Annoyed - Will Pitt at Black Bloc - B.S. Violence

[CountAllVotes]

Annoyed
By William Rivers Pitt

Saturday 24 September 2005 4:03 PM

With a minute to breathe, I am going to talk a second about what I just saw with the Black Bloc crew. There were maybe about 200 of them, separated from the main march by several blocks. They traveled in a clot, shook their fists at McDonalds, threw dumpsters and newspaper boxes into the street, and generally made noise. The police were amused.

I was not. Screw these people. Screw them for their mindless violence against stuff in the street - we blocked traffic in the middle of a traffic jam, ooooh. Screw them for diverting attention from the main march. Camera crews were sparse at the main rally, because the cameras are spread all over the city. Yet of course, camera crews scrambled after these blivets like pilot fish. I'll bet you a dollar the corporate media will use these infants as representatives of the main.

Oh, yeah, and they were all white kids. Twenty-something tattoed white kids with piercings in their piercings. If they are representing the downtrodden, they sure didn't have any in their crew. The ethnic makeup of the main march was as diverse as I have ever seen. These Black Bloc cretins should go home and do their homework or something. I think their mothers are calling.

From truthout just now ... :(


http://www.truthout.org/campcaseydc.shtml


Who are these Black Bloc people? Who paid them to do this? Who do the represent? :tinfoilhat:

[NVMojo]

1. they were probably paid by some Rove fund ...

[CountAllVotes]

2. so you share my

:tinfoilhat:

I was thinking the exact same thing - too white and too rich.

:kick:

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Ayuh

------------------------------------------------------------------
Peace Rally SUPER THREAD:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4870788

Save this nation one town, county, and state at a time:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[goclark]

34. Paid by Rove

[MADem]

4. Yep, sounds that way to me, too

Putzes!!!

[justiceischeap]

5. I posted this response in another thread

You are giving this adminsitration too much credit. They don't have everyone in their back pocket. Some people are just assholes. Just like ANSWER hi-jacks anti-war protests to sprout pro communist fodder, Black Bloc kids have their own agenda.

Let's not forget that there was no coverage in the 60's-70's of the peaceful protests but when violence became a factor, then the coverage began and the message was getting heard.

Sometimes to end violence, as history has proven, you must use violence.

[WilliamPitt]

6. "when violence became a factor..."

...Nixon won by a landslide in '72.

[MADem]

7. Shaking your fist at Mickey D's is not gonna end a war

...and it will not get you a Big Mac, either.

That's just disruption for disruption's sake, having nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I love the DC cops, laughter was the best medicine for those little shits.

[MrBenchley]

8. But what comes out of the dog's ass is a turd...

"Sometimes to end violence, as history has proven, you must use violence. "
And snotty white shitheads turning over a dumpster won't "end violence" any more than it will "fly to the moon."

[lildreamer316]

9. I would like to have a serious discussion of this principle.

I went to a Quaker school and so was taught that there was almost always a peaceful solution to everything. I see that this does not SEEM to work in the world, but would love to be convinced otherwise,a la "The Chalice and The Blade". Anyone?

[Fatima]

15. Worked for Gandhi.

Keep your Quaker beliefs alive. If you can't get it without violence, then you're not ready for it yet.

[lildreamer316]

19. I can wrap my mind around that

It is just that having a child brought out my protective side so strongly that.......well; you know how it can be.

[skooooo]

33. Ghandi.....

...was murdered. There was lots of violence in response to his "non-violent protests"

[mondo joe]

42. You might have missed the part in which he acccomplished his goals

before being murdered, and the violence in response to his methods was HOW he won.

[skooooo]

44. exactly

my point is that there seems to be no easy way.

[mondo joe]

45. No one said there's an EASY way. But there are better and worse ways. n/t

[lapislzi]

54. Operative words: "Almost always"

I spent 10 years in South Africa during the 1980s, and was privileged to vote in its first election. I did not vote for Nelson Mandela.

Why?

Because the ANC never renounced the armed struggle, and I could not support violence, even against the apartheid regime.

I may have been wrong.

Like you, I would like to be convinced that the same ends can be achieved peacefully. I have not witnessed this in the history that I have lived through.

