Is that your final A.N.S.W.E.R.?

[Minstrel Boy]

Posted to my blog here.

Is that your final A.N.S.W.E.R.?


And he just walked along, alone, with his guilt so well concealed.
And muttered underneath his breath, "Nothing is revealed." - Bob Dylan

Another march on Washington, and more grumbling about A.N.S.W.E.R.'s performance.

Much of the noise comes from embarrassed moderates, who are new to the demonstration game and are simply not that demonstrative. Others suggest A.N.S.W.E.R. engages in bait and switch: draw mass numbers with the cause of Iraq and then use the platform to catapult the propaganda, including wedge issues bound to alienate sizeable contingents of the crowd, and serves to categorize a generalized anti-war movement in the terms of Stalinist caricature.

Now I don't have a problem with radical politics. Those are my politics. And I do believe that mass events are good occasions to wisely shed light upon the interconnections of injustice. What I have a problem with is Ramsey Clark. I don't trust him. And so, I must have a problem with A.N.S.W.E.R. I don't trust it, either.

A.N.S.W.E.R., established by Clark's International Action Center, shows a national, organizational savvy in securing police permits and outclasses and outspends all popular opposition groups in America. (Though there's no transparency regarding the source of its funds.) While the Iraq War is its rallying cause, A.N.S.W.E.R. was founded, presciently, on September 14, 2001, even before the "War on Terror" was officially launched, even rhetorically.

Why don't I trust Clark? If LBJ's former Attorney General was ever going to win my trust, he would have repudiated his handpicked Clark Panel, its medical professionals linked to the intelligence community, and its findings a whitewash of John F Kennedy's incomplete and adulterated autopsy records. He would have apologized to history and America's thwarted justice for stating just days after the murder of Dr King, and even before a suspect was in custody, that "all of our evidence at this time indicates that it was a single person who committed this criminal act." Years later in The Nation, after his radical makeover, Clark said James Earl Ray should not be given a new trial, but rather his case ought to be studied by a government panel. As Lisa Pease asks in The Assassinations, "Did Clark really think the government, which produced the Warren Commission and the HSCA and failed to reveal the truth about either the Martin Luther King case or the Kennedy assassination, should have been given a chance to bamboozle us yet again?"

The American Left of Chomsky and Cockburn and The Nation will never touch these matters of conspiracy. So Clark is largely untouched by his legacy of abetting three of the most egregious miscarriages of modern justice - John, Martin and Bobby - which, uncorrected, have brought America to this point of low comedy and great horror.

If your intent is generational warfare, you had better give some forethought to the stage management of your opposition. As you turn up the pressure, you need to ensure people can vent some steam. It makes them feel better. Like they've done something.

[tocqueville]

1. Besides ANSWER is a byproduct of the Workers World Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSWER

look at ANSWERs steering committee

As of July 2005, according to their official website, ANSWER's Steering Committee consisted of:

IFCO/Pastors for Peace
Free Palestine Alliance - U.S.
Haiti Support Network
Partnership for Civil Justice - LDEF
Nicaragua Network
Alliance for Just and Lasting Peace in the Philippines
Korea Truth Commission
Muslim Student Association - National
Kensington Welfare Rights Union
Mexico Solidarity Network
Party for Socialism and Liberation
Middle East Children's Alliance
Other prominent organizational endorsers include the Freedom Socialist Party, Green Party USA, and Vietnam Veterans Against The War Anti-Imperialist. Prominent individual endorsers include comedian Dick Gregory, Robert Meeropol of the Rosenberg Fund for Children, author Michael Parenti, and historian Howard Zinn.

[pox americana]

2. interesting...

Not sure I agree with your conclusion but thanx for the info.

p.s. It's amazing what people will say to keep their jobs (see "Leslie Robertson"). But having heard Clark speak, I think he's for real.

[applegrove]

3. I'm a moderate. And I don't appreciate Stalinist structure. I also

don't thing King, JFK or RFK were murdered by anyone but losers.

Perhaps it is time to rethink how we organize our demonstrations. For different reasons than you. Obviously you have your own agenda.

That makes you no different than the A.N.S.W.E.R. you describe.


An anti-war demonstration should only be about that. A march for peace & a march against Table d'Hote Wars for the elites. I think that message did get through. The message was pretty clear.

[Walt Starr]

4. If A.N.S.W.E.R. is running the show, I'll be elsewhere. n/t

[ima_sinnic]

6. yeah, take your ball and go home

that'll show those commies.

[Walt Starr]

7. Wow, put words into my mouth

I won't take my ball and go home because I won't show up in the first place.

I will NOT associate myself with communists. Nor will anybody in the mainstream, and if you don't get the mainstream, you lose the whole damned PR war.

[Peace Patriot]

82. I don't know, Walt, has anyone asked the "mainstream" recently what

they think of communism? With gas pushing $5/gal, they might just go for a little "nationalization" of essential industries, and with CEOs earning 100 times more than workers, they might just cotton to that old communist ideal: "From each according to his ability to each according to his need."

And was there ever a time when "workers of the world, unite!" had a more inspiring or relevant ring?

Nobody wants tyranny--of the communist kind that developed in Russia and China, or of the global corporate predator kind that has developed here. But folks might like a middle way, such as the Venezuelans are negotiating, or such as various hybrid western governments have created in which people are treated decently and get something in return for their work and their taxes, instead of dead children killed in unjust war or elderly parents who can't afford medical care or food or heat for the winter.

How about we throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor', and vote on it?

[tlsmith1963]

104. A Middle Way is Fine

I don't mind some socialism. The neocon version of capitalism isn't working. But I cannot stand ANSWER. I don't think they represent a "middle" way at all. They are as radical & flipped out as the neocons & fundamentalist Christians. I have had enough of the Right-wing fringe. I don't want to replace it with more of the same, just with a Left-wing label. No more psychos! Please!

Tammy

[donheld]

135. Communism gets such a bad rap

Capitalism has shown itself to be so admirable the last few years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. neither will I

ANSWER is involved I stay home

[leveymg]

5. Red-baiting - it split the Left in the 50s. Have we learned nothing?

You get the permits next time. Only, that won't happen.

[KittyWampus]

24. Red-baiting? ANSWER Is NOT Democratic or interested in Democracy

they want an elitist, one party system pretty much like the Neo-Cons.

Funny a lot of the Neo-Cons are former Trotskyists.

