are you happy with ANSWER letting everyone talk about their issue?

[LSK]

Poll question: are you happy with ANSWER letting everyone talk about their issue?

[gademocrat7]

1. this is about the protest to end the war

not Answer's issues.

[Cassandra]

33. If they can't manage to relate their issues...

to either ending the Iraq war or Bush's failed presidency, they shouldn't bring them up.

[wellstone dem]

2. Should have had an option for "outraged"

[skooooo]

3. I'm here to speak for all the kitty cats in the world today!

They want tuna! They deserve tuna!

Tun-NA Tu-NA Tu-NA!

[Chimichurri]

5. hahaha

[TankLV]

56. Free the MUMMIES! Free the MUMMIES!

Aren't they dead already?

Haven't they been dead for - oh - THOUSANDS OF YEARS?

I never knew people cared so much for them!

That's my "favorite" chant!

[patdem]

66. I find that comment really ignorant,...what do you know about Mumia?

I know nothing and do not care, and say nothing..but you know nothing and chant foolish crap!

[TankLV]

69. Gee - really?! You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it bit you on the ass!

I never knew about him!

:sarcasm:

It doesn't belong in an anti war rally.

It makes us all look like idiots.

Gee, ya think maybe we should "FOCUS" on our goal?

Naw!

[patdem]

86. Well, when the people who organized the rally think otherwise..your

dripping sarcasm pic means nothing...they have the right to speak...and have given you a platform for your speach....sorry..that is how it works, darling.

Edit...BTW darling =:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

93. Riiiiight "honey"!

[patdem]

95. TankLV..you send me MAIL but I cannot answer??

Are you a coward too besides being sarcastic and wanting the whole ball of wax for yourself?? You MAILED me..and I replied..but seems you refuse MAIL...I WOULD NEVER MAIL SOMEONE ULESS I WAS WILLING TO RECEIVE MAIL...

[architect359]

72. What? The post was talking about freeing the mummies

...not Mumia. I think its a joke. ;)

[TankLV]

87. Somebody who gets it - with a sense of HUMOR!

My, my, my, but the "little" revolutionaries can get a wee bit testy, can't they!

[skooooo]

108. i got it

hi tanklv

:hi:

[greenman3610]

4. this is always the way it is

because the people who have the furious energy
and the time to organize this come from the edges, not
the mainstream of America.
When they are near a mike, they can't help themselves,
because they are myopic about their little
slice of the picture.
I hope the majority of folks at the march understand that..
but I suspect many watchers in the heartland will not...

[skooooo]

26. that's true....

I don't begrudge anyone the right to speak their mind. I just hope the message isn't lost.

[patdem]

6. This is ANSWER who BEGAN the protests..and have organized the

protests...and you what to SHUT them out...there would be no protest in DC today without A.N.S.W.E.R.....fuggedaboudit!

[tjdee]

14. They should not be allowed to steamroll over this.

This is part of the problem with a number of groups setting up an event.

They are showing they have no concept of a)audience, and b)media relations.

And that is bad for our cause and their cause both.

[ret5hd]

21. no shit...

people want a rally/march/etc that addresses only the issues THEY want? ORGANIZE ONE!

(ps: it's harder than you think...i've done it.)

[Mr_Spock]

59. They piggybacked protest on their agenda. WE WERE USED.

Damn it. x(

[patdem]

67. NO..WE used THEM..they had the organizing power...WE USED THEM

and I am glad WE did!

[Mr_Spock]

71. OK, I still wish the speakers where talking to someone

That was totally embarrassing - looks poorly organized...

[TankLV]

75. Something is better than NOTHING - which is what we'd have if we didn't

have ANSWER to organize these things.

So far, I have not seen ONE SINGLE OTHER GROUP willing to do it.

Not ONE.

[TankLV]

73. Unfortunately, you're right.

That's why we need to have SOMEBODY ELSE organize these things!

Then we CAN keep them out and, oh, I don't know, STAY ON MESSAGE and FOCUS ON GETTING OUT OF IRAQ?

Just a humble suggestion.

[crispini]

113. That's not true, UFPJ was a key sponsor.

And I suspect they might have preferred to be the only sponsor. Just my guess.

[tjdee]

7. Obviously they have no marketing/PR people.

Why have most on the left acted like they never saw a fucking camera before? Why are they acting like they have no knowledge at all of how these things work best?

[patdem]

11. As I recall it is the marketing and PR people who are killing Democrats

and the Democratic party..they need to talk from their hearts and not listen to the pundits..and the political hacks...REMEMBER???

