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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:07 AM
Original message
Don't let the NEW PRISONER ABUSE SCANDAL get drowned out by Rita
Edited on Sat Sep-24-05 11:08 AM by BurtWorm
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,1108972,00.html

The U.S. Army has launched a criminal investigation into new allegations of serious prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan made by a decorated former Captain in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division, an Army spokesman has confirmed to TIME. The claims of the Captain, who has not been named, are in part corroborated by statements of two sergeants who served with him in the 82nd Airborne; the allegations form the basis of a report from Human Rights Watch obtained by TIME and due to be released in the next few days (Since this story first went online, the organization has decided to put out its report; it can be found here). Senate sources tell TIME that the Captain has also reported his charges to three senior Republican senators: Majority Leader Bill Frist, Armed Services Committee chairman John Warner and John McCain, a former torture victim in Vietnam. A Senate Republican staffer familiar with both the Captain and his allegations told TIME he appeared "extremely credible."

The new allegations center around systematic abuse of Iraqi detainees by men of the 82nd Airborne at Camp Mercury, a forward operating base located near Fallujah, the scene of a major uprising against the U.S. occupation in April 2004, according to sources familiar with the report and accounts given by the Captain, who is in his mid-20s, to Senate staff. Much of the abuse allegedly occurred in 2003 and 2004, before and during the period the Army was conducting an internal investigation into the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, but prior to when the abuses at Abu Ghraib became public. Other alleged abuses described in the Human Rights report occurred at Camp Tiger, near Iraq's border with Syria, and previously in Afghanistan. In addition, the report details what the Captain says was his unsuccessful effort over 17 months to get the attention of military superiors. Ultimately he approached the Republican senators.

The Human Rights Watch report—as well as accounts given to Senate staff—describe officers as aware of the abuse but routinely ignoring or covering it up, amid chronic confusion over U.S. military detention policies and whether or not the Geneva Convention applied. The Captain is quoted in the report describing how military intelligence personnel at Camp Mercury directed enlisted men to conduct daily beatings of prisoners prior to questioning; to subject detainees to strenuous forced exercises to the point of unconsciousness; and to expose them to extremes of heat and cold—all methods designed to produce greater cooperation with interrogators. Non-uniformed personnel—apparently working for the Central Intelligence Agency, according to the soldiers—also interrogated prisoners. The interrogators were out of view but not out of earshot of the soldiers, who overheard what they came to believe was abuse.

Specific instances of abuse described in the Human Rights Watch report include severe beatings, including one incident when a soldier allegedly broke a detainee's leg with a metal bat. Others include prisoners being stacked in human pyramids (unlike the human pyramids at Abu Ghraib, the prisoners at Camp Mercury were clothed); soldiers administering blows to the face, chest and extremities of prisoners; and detainees having their faces and eyes exposed to burning chemicals, being forced into stress positions for long periods leading to unconsciousness and having their water and food withheld.



From the HRW Report:

Leadership Failure
Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division

http://hrw.org/reports/2005/us0905/1.htm#_Toc115161399

When the Abu Ghraib scandal broke in April 2004, senior officials in the Bush administration claimed that severe prisoner abuse was committed only by a few, rogue, poorly trained reserve personnel at a single facility in Iraq. But since then, hundreds of other cases of abuse from Iraq and Afghanistan have come to light, described in U.S. government documents, reports of the International Committee of the Red Cross, media reports, legal documents filed by detainees, and from detainee accounts provided to human rights organizations, including Human Rights Watch. 3 And while the military has launched investigations and prosecutions of lower-ranking personnel for detainee abuse, in most cases the military has used closed administrative hearings to hand down light administrative punishments like pay reductions and reprimands, instead of criminal prosecutions before courts-martial. The military has made no effort to conduct a broader criminal investigation focusing on how military command might have been involved in reported abuse, and the administration continues to insist that reported abuse had nothing to do with the administration’s decisions on the applicability of the Geneva Conventions or with any approved interrogation techniques.

These soldiers’ firsthand accounts provide further evidence contradicting claims that abuse of detainees by U.S. forces was isolated or spontaneous. The accounts here suggest that the mistreatment of prisoners by the U.S. military is even more widespread than has been acknowledged to date, including among troops belonging to some of the best trained, most decorated, and highly respected units in the U.S. Army. They describe in vivid terms abusive interrogation techniques ordered by Military Intelligence personnel and known to superior officers.

Most important, they demonstrate that U.S. troops on the battlefield were given no clear guidance on how to treat detainees. When the administration sent these soldiers to war in Afghanistan, it threw out the rules they were trained to uphold (embodied in the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation). Instead, President Bush said only that detainees be treated "humanely," not as a requirement of the law but as policy. And no steps were taken to define what humane was supposed to mean in practice.4 Once in Iraq, their commanders demanded that they extract intelligence from detainees without telling them what was allowed and what was forbidden. Yet when abuses inevitably followed, the administration blamed only low-ranking soldiers instead of taking responsibility.

