A DUer tried to warn us about "the ANSWER problem"

[fishnfla]

The advance search option is OOO at this time, but a DUer had a thread "The problem with ANSWER" that warned exactly what people are complaining about, peripheral issues and preachy speeches taking over, etc.

Also some folks from ANSWER were kicked out of camp casey for co-opting their issues into her protest.

So people other than the media were aware, perhaps that is why there is a greater crowd at the WH than at the stage.

We should have been more proactive in dealing with the media coverage, perhaps?

[wellstone dem]

1. we need to be sure that CSPAN covers the

right event (or really the left event)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. Um, no they are not going to, not now anyway

They just switched to Bush's radio address, to be followed by a FEMA press conference.

BUT: I just switched to LINK TV to see Amy Goodman! And coverage of the REAL rally! Yay!

[tridim]

5. CSPAN just cut away to *'s weekly radio address

I guess the WH is not really surrounded by 600,000 people because there's no proof on TV.. It's down the memory hole. Thanks for nothing CSPAN.

[jane_pippin]

10. They also announced that they will be covering the counter-protest.

I'm sure that will be riveting. :eyes:

[MelissaB]

2. I remember it well.

:(

[fishnfla]

12. Do you remember the thread?

The poster described how she( I think it was a she) showed up at a anti-war protest and was made to carry an "out of palestine" sign or something, and was very disillusioned over the whole thing.

I'm trying to remember ....seems like something could have been done. This was in August

[moddemny]

31. For everyone's reference here is the link to that older ANSWER

thread.....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4386849#4387079

[Behind the Aegis]

3. I was one of many

If this were an "anti-war" rally...then game on. But is supposed to be about OUR illegal war and bringing OUR troops home! The 'theme' was "against the Iraq war," not nine million other injustices throughout the world!

[Tinoire]

32. Yeah.. don't want the injustice in Palestine mentioned do you?

Lord knows what that could lead to... The injustices in Palestine must remain ignored because talking about them make old Mr "Sharon, man of Peace" look bad. Can't have that can we?

The theme, for anyone who bothered to read about the march, was against the war and against injustice- all injustices.

Thank God most people aren't so selective about which particular injustice they're against.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. Not even close

I don't think having a multi-prong agenda was what was needed. If they wanted to, they could have had side platforms or booths. The march was about Iraq, not Palestine, not freeing this person or that one, not caged chickens, nor anything else.

I am guessing you like ANSWER because they have that nice radical side that is so carefree and irresponsible. Thank G-d most people aren't so easy to hitch their wagon to the flavor of the month.

[Tinoire]

34. LMAO!

:rofl: One would really have lived under a rock to not realize the relationship between Iraq and Palestine.

Not even close, Good Lord!

Yeah, I like ANSWER because they refuse to allow any lobbies to run over them and stand up for all injustices. A people's movement you know ;)

Thank God most people don't listen to the hysterical ravings of the anti-Palestinian crowd and show up for these things, crying for justice.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. and thank G-d most don't listen to terrorist apologists.

It was an anti-Iraq war rally. It should have remained on target. It was not an all-encompassing "anti war" rally. I have no issue with them bring up other issues on side stages, but to do it on the main stage simply detracted from the rally. However, it is not surprising that a few here are OK with that.

It is no different had the anti-war supporters of PETA had appeared and starting going off about how the war was like the destruction of free-range chickens and then spending their time on stage speaking about the ills of eating meat. Analogies are good, but staying on message is better.

[asthmaticeog]

6. It's a problem that predates ANSWER.

EVERY protest I've ever been to has had a huge number of folks glom on with issues seperate from those actually relevant to the demonstration, "Legalize Weed" and "Free Mumia" typically being chief among them. I even saw, at a D.C. demo over the first Gulf War in '91, a guy with a fucking Bob Dobbs sign.

[JHB]

15. Yeah, but how often does the Bob Dobbs guy hog the cameras with a slate...

...of speakers all day?

[asthmaticeog]

26. The coverage was equally a joke even then.

The attendance was grossly underreported, LaRouchies, Communists and other freaks got all the camera time, same bullshit as now. When freak-scenes show up, they get the coverage, period. Partly because it serves to marginalize the more mainstream protestors, and partly because they look more interesting on camera (and say more colorful and wacky things to print reporters) than a bunch of Joe Averages.

[69KV]

30. very true

I do have to say that today's protest in DC had the most protesters who were there on-message and stayed on message of any large protest I have *ever* been to.

