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Here's my problem with all the "anti-A.N.S.W.E.R. Posts here on DU.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:30 PM
Original message
Here's my problem with all the "anti-A.N.S.W.E.R. Posts here on DU.
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 04:43 PM by KoKo01
Let me start by saying that many of those who have been posting about A.N.S.W.E.R. here are people that have long time DU credibility and are posters I always read. So, this isn't a post to question your judgement about A.N.S.W.E.R....but to try to give you my own perspective.

-------------
(SOAP BOX ALERT!)

I think, Saturday's Rally was a BREAKTHROUGH because FINALLY we NOW HAVE OUR OWN FOLKS to SPEAK FOR US... We have finally found OUR OWN POWER. Cindy Sheehan and Galloway and our Black Caucus Reps and other speakers who spoke so eloquently about ending Iraq Invasion and Holding Bush Accountable were THE FOCUS of this Protest along with the "ordinary Americans" who turned out and were very visible to anyone viewing C-Span. The screamers were just the indigestion after dessert at this rally,imho.

It's a TIPPING POINT...and anyone who showed up and marched in DC knows that there are MORE OF US than WHATEVER there is of "A.N.S.W.E.R. that bothers so many folks here.

LET'S Focus on OUR AGENDA and not worry so much about "A.N.S.W.E.R. because what happened this weekend proved that AMERICA IS TURNING AGAINST BUSH and FREEPERS COULDN'T GET ENOUGH FOLKS to DC TO STAND UP FOR THEIR BUSH even with G.Gordon Liddy and Congressmen and Religious Evangelicals as their feature. I wonder why they couldn't get Franklin Graham to show up. :D

Point is, THE "PEACE RALLY" WAS A HUGE SUCESS! FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT! DON't GET BOGGED DOWN IN all the "sinister" stuff about Ramsey Clark/Commies/Socialists/Anarchists. For all those hundreds of thousands to show up when we had two hurricane's aftermaths sucking the media's attention just shows HOW STRONG the "Get Out of Iraq/Impeach Bush sentiment really is out there.

Ordinary AMERICANS WERE THERE! With their kids and parents and their beautiful shining faces. FEEL PROUD! DU'ers WERE THERE AS A GROUP...BONDED!

(Note: I attended our NC Peace Rally where I met Cindy two weeks ago and have marched and attended everything here in NC. Big rallies and small rallies and candlelight vigils...so I've put my time in too...just not in D.C. so I'm not just blowing smoke here.)

:rant:
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. What does the "S" in ANSWER stand for?
cant find that letter in: democraticunderground.com
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. don't worry about it...I also think they could be a CIA FRONT...But...
for now...ignore it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Right there with you
On both counts. But timing is everything and today is not the day to focus on ANSWER.
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree with you...
It was upsetting to hear the variety of nonsense (and some not nonsense) that the ANSWER people spewed. HOWEVER, it was pretty obvious that most of the people in the audience and the marchers were there to protest Bush and his misbegotten war. I think the ralley and march were a huge success in spite of the media blackout.
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. It did look great, from what those of us
who couldn't go but managed to see from web traffic cams and photos from activists posted on the web. Maybe some of us (me) are just disappointed we didn't get to see it on CSPAN in real life. Hunting and pecking to look at web traffic cams, eh, somehow just isn't the same.

But you are right, it does look like it was a phenomenal event, a great success and it did represent a turning point from last year in terms of the numbers and how many were from what looked like mainstream America.