[leveymg]

55. It's still Red-baiting.

As I said, we should thank ANSWER for doing the heavy lifting on this one. It's the first big demo in DC since the start of the Iraq War.

This internicide squabbling's gotta stop. It split the Left several times before. Nada mas.

[jonnyblitz]

57. eh. nobody pays attention to them anyways. let them sputter

whine and scream anti-semitism and bitch about commies. record numbers of people STILL show up IN SPITE of the wingnuts and "DEMS" who rail about the EEEVILLL A.N.S.W.ER.

[SlowDownFast]

64. The left is already split:

There would be no internal squabbling if ANSWER'S list of speakers had stayed ON MESSAGE. By the ANSWER's very nature of it's fractured 'coalition', each having their own agenda's (besides Iraq), the MESSAGE of OUT OF IRAQ/IMPEACH BUSH is diluted and lost.

[tavalon]

121. Yeah

The DU group was standing around waiting for the march to start and listening to interminable diatribes on non-topical topics and it was about 45 minutes after the march was to start and they were still droning on. I went up to the stage to ask if they were planning to announce that it was time to march. They said yes, after.........

About 15 minutes later, we, along with most of the crowd went and lined up for the march on our own with A.N.S.W.E.R. continuing to drone on. It was kind of amusing to watch their audience abandon them.

They are strong in the arena of being able to get permits and such but they suck at keeping on message. They needed to have less than five speakers and they needed to whip up the crowd energy and send us out there with a bang. Instead, we left them in the dust, droning on about Palistine and Mumia.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

100. duh. you agree that some on the right help push it along, no?

some splits are natural, others are forced. I suspect that this is being forced by Rovian elements. you are right that we have to keep together. Even if we have minor differences on some issues or goals, the MAJOR issues are unassailable. Change is required. These neoconmen are dangerous to the world's health.

[tlsmith1963]

106. I Think ANSWER is Probably Coming From Rove

Neocons are Trotskyists, & so is ANSWER. I wouldn't be surprised if Rove is doing some secret funding. After all, why do they (ANSWER) always seem to be running the show? Where is the money coming from? And wouldn't it help the neocons to scare the Republicans if they help out a group that represents everything they hate about liberals? Keep the conservatives paranoid about liberals, & keep them voting Republican.

Btw, I am not pro-DLC, so don't even try it. I want to fight Bush. They don't.

Tammy

[earth mom]

129. It TOTALLY smells like Rove! You hit the nail on the head!

We MUST question the dialog, because it's not the dialog most of us here on DU wanted or were expecting. ANSWER was all over the map and droned on and on about topics the average Joe doesn't give a damn about. People in this country care about THIS COUNTRY and the War THEIR KIDS or LOVED ONES are fighting and dying for. The minute Palestine is mentioned, people TUNE OUT. LIKE IN DROVES! Rove was probably delighted beyond measure to watch his little plan in action. It all smells to high heaven and that's how you know for sure that it was a total "Rovian Production". :puke:

Why and how did ANSWER get the permits??? That is THE QUESTION.

[xchrom]

8. answer pretty throws the party -- provides volunteers, raises donations,

etc -- and then some sit back and critisize answer.

there's plenty of room to organize somebody's own version of an activist protest organizing entity.
just go out and do it.

the turn out for this event was huge -- and there is no mistaking the ''bring the troops home now'' message.

[Cassandra]

37. Actually, ANSWER gets the permits but...

United for Peace and Justice gets the bodies. Notice that last summer in NYC, when UFPJ threw a march, everybody came and there were no speeches and no real rally, so the march went well and nobody was bothered with ANSWER.
Steve Gilliard had a good piece, today:
"You know, it's time for the campus radicals to go home and take ANSWER with them.
I watched an hour or so of the rally and I wanted to smash my screen.

Why can't they have adults who can speak in words, not slogans.

Here's a hint, Palestine is really unpopular in the US, even among liberals. You do not gain support for the Palestinians by having some campus clown talk about the injustices of the Palestinian people. You know, why not have a real Palestinian from Palestine who doesn't speak in slogans. You know, but a human face on it. And leave the support of terrorists like FARC at home, after all, you can't call Israelis terrorists when you're praising drug dealing terrorists.

This is serious shit and I had to listen to someone say he was a communist. Now what in the fuck does that have to do with Iraq? Too many people on the left glom on to any protest and use it as their hobby horse. You know, the only people I wanted to express solidarity with were the families of the soldiers, the soldiers and the people of Iraq suffering from US occupation. It may be cute to have diversity, but it takes away from the seriousness. You have a rally where only soldiers and their families speak, with a few pols, and even Bush couldn't ignore that.
<snip>
As long as you prattle on about anti-imperialism and other college campus radical causes, you don't get taken seriously. ANSWER in their own way is as bad as the Chickenhawks. Both are amazingly selfish. The chickenhawks refuse to serve, the ANSWER crowd uses people like Cindy Sheehan to promote their own agenda. Mumia's ass is in jail, and you couldn't more than 10 minutes on black radio about him. And that's a cause?"
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/

[SlowDownFast]

65. What Cassandra said.

Personally, I don't have a problem with much of what ANSWER's "coalitions" espouse -

it's the diluting of the TASK AT HAND: OUT OF IRAQ/IMPEACH BUSH

America is ready for this task.

America is not ready for COMMUNIST IDEALOGIES or the the other myriad topics that got screamed about yesterday.

[bos1]

80. Where can I find a rundown of the speakers and messages?

I was wondering if ANSWER's involvement would lead to the same thing that happened to the other gigantic -- and ineffective -- demonstrations in the last few years, namely people showing up to oppose the war and then having to sit through Free Mumia speeches.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paineinthearse]

9. embarrassed moderates = DINO's

It's time to shit or get off the pot!

[Walt Starr]

10. I have no common cause with Communism

Sorry, but that's how it is.

[applegrove]

11. Yep. Communism failed to deliver human rights in the countries they

got a hold of. All Utopians are dangerous. No "one idea" should ever be imposed on human beings anywhere.

Count me way out.

[Darranar]

68. Communism never got a hold of any country.

The class system has never yet been overturned broadly and for a significant period of time. As such, Communism remains a theory, never put into practice.

[merwin]

84. I agree with you. Just like Democracy has never been implemented.

No country, especially the USA, has a democratic government. Democracy is form of government in which all of the people have the ability to make all of the decisions together. Not a representative government where people make decisions FOR you.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Kudos to you, Walt!