[LSK]

16. i was hoping that today was a focused message to Congress

That we the people want out of Iraq. But Congress tunes into CSPAN and sees the same old message, get out of Palestine, get out of blah blah. This is not effective.

[JHB]

23. And ANSWER's professional protesters are not a form of "pundits & hacks"?

n/t

[The Magistrate]

122. Well Said, Sir

Those are indeed hacks, differing from the more familiar models only by their aspect and lack of wide success....

[tjdee]

29. The two are not connected.

Talking from your heart does not mean acting like you are a media relations idiot.

Listening to pundits is not what public relations is. Public relations deals with the best way to get your message out to the public. It doesn't mean lie or be dishonest. It means how best can I communicate to the public what I'm about.

It's like a book report. If I'm doing a book report on Huck Finn, I will not take up half the report talking about Tom Sawyer. Today is supposed to be about Iraq. Not Israel and the Cuban Five.

ANSWER is showing a remarkable lack of focus here. Or maybe, everyone else didn't realize that ANSWER was going to do this--and they need to remember that for next time, if this is ANSWER'S MO.

[patdem]

30. You KNOW..that without A.N.S.W.E.R. there would be NO protest???

there would not be between 100,000 and 600,000 people in the streets of DC? and the rest in London, Amsterdam, Madrid, et all? You hate them for who they are...not for what they are doing...wow...and yet you hate bush for what he is doing and not for who he is...

YOU HAVE TO GIVE SOMETHING SOMEWHERE..YOU CANNOT HAVE IT ALL!

[LSK]

32. ive known about the march since early August

Today is the 1st time I heard of ANSWER being associated with it.

[patdem]

36. LSK.You need to contact the people you were in contact with..and complain

A.N.S.W.E.R. was behind this from the beginning...since you are not there...why do you CARE??? WTF...ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE POSTING..AND NOT AT THE RALLY ARE COMPLAIN ABOUT A.N.S.W.E.R.?? :wft:

[tridim]

40. So I have to be there to have an opinion on it?

That doesn't make a lick of sense. I did't go simply because I couldn't afford the trip.

[tjdee]

44. Oh, come on now.

We have been working against Bush and against the Iraq war, that's why we care.

ANSWER is pre-empting us on our own issue, on national television.

That's why we care.

[patdem]

70. A.N.S.W.E.R. is pre-empting YOU...in what way??? please...

they are as anti war as any of us,...are they stopping the anti war people from talking? NO...are they refusing to allow anti war signs..and songs ..NO..how the HELL are the pre-empting the anti war movement..when they organized it...??? I sometimes wonder who are these DU people?

[Poor Richard Lex]

88. so if you werent there you dont have the right to an opinion

that is a mighty high horse you got there lady

ANSWER whored the anti-war movement and diffused the message. All these people here are saying is that we need some message discipline, thats all.

[tavalon]

127. Exactly

and since my opinion is apparently more valued by high horse lady (I was there after all), I'll add mine to yours.

[fishnfla]

99. why do you think some of us aint there?

nt

[tavalon]

126. Alrighty then,

I was there and their stage management sucked. I went up to the front and asked them if they were planning on letting us know when we were to start the march. They said they would announce it after the speakers were done..........

Finally, our group (DUers) left the rally to line up for the march and so did most of the rest of the folks. A.N.S.W.E.R. may well have finally announced that it was time to march but there was next to nobody there to hear it - we had already left to do our own damn march.

I don't really care about their political affiliations but I do care about having an effective message and they seem genetically incapable of that.

[Violet_Crumble]

130. Question...

A.N.S.W.E.R. may well have finally announced that it was time to march but there was next to nobody there to hear it - we had already left to do our own damn march.

If you'd already left on yr own damn march, how do you know there was next to nobody left?


Violet...

[tavalon]

136. Because we were some of the last hold outs

and as we walked away, I turned around and noticed that most everyone else was walking away too.

We DUers were enjoying our time together and pretty much ignoring the speakers but finally we became concerned that the rally was running a wee bit too long so I was nominated (okay, I volunteered because I don't have a problem speaking my mind) to find out if they were planning on announcing the march any time soon or if we were just supposed to spontaneously start to march. The person I spoke with told me there were only a couple more speakers and then they would announce. That promise kept us there for 15 more minutes and then we left in disgust. We had a hard time finding a spot for our group as many, if not most, of the groups had already lined up (having given up on A.N.S.W.E.R. long before).