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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. ANSWER has a annual march
that is organized around the WORLD BANK annual summit. I don't know much about the group, but am thankful that they are watching the monies.
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Recalling my days of anti V Nam war protests
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 04:56 PM by niallmac
in Los Angeles and San Francisco I saw lots of Socialist and Marxist pamphlets amongst the mass of purely anti war literature. I never thought much of it other than; "Gee, I don't know squat about 'these people'. How nice they are anti war." I do not recall the main stream media of the time focusing on their presence at rallies. The anti war movement of that time could be considered pretty successful.
I was unaware of ANSWER until I started paying attention to the posts today.
What is the big objection to ANSWER?
Is it their stance about the Israeli Palestinian conflict?
Is it the socialist elements in ANSWER?
I for one agree that the U.S. bias in the ME conflict is injurious to a resolution of the conflict.
I also feel that U.S. politics are overly influenced by PACs including AIPAC.
I firmly believe that capitalism must be counterbalanced by socialist programs. I want a government that looks out for the PEOPLE and I do not consider corporations PEOPLE.
But even if I disagreed with ANSWERs positions above i do not see why we have to be
frightened of an organization that walks the walk when it comes to calling this governments war hysteria a sham and takes it to the streets. Democracy is not tidy. Fascism is ever so tidy or else.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. ANSWER Uses The American Left The Way The Neo-Cons Uses
the racists and homophobes.

ANSWER has its own agenda which has nothing to do with living in a representational democracy.
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Can you spell that out a little for me?
What have they done or are they doing in this regard?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Good points...
Why should those who showed up in DC (and it was a HUGE effort to fight the traffic and the Rita, Rita, Rita and Katrina focus to get one's butt off the ground and do it) be tarred because C-Span focused on A.N.S.W.E.R.?

I'm very anti-Corporatist (the greedy CEO's who are bilking US and us out of our earnings who emerged in the 90's with the Dot Coms) but does that mean I don't go march for PEACE in DC because there are some freaks there screaming? Some of the folks actually made good points.

Captitalism Gone Amuck is something we DU'ers know something about...so I can have sympathy ...even if it's sincere folks who only focus on Globilization who have been suckered into some CIA Front.

Things have a way of moving out "on their own legs" so to give these groups that we think are Fringy/Freakie so much power that we can't demonstrate with them for "now...which suits our purpose" seems kind of self defeating? :shrug:
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WarNoMore Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think your point is valid.
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 05:06 PM by WarNoMore
Imagine my surprise, when I tuned into C-Span for the 2000 inagaural protest, and I saw.....ANSWER! I pretty much felt like many of you, that the message was muddled. But, 5 1/2 years later, it still is ANSWER that has the organization that gets the permits, etc. I still feel the message gets muddied, but it's not as if we are joining a platform for the Communist party. Maybe we could learn something about their organizational skills. It's not like they're the new kid on the block, and I don't get too worked up about their various messages. It was still a huge accomplishment to see the kind of turnout there was. I can take satisfaction in that.


on edit: If I have a reply and don't respond, it's because I have to go pick up my grandson at work.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. All I know is that the bus that I boarded Fri. night had an ANSWER
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 05:13 PM by tnlefty
sign in the window, and I wasn't aware that group had coordinated that bus, but I wasn't about to give up my seat and not go because of the sign on the window. I donate money to United for Peace and Justice and work with that group to do things locally.

I was going even if the sign in the window had read SATAN. After Mr. Galloway spoke we were ready to line up for the march anyway and didn't care about the speakers who followed although we thought some of it was crap because it was going on too long and we were itching to "walk the walk".

Perhaps I'll think about it tomorrow, but now I'm basking in the exhaustion!

edit: spelling
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Practicality sometimes conquers Purpose and in your case it seems
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 05:46 PM by KoKo01
true. I agree ...if the bus got me to DC and it had an "A.N.S.W.E.R." sign in the window but it was the ONLY way I could go...I would do it.

We needed to "seize the hour with Bush's polls down...we needed to show FORCE."