Can't we all see that making sure we don't get any nasty communist germs is waaaaaay more important than getting out there and showing our opposition to Bush and the war in Iraq???


Violet...

[Walt Starr]

13. Make common cause with communism and your message is lost

That's reality in this country.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. The message today wasn't lost...

...and to be honest I'd rather march with communists who have the balls to get out there and protest the war than sit at home with a bunch of wimps who do nothing but whine about commies :)


Violet...

[Walt Starr]

17. Joe Barcalounger saw Free Mumia signs and gave up on it

That's reality.

Without Joe, march all you want byut you aren't changing a damned thing.

[G_j]

20. who? n/t

[Walt Starr]

27. If you need to ask, you'll never know. n/t

[applegrove]

32. I'll never know because I don't fill my head with crap that has been

tried and failed miserably & only turned itself into Totalitarianism.

[Walt Starr]

33. You don't need to convince me

you need to convince Joe Barcalounger, because Joe decides who wins elections.

[crispini]

35. I honestly don't think Joe Barcalounger SAW it, Walt.

C-SPAN covered most of the speeches, and Joe B. doesn't watch C-SPAN. It got a passing mention in some of the other news sources -- was that passing mention enough to show the "Free Mumia" stuff? Doubt it.

[RagingInMiami]

136. Does Joe own Diebold?

[donheld]

137. Joe Barcalounger had his vote stolen

Now that's the kind of Democracy we have.

[derby378]

38. Well said

It was pure luck that A.N.S.W.E.R. didn't dilute Cindy Sheehan's message by following her appearance on stage with someone from the PSL or the Socialist Party of Puerto Rico.

I'd recommend George Lakoff's framing techniques to A.N.S.W.E.R., but I'm afraid the strategy would be lost on over half of its members.

[Toasted_Halo]

70. LOL!

Joe has no idea who Mumia is, or what channel cspan is!

[txaslftist]

131. Oh hell. I don't know who the fuck Mumia is either.

Seriously, who the fuck is he?

[applegrove]

Commies are Utopians same as Neocons. All of them are dangerous

narcissits. You cannot look at the world and say that communism has made anybody better off. A mixed market does that. Only a mixed market.

[applegrove]

31. Self Delete. Double.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

75. Balls have nothing to do with it.

It doesn't matter a damn who has the most balls.

What matters is what strategy achieves its goal most effectively.

Anything that associates opposition to Iraq with communism is immensely counterproductive.

[Violet_Crumble]

85. Sure they do...

And the side that'd rather whine away than get out there and do something have NO balls, imo...

Uh, the only place I'm seeing opposition to the war associated with communism is here at DU...


Violet...

[hiley]

78. agreed

A.N.S.W.E.R. is good enough for

Ron Kovic on September 24th

This is to express my enthusiastic support for the Sept. 24 demonstrations to End the War in Iraq and the ANSWER Coalition. This demonstration represents an important turning point in the struggle against this war. For the first time, many citizens who have not until now joined in the struggle to stop the war are joining people of all races and classes, veterans, military families, clergy and everyday Americans to speak out and join this dynamic and expanding movement. The recent hurricane disaster in New Orleans underscores the urgent need for all of us to join together to strongly oppose the direction this government is now going in, and to demand funds and resources for our fellow citizens here at home. On September 24, as a Vietnam veteran who knows all too well the horrors of war, I plan to join with hundreds of thousands in Washington, DC, San Francisco, Los Angeles and around the world to demand an end to the war in Iraq, and that the Bush administration immediately bring our troops home to their families and communities. I hope everyone will join us in this important movement for peace.

Ron Kovic, Vietnam war veteran, and author,
"Born on the Fourth of July"

http://www.answercoalition.org/
quess his opinion matters not, though.

[KittyWampus]

28. The Only Difference Between Communists Ala ANWER & Fascists Ala

Neo-Cons is one is to the extreme far Right and one is to the extreme far Left.

And in case you haven't noticed, when two groups are so far to the extremes... they end up meeting.

ANSWER's agenda, if implemented, would destroy Democracy just as surely as the Neo-Cons agenda has.

In fact, ANSWER's agenda is largely the same as regards one party rule and a ruling elite.

[Violet_Crumble]

88. Are you one of those 'moderates'?

Mainly asking because that straight-line political spectrum was pretty damn wonky, plus I wasn't aware that communism was actually a danger in the US. It's certainly not in any other Western country...

You know what I think is way more dangerous than any communists or even socialists? So-called moderates, who are to me indistinguishable from conservatives as they rush around pulling their own views more and more to the right to appease right-wingers...

Violet...

[tlsmith1963]

108. Not Appeasing Anyone

I hate neocons just as much as I hate ANSWER. It's called "cutting through all the crap & thinking for myself". I am not an appeaser.

Tammy

[Violet_Crumble]

112. Are You cryingshame?

That Was Strange, Because I Asked cryingshame The Question, And You Replied To It As Though You Were cryingshame. If yr not cryingshame, then I don't give a toss about yr reply, because I've got no idea who you are and wasn't having this discussion with you...

Violet...

[tavalon]

122. Violet

Every time you post here at DU, you are potentially having a conversation with 78,000 people. If you wanted to just talk to cryingshame, I suggest PMing cryingshame. Kindly don't whine if someone else chooses to join in.

In other words, get over your bad self, please. :eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

125. Uh, tavalon...

I asked one poster a specific question about THEIR political stance. I was just a bit surprised when someone else responded, not because they responded, but because they were replying as though they were the person I'd been asking. How is that whining? Or do you just pop up in random threads making stupid comments uh, whining about whining where there's none in the first place...

In other words, thanks for the post full of crankyisms. Are you in a bad mood or something? :)

Violet...

[applegrove]

30. The Communist message should not weigh any higher than it places

in the Vote. Nader got 1% last time. And most of those were not communists.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

29. Don't believe it? Go to their web site.

http://www.internationalanswer.org/

Steering Committee:
IFCO/Pastors for Peace
Free Palestine Alliance - U.S.
Haiti Support Network
Partnership for Civil Justice - LDEF
Nicaragua Network
Alliance for Just and Lasting Peace in the Phillippines
Korea Truth Commission
Muslim Student Association - National
Kensington Welfare Rights Union
Mexico Solidarity Network
Party for Socialism and Liberation
Middle East Children's Alliance

<snip>

Now just exactly who is the Party for Socialism and Liberation?

They are COMMUNISTS.

http://socialismandliberation.org/PSLsite/whoWeAre.html

[rman]

42. "Socialism = Communism" is a RW meme.