These soldiers' accounts show how the administration's refusal to insist on adherence to a lawful, long-recognized, and well-defined standard of treatment contributed to the torture of prisoners. It also shows how that policy betrayed the soldiers in the field—sowing confusion in the ranks, exposing them to legal sanction when abuses occurred, and placing in an impossible position all those who wished to behave honorably....

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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick, I'm trying to keep an eye on this as well. n/t
PB
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Account of Sergeant A, 82nd Airborne Division

Sergeant A served in Afghanistan from September 2002 to March 2003 and in Iraq from August 2003 to April 2004. Human Rights Watch spoke with him on four separate occasions in July and August 2005.


http://hrw.org/reports/2005/us0905/2.htm#_Toc115161401

In retrospect what we did was wrong, but at the time we did what we had to do. Everything we did was accepted, everyone turned their heads.

We got to the camp in August <2003> and set up. We started to go out on missions right away. We didn’t start taking PUCs until September. Shit started to go bad right away. On my very first guard shift for my first interrogation that I observed was the first time I saw a PUC pushed to the brink of a stroke or heart attack. At first I was surprised, like, this is what we are allowed to do? This is what we are allowed to get away with? I think the officers knew about it but didn’t want to hear about it. They didn’t want to know it even existed. But they had to.

On a normal day I was on shift in a PUC tent. When we got these guys we had them sandbagged and zip tied, meaning we had a sandbag on their heads and zip ties on their hands. We took their belongings and tossed them in the PUC tent. We were told why they were there. If I was told they were there sitting on IEDs we would fuck them up, put them in stress positions or put them in a tent and withhold water.

The “Murderous Maniacs” was what they called us at our camp because they knew if they got caught by us and got detained by us before they went to Abu Ghraib then it would be hell to pay. They would be just, you know, you couldn’t even imagine. It was sort of like I told you when they came in it was like a game. You know, how far could you make this guy goes before he passes out or just collapses on you. From stress positions to keeping them up fucking two days straight, whatever. Deprive them of food water, whatever.

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. And, of course, it's all in retaliation for 9/11
Serves those Iraqis right for flying planes into the WTC.

They also planted Monica Lewinsky in the Clinton White House, y'know.

:sarcasm:
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. "People would just volunteer just to get their frustrations out. "
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't know any Americans who' d behave like this. We're too civilized.
Edited on Sat Sep-24-05 11:27 AM by BurtWorm
:sarcasm:
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. NY Times: 3 in 82nd Airborne Say Beating Iraqi Prisoners Was Routine
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/politics/24abuse.html?pagewanted=print

By ERIC SCHMITT



The abuses reportedly took place between September 2003 and April 2004, before and during the investigations into the notorious misconduct at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. Senior Pentagon officials initially sought to characterize the scandal there as the work of a rogue group of military police soldiers on the prison's night shift. Since then, the Army has opened more than 400 inquiries into detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan, and punished 230 enlisted soldiers and officers.

The trial of a soldier charged in an investigation into Abu Ghraib, Pfc. Lynndie R. England, continued Friday in Fort Hood, Tex.

In the newest case, the human rights organization interviewed three soldiers: one sergeant who said he was a guard and acknowledged abusing some prisoners at the direction of military intelligence personnel; another sergeant who was an infantry squad leader who said he had witnessed some detainees' being beaten; and the captain who said he had seen several interrogations and received regular reports from noncommissioned officers on the ill treatment of detainees.

In one incident, the Human Rights Watch report states, an off-duty cook broke a detainee's leg with a metal baseball bat. Detainees were also stacked, fully clothed, in human pyramids and forced to hold five-gallon water jugs with arms outstretched or do jumping jacks until they passed out, the report says. "We would give them blows to the head, chest, legs and stomach, and pull them down, kick dirt on them," one sergeant told Human Rights Watch researchers during one of four interviews in July and August. "This happened every day."

...
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Sent it to Hellerstein - just so he'd know Myers can't keep this quiet!
HONORABLE ALVIN K. HELLERSTEIN
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK


Chambers
Room 1050
United States Courthouse
500 Pearl Street
New York, New York 10007
Tel: (212) 805-0152
Fax: (212) 805-7942
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. "...humane means it’s okay to rough someone up and to do physical harm."
Edited on Sat Sep-24-05 11:35 AM by BurtWorm
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/us0905/4.htm#_Toc115161403


<In Afghanistan,> I thought that the chain on command all the way up to the National Command Authority14 had made it a policy that we were going to interrogate these guys harshly.

<The actual standard was> “we’re not going to follow the Geneva Conventions but we are going to treat you humanely.” Well, what does humane mean? To me humane means I can kind of play with your mind, but I cannot hit you or do anything that is going to cost you permanent physical damage. To <another officer I spoke with> humane means it’s okay to rough someone up and to do physical harm. Not to break bones or anything like that but to do physical harm as long as you’re not humiliating him, which was the way he put it. We’ve got people with different views of what humane means and there’s no Army statement that says this is the standard for humane treatment for prisoners to Army officers. Army officers are left to come up with their own definition of humane treatment.