Now, I also have dread of "buses to Hell where nightmares tell me I might have gotten "on the wrong bus" and am with the "wrong people" but that's a creep out and you just gotta do what you have to. :shrug:

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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Everyone on that bus was very understanding and kind when it
involved my 10 yr. old son, who went on the bus charming everyone involved, but being kind to my kid in close quarters is gonna garner favor with me. I never had dread, just excitement and it was a very positive experience! Just saying that nothing was gonna keep us from going.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. people who have actually attended a large DC rally know
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 05:18 PM by G_j
the podium speeches are not the focus and many attendees don't even get close enough to hear them or are still arriving at the time. The focus is on the march. In this case, there was also a huge concert later with incredible performers (shown partly on Democracy Now! ) Today there were prayer services etc. organized by UFPJ I believe. Tomorrow there will be Congressional lobbying and civil disobedience.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you for your positive orientation.
Those who bring unity to us, who help us see our power and focus our collective strength toward a common enemy -- THESE ARE OUR FRIENDS AND WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM. Those who broadcast dissension and suspicion among us WITHOUT GOOD EVIDENCE are not our friends and are not to be trusted.*

NOTE: I am thankful for minstrelboy's provocative post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4878874&mesg_id=4878874

So, I am NOT saying we should not be aware and think critically. Quite the contrary.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Agree...and "Minstrel Boy" makes valid points in that post...we should
always question beware of the knives focused on our backs...but THIS PROTEST...was a HUGE SHINING MOMENT. We have all Winter to plan the next strategy.

That's why I wanted folks to know that I think what folks who post "cautions" to about A.N.S.W.E.R. are really doing us a service by giving us more information...but we have so many NEW DU'ers who showed up enduring long hours...and for them to get bogged down in what some of us Old Time DU'ers might question sort of makes them feel bad...when in fact it WAS THEIR SHINING MOMENT! I don't think folks need to be any more depressed about our world than they are.

If we keep looking at all the spooks who are probably under our bed we will never do ANYTHING.

If the "spooks" are there..then we must become STRONGER than they are...is what I'm saying and to do that one shouldn't be afraid that you might sometimes come across them in pushing forward one's OWN AGENDA.

:shrug:
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. If there aren't "spooks under our bed" then we are ineffective. I always
have some romantic hope (silly me!) that SOMEDAY THE SPOOKS WILL JOIN US! Hey, what is the vision of tomorrow that the fascists have? They increasingly consolidate their power and as they do so anyone who disagrees in any respect with them becomes their new found enemy -- to be eradicated like all the rest. Why? Because the fascists are essentially PARANOID MISINTHORPS. They hate humankind, they hate themselves, they hate life and the mother Earth.

We see a different vision. We see that people CAN work together, CAN build community, CAN cooperate to create a world that, although perhaps not perfect, at least can protect certain unalienable Rights, among these being Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. But to do this, men and women must be free from the tyranny of those who PROFIT FROM WAR, who profit from sowing dissension and distraction and confusion. Paranoid Misinthorps simply DO NOT GET THIS. They can't. To them we are utter fools. However, to maintain their power they must deceive and lie -- and that is the truth and it is that truth which ultimately will bring them down.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. And, Valerie Plame joined us...who knows what other spooks are looking
to us to help them out! Good point...and I way lefty anti-Globilization for the sake of One World Order, and think IMF and World Bank need huge reform and regulation and we have so many problems with Privatization vs. Government Funding.

So, I'm always lefty here on DU although I'm very mainstream on some other issues that wouldn't seem to fit.

We should be composits and learn to compromise...but the Repugs have ruined compromise in Govt...so we are here ...we Dems slogging it out.

But this was a PEACE PROTEST/MARCH...We need to feel so glad that Cindy Sheehan got out there and did the first "softening up" of bush by weakening him so that when Katrina struck it was out there for all to see... Iraq Disaster=Homeland Security Disaster.