If I had the choice again, I might vote differently.

[TreasonousBastard]

85. Then you know a bit about the Lamb's War...

and how a shooting war must have two participants.

We do teach peace and reconciliation, and while we do believe that virtually everything can and should have a peaceful solution, we note, sadly, that not everyone is a Quaker or believes as we do, and such attempts fail all too often.

[CountAllVotes]

10. well 60s/70s different time

Many things going on - not going on now. But yes, it was violence AND THE DRAFT that brought things to a halt. Impeaching tricky dick was the final sign that the war was perhaps over.

I remember it well - my father went to the march with me because he had a son, aged 18 - lottery. Uh huh ...

Maybe another draft is what it will take. Or a hell of a lot more deaths that no one counts until we all degrade to nothing.

:kick:

[Garbo 2004]

12. Which is why of course BushInc is going to great lengths not to draft.n/t

[CountAllVotes]

16. as time goes on and people get out of the service

and they have no new enlistees - there will have to be a draft. We are very lean on troops as it stands now.

So a draft will have to happen by force.

aka Lottery #2 = what day of the year were you born?


:kick:

[FreedomAngel82]

13. People are already against the war now

I don't think we need a draft. We need to get rid of the pro-war asses in the House and Senate. As long as they're there and making the dough there will be war. They don't care what the public thinks anymore.

[justiceischeap]

32. That's all I was saying

I don't condone the violence, I'm all about compassion for all living beings, I'm just saying that when things erupted in the US in the 60's-70's and blood started running on American streets, the tide started turning. Doesn't make it right but that's what happened.

[rman]

88. one word: Ghandi

"as history has proven"

[blondeatlast]

48. Yup. nt

[MrBenchley]

11. Worth noting that the LaRouche'rs used to do this kind of crap

and sometimes attacked other groups during the Viet Nam years....

[Fatima]

14. If you google Black Bloc,

you read that they are loosly organized groups of "anarchists" and "revolutionaries" who appear at various events and protests. They generally make asses of themselves everywhere they go, and I'll bet good money if you pointed a real gun at them, they'd go running home to Mommy and Daddy with wet britches...

Sadly, these are the punks the MSM love to focus on, not the families and nuns and old people and veterans and other good peaceful Americans who make up the bulk of these events.

[CountAllVotes]

17. hmm ...

Well that is who they are thought to be. I still do not know.

:shrug:

In any event, we don't need these types of asshole punk kids at a peace march!

:kick:

[AmyDeLune]

20. We have a group of "anarchists" around here too

it has gotten to the point where even the most peaceful demonstrators toss their ski-masked cowardly asses out if they show up at a protest. They are the first to cause disruption in the name of "anarchy" and the first to scream loudly about their "rights" as the police they just assaulted haul them off to jail.

[whistle]

18. Sound like 21st century brown shirts....ultra white supremacists

<edit>
Looks like they are a known and organized movement. After reading the link I'm still not impressed and I really think they are a subversive group of readical extremists bent on causing major conflict. The masks are a dead give-away, just like the hoods for KKK members.

http://www.infoshop.org/blackbloc_faq.html

[omega minimo]

21. Is this condescending sneering more effective than Black Bloc antics?

Like the man said--

Be the change you want to see in the world.



Mebbe Black Bloc are set up-- mebbe not. Mebbe the old folks that know better can bring their perspective to a cohesive movement that defies infiltration and media manipulation.

Now THAT would be something.

[DTinAZ]

23. There's no "sneering" here...only valid frustration

The anarchists and "Black Bloc" types who disrupt and distract from important protests are not being "sneered" at. If you've been to a protest of any kind in recent years, you've seen how they are a bunch of spoiled white kids looking for attention...they'd be better off bashing each other's brains out in a mosh pit somewhere. They're *not* welcome at legitimate protest actions, period.

[omega minimo]

25. I referred to the tone of Mr. Pitts post-- he was also in the heat of the

moment.

"they'd be better off bashing each other's brains out in a mosh pit somewhere. They're *not* welcome at legitimate protest actions, period."

If those-who-think-they-know-better are so quick to write off a generation of youth energy that WANTS to participate in co-creating our future.............................................

Please see my post just below.

[DTinAZ]

30. not a generation....just the anarchist types

Sorry, but you mischaracterized Pitt's post, and mine also. Nobody is talking about writing off "a generation of youth energy." If the spoiled brats we're talking about actually *want* to participate in co-creating our future, then they'd better find a more constructive way of doing so. Until they do, they're only hampering the efforts, not helping.

[omega minimo]

31. Typing is divisive

So is condescension. (We see this in the occasional generation wars threads on DU)

"...then they'd better find a more constructive way of doing so."

Maybe they need some help.

[DTinAZ]

53. you type, I type, we all type!

Quoth omega, "smug, overeducated, spoiled yippies-who-turned-into-yuppies..."

Those of us who disagree with you aren't necessarily smug, spoiled, or even old enough to have been yippies. This isn't condecension, and it isn't a generation war. It's valid complaining about an identifiable (hence, the stereotyping) group whose presence at protests and demonstrations are *not* in the least bit helpful to the important causes involved.

It's highly unlikely that the people we're discussing would be at all interested in, or willing to accept any help from their elders.

[mondo joe]

35. Don't confuse this with "youth energy". You insult youths.

This has nothing to do with youth.

[omega minimo]

50. No I didn't. And sure it does.

And this thread reinforces the perceived blind spot in some segments of DU that show up in the occasional generation-war threads.

I don't think any of us here know exactly who or what we're talking about. We do know there is "youth energy."

I am suggesting-- and will repeat from another post:

"Mebbe the old folks that know better can bring their perspective to a cohesive movement that defies infiltration and media manipulation. Now THAT would be something."

[mondo joe]

60. Untrue. MOST youths don't act out in this way. Blaming their shit on

being youthful is dishonest, and irresponsible.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Is that participating?

Running down the street SEVERAL BLOCKS AWAY from the main protest? Throwing shit in the street?

Spare me your indignation. What they do has always been, and will always be, self-destructive bullshit.

[omega minimo]

57. Mr. Pitt! I am not indignant nor attempting to defend or justify BB BS

As noted above, you posted in the heat of it, with all rights to your perspective.

I was surprised that the thread took such a violent turn, as it complained about mindless violence.

I commented on the tone you took-- let me pick up with "I think their mothers are calling." If these troublemakers are actually on the side of peace and progress, does it help for peace and progress to demonize and write 'em off and suggest (as below) they need to "taste a police baton"?

I repeat:

"Is there any chance that some of these "spoiled" kids are an expression of the same energy of activism as in the past; that it could be unperverted and redirected for more effective, even peaceful, means?

"I don't think adults who created the conditions have much credibility judging and mocking the youth that react to those conditions. Have they been offered other real alternatives to the mindless violence they are acting out?"

:bleedingheartliberalclichesmilie:

:hi:

[DTinAZ]

64. in a word, no

You repeated:

"Is there any chance that some of these 'spoiled' kids are an expression of the same energy of activism as in the past; that it could be unperverted and redirected for more effective, even peaceful, means?"

No. I lived in Germany in the early 80's, and so I was there to observe the predecessors of this current plague of anarchists. They are violent, self-centered (yes, "spoiled"), and incorrigible. It's far better to let the police arrest them, and the prosecutors to put them away than to tolerate them at protests.

[Telly Savalas]

58. I respectfully disagree.

Turning over dumpsters and smashing the windows of small businesses is a critical part of social progress. We should capture this revolutionary spirit in our everyday lives by littering at every opportunity we have. When proletarians getting paid six an hour have to clean up the mess I make, it awakens their revolutionary conciousness.

I speak truth to power whenever I throw my chewing gum on the sidewalk, fart in an elevator, or urinate in public.

While you little liberal pansies waste your time trying to make the world a better place, I'm going to demonstrate how much more radical I am than you.

[WilliamPitt]

59. I think I'm a radical

because I just peed on myself a little bit reading that. :)

[blondeatlast]

93. I love you Telly, I really do.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rman]

86. You must be happy BB got all the media attention

at the expense of media attention for the non-violent majority of the demonstrators.

[omega minimo]

92. You must be kidding

....yourself anyway.

:puke:

For the record, it has been a long time since I have been on a DU thread with the onslaught of knee-jerk, black and white, uninformed hostility as on this thread.

It must be that the senseless violence of the Black Bloc makes people see red and all discussion is over.

I invite any of you misrepresenting my comments to read the posts (at least once) before jumping to stunted conclusions.

It seemed strange last night that the threads in GD and GDP after the Big Day were mainly photos (appreciated) and carping (not). And the carping contributed to more divisiveness on DU (as shown here)

Here is who deserves your self-righteousness and wrath:

[architect359]

94. I think that you're generalizing

...the disagreement here concerns the Black Bloc participants not an entire generation. Besides, with those masks, who's to tell for sure that they are all of one generation? Just saying... you know?

[omega minimo]

98. I think you're fishing

for information. And yer right, the generalizations were in a range of discussion-- not black and white.

Lydia Leftcoast made the point:

70. Almost certainly provocateurs

"They were at the Seattle WTO protests too and got all the publicity while the 15,000 people who marched peacefully were ignored.

"I saw provocateurs in Portland a couple of years ago, and it seemed to be a team effort. A couple of "anarchists" started rocking a police car and seemed to be egging other people on to help overturn it."


Are Black Bloc set up to provoke?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackieO]

66. "they need to get gangraped" "should be beaten bloody"

That's really disgusting.

[omega minimo]

24. Wow. An amazing amount of violent attitudes expressed on this thread

I don't agree with Black Bloc tactics. And I don't understand the unfounded assumptions here about "rich, spoiled, tattooed white kids."

Why do you assume you(all) know who they are as you admit you don't know who they are?

Who are we to decide who the "real" punks are any more than who the "real" progressives or the "real" democrats are?

Well, here's my peacefully-arrogant personal opinion:

If all the smug, overeducated, spoiled hippies-who-turned-into-yuppies had listened to the "real" punks over the last 25 years and DONE something about the hijacking of this nation WHEN THERE WAS STILL TIME, we wouldn't be in the bloody mess we're in now.

:hi:

[zulchzulu]

28. It's when you actually see them in a march you participated in that...

...you understand that they need a nice, tall can of whoopass on their spoiled asses.

I remember seeing them pulling off antics in SF in the 2002-2003 marches where they would smash windows of mom and pop businesses that had nothing to do with the war and spray graffiti on buildings. They'd yell at people who participated in the march thinking that they were somehow making a point.

They sucked. People cheered as they were arrested. Were they going to pay for the windows they broke, the damage to buildings from graffiti and whatever other spoiled bullshit they did. Not if they could help it.

They are out to discredit the peace march...pure and simple. They should be treated like a Rethug that tries to rip down a sign...give them a nice fat punch in the mouth and knock out their teeth.

Maybe they'd learn a lesson for once in their life.

[omega minimo]

29. Noted duly.

Also noted is the Massive Irony in your closer:

"They are out to discredit the peace march...pure and simple. They should be treated like a Rethug that tries to rip down a sign...give them a nice fat punch in the mouth and knock out their teeth."

:rofl:

RE: "Maybe they'd learn a lesson for once in their life.

I don't know who these "kids" are. By the age group tho, one thing we might acknowledge is that they grew up in the height of the doublethink state of the nation; they grew up with Columbine just a blip on the screen that did nothing to change the course of the nation except to deepen the encroaching police state; they grew up with (maybe in their own homes) the apparent contradictions/hypocrisy of the hippie/yuppie generation......

Musta been tough. Is there any chance that some of these "spoiled" kids are an expression of the same energy of activism as in the past; that it could be unperverted and redirected for more effective, even peaceful, means?

I don't think adults who created the conditions have much credibility judging and mocking the youth that react to those conditions. Have they been offered other real alternatives to the mindless violence they are acting out?

[mondo joe]

39. You assume the youth are merely "reacting" to their conditions.

This is clearly not the case, and robs all youth of any self-direction.

[omega minimo]

52. You assume you know what I assume?

on top of missing the point?

Assume makes an :kick: out of you :evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

61. No - I reference your own statements, fallacious as they may be.

Get a clue.

[omega minimo]

68. Thank you

Your limited comprehension and misunderstanding of my comments inspires you to hostility, belligerence and insults-- aptly proving my original point.

How different is that response from the blind, frustrated and impotent rage of thoughtless, threatened youths randomly striking out?

[LeftyMom]

41. Yeah but that's no excuse

As far as I can tell those kids (and they may be grown up, but they are kids until thier actions prove otherwise) are generally about my age (I'm 24) and they grew up in the same era my friends and I did. We dealt with Reagan and hippie turned establishment parents and all that crap and so far none of us have done any of the stupid shit they pull and I can't see any of us becoming weekend revolutionaries. Being young may excuse being stupid sometimes, but it doesn't excuse being that stupid over and over again.

So maybe you guys don't get to criticize them because they're young (and I don't really agree with that) but I certainly can. They're fucking idiots, they're hurting the anti-war cause and if I ever meet any of them I'll happily tell them I think so.

[mondo joe]

43. What, don't you like being told you have no mind of your own but only

"react" to what you grow up in?

I wouldn't either - what a fucking insult to your generation.

[Telly Savalas]

51. Hmm.

I don't think adults who created the conditions have much credibility judging and mocking the youth that react to those conditions.

By this logic, older DUers should refrain from all criticism of Young Republicans.

[mondo joe]

37. They did the same crap at the WTO protests in Seattle - terrorizing poor

people who lived in the area and even closing down a public market that is nothing but independently ownes shops and social service agencies!

[SeattleGirl]

55. Yes they did, and I am STILL pissed off about it!

Breaking windows, turning over garbage cans, throwing trash, defacing buildings. How DARE they come into my city and try to destroy it? Some of them had no idea at all what WTO is, or why there was a protest; they just wanted to show up and create trouble. I'm with WillPitt on this.

[FyurFly]

38. I agree 100%

These punk kids discredit the anti-war protest and give the media easy fodder to label all of the other peaceful protesters (who greatly out number them) as vandals etc. These Black Bloc punks need to taste a police baton.

[FyurFly]

74. Shameless bump

yea and BTW get the troops out of Iraq, I don't wont more soldiers to die, but FUCK ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!

[eridani]

91. There's one question that the "anarchists" can't answer

Tell them that COINTELPRO agents paid people to commit violent acts on behalf of the antiwar movement in the 60s and 70s, and then ask them what's so "revolutionary" about doing for free what their counterparts used to get paid for, it's <crickets>

[manic expression]

100. Please....

When white supremacists toting Confederate Flags protested against African immigration, who showed up to oppose them and their racist views? BLACK BLOC. That's who. Say what you want, but not everything they do is worthless. And another thing: the anti-war movement in the 60's did the EXACT SAME STUFF.

Although I disagree with them on a lot of things, I appreciate the energy. Perhaps we should try to use it better.

[mondo joe]

36. What utter bullshit.

If people had "listened" to the "'real' punks" what is the message they would have heard?

Be specific.

[ForrestGump]

46. Be yourself. At least, if it pays well.

Punk was a sham. These doofi are just coddled brats indulged by those who idealize the 'excesses of youth.' They need to be removed from the scene -- vandals of that sort are not progressive by any stretch of the imagination.

And, yeah, lots of us are against the war, the maladministration, and hope (as futile as it may be) for peace and an ideal society one day, but we're not by any means pacifist and it's no surprise that we'd view a good smack to the mouth as a necessary part of schooling these little spoiled f***wits in the realities of life. Actions have consequences...think otherwise and you're dabbling in the same league with George W. Bush and his fellow sociopaths.

[rman]

87. Tattoos and piercings are not cheap -

the down-throtten can not afford it.
They'd probably scour the trashcans for scraps rather then throw m into the streets.

[Piperay]

26. They are out for a good time

these types have been at rallys like this going back 30-40 years. It's great fun for them cause they get to 'act out' and do it for a noble cause. x( :mad:

[AnnieBW]

27. They Protest Against Capitalism

Until their Daddies' trust fund runs out! :D These jerks descend on DC every time the IMF or WB meets, and use it as an excuse for vandalism. I've nicknamed them "seagulls", because they fly in, make a lot of noise, crap all over everything, and then leave.

[mondo joe]

40. What they did at the WTO protests was horrible. They made downtown

Seattle a war zone, which hurt the people who work in restaurants and shops, and was hell the many low-income and elderly people who live there.

[Piperay]

47. Yes and

they did irreparable damage to the movement also. :mad:

[ragin_acadian]

56. They caused a disturbance near the Hostel that we are staying

at. They pushed over newspaper stands and tore down a 6' chain link construction fence.

Brought the police to the Hostel.

[Cocoa]

62. anger is a gift

suck on RATM, old dude! :-)

or is RATM now considered old dude music. :scared:

[omega minimo]

63. My apologies

I apologize for:

--not thinking in black and white like you do (except those of you with grey areas)

--trying to point out the irony of objecting to violent actions by suggesting violent actions

--questioning the effectiveness of creating more divisiveness in the progressive movement

--pointing out that the actual Punk movement (not the poseurs) have been warning for decades against the dangerous position this nation is in

--bringing up that touchy What The Hell Happened To The Hippie Generation? thing

--suggesting that we are responsible to following generations for the world that we leave them in

--advocating that we draw on all our generational perspectives and resources to create a cohesive movement that resists infiltration and media manipulation

--providing the opportunity for you to misunderstand and think I am defending Black Bloc tactics

--not knowing when to use :sarcasm:

--making you think

:evilgrin: :hi:

[DTinAZ]

67. they're not in *our* movement...that's the whole point

"questioning the effectiveness of creating more divisiveness in the progressive movement"

The people who we're talking about are NOT part of the "progressive movement." They promote anarchy, which isn't at all "progressive." They are often violent, which isn't "progressive." They are far worse than counter-demonstrators, for they detract from the "progressive movement." The sooner they're hauled off in a paddy wagon and not available for the TV cameras, the better.

[omega minimo]

69. They are an expression of the movement

What is "our" movement? Who is included? Who is excluded? (Again I DO NOT condone BB tactics)

Do they all look/think/act like us? (Again I DO NOT condone BB tactics)

Any successful movement of the past has drawn together various groups and concerns. (Again I DO NOT condone BB tactics)

Again I advocate "that we draw on all our generational perspectives and resources to create a cohesive movement that resists infiltration and media manipulation"

Simply dismissing the outrage and mindless violence of some youths seems like a blind spot-- especially when accompanied by calls for more mindless violence (some of the posts here seem like plants or a parody of I-don't-know-what-mindset).

[FyurFly]

71. Very weak argument for thugs n/t

[omega minimo]

72. Very weak reading comprehension skills

Please see "My apologies"

Welcome to DU :hi:

[blondeatlast]

95. are you ever condescending! Must you be right at all costs?

Never mind--you've already answered that.

[omega minimo]

97. Discussion is not a competition. Not about being "right" for me

I will object to being misinterpreted and misrepresented by those who don't seem to have actually read any of my comments.

I would bow out of this retarded argument. It was not my intention to provide a whipping post (ha!) for those who want to vent AT Black Bloc boneheads.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

76. People harassing innocents are a part of our movement?

Think again.

They don't share the goals of the anti-war movement.

They're just lazy parasites who don't give a shit about anyone.

[omega minimo]

80. No thank you

Your limited comprehension and misunderstanding of my comments inspires you to hostility, belligerence and insults-- aptly proving my original point.

How different is that response from the blind, frustrated and impotent rage of thoughtless, threatened youths randomly striking out?

[mondo joe]

81. Thank you for excusing young republicans.

It's their Youthful Energy, as you point out, and their reaction to the world they've grown up in.

:eyes:

And if you really need to have the difference between posting words on a message board and making innocent people fear for their safety, you are as pathetic as they are.

[omega minimo]

84. Well, I have to admit

your words are as incomprehensible to me as mine are to you.

"And if you really need to have the difference between posting words on a message board and making innocent people fear for their safety, you are as pathetic as they are."

:shrug:

[WilliamPitt]

75. Such a martyr

:eyes:

[omega minimo]

78. Such a smarty

B-)

Can't we all just get along? :evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

82. More justifying white priviliged males bullying everyone else.

Boys will be boys. :eyes:

[Dover]

65. "they traveled in a clot"............!!!

Those five words are pretty much all I need to know to get the picture....lol!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. Almost certainly provocateurs

They were at the Seattle WTO protests too and got all the publicity while the 15,000 people who marched peacefully were ignored.

I saw provocateurs in Portland a couple of years ago, and it seemed to be a team effort. A couple of "anarchists" started rocking a police car and seemed to be egging other people on to help overturn it.

Fortunately, the rest of the crowd had too much sense and actually pulled the "revolutionaries" off the cop car.

It was at the planning for that protest that one young man kept insisting that we should all get violent. During the coffee break, I found that I was not the only one who had pegged him as a provocateur.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

73. I can only speak...

about the San Francisco Black Bloc. I have been going to marches for various causes for many, many years here, and if there was a real anarchist among them I would eat my shoe.

They show up for every -- and I do mean every -- large politically oriented (and sometimes non-politically oriented) gathering, including reproductive choice and anti-prop L marches I have gone to. They do not care what the focus of the gathering is.

They have one purpose and one purpose only: to dance with the cops every chance they get. Nothing else. No agenda. No angst. No disaffected youth bullshit.

They are overwhelming white. Overwhelmingly male. And overwhelmingly late teens to early 20s.

I went to todays march and, as usual, they were there. They remind me of an old Hollywood saying, "He would go to the opening of an envelope." That's them, the SF Black Bloc.

But I want to tell you about some other folks I saw marching. There were thousands of truly angry, truly driven youth who never felt it neccessary to smash/spray paint things/dance with the cops who were there to make their presence and feelings known.

I completely respect those young people for their passion.

The Black Bloc? :eyes: :boring:

[genieroze]

77. The same people who protested the Florida recount.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. I've been wondering what those kids were up to

since they ran amok on Market Street in SF and hijacked press coverage of peaceful 100K+ marches.

This was how the press coverage played out, although obviously the Media takes some blame as well.. "Protests in San Francisco Turn Violent": You had 5 minutes given to the 100,000 people at the actual protest, 5 minutes given to the 50 or so freep "counter protesters", and then 20 minutes given to these asshole children running down Market street breaking shit.

Wooo-Hooo! Anarchy! Smash The State, Brah! Punk Rawk!

Fuckin' Imbeciles. Yeah, break some windows in McDonalds, that'll really show those CEOs somethin'.

Nevermind that it's a poor schlub making minimum wage who's gonna have to sweep up that glass. It's civil service postal employees who are going to have to deal with the mailboxes that were lit on fire....

But... Smash the State! Punk RRRRRRRAWK!

SCREW those people.

[gardenista]

83. I've seen these idiots in action in SF.

Will describes the to a "T".

Misguided trust fund kids led by a few assholes on the Rove payroll.

[expatriot]

89. Way to go, Will. Very well said.

And it needs to be said more often.

I will go further. As progressives we need to communicate the fact that we are about as closely ideologically affiliated with anarchists as we are with fascists.

[JoMama49]

96. I was horrified last friday night to hear a small news blurb on the

Kron 4 news here in sf. they were announcing the coming d.c. war protest march on saturday leading off with this story:

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=3669036

SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) -- KRON 4 News has obtained a copy of the 9-1-1 and police dispatch tapes that recorded events surrounding the beating of a San Francisco police officer.

Officer Peter Shields was attacked during a political protest in the Mission District, allegedly by suspected anarchist protesters on July 8.

the woman anchor then went on to talk about another "protest march" taking place in washington, as well as sf tomorrow, as if this anarchist group who call themselves "Anarchist Action Network" are the ones staging the whole protest!

i wouuldn't be surprised at all if some of these anarchist groups are plants from the right wing. how hard would it be to gather up a bunch of emotionally damaged kids and send them on a mission? Then the msm uses this violence to label all protestors.

[jonnyblitz]

90. delete

nevermind :eyes:

[Toasted_Halo]

99. Forget them!

They've done this shit before. Everybody ignores them. Even the police laugh at them.