Extremely disturbing run-in with my partner's Mom's Fundie Church.

[KyndCulture]

I've been hanging on to this story since saturday but dammit I gotta tell somebody cause it's driving me insane.

My boyfriend's mother is an Assembly of God Fundementalist Christian. We disagree about everything and tend to avoid her when at all possible because it just gets ugly.

On Saturday, Mom calls HYSTERICALLY crying. My boyfriend (we've lived together for 7 yrs) gives me the "it's mom and she's crying" look on the phone. Here's what happened.

Friday night she went to her regular church meeting. The so-called elders of her "church" call her into the office and tell her that she is being asked to leave the church because her children are sinners. Her children being my partner and his 29 year old sister. They told her that if her children would not accept christ and be saved that she could no longer participate in their church. Well my boyfriend and me, and his sister and her husband are not about to be "saved" thank you very much. We are living in sin according to them, and his sister and her husband are childless by choice and all 4 of us are extremely vocal liberals in the community.

Ok, I know this is nuts - beyond the pale NUTS. She's been attending this church for 10 years. She's not all that stable (she takes meds for depression) and she is divorced. She trusts these church people like family.

So now we're dealing with a family crisis cause she's just hysterical.

We love Mom, but we do not want to discuss this. She is putting something off on the 4 of us that is just absolutely disgusting. I've never in my life heard of a church discharging a member for someone ELSES so called bullshit "sins"....

Does anyone have any thoughts on this batshit lunacy?

[trotsky]

1. Well, reason is out the window.

As has been said (and said well), you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

I'd say about all you can do is all make sure she knows how much you love & care about her, but that you're not going to change yourselves just to please her pastor. (Make sure you put the onus on the human beings in charge of her church - might just help her realize that her "faith" is still OK, it's just corrupted by the people in her church.)

[Armstead]

2. Maybe a blessing in disguise

Nothing wrong with religion, except when it's in the wrong hands.

Maybe this will cause your motehr-in-law to think about the hypocritical company she has been keeping and instead find a church that is more tolerant and compassionate.

[moc]

3. That "church" sounds like a seriously sick community

Is there any chance of getting her into a more supportive environment?

I don't agree with many fundamentalist religions communities, but I've never heard of others as wacky as this one sounds. Surely there's another that would be a more appropriate environment.

[Oreo]

4. Disgusting

Just last week there was a story of a kid getting kicked out of a religious school because of his parents being gay (I think that's the reason they used)

Good luck. Another example of Fundies showing exactly how NOT to be a Christian.

[Betsy Ross]

5. She is not in a church,

she is in a cult. Find her a new community, a church with true Christian values and love. Take her there yourselves. Participate in family events with her.

[KyndCulture]

14. Wholeheartedly agree this is a cult...

one she is very much caught up in. That's something we've all known for a very long time.

I'm not an atheist, however my boyfriend and his sister are. There is no way in hell they are going to go to a church with her.

They are trying to be supportive but that's damn hard in this situation since the 4 of us think she's dived off the cliff yet again with the religion thing.

I really don't think she expects any of us to "come to jesus" as she put it. But her mental state is seriously worrying all of us.

Like I said she trusts them.

[speedoo]

36. What Betsy Ross said.

I think your best chance to find a good result here is to somehow find a truly Christian local church to replace the cult she is in now. Much easier said than done, I know, but I would encourage you to ask around for a local Christian minister who might be able to get through to her.

[Betsy Ross]

44. You don't have to be a believer to take/go to church with her.

My husband and I make frequent visits to the local mosque, Episcopal church, synagogue, etc. We have gone for open houses, ecumenical programs, dedication of a new pipe organ, and to thank a pastor for a LTTE. A true religious community is a supportive community that respects people of other faiths and people of good will, atheists or not. That is the kind of community your partner's mother needs, and one in which you should all feel comfortable regardless of your religious or non-religious beliefs.

The "sacrifice" to be made by the family for the mother might be a more pleasant experience than you could imagine.

[moc]

54. Can you get her in to see a pastoral counselor?

Many pastoral counselors are well trained therapists, they just use a spiritual bent.

I'd recommend a regular therapist, but I doubt your boyfriend's mother would accept that. A pastoral counselor might be the ticket though.

[SemperEadem]

73. Interesting choice of words

"Come to Jesus".... I hate to tell her, but from everything I've ever read that supposedly came from the mouth of Jesus--marked in red ink in their own bibles, he isn't in her church.