[Violet_Crumble]

138. I saw the list of speakers earlier...

It was a long-arse list, that's for sure. I went to a huge anti-war rally here before the invasion of Iraq, and there was a similar cast of thousands when it came to speakers. I sat and listened to the ones with top billing, and then wandered off past the lines of cops into Parliament House to buy myself a cuppa, and emerged when most of the speakers had finished...

Moral of the story seems to be: Less Talking, More Walking :)


Violet...

[tjdee]

39. But what good is this protest doing?

Seriously?

If your rally is vague, about fifty different things... what good is it doing? If people watching C-SPAN are hearing about the Phillipines, what good is this "ANTI-WAR" rally doing?

As far as I knew, this isn't "GENERAL PROTEST DAY". If that's how ANSWER does it, then we should all be aware of that next time. In fact, people should have been aware of this before. ANSWER's heart may be in the right place, but....

When CNN covers this, should they call this anti-war protest (as they are) or an anti-Israeli support (that will go over well!) or a Free the Cuban Five rally (who are they)??

People get pissed because this isn't covered, but what could they cover? The marchers or the speakers? Why aren't they the same people?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tjdee]

53. Uh, no...

I'm saying they should save those protests for a "Free the Cuban Five" rally or a "Israel out of Palestine" rally. Or even, a "General Protest" rally.

If you want an effective rally, you focus on one thing. Period. It is more potent when we are speaking with ONE voice, not fifty thousand. What will be accomplished by this rally? Is Congress going to look at this and go "wow, Americans really don't want this"?

I'm glad you think I should STFU, but guess what? You've stumbled into a DISCUSSION board, and that's what people do! :)

[LSK]

58. a lot of the issues PREDATE the Bush administration

And go back decades.

[nashville_brook]

109. hit nail head

and no tie-dyes, please.

please no marxists.

please no free leonard peltier.

please no palestinians.

please no animal rights folk.

please no Clarkies.

please no guys in skirts banging drums.

please no old vets pushing conspiracy theories

please no fatties or smokers.

please no puppets.

please no feminists.

please no poetry.

please no profanity.

_______________________________

how many of you guys have actually ever been to an action in DC?

[U4ikLefty]

111. BINGO!!! n/t

[bhunt70]

100. nice post

[Finder]

51. Agree...

and the response on DU about ANSWER is the reason progressives have no power today. Sad.

[The Magistrate]

123. Quite The Contrary, Ma'am

It is action in the style that this organization conducts that is a leading reason the left is peripheral to the politics of our country today. That is a great misfortune, and a grave deriliction.

[Violet_Crumble]

133. No, you can't blame that on ANSWER alone...

I've been to rallies here where there's speakers talking on other issues than the main one, and from what I've heard it's the same in other countries. So knock me over with a feather when I start reading thread after thread after thread of left-wingers blaming all the woes of the world on the organisers of the highly successful protests from yesterday, and one poster even going so far as insisting that socialists must be excluded from future protests. If the behaviour I've seen at DU is any indication of the majority of US left-wingers, then it's that behaviour that's more to blame for the left being on the peripheral of politics in yr country. They're so busy trying to please the rightwingers that they so fervently hope to win over that they end up attacking everything and everyone that doesn't fit into the White Picket Fence scenario they see...

Violet...

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. Ahhh... a realist. Thank you. nt

[tridim]

8. They do it every time

And it pisses me off. They seem to be really good at organizing, but that's about it.

The problem is, the media will frame this march as an "ANSWER march", ignoring the fact that 95% of the people marching have nothing to do with ANSWER.

[patdem]

27. Sugar, if they ignore over 100,000..and some say 600,000 protesters

because of the speaches..well all I have to say..is you belive the MSM too much...and need to understand it is the NUMBERS who showed up,..and for every one who DID show up there are 3-5 who agree but could not participate for one reason or another...get over YOURSELF!

[BlueJac]

9. Stop the Killing.........

[Angry Girl]

10. I really don't understand the lack of BALLS here

Isn't there anybody who's got the balls to force these people off?

I am SOOOO tired of this passive, nonagressive whining. If someone's blocking you from making your point, kick them in the shins and shove them out of the way! Get up and get angry, dammit! Haven't you had enough of people running you over like you're a door mat?

Edited for a bunch of angry typos...

[Tower]

12. If that's what they were planning, they should've called it the

"Blabber On About Every Loony Fucking Issue You're Family Won't Listen To" rally, and I could've planned acccordingly.

This was promoted as an anti-Iraq occupation rally and march.

[patdem]

18. Honey, did you see ALL the other anti-war rallies...ALL sponsered by

A.N.S.W.E.R.? They were ALL the same...from the first till now...and you wanted to be notified before hand?? YOU WERE!