[Walt Starr]

44. OH BULL SHIT!!!

you did not even READ their site!

"We need a revolutionary party

The PSL has been created to be a vehicle for the multinational working class in the struggle for socialism.

Revolutionary Marxism requires a revolutionary party to flourish and develop. Marxism is not an abstract doctrine but rather a guide to action. It must be constantly tested by action and in debate.

Our party seeks to bring together leaders and organizers from the many struggles taking place across the country. The most crucial requirement for membership is the dedication to undertake this most important and most necessary of all tasks — building a new revolutionary workers party in the heart of world imperialism.

The long and corrosive history of slavery and racism in the United States places special demands on the party of the working class. In all our preparation, we strive to build working class unity by putting the struggle against racism as a central priority in the day-to-day work of the Party and the movement, and by affirming in practice Lenin's principles of the rights of nations to self-determination and revolutionary, working-class internationalism. Only a multinational party can create the unity necessary to defeat the most powerful capitalist class the world has ever seen."

Next time, educate yourself before you start spewing BULLSHIT.

[rman]

49. the word "communism" isn't even in there

[Walt Starr]

51. You owe me an apology

Your bullshit claims are just that, bullshit. You owe me an apology because you are too lazy to do your homework.

Read post number 50. They are Communists. There is no doubt about it.

[Tinoire]

117. Communists???

:scared: :scared: Thank God Bush is in charge! He and the Vichy Collaborators will save us from the commies!!!

Mommy I'm scared... Commies everywhere. Joe Barcalounger read it in the sports section.

[Violet_Crumble]

126. Yr the one who owes an apology...

Firstly for making such nasty comments, and secondly because Socialism and Communism are not the same things. Yr claims that they are is the only bullshit I'm seeing in this subthread, Walt...

http://www.pww.org/past-weeks-1999/Socialism%20and%20communism.htm

[RagingInMiami]

138. So what if they are commies. Are we still stuck in the 1950s?

There were hundreds of different groups protesting on Saturday. Those who did not want to be associated with the commies simply walked with other groups.

[the_spectator]

60. Plus, did you see THIS on their site?

Since 1945, every generation has been called on to send its sons and daughters to invade foreign lands: Korea, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan. These do not include U.S.-led proxy wars against Cuba, Nicaragua, Congo, Angola, Mozambique, Colombia, the Philippines, Venezuela and others. Nor does it include the two interimperialist world wars of the first half of the 20th Century. "Endless war" did not begin with the Bush regime!

So this "Party of Socialism and Liberation" believes that WORLD WAR II was an "interimperialist" war, meaning that Hitler's Germany, Churchill's Britain and FDR's America were all just morally-equivalent "imperialists" fighting amongst themselves for imperialist spoils!

Whoa! Ironically, this "line" is a perfect echo of Stalin's Comintern line from 1939 (once the USSR and Nazi Germany signed the Non-Agression Pact) until 1941 (when Hitler invaded the USSR.)

-------
Also, by the way, it seems that the Worker's World Party (which split off from the Trotskyist Socialist Worker's Party in 1956 - because the WWP peple SUPPORTED the Soviet tanks crushing the Hungarian revolt of that year) has ALSO just recently split -- the "Party of Socialism and Liberation" is a faction that split off, taking with them the local party organization in San Fransisco, Los Angeles ... and Washington DC, amongst other places. So at this point, it seems that the A.N.S.W.E.R. rally yesterday was run by this PSL, not by the WWP. (I just find all this kind of trivia fascinating. Found myself on www.marxists.org a bunch last night. Still trying to figure out exactly where "Pabloism" was coming from!)

[Imajika]

56. ANSWER is nothing but bad news...

I notice also the Korea Truth Commission here.

A little reading makes it pretty clear they blame America, not the North Korean invasion of the South (encouraged by Stalin), for long standing division of the Korean peninsula.

"The Korea Truth Commission, and International Action Center to investigate U.S. War Crimes, have jointly called for this important war crimes tribunal in order to expose the true nature of the U.S. war against Korea. However this call for action is not for the sake of accusation regarding the past, but for a TRUE RECONCILIATION which will be possible only after the truth is fully told."

This reads like typical North Korean propaganda.

I couldn't stomach the speakers for very long at this rally, but in the past ANSWER usually drags out apologist for Kim Jong Il and his loathesome regime. Apparently there is always time at the rally to discuss the wonderful workers paradise that is North Korea.

Dig a little bit, and I'd bet you find most of these organizations support marxist ideology as a solution to whatever problem they claim they are trying to address.

[merwin]

87. Socialist is far from communist

That group's message:
We are fighting for socialism, a system where the wealth of society belongs to those who produce it, the working class, and is used in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all. In place of greed, domination and exploitation, we stand for solidarity, friendship and cooperation between all peoples.

Communism is defined by Wikipedia as:
Communism is a movement based on the principle of communal ownership of property and means of production. It has been a major force in world politics since the early 20th century.

Very different.

[rman]

41. But you call anything left of center "communism"

[Walt Starr]

43. BULLSHIT!

You don't know me. You have no clue about me and you have just made an unfounded statement.

Back it up. Post a quote from me backing up your bullshit statement about what I do.

I call COMMUNISTS, COMMUNISTS. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself. ANSWER was founded by COMMUNISTS. They ADMIT they're Communists.

[rman]

48. You call socialists, communists

Also you seem to omit the fact that ANSWER is an umbrella organization; there's no one single political view within ANSWER. Except that all the with ANSWER organizations are Leftist.

For the life of me i can't recall you ever supporting anything that's left of center. Also i can't recall you ever making a distinction between socialism and communism.
If i am mistaken then perhaps you can provide some examples?

[Walt Starr]

50. You are under the burden of proof here, not me.

You made the claim, not me. You are under the burden of proof or you owe me an apology.

I PROVED they were communists and provided the link. Want some more where they laud more than Lenin? They just LOVE Mao, Ho Chi Minh, etc. etc. etc. They laud Communist leaders and try to blow smoke on the issue with the "socialist" crap.

In fact, look at this:

The Party for Socialism and Liberation is a Marxist-Leninist political party in the United States that was formed in 2004 as the result of a split within the ranks of the Workers World Party. The San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C. branches of WWP left almost in their entirety to form the PSL, which appears to have experienced significant growth since.