I don’t know for sure <how high up the hierarchy responsibility for the abusive treatment lies>. What I know is that it’s widespread enough that it’s an officer problem. It’s at least an officer problem. You make the standard, and that is what goes up to the executive branch. You communicate the standard, that’s when it’s somewhat the executive branch, but then it comes more into the officer branch, and enforcing the standard is the officer branch… And in the Schlesinger report15 it even says that when the President made the decision that al-Qaeda wasn’t going to be covered by the Geneva Conventions, there was a clear danger that it was going to undermine the culture in the United States Army that enforces strict adherence to the law of land warfare. That’s in the Schlesinger report.

But anyway, the President makes that decision, and decides that we’re not going to cover them by the Geneva Conventions, which according to the letter of the law, I think there’s a strong argument for that…. <But> then that lack of standard migrates throughout the Army. It filters throughout the Army, so that now the standard, this convoluted, “You’ll know what’s right when you see it,” filters through the whole Army.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. Kick
Don't let the protest drown it out either, okay?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kick!!!!
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Maybe someone else could kick this?
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. This seems more a smoke screen to hide, say, Able Danger.
Two guys SAY there is a pattern of abuse... All Rummy has to do is say it ain't so and the press will lap it up.

Besides there are already a bunch of photos under COURT ORDER to be released and yet still not released and what coverage does that get ... NONE.

The Plame game is far worse than to CONs than a bunch of people who are already disliked being mistreated -- egregiously mistreated or however mistreated -- they won't but raise their collective eyebrows for Iraqis.

Plame and Able Danger are about US.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Are you seriously arguing that this is a smoke screen?
Seriously? This isn't scandalous enough of itself? It's being totally ignored right here on DU. How can something ignored by leftists act as a smokescreen in the media?
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'm serious. It is my opinion that this will NOT destroy CONs.
It should be enough to change CON supporters, but I deem that it is not. Just my opinion.

It does take DUers time. It is not being ignored, certainly not totally ignored. It does take time.

I don't have enough time to keep abreast. Wish I did. I'd be an expert on everything here.

Because this took my time, some other topic will die. That's the smokescreen to me.

Don't get me wrong. This is important. But, just as an add-in a pile-on item when the CONs start to doubt their leader's veracity.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. In my opinion, talk of smokescreens can be a smokescreen.
We ought to be able to multi-task. Prisoner abuse was an outrage when there were photos of it on the cover of Newsweek. Isn't it still an outrage, even without the photos? Read these reports--unless you have something more important to do. They add further evidence that torture is Bushist policy. Not that that's such a big surprise, but here are NCOs saying what no one would say during Abu Ghraib: the rot begins at the top, when the dipshit in chief was told by his lawyers what he wanted to hear: he didn't have to abide by the Geneva convention. If we were subject to the ICC, the smoking gun or the star witness testimony that got Bush convicted might be among these papers.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. And, you and I talk of just that. But, it could just be..
..that I'm wrong, and you're right. I don't know which of us is more certain, nor more correctly certain. I gave my reasons which you did not address. Perhaps for yourself, outrage trumps reason. And, should you find that condeming smoking gun, I would stand in awe.

I think the lie is much bigger. Too big to be digested. From the Washington Times story of WH pedofilia until now, these sexualized torture scenes, the damned lie is too big.

If you can make it work, I hope and pray you do.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. The alternative is to ignore this. That's not an alternative.
A very interesting essay by Billmon sums up my feelings about what this development means.



http://billmon.org/archives/002188.html


I came across the Nation article on nonwthatsfuckedup.com, which meant I had to take a good, hard look at the psychopathic side of the American spirit, and consider its implications not just for the war on terrorism and the occupation of Iraq, but its role in the emergence of an authentically fascist movement in American politics, one which feeds on violence and the glorification of violence, and which has found an audience not just in the U.S. military (where I think -- or at least hope -- it's still a relatively small fringe) but in the culture as a whole.

I don't have time at the moment to explain fully why and how this peek at the banality of evil changed my thinking, although I'll try to cover it in a future post. Suffice it to say that my visit to nowthatsfuckedup.com was a reminder of the genocidal skeletons hanging in the American closet. It left me with the conviction -- or at least an intuitive suspicion -- that an open-ended war in Iraq (or in the broader Islamic world) will bring nothing but misery and death to them, and creeping (or galloping) authoritarianism to us.

We have to get out -- not because withdrawal will head off civil war in Iraq or keep the country from fallling under Iran's control (it won't) but because the only way we can stop those things from happening is by killing people on a massive scale, probably even more massive than the tragedy we supposedly would be trying to prevent....
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. This is not a smokescreen...
This is the scandal the White House is truly afraid of, why else would they so desperately try to keep the additional Abu Ghraib photos from being released. If the American public find out what is really going on in these "prisons" the administration is finished.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I disagree.
The photos are embarassing. But, the CONs will surmise that showing the photos will make war matters worse, so they are perfectly fine in not showing the photos.

The admin is not "desperately" hiding these photos, they are overtly hiding these photos.

Even if they do get out, many CONs will be convinced to not look at the photos.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kicked and nominated. nt
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