[Tower]

24. Yes, I did. It's true.

I suppose I should've known they'd turn the whole thing into a joke.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

34. by watching CSPAN, how would you know about 100,000 people

What ANSWER is doing and what CSPAN is doing is the joke.

[patdem]

38. LSK..so to you...if you do not see it on TV it does not happen??

you are not part of the reality based world..you are of the 'lets pretend the Iraq war is doing just great, since we cannot report the truth'...you are of the kind Suskind reported..

[LSK]

43. no, that is not what I am saying

Do you not understand that we are in a FIGHT to get the message out??? Do you not understand that we have to reach the average American??? We are all political junkies here and we are aware of whats going on. Today's events are partly for us to be heard, but also to GET THE MESSAGE OUT.

So if Im Joe Blow average guy, and I tuned into CSPAN, what message would he be seeing???

There are even posts here on GD about people just tuning in and seeing only 80 people.

Why are you not understanding my point?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tower]

48. Yeah, it's me- Karl Rove.

...

I call it a joke when a group like ANSWER attracts 100,000-600,000 people to DC on the assumption that they will be marching in protest of the Iraq occupation, and instead pisses all over them by blathering on about fringe issues.

When they actually drive the people AWAY who should be their core of support- what do you think they're doing to middle America?

[tjdee]

55. But people are SEEING it on TV!

They're seeing lots of people.....talking about......stuff!

If it wasn't for ANSWER they wouldn't be seeing people! On their TV!

:sarcasm:

[patdem]

74. tjdee..yes...seeing is believing...you complain because we are not seen

on the TV..now we are and you use sarcasm because it is being seen..WOW...you cannot be pleased, can you?

[TankLV]

82. Thank you. That was great.

To the point, AND humorous!

Made me smile!

[tavalon]

128. The rally they turned into a joke

The march we turned into an amazing moment in history.

Most of us abandoned them and their babbling before they even finished. We had work to do and we did it.

[TankLV]

81. BINGO! THEY billed it as an Iraq rally and THEY gave us all this other

BULLSHIT!

It was FALSE ADVERTISING, plain and simple.

The only thing is, NOBODY ELSE STOOD UP TO THE PLATE!

NOBODY.

Until such time as there is another organization that is developed professionally and competantly, we will always have PROTEST EVERY FUCKING THING day everytime ANSWER holds a rally.

Just like the Lenninists did when they overtook the bolshevik revolution.

It stinks to high heaven.

[MuseRider]

13. For me

it is all about solidarity. All of these issues are common and we are and should be concerned about it.

It is a little much but I was under the impression the crowd was being kept there until there was room for them to get into the march. I thought that was why there were so many other speakers. :shrug: I don't know, I am getting ready to leave so I have not seen it all, I could be wrong but that was the impression I got.

Perhaps we need to organize through a different organization? I doesn't bother me but apparently it does bother a lot of other people.

[patdem]

52. Thank you, MuseRider..yes..it is about solidarity..and these 'fringe'

issues are about how to create REAL peace in the Middle East..Palistine is a REAL peace issue..not a 'fringe' issue...I have not been fired up on DU this much...I usually have to go to chat rooms on AOL and fight the reight wing freaks..:grr:

[tavalon]

129. Yeah, it's a real issue

but it's an issue for another day. What A.N.S.W.E.R. pulled was unconscionable but luckily not fatal for the march.

This isn't about whether the issues they brought up were valid issues, it's about the KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid principle.

[biscotti]

15. It is so

frustrating.

[MelissaB]

19. I frustrated, too.

They just need to STFU and get on with it so CSPAN will televise the march. :grr:

[New Earth]

17. please make her stfu

this girl on now, PLEASE STFU

[TankLV]

83. I'll second that motion. It is all so ridiculuous. A freak show.

I'm embarrassed.

OK, now, LET'S ALL FREE THE TYSON CHICKENS!

FREE THE CHICKENS!

FREE THE CHICKENS!

Isn't that what this protest is all about?!

[lakeguy]

20. focus, focus, focus on getting out of IRAQ!

on edit: well, looks like ANSWER blew the time with cnn.com and now they are covering something else. DAMN IT!

[Beam Me Up]

25. NO I AM NOT. But I'm EQUALLY unhappy that *we* let THEM be the ones

who A) organize the event and B) set the agenda. Except for a few Democratic congresmen/women WHO among the Democratic party are willing to stick their necks out, ORGANIZE AND LEAD a genuine opposition to the Corporate/Military interests of the National Security State?