The main publication of the Party for Socialism and Liberation, which reflects their political perspective, is their magazine, Socialism and Liberation. It is published monthly and can be obtained from a variety of bookstores throughout the United States, as well as through PSL offices.

The party is a fierce supporter of the government of Cuba, and while a critic of the current Chinese government, the party views the Chinese Revolution and Cultural Revolution favorably.

The PSL is also a member of the steering committee of the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition.

The National Offices of the Party for Socialism and Liberation are based in San Francisco, California and Washington, District of Columbia. The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) also maintains branches and centers in the following major cities: Baltimore, MD; Chicago, IL; Los Angeles, CA; New Paltz, NY; New York City, NY; San Jose, CA; Seattle, WA; West Chester, PA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Socialism_and_Liberation

Now go look at the party they split from:

Workers World Party (WWP) is a communist party in the United States founded in 1959 by Sam Marcy. The WWP formed as a split from the Socialist Workers Party in 1958 over a series of long-standing differences (among them, the support of Sam Marcy for Henry Wallace's Progressive Party in 1948, the positive view they held of the Chinese Revolution led by Mao Zedong, and their support for the Soviet intervention in Hungary in 1956).

At its website, the WWP describes itself as a party that has, since its founding, "supported the struggles of all oppressed peoples. It has recognized the right of nations to self-determination, including the nationally oppressed peoples inside the United States. It supports affirmative action as absolutely necessary in the fight for equality. It opposes all forms of racism and religious bigotry."

Initially the WWP was confined to the Buffalo area, where it had constituted the Buffalo and two other smaller branches of the SWP, but expanded in the 1960s. It had a well known youth movement called Youth Against War and Fascism which attracted much support with its campaigning against the Vietnam War.

Although in origin a Trotskyist group, the WWP describes itself as Marxist-Leninist. WWP continues to make available the writings of many Communists including Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao. This combination of influences is unusual among left-wing parties. Many Trotskyist organizations seek out international affiliations, but WWP has organized solely in the United States.

The WWP agrees with Trotsky's description of pre-1991 Russia as being a "degenerated workers' state" and extend that description to countries such as Cuba, North Korea and China. Far more often, members of the party use the term socialist to describe such states, and they often support these states more energetically than do the orthodox Communist parties. Similarly, they support countries which they see as victims of American imperialism such as Iraq or Libya, but do not describe these state as being socialist. For an article on such states, see this. For an article on the party's opinion on the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, see this. The WWP has defended political leaders such as Slobodan Miloševiæ and Saddam Hussein.

True to its fundamental principles, WW has always remained primarily action-oriented. Its pamphlets and books are scarcely theoretical, though they are steeped in historical analysis and idiom as a platform for agitation. The party is the most skillful practitioner of united front strategy — not just tactics — on the U.S. left, preferring to win influence and leadership through militancy rather than through ideological victories.

In the presidential elections of 1996 and 2000, their candidate was activist Monica Moorehead; in 2004 John Parker was chosen. Workers World opposed both Gulf Wars, and was influential in the anti-war group ANSWER for a time. It has been an important ally of third world solidarity movements in the United States. They have been noted as sponsoring or directing numerous popular front groups including All People's Congress, and the International Action Center, among many others.

In 2004 a substantial number of members split from the party to form a new group, the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

WWP is closely oriented with a youth organization, Fight Imperialism Stand Together, which formed in 2004. FIST, however, does not define itself as the WWP youth group and has its own independent political orientation.

No longer functioning within the ANSWER coalition (as the Party for Socialism and Liberation still does), WWP has joined efforts to build the OUT NOW coalition.

The WWP claims donations and volunteerism as the source of their funding and operational resources. The WWP posts a direct link to its various headquarters in the United States. As WWP is not a registered PAC or non-profit (501(c), etc.), ultimate sources of their funds remain substantially obscured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party

You owe me an APOLOGY! But no, throwing bullshit accusations is easier than doing your homework.

[rman]

59. I can't prove a negative.

My claim is that there are no posts by you in support of leftist causes, not that you ever stated that you don't support leftist causes. Ie Chavez is a self-proclaimed socialist, therefor (by your logic) a communist, therefor should not be supported. For all i know you never posted in a Chavez thread, which would support my point.

Wrt the political inclination of organizations behind ANSWER (thanks for the information you provided there), I'm not so sure i owe you an apology. Why didn't you include references to communism in the first place?

[Walt Starr]

72. You can't state what you actually stated either, apparently...

But you call anything left of center "communism"

Again, PROVE IT!

[rockymountaindem]

54. I don't always agree with you, Walt

but here you're right on. I don't want anything to do with Communists either. Hats off to you and applegrove in this thread.

[merwin]

89. Please define what you consider a Socialist and Communist.

That will help to clear things up.

You say you call communists, communists. Well what do you define as communist? The hippies in the 1960's living in communes were communists. The USSR was a communist nation. Those are two entirely different systems.

[Walt Starr]

90. Any group that lauds Cuba and China as models for how society

should be run is a Communist organization.

[merwin]

94. That doesn't answer my question.

What is your definition of a communist and a socialist?

Not who do you think is a communist. What do you think a communist is?

If you were taking a test at school and it asks for the definition of a communist, you wouldn't say "Cuba" (well, maybe you would.. i can't speak for you)

[Walt Starr]

96. A Communist is any member of a Marxist-Lenninist party

The Socialism and Liberation Organization describes itself as a revolutionary organization:

"The Party for Socialism and Liberation is a newly formed working class party of leaders and activists from many different struggles, founded to promote the movement for revolutionary change."

The first statement in their mission statement makes them comunist by definition.

[dutchdemocrat]

133. Walt

You've drank waaaaaaaay too much koolaid.

Have you ever been to Cuba?

No, of course not. You allegedly live in a 'free' country yet you are not even legally allowed to go there.

I suppose you think Chavez and Lula are 'Commies' too.

Your life seems to be very black and white Walt... you refuse to see the tones in between.

I can't believe I am reading vitriolic anti-communist rhetoric on DU. To lump together Cuba and China is insane.

The former Prime Minister of Canada, Trudeau, had no problem with Castro. Are Canadians kinda' like Commies by proxy?

[MADem]

130. I think we get it, you do not like communists

Fine, everyone has a right to their opinion. I don't think ANSWER was the best bunch to throw that party, but even with lousy hosts, a couple of hundred K folk showed up to march against the war. They did not allow someone cranking against Arroyo or the Free Mumia crowd to distract them from their agenda.