This was in spite of ANSWER's involvement, not because of it. It's actually a good sign. When a large majority of protesters show up to actually protest what it is that the protest is about, rather than the usual mess of fringe groups trying to tack on whatever other issue they are more concerned about, it means that there is a large number of us Regular Folks who have turned against the war. It means the Bush regime is close to going the way of the Nixon regime. After we liberals have taken back America, ANSWER and the other fringe groups will still be out there promoting their causes but they will remain irrelevant.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. I knew this was going to happen too.

Anytime ANSWER sponsors a rally, it's a guarantee that there will be speakers talking about every issue under the sun instead of the main issue, the Iraq war.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. There's only one problem (vis-a-vis ANSWER)

They're parasitic, and nobody doubts it.

The Howling Heads will claim that the Commies from ANSWER are in the Progressive Democratic drivers' seat, but that claim will be laid to rest the first time a reporter wades into a protest and starts to actually talk -- and listen -- to the protesters.

The tide is turning; in fact, it has had a number of little turns over the past year. The mass of garbage and scum floating on the surface of America through the buoyancy of its own flatus will be swept away by the coming tsunami of Democracy.

And don't you know it!

--p!

[Nikki Stone 1]

9. Is ANSWER an undercover op?

Where's our PSYOPS expert on this board?
:tinfoilhat:

[barbaraann]

11. How did the speakers from other countries get into the US?

They wouldn't let Robert Fisk in but apparently every very anti-US international ANSWER speaker breezed in.

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. Good point.

Methinks that ANSWER needs to do some answering.

[barbaraann]

16. Who paid for the airplane tickets?

The grassroots organizations I have dealt with in my life barely had money for a ream of paper.

[Catrina]

17. I'm beginning to believe that now

I never saw anything like this. As far as I know, there were a few people in DC listening to one screaming speaker after another. I turned it off, because I wanted to see the march. Was there a march?

And what's with C-Span? Did Karl Rove give them orders to cover this, with only three or four people there?

If they were not psyops, then they are a totally self-absorbed bunch of lunatics. I am so angry. I had told someone to watch this, and by now I know she is convinced this whole anti-Iraq war movement is just a bunch of radical, screaming (why were they screaming?) lunatics.

And tomorrow it's the 'pro-war' rally, or as they will call it, 'support the troops'. This is insane. I hate ANSWER and will never associate with that organization, ever.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. COINTELPRO

I can believe it.

[Nikki Stone 1]

25. Ah, you heard us paging you, Minstrel Boy!

How could we actually tell that this was a PSYOPS operation and not jsut a bunch of self-involved and selfish idiots?

[Stephanie]

22. find Minstrel Boy

[goodhue]

37. Apparently they are evil international communists

The horror!
And the CIA runs the WWP?

[Mari333]

13. This same crap happened during the Vietnam war protests

I would attend meetings to organize peace rallies back then..there were shouting matches as to whose message to use..the Trotskyites were arguiing with the Wobblies, the anarchists were fighting with the the feminists..so many splinter groups and factions.
Thing is, I grew up in a blue collar union family..I always found it amusing when I moved to the city and became involved in the peace movement back in the 60s and 70s, and met college kids who were intent and passionate about "organizing the workers.." many of them were idealistic, shrill, and to be quite honest with you,never worked a day in their life..
I would tell them back then, "my dad is a union worker and hes not interested in some 21 yr old idealistic college student planning his organizational worker rallies for him"
They , like many of the ANSWER people now, I think, live in some kind of bubble..and they, too are not in touch with the US public..its also an ego trip for many of them, IMO.

[Nikki Stone 1]

23. Thanks for this. I have spent a lot of time on college campuses

and have found college students naive in the extreme about "the workers" and how things operate in the real world. And I am sure that some of them are ego driven in the extreme.

On the other hand, they are probably easily infiltrated. For example, the fundamentalist movement in this country didn't come from nowhere. It was well organized and had infiltrated college campuses as early as the late 70s. The wacky fundamentalist faction in this country grew among the middle class because of a directed operation, funded by William F Buckly's "Young America" group which is the top outside funder of university activities outside the university. They have a tremendous amount of funds at their disposal. They are also adults who marketed their product to children like drug pushers--they often went after kids with drug, alcohol, and mental problems to get their initial core group. It is because of this money and organization that we now have, 30 years later, a group of college-educated adults who can believe in "creationism" and that the war in Iraq is going well.