ANYONE??

So, yeah, ANSWER is a bunch of 'commies' who at least have a class analysis of our situation. And, yeah, they are probably funded by the very interests who are the enemy of WE THE PEOPLE. But where are the leaders of a genuine, people's movement?

Cindy Sheehan is one of the few I see -- and she wasn't ashamed to step up on Answer's stage.

[tjdee]

41. Exactly--who planned this WITH ANSWER?????

From what I'm reading, they do this every time.

So why the hell do people go along with it? Over and over again?

Very frustrating.

[patdem]

42. THEY created the event..the first amendment is more perfect here

many voices...many choices...many nemisis..many cohorts...much rhetoric...but it is ALL against the person who squats in OUR White House...NEVER FORGET...NEVER FORGIVE!

[TankLV]

84. And it is better than NOTHING.

But hell, let's all CONFUSE THE ISSUES!

WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Beggars can't be choozy, I guess.

Sigh.

[Virginian]

64. This is like tuning into your favorite program and getting all commercials

I think the message gets blurred if we don't stay on topic.

The people who voted for Shrubby wanted a clear message. This rally won't convince them of anything because the message is muddled. This rally is only preaching to the choir at this point. It will not achieve anything. It is like the war in Iraq, a lot of effort and no results.

[patdem]

78. Sugar, this is not a commercial... a 1 minute blurb..this is a rally...a

protest.Americans who care..and they are gathering in numbers...can do better than watch a 1 minute commercial...sorry...your analogy does not make sense!

[Virginian]

116. I am not your SUGAR.

If this was a 60 minute TV show, it would have been 15 minutes of show and 45 minutes of commercials for everyone else. Sorry HONEY, but the other stuff just drowned out the message.

IMHO, the ANSWER group USED Cindy. The popularity of her movement was hijacked by many others as a forum for their own agendas. You don't accomplish anything when you dilute the message. You only confuse the audience. This was a wasted effort because of all the commercials and because the MSM didn't cover it as they did the protests of the '60s and '70s. As I said before BABY DOLL, the result was the same as preaching to the choir.

The way you are so strongly supporting ANSWER, DEAR, I would guess that you must be a part of that organization.

SWEETHEART, you have the right to your opinions, but check the poll numbers, you ARE in the minority -- a very small minority at that. So, you may be Happy about all the different issues discussed, but most people are not.


Now, here's a Bushism for you from Slate:

bushisms The president's accidental wit and wisdom.

Bushism of the Day
By Jacob Weisberg
Posted Wednesday, May 25, 2005, at 10:04 AM PT


"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."—Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

[Lars39]

28. C-Span #, call them, say you want to see the marchers, not ANSWER

Main Number: [phone]

[titoresque]

35. I'm waiting for the "People for Buttered....UN-salted popcorn"

to speak......PBUP??
:banghead:

[TankLV]

85. NO! FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!

FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!
FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!
FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!
FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!
FREE THE SALTED POPCORN!

[KC21304]

37. Several of the liberal bloggers warned

this would happen.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. is it ANY wonder now why we see this title in LBN?

Top Democrats won't attend anti-war rally in Washington

[Lecky]

47. Thank God they didn't show up!

That rally was an embarrassment.

Sorry, but it's true.

[Poll_Blind]

46. I voted Yes, despite the snarky way your "poll" was worded.

Come on, Bush is fucking up just about every spot on earth and supporting criminal behavior. I have no problem with allowing people to have other beefs with Bush (um, like Katrina victims, critics of US policies in Israel, Saudi Arabia, et al.) to speak them.

If some want to marginalize the effectiveness of the march because of it, I can't do much about it but am disappointed in their choice.

PB

[patdem]

57. This is the first post in years on DU that has me fired up...I am not

usually this feisty..but this is such an important event..for DUers to piss on our parade is just disgusting...I can see freepers doing it..but DUers? I sometimes wonder??

[Poll_Blind]

77. You're right, it is disgusting to see DUers piss on the event. And...

...it's got me pissed too.

PB

[geomon666]

80. They're not 'pissing' on the event.

They're 'pissing' on the organizers that hijacked the message we wanted to send.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geomon666]

94. No I'm not surprised.

I'm disappointed that even now when we need unity so badly, we can't get it because of groups like that.

[Poll_Blind]

102. Um, exactly WHO were the events organizers, Geomon666?

This message states that it was A.N.S.W.E.R.'s rally. There was another indicating that A.N.S.W.E.R. had paid for the permit for the rally.