Imagine what the turnout might have been had their been more focused organizers?? Start looking around for someone who is on that track for another similar event, and volunteer to help them...

[KittyWampus]

26. I'm a freaking Democratic Socialist & ANSWER Has An Agenda That's

anathema to anyone who supports Democracy.

[tocqueville]

52. I went to visit ANSWER site and did some research on WIKI

since I didn't know who they were...

I was horrified, they are no peace activists, they are far left extremists, probably trotskyites.

They correspond to the people of ATTAC, LCR etc.. in France. These guys are here more marginalised by the regular SOCIALIST party in France, just to tell you how far left they are.

the people of DU need to wake up and find or create truly DEMOCRATIC (in the basic sense of the term) organisations to achieve their goals.

if the ANSWER people would ever take over DU, I'd be out of here in 3 red seconds...

[Ladyhawk]

107. I looked at Walt's links and he's right. They're communists.

WTF are we doing in bed with communists?????

[Jose Diablo]

14. Won't get fooled again

The Who

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[bleedingheart]

16. I want to point out that my very lilberal mother was confused by ANSWER

she watched the rally from her home (she is 73 with bad knees so protesting is not an option fo her)...

she told me that she got confused because the coverage of the rally included so many topics which made her question...is this really a rally against the war???

so while I have no opinion about ANSWER I will say that if you dilute the message with too many others issues...you confuse people...like my mom.

[SlowDownFast]

66. Same with my father.

He watched it on CSPAN with me (he's a moderate democrat who is against the war and hates *) and when all that other ANSWER bullshit was going on and on and on about everything EXCEPT the Iraq War, he was CONFUSED and said, "What's all this other stuff? I thought this was protesting the war?"

My blood-pressure was climbing while watching ANSWER pull this shit again...

[bos1]

83. This is as I feared. nt

[merwin]

91. ANSWER never claimed this was just an anti-war protest

Check out the fliers:
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24flyers

[tavalon]

123. and irritate people at the rally

I know there were a number of us quite irritated by their endless droning on about every topic under the sun. Whether they are communist, socialist, democratic or whatever, one thing they aren't is good at stage production.

The KISS principle was in short supply on THAT stage!

[Stephanie]

18. MoveOn needs to team with UFPJ and take over the march organizing

We need clear, focussed demands and a united front. Bush Out Now! Out of Iraq Now!

[G_j]

19. has MoveOn changed it's tune?

at one point "Out of Iraq Now" was clearly not their position.

[Stephanie]

21. oh

then I don't know who can do it - but some group has to step forward and take over

[G_j]

34. I agree, I had hope in UFP&J because

so many outstanding people and groups have endorsed them. Cindy for example, linked to them when calling for folks to go to DC. But for some reason they don't seem to be as effective in pulling off large rallies as ANSWER.
I know that there has been a long standing conflict between the two groups, though they were both involved in this demonstration.

I would have been thrilled if "Bring Them Home Now" "Gold Star Families" and "Veterans For Peace" had managed to organize this themselves.

I think we really need to examine how ANSWER is able to organize as effectively as it does.

[crispini]

36. ANSWER's method,

at least according to Wikipedia, is: get the permits, get the stage purchased FIRST, and thus, control the message.

[Cassandra]

40. This is from a response to Steve Gilliard's blog

"What the hell is so hard about getting goddamn permits that it requires kowtowing to these ANSWER kitchen-sink protest nutters?!?

Am I being dense here? Are the forms required really complicated or something? I really don't get it.

If they seem to "magically" get permits where orgs. find difficulties then might that make you suspicious about the true nature of this mushpot of what everyone hates about the left (including a liberal like me). Especially considering they started life on 9/14/01 it would certainly not be any stretch that this is a black-op Karl Rove special. Wouldn't require more than a couple insiders and a few lucky breaks (like permits!).
Gryn | 09.25.05"

Did they get started on 9/14/01?

[Walt Starr]

45. Yes, they got started on 9/14/01

http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_about_us

[Cassandra]

47. Yeah, I just saw that on their site but...

where does the money come from and why are they the first in line to get permits instead of the organizations who actually get the bodies there? You could see by the end of the rally how few people were actually there to hear the end speakers.

[mcscajun]

103. We don't know where they get their funds from, and they're Not Telling.

All we know is they always manage to get to the front of the line and snap up permits for every conceivable protest site.

[Old and In the Way]

53. Now that is really interesting.

9/14/01? Yes, I'd say that raises a real red flag (no pun intended). It would make sense that they'd want to provide the outlet to vent the anger while keeping the framing to discredit.

It might be very interesting to see who incoporated ANSWER and who are the key players in this organization.

I like the idea of some other progressive organization to take over these permits...maybe PDA.

Your post deserves its own thread, I'd think....

[Raksha]

79. Yeah, that's what's got my red flags flying too...

as I just indicated in another post.

Re >>If they seem to "magically" get permits where orgs. find difficulties then might that make you suspicious about the true nature of this mushpot of what everyone hates about the left (including a liberal like me).<<

Who "magically" unkinks all the red tape for them? Who opens the doors for them? Whoever they are, do they do the same for other anti-war groups? And if not, WHY NOT???

[tavalon]

124. A.N.S.W.E.R.

is a Karl Rove plot?! LOL. Karl Rove isn't that stupid. Even though they held the stage at the rally, the half a million people who marched held the day.

[Raksha]

77. I've been reading this thread with great interest to educate myself.

Re >>But for some reason they don't seem to be as effective in pulling off large rallies as ANSWER.<<

The big question that keeps coming up over and over again in my mind is this: If ANSWER is an unbrella group for Trotskyite far-left organizations, WHY do they have no trouble getting police permits? Everyone keeps talking about how effective they are in pulling off large rallies. They couldn't do that without cooperation from local governments--WHY AND HOW do they manage to get such cooperation, when they are obviously loony-left radicals?

How do they manage to cut ahead of a more mainstream anti-war group like United for Peace and Justice? Assuming that they do...I really don't know one way or the other. Has UPJ ever tried to organize a demonstration without them? If so, did they run into any problems getting the necessary permits?

I don't know the answers to these questions--that's why I'm asking them! As I said, I'm reading these threads to educate myself. So far from what I've read, it certainly sounds like there is some invisible hand smoothing their path to getting their message front and center--and that sends up red flags all over the place.

There is also the question of their funding, but that is a separate issue and apparently not very easy to figure out.