If they were a real sect, they'd know that you are called--not forced. You come of your own volition, not at the manipulations or threats of another. Perhaps mum forgot that once she lost her way in that church.

Maybe Jesus is using this as a means for her to come to him in a real church teaching what he said and their actions are proof of that.

She'll figure it out. She's a big girl.

[KyndCulture]

75. Personally, I'd tell her to STFU, but I'm not her daughter...

just the hussy that's been living with her son for 7 years... lol


She does not want to start the "come to jesus" shit with me, because I'll win that argument - I've been told to go home a few times by my boyfriend cause I don't tolerate this shit.

I am however, this time, trying to do whats best for all concerned without opening my big liberal mouth to her to tell her how wrong she is.

Maybe there's a better way. lol

[ohio_liberal]

89. If the boyfriend and his sister want some peace

They'll help her find another church. I'd look for a Church of Christ, or even Presbyterian (PCUSA). Unitarian is probably not something she'd be interested in yet if the Fundies brainwashed her.

[anitar1]

115. I doubt she would like a more sane church. These

fundie churches are into a lot of drama and prostelyzing ect. I think the Assembly of God used to be called Holy Rollers as speaking in tongues was a big thing for them in the early days. Went to some just for entertainment. Amazing. Since they started changing their image years ago, they do not allow most members to speak in tongues. They have even dreamed up new names for their"temples".

[elehhhhna]

98. Can't one sue a church for malpractice? Sounds like an appropriate

test case.

[sproutster]

130. It does sound cultish... also

It could be the first step in alienation from her family, to create more dependence on the church. I'd be worried.

[bertha katzenengel]

6. It certainly is batshit lunacy, but I'm not at all surprised.

It's EVIL. If I believed in that God, I'd say God is not in their church. Even an atheist knows that Jesus Christ would never do anything of the sort. I hope she's getting advice from Christian friends who are not members of that church and that they're telling her the same thing.

[FloridaPat]

7. Unreal. Why is this church still in the country after 8 years of Clinton

sex in the White House? You would think they would want a "Christian" country.

[wtbymark]

8. IMO: I'd tell mom, "So sorry"

"So sorry mom, you raised two good independent children that aren't going to change for anyone, time to find a new church"

[iamjoy]

9. Any Chance Mom Misunderstood

Some of these Radical Clerics can get pretty nutso, but this doesn't even make sense. I thought you couldn't force salvation on someone, they have to accept it in their hearts. But, as some one who is not "saved", maybe I don't know.

[Walt Starr]

17. Could also be a ruse the pastor is using to sucker the kids in

I've seen it before, especially with the Lambs of God (Pentecostal Assembly of God).

[KyndCulture]

19. Nope, she didn't misunderstand...

the fuckers put it in writing.

[Rainscents]

38. If she really was KICK out by her church, you'll know this soon enough.

If she continue going to church, you know well, she was lying to all of you!

[elehhhhna]

99. POST THAT LETTER! (please?)

[Ratty]

113. I agree

This is too bizarre, even for fundamentalists. It's one thing to have a kid who lives at home and the parents "tolerate" it, but something quite different for a grown adult who lives elsewhere. If it were me I'd get mad. Very very mad. Then I would get even. Do some research, hunt through some records, find out how many have gay children of their own.

[tocqueville]

10. it's nothing new, guilty by association

a young girl was recently expelled out of a Christian school because her parents were lesbians, in LA I believe...

Communists, Nazis and plenty of Churches (whatever confession) have always used this method. By ostracizing people they keep control over their crowds...

time to explain to your mother who is her REAL family...

[pitohui]

11. this is emotional blackmail

i would back away from the mom until she stops it

she needs professional help, you are not a professional & you cannot continue to enable this sort of hysteria

i doubt the church did or said this but if they did, you can talk to an attorney abt suing them for emotional distress of a sick woman, assembly of god is pretty trashy, but i doubt even they would descend to these depths, if they do, some timely legal action might put a stop to any future victimizations of their members

[Burma Jones]

12. Maybe your boyfriend's Mom is making it all up

My own Mom has made up similar stories in order to influence someone else's behavior.

[KyndCulture]

29. No, we saw the letter...

It's for real... She's a lot of things, but a liar isn't one of them.

She's very sincere about this, and this is a "strip mall" type of cult. I've helped her move some furniture over there and I've seen the place.