Please correct me if I am in error- because it seems "confusing" why you would complain that A.N.S.W.E.R. "hijacked", as you put it, a rally they themselves had purchased a permit for and organized.

Did someone else pay for the permit and organize the rally?

Who?

PB

[tavalon]

131. I was there

I'm not pissing on the parade, I'm pissing on the rally before the parade. Things went much better after we left A.N.S.W.E.R. in the dust.

[tlsmith1963]

63. The Rally Should Have Stayed on the Message

The rally was an anti Iraq War rally. It should have stayed one. The other groups had legitimate concerns, but this was the day to talk about Iraq. It dilutes the message when you keep hearing from all these other groups. How can we stop Bush when we cannot even stay on message? The conservatives certainly have unity, & that's why they kick our asses all the time. We need to be united! I don't want to live in Bush's America any longer. *Please* stop this lack of unity! I have been so depressed, & ANSWER's tactic makes me even more depressed. We are so fragmented as a movement. This country will *end* if we don't stop this! I really think that Bush will bankrupt this country if we don't unite, stay on issue, & stop him! Don't let ANSWER run any more rallies. They mean well, but they are hurting our movement at a time when so much is at stake.

Tammy

[Violet_Crumble]

134. I didn't vote at all because the wording was so silly...

n/t

[TankLV]

54. Frankly, I think they always RUIN any protest.

It became a freak show.

We need to have more responsible persons organizing rallies.

Unfortunately, nobody else has shown up to bat.

These are the only groups of people with the passion and commitment to PUT THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE.

If it weren't for them, we'd have NOTHING.

Something is better than nothing I'm afraid.

[Peace Patriot]

60. I want a nice boutique kind of march, sponsored by Starbuck's and Gap,

where everybody's clothes are clean and 'American' looking and nothing uncomfortable is said, and with fully vetted speeches that contain only 'consensus' statements, written by the helpful war profiteering corporate news monopoly public relations departments who will determine what things that we can all agree on.

[Mr_Spock]

61. lol

misses the point entirely but it is funny :D

[tjdee]

62. I don't think anyone is saying that.

And I don't think asking for a little focus is akin to what you suggested, either.

[tlsmith1963]

105. Uh...no

That's not why I am disgusted with ANSWER. You can't defeat Bush if you are yelling about a million causes at the same time. What is Bush most vulnerable on? Iraq & the lousy response to Katrina (& the racism and classism that goes hand in hand with it). You keep pummeling him on those two issues. ANSWER wanted the rally to be about all these different causes, & it diluted the message of the rally. The only good that came out of it was that the marchers got disgusted with ANSWER & left. Then they marched on the White House. If we have another big anti-war rally, it would be better if ANSWER didn't run things.

Tammy

[tavalon]

132. Yep, I loved that part of it

It felt good to leave those useless windbags in the dust. So long and thanks for all those permits!

[longship]

65. I've got to stand by the First Amendment.

What do you propose they do? Pull a Bill O'Loofa? Start shouting "Shut UP!" and cut off the microphone?

Let them speak. Gees!

[CAG]

76. They shouldn't have scheduled every Tom Dick and Harry to

talk about all of their pet issues. If mainstream america, who we need to convince to join us against the Bushistas, sat thru the last half of the speeches where no-name goofballs got their 15 minutes of fame by spouting about every issue in the book, then they dismissed us all as left wing socialist kooks. One guy even proudly said he's a communist, Geez... what a joke.... Go serve the Chinese govt, dude...

[goclark]

110. I'm with you, the 1st Amendment means

that if anyone is against the WAR they can be there.

They were able to Rally thousands and we are always talking about being INCLUSIVE.

I would be mad as hell if my group was not allowed to speak -- that would sound like something that Rethugs would do.

First they came for the Indians, then the Blacks, then the Muslims and then they come for ????

Let them all speak!

[tavalon]

135. We did

but we didn't stay to listen to all of their rambling clap trap either. I don't know if you noticed but most of us started marching on our own because they just wouldn't shut up.

[hippiechick]

68. As The Article from AP noted :

"...Opponents of the war in Iraq marched Saturday in a clamorous day of protest, song and remembrance of the dead, some showing surprisingly diverse political views even as they spoke with one loud voice in wanting U.S. troops home.

...

They were young people with green hair, nuns whose anti-war activism dates to Vietnam, parents mourning their children in uniform lost in Iraq, and uncountable families motivated for the first time to protest."