Bush was never a STRONG LEADER. He was in our pockets with his cronies stealing us blind while telling us to VOTE FOR ME...I WILL KEEP YOU SAFE. We can ALL see that we could end up in our local Football or Hockey Stadium starved death and sitting in our own wastes if we leave it up to HIS "Strong Leadership." :shrug:
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Cindy is REAL. Bush is a FAKE. He is not a "leader" at all, he is a front
man for big oil and military industries. That is all. The United States of America does not HAVE a President and hasn't for FIVE YEARS! The interloper masquerading as one is nothing but an old, swaggering alcoholic frat boy. :puke:

Cindy is real. She isn't perfect, but then real never is perfect. But she is sincere. Like so many others, she has been WOUNDED by a system that has no care for her, her humanity, her family, her values. People see this and recognize in her that quality of sincerity and they realize, as you say, that there but for grace we all could be -- and may yet be if these monsters have their way. OUR LIVES ARE IN DANGER. This is not hyperbole. They want war and much more war than they have. They've been very open about it. And no doubt they will do whatever necessary to make it happen IF THEY ARE NOT STOPPED.

The future of humanity is at stake and, again, this is not exaggeration. What THIS generation does, those of us living this day, will determine the future of all humankind.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. I agree, and I don't like ANSWER
I wish the activist groups would separate themselves from ANSWER altogether. But for today, the focus should be on all the positive from the peace marches and rallies and candlelight vigils. I'm disgusted with all these anti-ANSWER posts that do as much to take the focus away from the peace marches as ANSWER itself did.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. You just hit the nail on the head...
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 06:18 PM by Violet_Crumble
But for today, the focus should be on all the positive from the peace marches and rallies and candlelight vigils. I'm disgusted with all these anti-ANSWER posts that do as much to take the focus away from the peace marches as ANSWER itself did.


Why I'm disgusted with a lot of what I've seen posted at DU over the past 24hrs is that it appears to me that for a lot of DUers, opposition to the war comes in a pretty poor second to saying how much they think ANSWER sucks. In some cases it's to the point where they try to pretend that the marches and rallies were an abysmal failure, and actually seem happy about that...

Just had to return and add something: The anti-ANSWER post that most disgusted me was one where the poster said that communists and socialists shouldn't be associated with opposition to the war in Iraq. I'm a socialist who has attended rallies against the war, and that sort of attempt to exclude anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with that particular poster's views is not the sort of thing I thought I'd see at DU...

Violet...
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. That's like saying that Cornel West and Gloria Stienem should...
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 07:03 PM by Solon
STFU just because they are associated (Honorary Chairs) of the Democratic Socialists of America. Also, should the United for Peace and Justice group disavow this member group? Same could be said for Debs old party the SPUSA.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. And the "Suffragette's" who fought for the vote for women...
we could go on and on about groups for change getting co-opted and having to deal with other issues...and there's a time to take our issue for ourselves...and to make bargains and coalitions. That's how folks start new movements.

For now...it was just great to see only maybe 150 Freeps with big Freep Media and Congress support against Hundreds of Thousands! :-)'s
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. There was SO MUCH POSITIVE....it's sad and disheartening to focus on
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 07:37 PM by KoKo01
the Negative... So many new folks took time out of their busy lives to show force and it's says we are growing in huge numbers...why discourage folks who don't know all the "inner workings" that we Long Time DU'ers know about and have dealt with.

Ramsey Clark wasn't the only speaker and the shreakers and screamers who offended folks were at the very end when most folks were already marching.

That march sets forth tremendous energy for GOOD. Forget C-Span...we have Brian's "Right Wing Friday"s" to understand the cables are breathing down their neck and they ONLY EXIST because of the Cables..so they don't have much leash lenght left with Bush FCC and the Bush Crime family hot on their tale. Maybe Brian is a Commie or a PsyOp...I don't know. I just know he didn't used to be what he's become.

At least C-Span covered it and they aren't "into editing" so we can't complain if they show us the Repug Antics "uncut" then they had to show the Screamers about Palestine...so we need to deal with it for now.