[Cassandra]

111. UFPJ got the permits in NYC last summer for the big march...

and it was a great success. ANSWER was there but no one could speak until marchers straggled back to Union Square, and there weren't a lot of listeners by then. I was in the march and was very impressed with UFPJ's ability to organize a group that large. They were very organized, everyone felt welcome; if you didn't want to march next to one person's banner, you could move to another. People moved through the crowd selling buttons, the socialists came though handing out newspapers. No message upstaged the march's anti-war message, although no one doubted how much the marchers despised the Republican convention or Fox news.
I don't know how ANSWER gets the bulk of the permits but they are clearly not the most capable group.

[mcscajun]

102. That's *exactly* who and how the next events need to be run.

Those are the organizations who should be getting our support...our bodies, our time, our money.

Unless someone BEATS A.N.S.W.E.R. to the punch and gets the permits BEFORE they do, nothing will ever change. The dilution of message will go on, and anti-war protesters will continue to be marginalized.

[tlsmith1963]

109. I Haven't Heard Anything Bad About UFPJ

In fact, didn't ANSWER & UFPJ have a falling-out? Yes, let UFPJ run things, not ANSWER.

Tammy

[Puregonzo1188]

22. My issue with ANSWER is not working with Commies

for a common cause, I would have no problem with ANSWER being there. My problem is they bring in all these other topics and causes besides the War In Iraq and they dilute the message.

[hippywife]

46. I'm a little torn.

I'm not a moderate at all and have no problem seeing all social issues addressed. I know there are many injustices in the world and sometimes they are linked. They are all linked at some point by the imperialism imposed on the rest of the world by country looking out soley for it's own interests. But I think it isn't fair of ANSWER to use these rallies that are supposed to be about calling for an end to the war in Iraq. I think it is because they know so many are rallying to this cause that they have a captive audience.

In another way, I can't blame them. It is hard to get people to get off their butts and mobilize to do something about many of the issues that need to be addressed out there, so when they have a huge audience, they use it to their advantage to inform people about them.

I haven't been able to attend and I'm not really sure what the solution is that would satisfy everyone. Maybe at one of these, there should be an attempt to be more organized with mutliple stages/tents/tables in an area so everyone has a chance to get their message out there and the people attending can choose what they want to devote their energies towards and learn more about??? :shrug:

[Mairead]

74. Coalition politics

You can bring 30K into the street against the war, or 30K against the war plus 20K against the IDF occupation plus 10K to free Mumia plus 20K to free Pelletier plus 30K to end global warming plus...etc.

I know which I'd choose: the media only looks at the numbers.

[bos1]

86. my issues with working with Stalinists: gulags, forced starvation,

police states, military invasions, assassinations, wholesale corruption, environmental devastation, destruction of personal freedom. To name a few.

[moddemny]

115. "My issues with working with Stalinists: gulags, forced starvation...

police states, military invasions, assassinations, wholesale corruption, environmental devastation, destruction of personal freedom. To name a few."

Exactly and well put. You have outlined the problem for the people here who have trouble seeing why others are disgusted with groups that support hardcore Communism. A lot of people here seem very surprised by all the opposition to A.N.S.W.E.R. and I am surprised at the lack of recent historical knowledge on their part of some of the atrocities committed by Stalinist type regimes. After all, many DUer's are well informed people and are quick to point out an injustice. I wonder why they (the pro-ANSWER apologists) forget the people shot trying to climb over the Berlin wall, the millions falsely imprisoned for speaking out, the way families were torn apart, the police state where you had to wonder which one of your close friends was an informant, the list goes on. This was recent history, right? Most people should remember it. There are plenty of people here before the early 90's aren't there?

[bos1]

127. people have blind spots. Short term memories.

You and I remember it, but we aren't encouraged to. Also, we are encouraged to see things in black and white. Added to a fuzzy knowledge of the world, these things happen, to all of us. Though I never supported Communists or anything, there were times when I was younger that the thought would cross my mind that somehow the Soviets were providing an alternative. (NOT.) And now I have lived in the former Eastern Bloc, and I can say that if you think Repubs are suit-wearing creeps, you oughta see the Commies.

Likewise these days I have to keep in mind that just because the US is raining death and horror and occupation onto the Arab world, it doesn't make the Arab leaders into good guys. (It helps that I have an Algerian friend who presented the paradox that though the war is a blight on humanity, the other Arab leaders must have really freaked to see Saddam behind bars. They are all bastards who belong there. But an illegal, unilateral, profit-driven, corrupt and probably complicit moves by the immoral superpower is not the solution.)

thanks for letting me sound off.

[zalinda]

23. I don't know who or what ANSWER is

but they certainly didn't help their cause yesterday. Most people saw an organization who took advantage of a group of war protesters. People traveled, in some cases thousands of miles to protest a war, and then heard a group go on and on about stuff they just didn't care about. The people came to protest a war, not to hear about all different type of injustices going on. This is called watering down the message. ANSWER would have been much more effective if they had handed out literature and signed people up for a mailing list, whether snail or email.

Right now, I wouldn't give ANSWER the time of day, much less any money. Nor will I be interested in anything they have to say. They took a beautiful and wonderful thing and turned it into a shotgun of messages. Why do dems lose? Watering down the message. Why do repubs win? They stay on message. Simple....

zalinda

[rman]

39. People didn't go to DC to protest the occupation of Palestine.

The ANSWER groups knew that in advance.
Apparently forming a united front against the Bush administration was less important to them then to take the opportunity to push their pet-issues.

That's why many people stopped listening to the ANSWER speakers and went on to do what they had come to DC for.
That speaks for itself, but i doubt ANSWER will heed the lesson - yet again, and will keep on playing right into the RW's hands.

[merwin]

93. What did you think 'Right of return' meant?

Here's their fliers:

http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24flyers

[Straight Shooter]

58. If A.N.S.W.E.R. had not been there, who would the media have focused on?

There's your answer. Not that the media focused that much on the march to begin with, but it would help to have a clear, united message. I agree with above poster, get an organization like PDA to head the charge.

A.N.S.W.E.R.'s shotgun-approach agenda is a distraction, a noisy clamorous distraction, which is no doubt applauded by Rove, et al.

[tlsmith1963]

110. Oh, Maybe...the Iraq War?

I mean, you *know* what O'Reilly will focus on tomorrow--the ANSWER people. They gave him a weapon--"Look at those freaky Liberals!" If ANSWER hadn't been so involved, O'Reilly would have nothing for his show. And that's the way I would have liked it. Don't give those neocon morons what they want. Stay on message, & be mature about it.