It shows that even groups who may differ on other issues, or who may have different perogatives for issue # 1 on their own personal list, are coming together to form a mass people's movement behind the 'GTF out of Iraq' issue.

It prohibits the MSM and the GOP from painting the protest with the broad brush of 'oh they're just a few disillusioned hippies who hate America'.

If the discontent crosses this many boundaries ... who's right ? All of us united together, or Bush and his mini-Cabal ??

[Scurrilous]

79. I'm happy with ANSWER...

...they seem to be pissing off the right people. :thumbsup:

[ima_sinnic]

90. this is ANSWER's rally, it was organized by them and billed as

"Fund People's Needs, Not the War Machine"

It has been being promoted for about 3 months now and the fact that there are other issues created by BushCo and being protested than the Iraq war should come as no surprise.

The idea that it should be ONLY about "withdraw the troops now" is just opinion and has no basis in fact. It was NEVER billed as that.

Organize your own protest with that very narrow focus if you don't like this one, see how far you get. The majority of the world's population, not only Iraqis, have legitimate grievances with Bush and his bloodthirsty cabal and I for one am ecstatic that so many can come together at once and frustrated that I couldn't be there.

Who gives a flying fuck "what people think" about the speakers at the rally? Those are legitimate issues they are addressing. The massiveness of the turnout shows just how massive is the resistance to everything about BushCo's policies, not just the Iraq war.

[jhain]

91. this is our whole damn issue- no FRAMING n/t

[Danmel]

96. When I saw the Communist guy I knew it was a mess

Can't turn a rally like that into every one's grievance session- makes anti-war people look like a bunch of crackpots- you want to be taken seriously, and that isn't the way to do it.

[lakeguy]

97. can i vote again? i'm doubly pissed off!

[bhunt70]

98. not at all, every rally/march I've been to has splintered messages.

My wife and I have been to all of them and I've always thought it was counterintuitive to let everyone talk about their personal favorite issue just because the numbers were there. Stick to the message that people congregated for would be a better scenario I think.

[judy from nj]

101. We are nuts

to let A.N.S.W.E.R. run all of the anti-Iraq war protests. They make us look like a fringe group. Someone needs to organize these events that is not affiliated with a fringe left-wing group.

[Poll_Blind]

103. I nominate YOU! Seriously, why would that be a bad idea?

I heard somewhere that Melville wrote Moby Dick because he was disgusted at the state of literature of the time. I hereby empower you, on behalf of all the brave men and women who have given life and limb for Freedom, to get your own thing going if you don't like what's currently out there.

PB

[goodhue]

104. I'm happy

despite your push poll. The crowd is well aware of the issue of getting out of Iraq. There is absolutely no harm or downside to letting folks speak about other social justice issues.

[Alizaryn]

106. I had no problem with them speaking about whatever

their hearts desired, I just wish that there was a more concise segment of the anti-Iraq war speakers then those that chose to leave could do so (I was able to turn off the TV or mute it). The 3 hours of CSPANS time shared only the voices from the rally, which prevented the Nation from viewing the thousands marching in the street, that was a lost opportunity in my opinion.

[Stinky The Clown]

107. Self Censorship is a virtue. It needs to be exercised more. I vote NO

I can't quarrel with every one of thos (clearly) fringe groups who took up time on the podium, but this protest on this day was about the war.

Period

I wish some people would leave their overinflated egos at home.

Putting that sort of stuff on with what is shaping up to be a very mainstream sentiment 0 Cindy Sheehan and her whole cause - serves to associate a highly noble cause with what can and is seen by many as 'looneys'. It helps NO ONE. The opopsition gets a talking point, and we' the possibly natural ally for the smaller groups, get alienated or just plain pissed off at 'em.

I fall into the 'pissed off at 'em' group.

[Helga Scow Stern]

112. Everytime I have seen them hog up C-Span time for their speakers,

it makes me cringe.

[many a good man]

114. Marchers walked out on ANSWER

I arrived around noon and there were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. I couldn't believe how few were in the Ellipse listening to the speeches. The stage was begging people to stay and wait just a few more speakers before we begin the march-- but it was too late: the march began on its own.

With bush* and Iraq the issue is so crystal clear and symbolic of all we oppose, we wanted to be associated with the mainstream public NOT with grating ranting fringe groups. This was the worst-organized protest on the Mall so far. But it also had the greatest intensity of emotion. Especially standing in front of the White House. The PEOPLE had taken over the crowd, and we were in control.

I'm grateful that SOMEBODY has organized these protests but sort of wish it wasn't ANSWER. UPJ is great and I think they should find another partner. I overhead one of the ANSWER guys saying it costs $100,000 to stage today's rally. If we can raise millions for Howard Dean or John Kerry, can't we step in?