:shrug:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Isn't it that this really has less to do with ANSWER
and more to do with the fact that CSPAN made it appear that ANSWER represented the entire anti-Iraq war movement? My anger and disappointment is at CSPAN (and of course the other MSM for virtually no coverage) and I e-mailed CSPAN during their coverage to tell them that focusing on ANSWER was misrepresenting the broad range of people who were there demonstrating.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think a lot of the rancor against ANSWER comes from people who don't
like the Palestinians to have a voice in the U.S. That's what ANSWER is mostly known for, as to controversy. I think we should be paying special attention to marginalized groups and voices, even if their spokespeople are not polished and P.R.-saavy. They don't often get a platform and they may have something to teach us.

For one thing, in this instance, the Palestinian cause is huge in the Arab/Muslim world, and central to animosity toward the U.S. We don't often hear about it from our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and virtually never from a pro-Palestinian perspective. We really do need to understand this point of view--and anyone who thinks that it is not central to the Iraq war is foolishly uninformed.

Another oft-cited item is the Mumia movement. I, too, find them kind of boring and one-note, but I have to admire them for their persistence, and I did read about the Mumia case, and I think there is cause to protest his imprisonment. Would that all unjustly imprisoned black men had such advocates! I really detest the way some DUers have dissed this group--mindlessly, reflexively, it seems. And, again, we are talking about people who have been marginalized and disempowered. Belonging to ANSWER and helping organize events may be their only chance to express what they have judged to be injustice.

Why pick on them so much? It reminds me of bad parents who pick on one kid--the runt of the litter, the snot-nosed one, the difficult one, and badmouth him, and slap him upside the head. It seems stupid and low-minded.

ANSWER is a big tent, like America should be. It is a refuge for the UNHEARD. And I think we should just shut up sometimes and LISTEN. Maybe we won't agree. Maybe the speaker is unconvincing. But what is the harm of listening--and of being PROUD of listening, and promoting it as a value?

Finally, I really disagree with those who say that a protest like this should be "one issue." The Iraq war is NOT a one-issue situation, and stopping this particular conflict is NOT going to prevent other wars just like it, nor address the conditions that have made such a crime possible--including our corrupt election system in the U.S., with Bushite corporations controlling our vote tabulation with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code!

If we had had a transparent, verifiable election in 2004, we wouldn't be in this mess--with the president never listening, and Congress never listening, not even to 400,000 people, or however many HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS protested yesterday.

The Iraq war is intimately connected to injustice, here in the U.S. and abroad. We have for too long permitted U.S.-global corporations to prey upon the world--and on ourselves!--and we have for too long permitted an humongous military machine to suck the life blood out of our country, while providing us with nothing that even remotely resembles "defense." When the crunch came, and we were actually attacked, on 9/11, they STOOD DOWN. They couldn't even defend the Pentagon!

Some Department of DEFENSE!

This is an aggressive military machine, with more weapons of mass destruction than anybody on earth--and a standing temptation to fascists and to global corporate predators, who now have grabbed control of it.

What are we doing with this bloated military machine? What is it FOR?

And the fact that there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY for these things--for unilateral war, for torture, for Halliburton looting, for $5/gal gas prices, for tens of thousands of slaughtered Iraqis, for poor blacks in New Orleans left behind to rot and die, and all the rest, is what we should be addressing. WHY is there no accountability? What's wrong with our system that these things can happen?

If we don't solve that problem, we CAN'T STOP THE WAR. We have no power to do so. We can put a million people in the streets, and our rulers can just IGNORE IT.

And if they aren't worried about elections, because they've got that all sewed up now, then we MUST try every way we can to change that. Because without that power--the power of the vote--they have no REASON to listen to us.

Anyway, you see my point. A "one issue" antiwar campaign is a hi-jackable campaign. NIXON hi-jacked it in 1968--just as LBJ had hi-jacked the peace theme in 1964. LBJ!!! The 1964 PEACE candidate. (I have a long memory!)

Cindy Sheehan certainly knows this. She does not restrict herself to the war. The war cannot, and should not, be seen in isolation from everything that made this unjust war possible.

