Republicans have actively done to stop abortion.

I then gently suggest that it is a winning issue for them--as long as it NEVER SUCCEEDS.

OTOH, I work with a smarter degree of fundies than many but it does plant the seed of doubt.

[Road Scholar]

15. Ask him how he ever came to vote for the Anti-Christ. nt

[rman]

16. faith in Mammon

"You can't serve both God and Mammon" -- Jesus Christ

Mammon
"Riches are called by the name of a devil, namely Mammon, for Mammon is the name of a devil,
by which name riches are called according to the Syrian tongue."
"Mammon of iniquity", "goods unjustly gotten"
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580b.htm

[fasttense]

18. Boy is he stupid. Did he ever really read what Jesus had to say?

Or did he just get it from some preacher. Skip all the other stuff in the bible and read what Jesus actually said and you will know Jesus was a liberal Jewish carpenter.

[thefloyd]

40. He actually is very well read

in the scriptures thus his ability to think about switching sides.
Actually, He was very involved with Campus Crusade for Christ. So was I but I finally found out I have Attention Deficit Disorder and found my medical jesus RITALIN

[Dulcinea]

20. Your friend needs to read the Beatitudes.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, they shall be called children of God."

And so on.

[punpirate]

21. Sounds a bit as if there's some...

... excuse-making in the works there. His faith won't allow him to vote for Democrats, fine.

Tell him, though, that if he dislikes what he sees happening around him, and if his faith caused him to vote for the people responsible, then, it's time for him to reexamine the nature of his faith. If he can't do that, he must live with his share of the responsibility for what's happening.

Perhaps the most sensible thing, short of any real epiphany on his part, would be to advise him not to vote.

Cheers.

[thefloyd]

41. I totally agree

about the excuse making.

[liberal N proud]

22. He needs to stop drinking the kool-aid

Do some churches put something in the Communion wine? Which in many most evangelical churches is grape juice like a thimble full of wine is going to corrupt you.

[Mutley]

23. If he's worried about issues such as

abortion and gay marriage, then tell him that Republicans don't really care about these issues. They only used these issues to dupe the Christians/Catholics into voting for them. Has * said a word about these things since the election? Not to my knowledge he hasn't. Ask your friend why he thinks that is. Oh, and make sure you let him know that the abortion rate is much higher under W than it ever was under Clinton.

[Kahuna]

24. Tell him: Jesus was a liberal.

nt

[liveoaktx]

26. Torture and War killing innocents-his faith allows this?

[leesa]

28. He has a very peculiar faith that insists he vote for thieves and murderer

[July]

29. The propaganda has been successful.

Democrats have been demonized and marginalized to the extent that people actually believe that they are doing something immoral to vote for a Democrat. That's why we keep hearing about abortion and prayer in schools -- to draw a line between being on God's side and being on the "other guy's" side.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. Explore with him whether he feels that his religion endorses a particular

political party, since 'America' and 'Republican' and 'Democrat' are not listed in the Bible anywhere...

Or is it because he feels 'litmus test' issues for him (abortion) are perceived the wrong way by Democrats?

[Mend]

31. My faith does not allow me to vote republican

and I never have, not once. My faith is my conscience.

[zulchzulu]

32. Simple: Billy Graham admitted he is a Democrat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham

He "admits" it here:

http://www.bible.ca/cr-Baptist-Can.htm

There are plenty of reasons to be a REAL Christian and a Democrat, but that's a start.

[thefloyd]

35. I told him

Graham was a democrat and he did not believe me

[jackster]

33. send him to Sojourners....

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=about_us.home

real Christians teaching Christ

[mitchum]

42. The pulpit-dwelling grifters he obeys won't let him vote for Democrats

faith has nothing to do with it

[Opusnone]

44. VOTE INDEPENDENT (at least not repuke)

[OnionPatch]

46. My belief is that

You cannot end abortion by outlawing it. I would like to see abortion eliminated in our society. But outlawing it will not do it. Only by changing minds and curing many of the ills of society will anyone end abortion. You cannot legislate morality. If he wants to end abortion I don't think he has the right to do it by sending the government and law to enforce his will. Many Democrats I know feel the same way I do. Just because we don't want to arrest people for abortion doesn't mean we condone it. It's a moral issue that the government has no place in, IMO. Especially not when society's opinions on it are so diversified. It's just not a black and white issue that most people can agree on and it's wrong to enforce laws that would seem totalitarian to so many people.

[blm]

47. Send him the Beatitudes. Ask him how many times God chose to speak

about abortion and homosexuality, and compare to how many times he spoke to the virtue of aiding the poor and against avarice and greed.

[Tower]

48. His "faith" is in money and hatred. He apparently doesn't know

anything about Jesus, or he'd be disgusted by Bush's anti-poor, war-for-profit policies.

[salin]

49. suggest he look at policies and outcomes

rather than fall for words which are empty.

The abortion rate has climbed under Bush and was lower under Clinton (use this one, as it is often behind such sentiments). Why? Not words or rhetoric - but economics.

There has been an increase in public opinion of acceptance of Civil Unions under bush? Why? Because the view pushed as absolutist and no compromise has shifted public opinion to be more sympathetic to the issue and view civil unions as a compromise position.

Gently suggest the old adage that power corrupts, and absolute power (three branches of govt) corrupts absolutely. That it appears if one looks at bush, and DeLay (power in the house), and Frist - they are more motivated by enriching themselves and their friends (eg covetting more money) and have guided legislation to do this, while they USE religious rhetoric to maintain power, but legislate next to nothing that is based on the teachings of christ. The degree to which they promote monied interests (that also enrich themselves) makes it appear that they daily violate the first commandment - by having elevated money as something to be worshiped and pursued - over God.

[Walt Starr]

51. "Only Satanism will not allow a person to vote Demoratic"

Time to re-evaluate the tenents of their faith.