[Chalco]

115. I'm sorry but it really pissed me off to have people other than

anti-war types speaking from the podium. Phillipinos want the US presence out, for GAWD's sake. And all the rest of them. It diluted the message. The overriding theme was anti-Bush, yes, but these ancillary people/themes will be picked up by the media and over-hyped.

[confludemocrat]

117. CHILL OUT those speakers were on after they announced that they were needi

ng to "meter" people out onto the streets for the march and not to head out all at once after the headline anti-war speakers, Galloway etc. So it was "bonus material" and very interesting to watch.

One communist who appeared was the former LeRoi Jones, the writer, poet. And so goddamn what if he's a Communist!

All the attacks on ANSWER are bullshit. They have been fightingly anti-war from the get-go and I love them for that.

[Laughing Mirror]

120. Same attacks veterans in the anti-war movement have always been hearing

Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones) is a communist writer and poet and a spokesman against this war as was Jean Genet, French spokesman for Black Panthers and PLF back in the day. He did not speak a word of English, but he wrote pamphlets and spoke at Panther rallies and anti-war rallies through an interpreter across America. He had to be smuggled into the US via Canada. US would not allow him entrance into the country because he was communist.

You are right about the placement of those offbeat speakers in the programming, but people who attend these rallies via TV screens may not realize that the stage may be the central point, but most of the people after a few hours have moved away from the stage, chomping at the bit to get on with the march. Even the speakers themselves sometimes. Sharpton addressed this very theme at the tail end of the Oct 2002 rally ANSWER put on, on the mall BEFORE the war. He used this "we're gonna march" theme to rouse the antsy troops and to explain to everybody why, in fact, we do march.

I always look forward to hearing those offbeat speakers come on, and I'm glad ANSWER puts them on stage. We are all part of the anti-war movement, and that is the one thing we all have in common. "This is what democracy looks like" is what we veteran marchers always say.

[confludemocrat]

124. I have to wonder about this flavor of criticism. Organizers pretty much

handled everything right. But a small bunch of naysayers with issues this substantially minor should ask themselves are they really with it or not. The main part of the program was on-point, very well done, so as the main event moved on the "undercard" turned out to be informative and interesting (watched on CSPAN), and I even saw them tapping some compelling speakers on the back so the next short bit could come on.

[intheflow]

118. Yes - it's all connected.

Iraq and Palestine and FEMA and Katrina and racism and classism and sexism and... you get the point.

[Skidmore]

119. I don't have a problem with them letting people talk about issues so

long as it can be tied to the foolishness of this war. Some of the speakers were really good at doing this by discussing how global policies of this nation impact poverty and justice. Others were just really Johnny-one-notes.

[The Magistrate]

121. It Is Very Foolish Marketing, My Friends

The essence of marketting and propaganda is to concentrate on one point and drive it home. Dispersed effort achieves nothing.

"The essence of strategy is concentration of force."

[rucky]

125. Get a group of 8 Democrats together...

and you get 14 different opinions.

:shrug:


on edit: Legalize It!

[Mairead]

137. Back in the '60s we used to say there are the makers, the takers, and the

fakers.

ANSWER are the makers--they've been doing the work.

Which one are you?

[NuttyFluffers]

139. Where's the "Don't Care" option?

C-SPAN isn't big on people's viewing habits, besides those who are ravenous politics junkies. most people won't see, and if they won't see they won't care. period.

The rest of the american main stream media is sure as hell not going to give a blurb or blather more than they have to about the event, which roughly translates to "waa waaa waa blah blah, anti-war, waa blah, other shit that even the audience ignored, waa waaa blah blah, 100,000 people. the end."

the only thing that matters in this terminally shitty media is the headline reason and how many zeros gets placed behind that first number. and that's it. wait a month and ask around and see whether people remember anything besides that.

the headline titles are what we wanted:

anti-war rally, d.c., 100,000+ people.

pro-war rally, d.c., 400 people.

the end.

we got what we want. huzzah. throw a party or a hissy fit, doesn't matter, we already won this battle.

now, if you want to talk about *effective change* well, hell, outside of rioting hordes storming the bastille, or full nation strikes, i don't see our 'precious, on-message' protests, or any protests, pulling their weight as they used to. so a big *yawn* to these concerns.

so, sign me up for "Don't Care." a whole lotta hot air over a victory. shit, think the world cares you had to wallow through bad poetry? boo freakin' hoo.