Tammy

[Tinoire]

118. LMAO!

If the media had ANY intention of focusing on the Iraq war they would have done so long ago.

:rofl: at the idiocy being displayed by a very small but loud faction here.

[DS1]

61. FREE MUMIA

There, now it's an official A.N.S.W.E.R. protest.

[nvliberal]

62. The minute

anybody engages in crackpot conspiracy theories regarding JFK, RFK, and MLK, they lose me totally.

There's no evidence of conspiracies in ANY of these deaths, although many people have made a lot of money pushing this nonsense.

There's no credibility in espousing nonsensical conspiracy theories. Period, regardless of questions surrounding A.N.S.W.E.R.

[Vincardog]

69. Right crackpot conspiracy theories regarding JFK, RFK, and MLK,

WTF are those people thinking? As if anybody would really organize and assassinate the last real progressives in the USA. We all know the Right Wing has such a deep abiding Respect for life and truth.

[ima_sinnic]

76. yeah. right. "no evidence," no, none whatsoever . . .

whatever.

thanks for playing.

:eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. Thank you so much Minstrel Boy for this well thought out post. It ANSWERS

those nagging questions about ANSWER that I had.

I live a good deal of my life using my gut feelings and they very rarely prove me wrong, and as I sat there watching rant after rant of the speakers scheduled by ANSWER my gut was telling me that this was a set-up. I have no doubt that many of those speakers were sincere about their causes and there were a few I agreed with, but thought that this wasn't the time for those issues to be addressed. I believe ANSWER used these good people to get the results that they wanted.

You put the puzzle piece into place for me.

It is also very naive of posters to deny that this government has never used agent provocateurs against its citizenry and if anyone tells you a tinfoil hat joke, just tell them to go to the wikipedia entry. They can then investigate further from there if they wish.

Thank you again and peace.

[Nikki Stone 1]

67. At very least, ANSWER diluted the message.

...

[Alizaryn]

73. I don't for a second debate the fact that

ANSWERS has and had the right yesterday to speak for as long and in whatever fashion it wanted.

My problem is, what was their objective in regards to furthering the multi-causes they spoke to? My opinion is that the quantity of speakers and variety did little to further any objective that might include "increasing support" and really led to alienating many minds that could have been captured with a less overwhelming approach.

Additionally, (and selfishly I realize) I was increasingly upset as I watched and the speakers continued knowing that the limited time left in CSPAN's schedule was being spent showing the every changing speakers and prevented the nation and world from seeing the numbers of those actually marching to the White House.

I saw it as a double failure on their part. (I mean this as constructive criticism, honestly.)
First, they alienated many opened minded people who they might have reached by over-doing it.
Second they prevented the media attention that was scraped and begged for from capturing the most potent statement of the entire day. One Hundred thousand plus people gathered to voice an opinion.

[bos1]

81. W.Clark -- member -- Int'l Committee To Defend Milosevic. nt

[shance]

95. Please prove that and don't just post an accusation.

n/t

[bos1]

98. links

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/50/news-corn.php

For years, Clark has been on a bizarre political odyssey, much of the time in sync with the Workers World Party. As an attorney, he has represented Lyndon LaRouche, the leader of a political cult. He has defended Serbian war criminal Radovan Karadzic and Pastor Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, who was accused of participating in the genocide in Rwanda in 1994. Clark is also a member of the International Committee To Defend Slobodan Milosevic. The international war-crimes tribunal, he explains, “is war by other means” — that is, a tool of the West to crush those who stand in the way of U.S. imperialism, like Milosevic. A critic of the ongoing sanctions against Iraq, Clark has appeared on talking-head shows and refused to concede any wrongdoing on Saddam’s part.

Also see http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/06/21/clark/

[Inland]

99. That's RAMSEY Clark. nt

[bos1]

140. Check. change the W. to R. nt

[Inland]

97. Are coms anti war, or just on another side?

I think that resort to armed struggle is certainly within the tenets of communism, including with or within the US.

Unless one is sure that the communists and trotskyites aren't going to be given us a Jane Fonda moment where they cheer peace less than the combatants on the other side, I certainly am not going to hold hands for any purpose.

The concept that a crew of deadenders are going to provide the moral and intellectual impetus for a peace movement is more of a description of a hijacking that the communists wish would happen, not one that is or should.

[robertpaulsen]

101. Kick. Good one, MB!

:kick:

[Ladyhawk]

105. I really don't believe the conspiracy theories about JFK's assassination.

I haven't done enough research into MLK, Jr.'s and RFK's assassinations to have a valid opinion on them. I'm not happy with A.N.S.W.E.R. diluting the message of the march, but it has nothing to do with their past politics.

On edit: I looked at A.N.S.W.E.R.'s site and I don't want to have anything to do with them. They espouse a definite Marxist agenda.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

113. why not have Air America do an event?

get randi, hartmann, and malloy to speak, along with janeane and sam (franken wouldn't do it) and promote it on all the stations. it would ne huge

[paineinthearse]

114. What's wrong with supporting a communist organization?

China is a "most favored nation", it is where all our high tech jobs have gone.

What's the big deal?

[Tinoire]

They're against the war and pro-Palestine n/t

[Tinoire]

119. They're against the war and pro-Palestine n/t

[Tinoire]

120. They're against the war and pro-Palestine n/t

[Degtyarev]

116. Hey I have a great idea

if you guys have such a big problem with communist organizations running the antiwar protests how about having the protests organized by the Democratic Party ?

[sendero]

128. A good question might be..

.... just what percentage of the people who showed up knew this demonstration was organized by ANSWER. I'm betting it was really low, and I'm betting the next party they throw will be less well attended.

Putting together such a demonstration cannot be that big a deal. Not big enough to have the whole thing ruined by association with an organization that has as much chance of ever being mainstream as I do of becoming POTUS in 2008.

We really just don't need this kind of baggage.

[txaslftist]

132. Exactly right.

People went to the protest because they were urged to by websites like this one.

It was billed (on the websites, at least) as an anti-Iraq war march. It was NOT billed as a free MUMIA march.

I don't know who Mumia is. Don't care.

Get us out of Iraq.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

134. Kick! eom

[Czolgosz]

139. I don't know about all the other stuff, but this was priceless: "Much of

"Much of the noise (about ANSWER) comes from embarrassed moderates, who are new to the demonstration game and are simply not that demonstrative."

Best line of the day.