This is why I put "church" in quotes.

I'm just venting, cause there is really nothing we can do to help her this time. She's gotta come to grips with what these people do finally and I don't see us helping at all.

[Burma Jones]

35. Good Luck

Cults are awful, awful things

[SemperEadem]

76. Does she have assets?

I just thought of something because this sounds just so batshit crazy---could they be trying to alienate her from her children as a means to gain control over her assets? If she is able to repudiate her own children, they can manipulate her to give them her durable power of attorney, etc.---in other words, preying on an elderly lady by brainwashing her that her children are her enemies and they are better suited to do what she would want.

Have they ever been investigated? Is she the only person they've done this to?

[0rganism]

108. Oh, now that is a good point

Step 1: alienate mother from her children

Step 2: substitute the congregation as "family"

Step 3: substitute the church for the children in her will ("Leave your fortunes to God, not to sinners!")

Watch out for this shit, it is all too common.

[ladjf]

13. One distinct possibility is that mom is fabricating the threat

in an attempt to manipulate the children. If mom is on the level, she needs to be taught that any church organization who would make such a move is an immoral organization and that she should find another church to attend.

[whatever4]

15. Well yeah, I've got a thought

Or two that I won't share, but on this...

Doesn't that bible say something about "I am not my brothers keeper"? Surely that applies equally as well to adult children? How can she be expected to force her adult children to behave? Nothing but riduculous.

I think they're using an excuse to kick her out, and without having any idea, I'm wondering if she's a less-well-off member, one that they think they can do without. Make her leave in shame, without even telling her why, that it was really about money.

Churches in general are famous for doing those sort of things, greed and churches go together.

Way I see it, they're either greedy or just plain jerks. Either way, she ought to leave no matter what they do. They seek to break up families, and THAT'S about as unhealthy as it comes. If she can't see that, she needs another type of enlightment altogether. The "Golden Rule" kind.

[KyndCulture]

34. WHOA!!!!!!!!! that's a GREAT point.

She is VERY poor. She only makes about 9.00 an hour and doesn't give much money to the church, she has a small tithe that she makes.


I never even thought of this.... I'm calling the fam right now to see what they think.

Big AH HA moment. Thank you.

[whatever4]

87. Oh, you're welcome, so happy if that helped

You know, I hate it when a religious institution cuts people down, makes them feel low, you know?

Tell you a story, one women I worked with, not very closely but we were both smokers so I ran into her a lot, she fell in her church parking lot one winter. They didn't scrape the ice. Turns out, if a business does nothing to the ice, it leaves them less libel if someone gets hurt in their parking lots, streets, side walks, etc. It's still an "act of god" thing, for which no one is responsible.

She fell, and not only did they not offer to do anything, but she practically had to beg them to get her to a hospital. She hit her face, and after weeks still had numbness and pain. They were absoultely horrible about it, and as I recall, she was a really nice lady, not mean to anyone. The church, her church, didn't offer to help or do anything at all. She was left wondering why, they seemed so much more interested in the money, and getting sued, than even trying to be fair to her. She was treated that way by most of the people there, as if she was "in the wrong", when not only had she not done anything, but further, was hurt and hurting. Not a particularly wealthy person, in her late 50's, working full time.

I felt so badly for her. I told her, well, I'm not a Christian, but there's this one line, from a song, I forget the name, but it goes like "The lord uses the good ones
And the bad ones use the lord..."

And she got a whole different perspective on it, after we talked about it for a while, I think. I told her, just whisper the word sue, and see if they don't start offering something. What jerks, trying to make HER feel bad, when she was already hurt and feeling bad, you know? I could only hope I helped.

[Silverhair]

69. About that "brother's keeper."

That was a sarcastic response that Cain gave to God when God asked him where Able was.

Cain has just murdered Able. God was confronting him. Cain sarcastically said, (In modern idiom.) "Don't ask me. Do I look like his babysitter?"

Not a good verse to base your argument on.

[KyndCulture]

74. Yeah I got that...

I'm more going on the she's dirt poor and not worth the trouble to them premise.

[rockymountaindem]

79. "I am not my brother's keeper"

I wouldn't use that one. I believe that's the conclusion that Cain came to right before he killed his brother Abel. Seriously.