If the left hopes to create a swing back, it needs to fund student activities, but allow mature, rational adults to run major functions.

And today, I will add "press-savvy" adults.

[Coastie for Truth]

19. I haven't been to an International Answer sponsored rally

since the first one. Too many egotists with their own divisive issues and an attitude of "If you are not 100% with me on every one of my personal tangential issues - screw you Capitalist Fascist Pig!"

I've paid my progressive dues and done my progressive projects over many years -- and I don't need a bunch of self hating limousine liberal kids telling me that they are 100% right on 100% of the issues - including their divisive, wedge, tangential issues.

[Mari333]

20. limoousine liberal kids..good one!

I met sooooo many of them back in the 60s and 70s..living off trusts and never actually having worked a 7 dollar an hr job, but well versed in the jargon of the IMPERIALIST WORKER CLASS STRUGGLE. They got on my nerves back then, and they still do.
They were on some sort of guilt trip, I think.

[Stephanie]

21. I think it was around this date >

I found an old PM exchange about it, but I don't have the link to the thread. PM's were dated: Aug-18-05 01:36 PM.

[fishnfla]

27. Yes it was in August

I was making plans to go.
monkey wrenched

[Stephanie]

28. I found the thread - just googled it >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4386849#4387073

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

24. Kevin Coogan wrote a great piece on ANSWER

(& the IAC & WWP) waaay back when. Unfortunately it got ignored by the left & heralded by some on the right as proof positive that the anti-war movement is comprised of hardline Commies:

International Action Center: Peace Activists With A Secret Agenda?
http://www.thirdrailmag.com/archives/s02/content/6.htm

(btw - Kevin Coogan is a great anti-fascist researcher whose biography of Francis Parker Yockey is an absolute must read)

[MisterP]

29. waah, the hippies are coming!

[goodhue]

35. I fail to see the problem.

So they are WWP folks who like to rail against corporate abuse of workers, and don't always stay on message or play well with others.

But where is the harm?
Seriously.

[qanda]

39. People who didn't bother to show up

Need a reason to complain and completely overshadow any good that was done on Saturday. The usual suspects show up on each thread with the same BS message about how ANSWER should have stayed on message. Then you try to tell them from the firsthand experience of being there and how you feel it was bigger than ANSWER and they dismiss you out of hand for not knowing what you're talking about. It really is getting old.

[moddemny]

40. "But where is the harm?"

You might want to catch up on the history of Communist dictatorships. Talk to some poles, czechs, hungarians, romanians, cubans, chinese who were imprisoned and tortured for peacful dissent against their regimes. You may notice the hypocrisy of a group (ANSWER) that claims to be anti war and anti bush while supporting Stalinist type dictatorships around the world. Whenever someone says they fail to see the problem I wonder how they missed a large part of the history of the 20th century.

[goodhue]

41. "supporting Stalinist type dictatorships"

I'm well aware of the history of communist totalitarian states.

Which Stalinist type dictatorships has ANSWER supported in the four years of its existence?

[moddemny]

42. "Which Stalinist type dictatorships has ANSWER supported ..............

in the four years of its existence?"

You must have missed some of the background threads on ANSWER, there are a few around:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4386849#4396795

[goodhue]

44. Actually, I've seen the "exposes" and background threads

And remain at a loss as to which Stalinist type dictatorships ANSWER has supported in its four years of existence. Could you name one?

[derby378]

38. It wasn't ANSWER kicked out of Camp Casey...

...it was Socialist Worker. Different bunch.

At least, that was the case on Saturday, August 21, when I was there.

[earthmama]

43. So ANSWER was a problem?

that is what I thought would happen and the reason I posted the original post about it. It sucks.

[Mairead]

45. You complainers who cliam to be "liberals" should really read

and memorise Phil Ochs's song "Love Me, I'm a Liberal"

He was writing about you.

[Karmadillo]

46. You know they won't google the title. Afraid of ending up on a commie

site or soemthing. So,

http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/liberal.html

Love Me, I'm a Liberal
By Phil Ochs

E A E A
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
E C#m
Tears ran down my spine
E A E
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
F#7 B7
As though I'd lost a father of mine
E A E
But Malcolm X got what was coming
G#m A
He got what he asked for this time
E C#m A B7 E
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
Of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
As long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crane?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New Republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democtratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal