Did A.N.S.W.E.R. make the march a net plus or a net minus ?

[kentuck]

From what I've read thus far, many people seem to think they diluted the message and reflected negatively on the march as a whole? Is that an accurate read? Does that all of us part of a fringe group? Did anything credible come from the march? Just curious....

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Given the lack of media coverge I would say it was a neutral

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[obxhead]

2. We got a whole lot of people to become active.

If nothing else I would say that's a huge step.
Although from what I saw on cspan, I wish A.N.S.W.E.R. had a smaller role in todays speeches.

[Seeking Serenity]

7. The speakers who kept referring to the people in crowd as "comrades"

isn't going to help attracting the squishy middle.

Before you start, I know the dictionary definition of of the word, and I also know with what the word is commonly associated.

[Another Bill C.]

3. It fired up the choir

but not many others were aware of it.

[gristy]

4. A.N.S.W.E.R. does not speak for me

I want this bush fucker out of the white house. That's all I want. That's all I want. Everything else dilutes the message. Everything else puts the cart before the horse.

[Chicago Democrat]

5. Hey, they're Communists and Everything from Palestinians and Your Grandma!

Its a BROAD COALITION..

YES IT SCARES AWAY:


Senators
Congressmen
Mayors
ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS

Why? Sorry folks... its the PLO and the Communists... -please- go away.. or at least be quiet. Frankly I believe the Anti-war movement needs to DIVORCE ITSELF from these official sponsorships . Its a non-starter. Are they trying to sabotage our antiwar movement? I dont think so, but they are doing us no favors.

[SlowDownFast]

12. Completely agree.

While watching CSPAN today, I was fucking burning when all the anti-Israel, pro-PLO-Haiti-Cuba-Phillipine-Communist bullshit just kept coming and coming and coming.

I was like, "here we go AGAIN.."

Fuck off, A.N.S.W.E.R. You're fucking it up for everyone.

[Chicago Democrat]

22. Thank you comrade!

I appreciate knowing my views are not alone.

[Greenpeach]

23. I tend to agree

It was great seeing and hearing Cindy and Jesse but when aaaallll those others came on it did dilute the message. If there were any let's say non-democrats watching who might've been moved or even swayed, some of what those guys were saying was all they'd need to tune out. Why couldn't we've stayed "On message?"

[TankLV]

53. I heartly agree.

No need to say anymore here.

[Mairead]

50. I'd recommend that you read some history.

It was the commies and socialists, not the people like you, who got and kept the social-justice movement going from the 1880s through the 1930s. They were the ones who put their lives on the line--and quite often lost them--to get us the 40-hour week, social security, public-health hospitals, the safety net for poor families, etc. The wealthy elites didn't finally knuckle under out of the goodness of their hearts (they haven't any), but because FDR rubbed their noses in the writing on the wall: "a socialist revolution is coming!".

So when you've done a better job of organising street action than those college commies on their shoestring budget, then you'll have room to talk. Right now, your credibility is equal to your organising record: zero.

[Chicago Democrat]

58. Its a different age, Chairman Mao is discredited and so are "communists"

Excuse me but I thought this was Cindy's march?! If anything, Rovian plants have hijacked the "communists" and this whole 'dilution' is really a 5th column within the peace movement to DESTROY IT.

Who is to say that only when Stalinist ANSWER asks for a protest permit it is majically given? I honestly don't believe that entirely, but IT MIGHT AS WELL BE TRUE FOR ALL THE GOOD COMMUNISTS ARE DOING FOR OUR MOVEMENT!

As for organizing myself, I DO PLENTY! LOCALLY! MONTHLY!

So ANSWER MY QUESTION: What GOOD is LENIN for the peace movement of 2005? Who should we kill first? Do you understand that communism advocates violent revolution? Do you wanna get us all killed? Do you believe in the Democratic Party?

[Mairead]

61. No, it's not a different age. It's the same one, back again.

When you can do better than ANSWER, you'll have the right to criticise. Til then, you don't.

(And ANSWER gets their permits the same way everyone else could: they demand them early, and go to court if the government drag their feet)

[Chicago Democrat]

67. Except they're communists... so disappointing Kucinich wasn't there...

hmmmm wonder why?

[Mairead]

68. He hasn't been out there about very much, lately. I'm disappointed.

But your ColdWarrior(tm) "they're communists" is both stale and laughable--these are kids, mostly USAian, not shock troops from ComIntern or trained SpetsNaz killers. They're college commies, trying to figure out how to un-fsck the world they see around them.

[Chicago Democrat]

69. Yes! Exactly (I was a communist when I was 18 too!) cept after I figured

out that 'real communists' actually start revolutions and killed rich people and take their stuff. Central American wars cured me.. Violence is not the solution.


I am much more upset about Kucinich's no show than I am communists. ALL I WANT IS NO COMMUNIST SPONSORSHIP. HOW ABOUT PLAN OLD DEMOCRATS SPONSORING A PEACE MARCH? PLEASE DENNNIS KUCINICH! WHERE ARE YOU?!!

[bonito]

6. I'm equally concerned about the effect, but I give it a + n/t

[blue neen]

8. The march was absolutely a plus.

IMHO, ANSWER's dilution lasted for about an hour and a half today. The FIRST hour and a half that I saw of the rally was well-planned and definitely on message. It was so good to see Jesse Jackson speaking with passion again. Cindy Sheehan was inspiring, as always. I think that UFPJ was handling that part of the rally (the earliest part).

Nothing can take away from the fact that half a million people from all walks of life were marching to end this illegal war. I cried when I saw it. ANSWER will not be the image I remember of this historic day.

That being said, ANSWER needs to STFU if they are not going to use common sense.

[shraby]

18. Answer does get people together in one spot

and that's what we really needed. A huge showing like that has got to be a plus.

[blue neen]

20. Agreed. They deserve credit for that.

Today's rally and march was historic. It was a plus and it was overwhelmingly positive.

I just think that they needed to "choose their battles" (for lack of a better term!) for today. The protest against the Iraq war is a unifying cause, something that everyone "gets."

[txaslftist]

66. You mean you don't like free form communist poetry?

How suburban of you .

[laura888]

9. Would it have been better to have no protest today?

I'd say - the more protests the better.

Kudos to ANSWER to pulling it off.

For the complainers - organize your own protest first - then knock the others down.

[gristy]

19. if A.N.S.W.E.R. were not there or were to step aside, the vacuum would be

filled in an instant. A friggin instant. But they ARE there, and any protest organization has to deal with THEM first. That is the challenge. That is the problem.

[Tinoire]

26. Really? Very interesting. 364 other days with a gaping vaccuum

when ANSWER isn't holding a protest and I don't see all you critics leaping from your chairs to fill that vaccuum.

So much for your "frigging instant".

LMFAO. :rofl:

Armchair critics who criticize because they have no wish to ACT. That is the problem..

[gristy]

29. right....

Yes, you are right. UFPJ or Code Pink or the DC Anti-War Network or Coalition for Peace Action or the Green Party could never pull off such a protest on their own or in combination. They must have ANSWER to help them, because the others are just clueless, don't know how to organize, and they wouldn't have the support of the people since their message just isn't mainstream.

:sarcasm:

[Tinoire]

30. 364 days a year to fill a vaccuum. No answer forthcoming ?

:rofl:

Your frigging instant... where is it? Why the vaccuum 364 days a year when ANSWER isn't out there? Don't worry though, I'm not holding my breath for a lucid answer. These anti-ANSWER threads are always hysterical.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Couldn't agree more with you on that, Tinoire...

The anti-ANSWER threads are hysterical, but reading some today has just totally disgusted me. Who needs conservatives to attack the anti-war effort when there's so many on the left who are willing to do it themselves?

And I'd like to hear the answer on why on the other 364 days a year there's no large protests organised by anyone else. Because I strongly believe that if someone wants to sit and complain about ANSWER organising an anti-war protest, then they should get off their arse and work towards organising one themselves...

Violet...

[Tinoire]

48. I'm not sure any of those critics are 'really' "on the Left"

Trying to blend in & pretend they are- for sure... but really with us? - LMAO!! The tired cut'n'paste rhetoric is too recognizable. You'll never get them off their arse to organize anything because there's nothing there to organize without exposing their hypocrisy to the world.

Scaredy cats with no message other than Vichy Collaboration and that won't go over too well on the streets. Easier to hide behind keyboards and launch pathethic vitriol from there.

Note how many of these comments are coming from the "well there's a wall but it's not apartheid" and the "you can vote for the war without voting forthe war" crowds. :rofl:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. Uh....

I can tell you right now, just about all those groups were at the march I went to here in SF. We have been having coalition marches for years now here in SF.

And I can tell you that NONE of thsoe groups have pulled off the number of marches/number of attendess that a coalition march with ANSWER has pulled off.

I have long ago gotten over my ANSWER phobia. I'm sorry you haven't.

[Tinoire]

45. Armchair warriors (to be charitable) What more to say? n/t

[TankLV]

54. That's it in a nutshell.

Who ya gonna believe, your wishes or past results?

I'll believe a solid track record of RESULTS over WISHES any day.

If wishes were fishes...

[Poll_Blind]

10. Alot of different groups came together to oust Bush. Net plus! n/t

PB

[Rick Myers]

11. Fairly neutral...

Only CSPAN covered them, and they even showed the masses had moved off while they blathered on... Funny, since the later speakers were much better than the middle group that droned on more than an hour...

But, we're sharing the stage, and a coalition is important, ask Dubya's Poppy!!!

:kick:

[blue neen]

13. The speaker from Haiti who used the pronunciation "BOOSH".

That was classic. I think that might be my new way of saying Bush's name! It is apropos.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. It was horrid

Those "speakers" and those "poets" and all that extraneous, marginal stuff that might matter to a few made me cringe while I watched C-Span. It was so badly done, it smacked of disrespect to the people who might have been listening or watching.

It all would have been so much more effective if it had just been a big march, with signs, and no speakers.

[salinger]

65. herding cats

I was at the march and I can't agree more -

until there is a unifying goal we'll still just be seen as fringe lunatics by ma and pa in indiana.

seemed folks were more interested in stage time than change - the swirling olio of disparate causes watered down the effect of 200,000 folks fed up with this administration.

in the meantime the neo cons are able to pick and choose the looniest soundbites and discredit the real majority that opposes these crooks and liars.

instead of 40 different causes being shouted in 80 different directions a single unifying banner of IMPEACH BUSH would have been much more effective. headlines read: hundreds of thousands call for presidents removal...

the right has kicked our asses by distilling their messages (truthful or not) into easy to digest soundbites.

until the left learns this lesson we still be marching on the outside looking in.

of 'course I'll be in line with you.

salinger

[Alizaryn]

15. THEY were not the problem I don't think.

I just stopped listening to them when I hit overload.

What I saw as the basic problem was that the only media coverage we had, CSPAN, covered the "rally speeches" EXCLUSIVELY which in my opinion took away the great opportunity of showing the country and world the 100,000 plus Americans marching against Bush and his war.

I didn't agree with some of what ANSWER was promoting, was ignorant about other things and agreed with some, that really wasn't the problem, how I felt was irrelevant it is how this three hour CSPAN time block was IMO greatly wasted.

[stillcool]

16. A raging success....

in my eyes and my heart-felt thanks to ALL who participated. I really don't care how it plays in Peoria, or how Tweety will play it...I care that hundreds of thousands of people showed up in Washington and around the world to say 'No More'. If you would like me to find fault with a particular speaker...i'm sorry...i guess i'm not politically savvy enough to be as judgemental as DU.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillcool]

34. Did you want to say something...

or was that snide little comment just for effect? Arrogant...indeed...need a mirror?

[EFerrari]

35. Hmmm. I think not strong enough.

I think, I don't give a flying f8ck how it plays in Peoria.

When Peoria mobilizes, I'll back THEM.

When paper tigers get off their rears, I'll join THEM.

Until then, Comrade, I thank ANSWER.

Geezus on a trailerhitch.

[Selatius]

49. Nice little attack on a fellow poster there, buddy

Time to hit the alert button.

[TankLV]

55. Self deleted.

[Q]

17. Headline: 100,000 show up to protest the Iraq 'war'...

...and that's all people will remember.

[MisterP]

21. moderate plus, though not on their own, of course

[SunDrop23]

25. I've been debating that as I watch the replay.

[reprehensor]

27. Plus.

One of the biggest anti-war rallies since the Vietnam era.

Nuff said.

[jim3775]

28. Based on what I saw on CSPAN net minus, but...

based on what actually happened small plus.

Protesting is good, getting anti-war democrats elected is much much better. That means getting involved in the primaries and the election. Pick a candidate and then volunteer, donate, organize, hold meetups and talk about it on the internet. Protests don't really change anything, elections do.

[Donailin]

31. It didn't matter at all. Out of the 300,000 people who attended

I would wager that MAYBE 20,000 actually heard them.

The logistics of this event were just not conducive to everyone hearing the same thing at the same time. The stage was set up at the ellipse, but only a small percentage could actually fit in that area. Most people were on the surrounding streets where we awaited the march.

We had to hack our way over to the stage of ANSWER. Most of the people who went today were simply not in that area. They were ALL OVER the surrounding areas of 15th and Constitution.

[Darranar]

32. Without A.N.S.W.E.R., there wouldn't be a march. n/t

[ProudToBeLiberal]

37. Without A.N.S.W.E.R. we would have speakers like Howard dean and Reid. n/t

[Darranar]

38. I'd rather have McKinney, Jackson, Galloway, and Sheehan. n/t

[T Town Jake]

39. Bingo. The dimwits seem to have forgotten '72 & '84.

n/t

[Donailin]

41. I just don't agree with this. This is the talking point of the "right"

If they -- meaning Dean, Clark, or whoever else is running for office -- wanted to lead, then they should have organized a massive demonstration like the one we had today. We have no leader in this opposition because they are all worried about what it would look like.

Even with ta majority they worry about being controversial in the eyes of the right. What does that tell you? it tells me that they have their own interests at heart.

We the people will act accordingly.

[TankLV]

56. Reid? Yuck!

Without ANSWER, there would be no march/rally.

Period.

And I don't even agree with the idea of having all those "FREE THE MUMMIES! (And yes, to my "honey" poster, I know who Mumia is!) wackos.

But I can't argue that without ANSWER, there would be no march.

[Mr_Spock]

36. The speeches on CSPAN by shrill people to a non-audience

gave a wrong impression. It was the live coverage that was the biggest problem - we never should have been watching those somewhat fringe voices - they should have moved the coverage with the people - who were marching when the Abu Sayaf et al were speaking. The CSPAN coverage SUCKED.

[Donailin]

42. C-span and brian lamb are complete partisan hacks

I've listened to c-span for YEARS and since the run-up to Iraq they have totally promoted the administration/ Lamb is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the neo-cons. Day in and day out the majority of guests on WJ are AEI and HF hacks--all of them praising the administration ad nauseum. Brian Lamb owns that jaunt, he decides what the cameras shoot, he decides what questions get asked on WJ he decides how to structure the phone lines. He dicides what channels will cover what. He decides who gets hung up on and who gets to ramble on like fools.

Fuck. C-Span.

[T Town Jake]

43. "Complete partisan hacks" they may be...

...but are their cameras, which show the plain actions of ANSWER asshats spewing shrill nonsense, in on the conspiracy, too?

Are those cameras "partisan hacks," filtering and distorting some kinda alternate reality?

Musta been my lying eyes...

[Donailin]

44. I was there, were you???

The answer stage was one small area of the whole of downtown. C-span chose to film that stage only, they could have set up cameras in front of the WH to view the half a million people that attended yesterdays event -- exactly like they did at the RNC last year in which there was no stage of speakers. They didn't. I will wager that less than 20 percent of the folks who got off their asses, and actually spent money they didn't have to make their voices heard downtown yesterday never laid eyes on that stage that C-span chose to film. I wouldn't have found the answer platform if not for the fact that we were loking for a hot dog stand.

What you saw on C-span was not even one tenth of what took place yesterday so your eyes were not lying to you, they simply relied on one source -- the corporate media -- to form an opinion. You ought to know better.

[Mari333]

46. and most of the US never saw the march at all.

Ive been to plenty of DC marches, and while they made me feel good to do it, the PR of the largesse of the march was not televised yesterday. The only thing people saw was the ANSWER rally, and if any US citizen watched that, they immediately assume anyone who was at that rally or march was looney. Thats what stinks. Because we all know the march was full of everyday americans against Bush, but you wouldnt know that from the coverage on TV.

[WillyT]

47. Net Plus, Because Without A.N.S.W.E.R., There Would Have Been No March...

which would have been, I believe, a net minus.

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[YouthInAsia]

51. too many speakers on too any topics. They should have

stuck with Cindy (who should have gone LAST and sent everyone to the march lines all hyped up), Jessie Jackson, George Galloway, the Congreswoman and the woman who had the son in Iraq. All the rest had their own agendas and blathered on and on and on and on.......the speeches went on for OVER 2 hours!! People started chanting "No more talkin, lets start marchin!!!" over and over


**edited typo

[TankLV]

52. Net plus from what I've witnessed.

[me b zola]

57. Answer didn't make a difference one way or the other to the rally

We marched to bring home the troops. It was one of the most awsome things that I have ever participated in. Answer didn't effect me, and I dare to say that it didn't effect the others or the rally as a whole either.

[Zuni]

59. ANSWER hurts us by alienating moderates

and instead of concentrating on what the protestors came there for, adding all kinds of grievances

some of their speakers can only be described as hard core communists, something very few non radicals can identify with

[mike_c]

60. since ANSWER was a primary sponsor, their presence was a HUGE plus....

The march might not have even happened without International ANSWER.

[bklyncowgirl]

62. Net plus despite ANSWER.

The great majority of people I met were not hardcore leftists. Most were ordinary people fed up with the war and the Bush administration who came out to voice their opposition. I didn't see a whole lot of people carrying "Israel out of Palestine" signs or calling for a workers revolution.

Since I was there I didn't see the CSPAN coverage and the crowd was so big I wasn't able to get close enough to the Ellipse to hear the speeches that people are complaining about. People seemed more interested in hearing the more mainstream speakers and tended to wander during the fringies.

ANSWER seems to have the logistics of these sort of marches down pat--after all they've been planning the revolution for decades--and in that respect they were useful. It would be nice to see one of the more mainstream groups put together a protest that would focus solely on the war and control the message a little better.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

63. "Did anything credible come from the march?"

Last I checked, people were still dying in Iraq.

[Sgent]

64. Answer doesn't care

Answer could care less about Iraq, and especially US soldiers.

The only positive about the whole thing is it provides fodder for their pro North Korea stance.