[whatever4]

88. See? I'm really not Christian, can't even fake it :) Thanks 4 helping nm

[elehhhhna]

100. My first thought, exactly! Y'all should call & ask if you tithe but

can't attend, would it be okay for Mom to stay? I'd LOVE to hear the answer the THAT question.

[donco6]

104. Actually, the passage you're talking about CONDEMNS

the idea that we are not our brothers' keeper. Here's the passage:

Genesis 4
Cain and Abel

1Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

2Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And (A)Abel was (B)a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.

4(C)Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions And (D)the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;

5but (E)for Cain and for his offering He had no regard So (F)Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.

6Then the LORD said to Cain, "(G)Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

7"(H)If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? (I)And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, (J)but you must master it."

8Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and (K)killed him.

9Then the LORD said to Cain, "(L)Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

10He said, "What have you done? (M)The voice of your brother's blood is crying to Me from the ground.

11"Now (N)you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.

Otherwise, I think you're right. They're just wanting to kick her out because of her kids.

[jokerman93]

16. it's a cult not a church

It might help to do a google search on christian cult recovery or just cult recovery. There's plenty of helpful advice available. She is experiencing what is to her a profound betrayal and possibly shame too. She'll get through it though, if she has support from loved ones.

[Demoiselle]

18. Can y'all just put your arms around her and tell her you love her?

I know I may sound like a loonytune...but just reading your post makes me feel very sorry for her. The church types have taken advantage of her sad vulnerability. Can you guys work out some sort of loving intervention? (Take her to a pretty place or just keep her with you for the weekend, long walks, lots of talk (patient, patient). Let her rant if she must, but keep coming back to the fact that you love and care about her. I believe that predator "churches" are very good at zeroing in on the needy. Remember the cult "rescues" that were all the rage a few years back? I think you need to perform a rescue here.

[Sweet Freedom]

20. Aren't we all sinners?

And aren't we all God's children? Geez, you have my sympathy. And so does she really. How horrible to outcast from a "family" she loves.

Interesting that they aren't concerned with her divorce...

(If I were her, I'd start doing a little investigating of my own and see who else in the church had sinning children. What do you want to bet they all do?)

[SemperEadem]

78. divorce is allowed

if one of the partner is a believer and the other isn't and isn't interested in becoming a believer--it's called being unequally yoked. If the non believer subsequently leaves and divorces, the believing partner is free to remarry.

The problem is when the believer is the one who initiated the divorce for reasons other than the partner not being a believer and then wants to remarry.

I've seen this go down for a lot of couples in my mother's church--my brother's first wife chose not to believe and left the marriage (and turned into a psycho from hell)... she divorced him and he was free to remarry, which he did.

[Sweet Freedom]

92. Interesting...

I didn't know that.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

21. Help her find a new church.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. It's not a church. Get her out of the cult.

[OnionPatch]

112. Yes! A new church is what she needs

Surely even she can see how unfair and ridiculous this is. These people are like her family? :wtf: Her real family hasn't disowned her, even though they disagree with her politically, why would she want to stick around these people?

My suggestion is this: Find a UNITY church. It's a Christian church that usually leans a little to the left. IMO, it's my first choice for people fed up with the current fundie nonsense. Unity is fairly conventional but open-minded.
http://www.unity.org/

[ret5hd]

22. my take on this:

i'd bet (without knowing her, or you) is she is lying...trying to manipulate you into doing what she wants...she's running out of options...she's tried for 7 yrs to try to get you to reform your ways...etc etc etc.

no church, not even a cult, is going to throw out a "dues paying member" because of the actions of others. they might (in the case of a cult) demand that the "dues paying member" cut off all contact with the offending family.

on the other hand, maybe she is as annoying to THEM as she is to YOU, and they were looking for an excuse to rid themselves of her.

[leftofthedial]

23. religious insanity is getting worse and worse

we need to get fundies out of the gene pool

then we need to work on fixing whatever the primate wiring is that allows that kind of idiocy.

[MADem]

24. Could it be that she hasn't been tithing????

Or tithing sufficiently for those fucks to ignore her 'guilt' by association????

Why do I suspect that she could have four sons who were a touring Village People homage group, a couple of daughters who were prostitute/murderers in jail and a part time job as a stripper, and they would have no problem with it so long as her tithes were the grandest of the lot?

She needs professional help, I think. Put her on to some, if you can. Other than that, there is not much you can or should do. She is an adult, and changing to suit her prejudices is not an option for you. Beyond "Here's a phone number to a shrink, and oh, real friends don't do that sort of shit," there is really nothing you can do or say.

[rbajai]

25. Lunacy is correct in this case.

Assembly of God can be unbiblical in its practices. Tell me where in the Bible it says for a church to abandon any member whose OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS are engaging in so-called sins. It is crazy, and only serves to drive a wedge between many people, create ill will, and most certainly discourage people from hearing "the Word."

The funny thing is that fundies quote scripture that says something like "we are all sinners saved by Jesus." So if that's the case, they'd have to throw THEMSELVES out of their church!!

[SemperEadem]

82. however

their qualifier is the 'saved by Jesus' part of that, so they don't view themselves as being in the same pile as sinners.

[murielm99]

26. Make sure she is not doing this to manipulate you.

Question her closely. Maybe she misunderstood or exaggerated something they said.

Benny Hinn and Jimmy Swaggart are members of that church...and liars, adulterers and thieves as well. Is it okay for those two, because they are saved?

Ask her why she would want to belong to a church that judges her family, and pressures her about that family. What does her family have to do with her individual salvation?

She needs to find another fundie church that leaves her family out of it.

If none of that works, back off, and refuse to discuss religion with her any more. I have fundie parents. And though I am a Christian, I have made it very clear that I will not discuss religion with them at all.

[charlie]

37. Worse than adulterers

If Swaggart's "date" is to be believed, he enjoys pedophile fantasies.

[liberal N proud]

27. I grew up in a predominantly Baptist community - nothing new here

I remember a girl who got pregnant after she graduated High School but out of wedlock.
They were going to through the family out of the church until she got up and apologized to the whole group.

BTW: She left the church after that and eventually married a Catholic which really set the fundies on their ear. This was in the late 70's

[seabeyond]

28. any thoughts on this batshit lunacy? ..... wow,...is my thought, lol

yuor mom could be using htis to get you to do. or the church could have said this. regardless, it isnt your crap, so really there is not a thing you all can do about it. you cannot go be saved, because in your heart you know this isnt chrsts words, but the hypocrisy of man. if you were to go thru with it for your moms sake, then, you would be that sinner. so

mom is going to have to deal with this the best she can, and yawl will continue to love her and be there for her

[Skidmore]

30. Having been raised in the AofG, I must say that this is rather

extreme for even that denomination. I walked out when I turned 18 and never looked back. I do recall being taught that the only sins you are responsible for are your own. Also, I was taught that what sets us aside from the rest of the animal kingdom is our free will, which man acquired after consuming the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Likewise, "salvation" is a choice for the individual to make, not the church to make for someone. You may want to mention something along those lines to her. This is not consistent with the teachings of the church as I had known them, and even my own aunt (still a member will tell you that something like this "is not of God"). I don't go all rational or ballistic when dealing with my aunt because I recognize that she has a good number of years on me and is more stubborn. I just try to point out what is inconsistent within frame of reference. She usually responds and does so because she knows that anything we have to say to each other is done in a loving way. It is important that your boyfriend's mom not lose her children, regardless of her beliefs. Allowing that bunch to isolate her from her family is consistent with cult indoctrination.

I hope this is helpful in some way.

[bobbieinok]

80. never a member, but arnd many...this does not sound typical

from what I've heard, they do tend to put pressure on people

SoBapt would pray for her and family...and make her very aware they were doing this...

but I've never heard in either denomination of a member being kicked out b/c of what someone in the family did

---it used to be true that each SoBapt congregation was really a law unto itself; it could pretty well do whatever its members agreed to.....there was no controlling superior group.......this has probably changed since the RW took over the denomination in the 70s-80s and created such things as oaths of allegiance, etc.....stuff that made JCarter publically leave the denomination in 2000

BTW, Bill Moyers studied at a SoBaptist seminary and is, I believe, an ordained SoBaptist minister

[ozarkvet]

116. Similar experience

I have some considerable experience with AoG and Pentacostals (sp?) in general, as well.

This strikes me as rather odd. They certainly do not care for homosexuality (or any sex outside of a male-female marriage, for that matter). But their preaching is all about PERSONAL responsibility and PERSONAL actions --- and kicking a parent out because of the actions of an adult children goes direclty into the face of this.

Hence, there is something amiss here, as this flows directly counter to their teachings.

That said, they are a pretty loose-knit group, so it is hard to make generalities, as each church is more-or-less a stand alone entity, and there is considerable distinction between the beliefs and actions of each church.. This one might be (more) kooky than the average AoG.

[pelagius]

121. That is my experience with the A/G, also...

This seems like a very extreme out-of-the-norm action.

Not that I have much good to say about that denomination in general, but this sounds wacko even for them.

I walked out when I was 18 myself, along with about 90% of my peers! I know very few that have gone back.

[Snotcicles]

31. Take her for a visit to a similar but not so radical church. n/t

[crispini]

32. That is so sad.

You have to realize where she's coming from: The very basic, deep-rooted need to be a part of a community, to feel connected to something larger than yourself, to be a part of the whole. The fact that her chosen community has ostracized her is unbelievebly traumatic and painful for her.

That said, it sounds like her chosen community is pretty much a bunch of assholes. Any congregation that would throw a member out because of their family members' belief is completely batshit, and not Christian.

Another poster referred to this as a "cult" and IMO they're not far off base. I think your partner and his sister could themselves use some counseling to get their heads around how to deal with this. Specifically as it pertains to cultlike religions, but also how her depression affects them. Unfortunately a family member that is so dysfunctional is going to take some toll on the others in the family.

[Ilsa]

33. Tell her leaving is a blessing in disguise. She needs to be reminded

(and she should mention it to them) that their families aren't perfect either. Christ Jesus himself told the Pharisees and Scribes "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." ("her" = the adulterous woman) John Ch. 8

If they keep this up, they won't have many members left. They will eventually desert God if they think they are so perfect that they don't need forgiveness any more.

I'm sorry for your troubles. Try and maintain the family relationship if she is a loving person.

[TWiley]

39. You cannot reason with those who hear voices, and

talk to imaginary friends. Mom's lousy choice of friends should not translate into a crisis for everyone else in the family.

If it were me, I would not budge. The emotional blackmail that christians pass out is unbelievable at times. They are one sick group of people.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

40. Just an idea...

Once you eliminate the possibility that she's making all this up, maybe you could ask some church-going acquaintance to invite her along? If "mom" likes it, she's happy, she's off your back, and the acquintance may get a free toaster.

[dogday]

41. Why did the church allow this to go for so long

and then suddenly demand that all of you be saved?

None the less, your Mother's choice is not yours, we all have to deal with our parents from time to time and this is your time to deal with your Mother. You are not choosing her path, you are choosing your own and you love your Mother, but your path is yours, not hers and as much as it pains you to upset her, you must live your own life....

[porphyrian]

42. Secular therapy and better medication.

Probably a little cult debriefing as well.

[Ladyhawk]

43. God dammit! Just when I think fundies couldn't sink any lower,

they go and prove me wrong.

KyndCulture, I was raised by fundies and have had a lot of experience with the "Assembly of God" types. My social studies teacher (at a fundy school) went to a church that was very similar to the Assembly of God and he was batshit crazy. He thought Jiminy Cricket from the Disney film Pinocchio was satanic because he sang "When You Wish upon a Star." My social studies teacher said Jiminy was alluding to astrology, which is satanic. Alrighty then.

When I got to college, the friends I had grown up with in fundy school abandoned me because I wasn't being a good enough Christian in their eyes. My crime? I was depressed. Christians don't get depressed, so obviously my "walk with Christ" was not right. These friends even tried to cast a demon out of me. Yeah, that works great for depression. :sarcasm:

Your boyfriend's mother is in deep trouble, KyndCulture. I've never completely recovered from the betrayal I endured and it sounds like Mom is headed down the same path. My friends' betrayal is one of the things that led to my questioning the entire religion, but it was a long, painful process and I had to go it all alone. At this point in her life, I doubt Mom will be able to question the religious construct, but if she does, her entire world view may crumble and that will leave her feeling very lost.

At this point she is thinking, "Either God is wrong or I'm wrong." Of course, in order to keep her faith, she'll have to assume she's wrong, which will cause her to sink further into depression.

There is a third option that works for some fundies being betrayed by other fundies, and yes, fundies betray each other all the time. Because of their belief in original sin, fundies can never feel godly enough, so they either feel inadequate or project that inadequacy on others to make themselves feel better.

The third option for Mom is to blame the church and the people in it for not being godly enough. At this point in her life if Mom loses her religion, her whole world view, it could have disastrous results, so finding another church would probably be the best option for her. If you can find a liberal church in the area (a liberal Episcopalian or Lutheran church might do), perhaps you could encourage her to attend it, or perhaps call the priest / pastor and have him talk with her.

If the Ass of God church follows through, Mom is in big emotional trouble.

Good luck.

Edited for typos, etc.

[KyndCulture]

55. Ladyhawke, this is what I wanted to know.. what you posted.

I was raised catholic, and besides a metric asston of guilt, there was nothing but love taught to us. A far cry from the church my boyfriend and his sister were raised it.

Mom's been like this for 30 years, these kinds of churches, these kinds of friends. The betrayal she feels is very real to her. That's what makes me so damn mad. Logically I know this is all kinda fucked up, but we don't hate her because she's made bad choices. She's still mom, and we don't like to see her in pain.

She didn't go to to church yesterday, and pretty much unless the world tilted on its axis and she couldn't drive, she'd be in church on Sunday... so something is definitely going on.

We have no influence over her and her religious preferences, but when she reaches out like she did on Saturday, there is usually some huge nervous breakdown about to happen.

I'm pretty sheltered from fundies by choice, and I guess i just wanted to know if doing this kinda shit was really possible. it seems so out there on the permimeter of reality to me... But reading all these replies I'm gonna guess it's nothing new for these hypocrites.

Her crisis is within her self and the betrayal of people she trusted. It's deeper than just her church being a bunch of asshats. She probably is having a crisis of faith, and knowing her, she will blame herself to the point where she can't function.

We'll do what we can for her, but she's gonna have to help herself too. The one thing we want to avoid is a big blowout of religion. That will not help and really it's not what this is about. It's about her feeling betrayed.

I really do feel sorry for her.

[zalinda]

45. If you know of a nice liberal church

get in touch with the pastor. Ask him/her to pay a visit to your mom, to ask her to join their church. People who are that attached to their church sometimes just need to be asked to join another community. Since a preacher would be a person of importance, your mom may look at this as being very special to have a person of such standing offering an invitation to join, and accept the offer. Could solve 2 problems at once.

zalinda

[Imagine My Surprise]

46. An ex-fundie preacher turned big ole queer responds...

Wow! is my first response. But not why you may think.

This is scary because this is highly unusual even among fundies.

Unless there's crap going on in fundie circles which I'm unaware of (which I'm sure CAN be the case), this is a very unusual thing.

While most fundies certainly wouldn't condone the so-called sin you and your bf are living in, nor would they usually kick out a member whose kids are living in "sin", either.

Assembly of God churches(I was a pentecostal preacher myself once)are autonomous and can certainly kick out a member over bad breath, I suppose. But I was of the impression that there were certain guidelines for excommunication, and having children "that sin" isn't one of them.

I do believe this is an extreme, unusual case even though it comes from a very, very scary right-wing group. In other words, those people are scary even on a GOOD day, but this takes it a whole new level.

There's always the snowball's chance in hell that this could serve as a wake-up call to your mother. If it boils down to a matter of "love" -- she may realize that these people are utterly loveless.

[KyndCulture]

64. They are a hate group and extremely right wing.

They have a "daily prayer circle" in the morning for Bush... does that tell you anything? That the members cart their asses down there every morning to pray for the pResident?

The anti-gay hate seeps from the walls in that place. There are posters with hate speech in the vestabule and entry way.

I know they are the dangerous kind of fundies, not the love they neighbor kind.

That's why I posted this story. Just to see if this kind of fringe lunacy is out there in other parts of the country.

This is North Dakota btw.

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. She needs a new church. a REAL one, not a cult

[Coyote_Bandit]

48. Point her

to this website:

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a04.html

Better yet, buy her the book the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.

It is written buy Christians for Christians and will expose her former church and its pastor as the abusers that they are.

[madrchsod]

49. my thoughts?

find a church that includes her and her children. they are out there- seek and you may find. i will agree with others-these people are cultists not christians. hell christ befriended a whore....

[KyndCulture]

50. Everyone, thank you so much! I just LOVE DU!

I appreciate everything that has been said and I'd pretty much thought much of the same. It's a small family, and she's been a spot of much drama in the past. We aren't even gonna TALK about the election last year.

As to the AOG thing, this is what I would call an extreme "sect" of AOG. They don't affiliate themselves with any other organization. I know they are a cult. We've traveled that road with her many times. She hears none of it.