I think we made that mistake in the Vietnam war movement. We didn't address the fundamentals--or we didn't stick to them: an economy based on war, which had never been demobilized after WW II. The restless search for "enemies" to keep the war profiteers fat and profitable. And the creation of an underclass of slave-wage workers and cannon fodder.

There were voices then--voices crying in the wilderness about the threat of Corporate Rule, and the threat posed by maintaining a war machine, and the ill health of a war economy. Perhaps if we had listened better. Perhaps some of those voices could have been heard.

There WERE consequences to the Vietnam War. Our government didn't dare try anything like that again for 40 years. And some of the worst crap that the Reagan-Bush criminals were up to was stopped (especially in Central/South America). But we had a more responsive democracy at that time--with no Diebold and ES&S choosing our office holders.

So now we have to ask HOW IS IT that 400,000 people protesting in Washington DC can be ignored?

We MUST ask it. And if we don't, what we're going to get out of all of this is a War Democrat who pays lip service to progressive values, and who will therefore get a "honeymoon" period in which to blab at so-called "peace talks" ad infinitum, with the occupation extended for years, at the constant risk of expanded war, and--mark my words--a military Draft (which Bush can't do).

We have got to look at the bigger picture--how we got so DISENFRANCHISED, and what it means, and how to fix it. And it's not all bad. We were disenfranchised for the very REASON that our votes as Americans are the most powerful force in the world for CURTAILING global corporate predators and warmongers. They can't afford to permit transparent, verifiable elections here. Think about that!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Thanks for all those interesting points...that make alot of sense
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 06:34 PM by KoKo01
and I understand what you say...along with those who are very afraid that we could get sucked into another "defeat."

I'm trying to look at both sides and be "political/big picture" and figure that we can use these groups (because some of us are against globilzation and see a tie in to what the Bushies/PNAC/Neo-Cons are doing) but I know that many DU'ers ARE "One Issue" and would be turned off by "Socialists/Commies" (as they see them ...and don't want to be tarred with that)

It's a fine line to walk...but here's a quote from your post...

"Finally, I really disagree with those who say that a protest like this should be "one issue." The Iraq war is NOT a one-issue situation, and stopping this particular conflict is NOT going to prevent other wars just like it, nor address the conditions that have made such a crime possible--..."

We have got to look at the bigger picture--how we got so DISENFRANCHISED, and what it means, and how to fix it. And it's not all bad. We were disenfranchised for the very REASON that our votes as Americans are the most powerful force in the world for CURTAILING global corporate predators and warmongers. They can't afford to permit transparent, verifiable elections here. Think about that


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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. you make a lot of good points
I don't see the Iraq war as isolated, either.

Like I was discussing in another thread - (while not esp. a "positive" message) - it seems to me that the anti-war movement has gotten it's focus recently by identifying with American Patriotism (or selfishness - depending on how you want to look at it.)

Maybe that is best way to sell it. Get Americans concerned about American soldiers killed (and their mothers), and Americans who died because of diverted resources. Maybe that is the way to redirect their nationalism.


I would rather see people become more concerned about the corporate problem, the problems of unregulated capitalism, the military-industrial complex and all of that. But maybe too many Americans are immersed in the culture of multinationals to make a dent that way.

I am happy to see whatever appeal that works.

It does seem that Bush* is building his dream upon the sand by doing business with Katrina in the same manner as Iraq - the no-bid Halliburton et.al. contracts - because people might begin to see just how "not in their own interest" BushCo. (and the Republicans) can be.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. This thread deserves more than 2 Nominations! Common, folks!
Koko01 is telling us to appreciate ourselves and what we accomplished! SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WENT TO WASHINGTON DC TO SHOW THEIR DISPLEASURE WITH THE BUSH REGEME AND THEIR NEFARIOUS WAR!

Did the media tell it like it was? Hell no. Did we expect them to?? I sure as hell didn't. But it happened because people cared enough to make it happen

THANK YOU TO ONE AND ALL! Take a bow!!

