What has been the reaction on here to this whole Tillman thing?

[vi5]

I admittedly have not had time to read this board in a while. But reading a few articles about how it's coming out now that Pat Tillman may have been a pretty liberal guy who oppossed Bush, was against the Iraq war, and was a fan of Chomsky I've been curious to but haven't seen many threads.

Something about all this coming out now makes me suspicious, but it's interesting that a lot of it is coming from his mother so I don't see what she'd have to gain by saying any of this.

I remember there was quite a bit of venom on here towards Tillman as being some kind of right wing jock, etc. etc. And a lot of defenders of Ted Rall's cartoon calling him an idiot. Personally I was in the middle on the whole thing. I had no desire to excoriate Rall for voicing his opinion, or to insult a guy who whatever his political leanings put his money where his mouth was and enlisted and fought for his country.

But I'm curious what the tone has been on here regarding this over the past couple of days.

[annabanana]

1. I don't recall the "venom" here..

do you have some links?

He enlisted immediately post 9-11 and I think most here understood that.

[vi5]

13. My clarification (Original post won't let me edit).

I should have clarified. The venom as directed at people who called Rall's cartoon over the line or questioned whether it was appropriate. Those threads were what resulted in some rather acrimonious posts directed at Tillman. I really should have clarified that. My apologies.

[phaseolus]

2. funny...

...what I remember, from around the time that he died, was that most DUers were impressed and appreciative that he gave up a multimillion dollar gig to enlist for patriotic reasons. Criticism may have been there but I remember it being greatly outweighed by the positive feelings.

[vi5]

16. See my other clarifications...

...I apologize for a poor choice of words and lack of clarification.

[benburch]

3. One or two nutcases here might have had some "venom".

Most of the rest of us thought it a sad loss.

[vi5]

15. My poor choice of words.

I should have clarified. The venom was directed at people who called Rall's cartoon over the line or questioned whether it was appropriate. Those threads were what resulted in some rather acrimonious posts directed at Tillman. I really should have clarified that. My apologies.

[ohio_liberal]

4. The venom came from the fact...

that the poor guy was killed by friendly fire, no?

[vi5]

14. My clarification (original post won't let me edit)

I should have clarified. The venom as directed at people who called Rall's cartoon over the line or questioned whether it was appropriate. Those threads were what resulted in some rather acrimonious posts directed at Tillman. I really should have clarified that. My apologies.

[BiggJawn]

5. His brother is anti-war...

Other than the revelation that he got fragged by mistake ("Friendly" Fire) a while back, I've not heard anything more about Pat.

[Rockholm]

6. Vemon was at the gov'mint for USING his death..

Those a-holes in DC USED Pat Tillman's death for their war gains. Does anyone remember the Arizona Cardinals football game where he was celebrated? It was all to pump up the county for war. Nothing more.
His story WAS one that we should be proud of and one that should be repeated by the kids of those in DC that voted for the war. He gave up monetary compensation to go off to war and he died. His life should be celebrated. He was a hero.
And those fuckers in Washington USED HIM.
Shame.
Shame.
Shame.

RIP

[mduffy31]

7. I disagree

I saw that game, it was more about his status as a player for Arizona Cardinals, it wasn't about getting people pumped up for war.

[Rockholm]

8. I disagree with you.

It was a celebration of his life which was indeed became a recruiting tool for the armed forces.

[buff2]

9. Bu$h and his gang of thugs will use anything and anyone

for their own political gain.They used Tillman just like they use everybody for their precious wars.If Tillman was a liberal who was really against this war,then it's no wonder he turned up dead.

[bostonbabs]

10. don't forget who showed up at the funeral

.....Schwarzenegger and Maria ....they actually spoke!,,,,,I agree the government turned it into everything that they could milk it from it....pathetic

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Village Idiot]

11. I can't remember anyone being venomous against Tillman...

but I can sure remember plenty of us being venomous regarding the Pentagon's sham investigation into the Tillman "friendly fire" incident...

Shit - even Tillman's parents were pretty bitter...

And with reason.

[vi5]

12. I went to edit my main post but could not for some reason...

I should have clarified. The venom as directed at people who called Rall's cartoon over the line or questioned whether it was appropriate. Those threads were what resulted in some rather acrimonious posts directed at Tillman. I really should have clarified that. My apologies.

[PurityOfEssence]

18. Keep in mind, too, that Pat Tillman did not believe in god

His brother pointed that out very publicly when the inevitable conflation of patriotism and belief came up at one time.

What were all of his motivations for going to war? Was he also fighting against extreme religious fanaticism? Far too many people use the lives and deaths of others as some proof of their own worldview, so I'm not going to put words in the man's mouth.

Still, the next time some smug idiot tells you that there aren't any atheists in foxholes, bring up the memory of Tillman. I don't know whether he considered himself an atheist, an agnostic or just avoided any label whatsoever, but he did not believe is a supreme being.

Of course this part of the story is never told, and that's deeply wrong on so many levels. Extremist believers in this country are systematically trying to get us all to think that non-believers aren't patriotic or even morally decent in the slightest way; what could have been a nice reminder that the pluralist covenant of this country brings us all together has been ignored for obvious reasons.