:toast: :bounce: :patriot: :woohoo: :yourock: :headbang: :grouphug: :loveya: :hi:
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Puregonzo1188 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. I went to the march
and listened to very little of ANSWER's dribble. I marched though and felt the protest was a huge success. It wasn't till I got back home and checked DU that I became aware of how ANSWER had gotten all the CSPAN coverage. I had listened to them a little, felt pretty disgusted with them, ignored them, marched, and than came home to discover they had gotten all the attention. I was very upset, and with good reason.

Though after today seeing little coverage of ANSWER in the MSM and finding out there was 300,000-500,000 other people marching with me in the streets, taking back our country, very little of them having even heard of or being associated with ANSWER I felt good again. I never once thought of encouraging people not to attend future marches or felt I had mistaken in attending the 9/24 one, just angry that ANSWER exploited the march for all its pet causes, but it seems other then CSPAN they're received little attention.

Although the march itself received little coverage in the MSM, it still got more than ANSWER and with 300,000-500,000 people marching against the war I would say the march was a pretty big success.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks for posting this KoKo
Having been sucked in to one of the anti-answer posts and trying to stand up for yesterday's protest.

The protest was a huge success in my opinion. People who had never attended one showed up and were energized. It was creative and fun and while we may not know how many actually were there, Karl Rove does. I'm sure the helicopters over head were getting info to figure that out. He also knows how diverse the crowd was. The speeches were mostly on point, but there have been splinter issues at every protest I've ever attended.

If someone besides ANSWER steps up, great. But should we all stay home and prove Karl Rove's fantasy that the anti-war movemrent doesn't exist?

I only wish I knew there was a DU group...I would have loved to meet some of you.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Karl Rove is probably sitting there with his eyeballs rolling and his
tongue hanging out trying to figure out "where the hell he went wrong" in his perfect scheme. Also the DC folks know...the pollsters know and I've got to figure tht some WaPo person skulked out there...just in case to scope out the crowd.

They don't want us to KNOW that our numbers are GROWING...and for the First Time WE reflect the POLL NUMBERS.

That's why this was a Huge success. They cover up all the protests and marches. They do it here locally in NC and in every state. It's THEY who are afraid of US..and they need to be very afraid.

Thanks for your post...because why should we all stay home and Prove Rove's Point!
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. My problem was with CSPAN
who gave the impression that the entire event was about ANSWER and their unfocused speakers and the tiny crowd at the end. However I know that very few people were watching CSPAN yesterday and it doesn't really have a net effect.

Overall this was a hugely successful and meaningful protest, and I am grateful to ANSWER and UFPJ and everyone else who contributed to making it happen. Mostly to the hundreds of thousands who showed up.

I also totally agree that the real point here is that we DO now have our own leadership and voice. I would've liked to have seen more Dem party leaders there, but I understand (grudgingly) why they weren't; I loved seeing Cindy Sheehan and Jesse Jackson and most of all members of Congress up there speaking.



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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. better to watch Democracy Now!
extended coverage: interviews, music etc. excellent*****
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I heard "Sky TV" and "Link TV" did a great job...but I don't have access
Edited on Sun Sep-25-05 07:54 PM by KoKo01
to either. Folks who were posting here from those links seemed to be much more positive about what they saw that what C-Span showed. I watched the first speeches on C-Span then kind of came in and out if there was a "screamer" on. But, I was glad to see folks talking in reasoned quiet voices about Haiti (which we overthrew their govt. and they were devastated by a huge hurricane last year and no one seems to care). There were a couple of poets I enjoyed and some others. I just hit the "Mute" button whenever it got too rowdy. :shrug:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-25-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. it is not up on the website yet
but I'm pretty sure it will be

yes, it gives a far DEEPER feel and impression of the rally

If people watched this, they probably wouldn't even be discussing ANSWER right now


www.democracynow.org
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