She wants desperately to belong, that's what this goes back to everytime there is some upheaval with her. We've tried and failed to steer her to something more "mainstream" in the way of religion.

She's not completely innocent of manipulation, just in this particular case, she's not completely making it up.

I'd venture to guess, her lack of money to support their cult is failing to meet the criteria and it's nothing more than that.

Sick fuckers! I'd like to go down there myself and give this socalled pastor a LARGE piece of my mind about Christian love, compassion and tolerance - but I'll hold off until such time as mom has pulled her self together enough to handle us doing that. This time, i don't think we're gonna leave it alone though.

[mandyky]

60. Does the Assembly of God have a HQs?

Call and ask if this is a common practice.

[Imagine My Surprise]

61. Yes, in Springfield, MO..

and I would just bet that their main organization would not condone this.

[KyndCulture]

63. Good place to start with a letter! for sure. !

because if I take my less than happy ass down to that church to speak with them, I'll probably end up in the pokey for putting my hands on that guys throat.

[JanMichael]

81. Well.....I wouldn't bet on that. This is Stephanie, not Michael

Let me name two famous members of that church: John Ashcroft, and Jim Baker (PTL fame, who was put in prison years ago.

I have a special fondness for that church because I worked in the building right behind them in Springfield, AND grew up in Charlotte, NC...home of the Pass the Loot Club...(PTL)

I am in school now to be an ordained minister. Someone needs to talk to Mom about God, love, Jesus (use words funamentalists understand) and help her get to another church with a better community. I am an Episcopalian, but that can be kinda Catholic-y to some...might be better of trying either an Unitarian, or a Liberal Baptist.

Good luck with that,

Steph

[dogday]

135. My Grandmother was a member of

Calvary Assembly of God in Orlando. Huge church. She tithed to her church 95.00 a month even though she was on a fixed income. When she needed help, the church did nothing, sent no one over to see her. When she died the church did nothing for her, did not even remember her. I must say that this particular church is a farce. She tithed for over 15 years to that church and in return they did not even visit her in her own home....

[iconoclastic cat]

51. Personally, I'd get her to a UCC church ASAP, just to calm her down.

If I offend anyone with my ignorance here, I apologize, but that's what I would do. Sort of like nicotine replacement therapy.

[Solly Mack]

52. Well, first thing...((hugs)) to all involved (not the church, of course)

Mom is going to go through the process of grief.(she's been betrayed, blamed for it, had her children blamed for it, and has been banished from what she views as "family" - this is a loss for her) This will be compounded by her depression.

Maybe a needed loss - but she will still feel those emotions associated with loss - the betrayal will also compound the problem. She'll experience both the rational and irrational (rational- "How can my church family betray me? & -irrational - "Have my children betrayed me?" - the church blamed the children after all and she values the church)


The 4 of you can be there - but only to lend support as a family, you can't make this right for her. The church is using emotional extortion against the mother - there is no making that right. The mother has to be able to see that herself. She has to see the church for what it really is - a negative force.

She probably doesn't accept it yet, but there's nothing wrong with her and there's nothing wrong with her children - it's the church that's the problem. Will she consider counseling? To help her through the stages of her grief (and suppressed anger)...and to have someone that's not close to the situation guide her through this time?

Wishing the best for you all!

[ms liberty]

53. Here's my 2 cents...

I've read the other posts, so I know you have seen the info and believe her, I won't go there.

Does she have any friends, co-workers, other relatives she is close to and might listen to who are NOT members of this wacko group? If so, try to enlist them to help her with this. She needs someone who can come in and help her "replace" (so to speak) the BAD xians with a group of GOOD xians. You need someone she likes, who can say "Come to church with me this Sunday" and she would go with them. If she's a true believer she is devastated, and probably feels like she's going to hell, a very real place for people like her who have a need for that type of patriarchal dogma. My personal theory is people like her are just less evolved souls. She needs that structure, and if it can be replaced with a less malignant version, it's a good thing.
For you though, and your families, you have to remember it is not your fault, and don't allow her make YOU miserable over it. This is her crisis, and her religion causing it.

I understand what you're going through, and I sympathize with you, I've got a fundie story of my own. I haven't told anyone here about it yet, either, it's still an unresolved issue. There's a fundie group trying to take over my church, where I was married, my husband grew up in, where we'll be buried someday next to his great grandparents, and their parents, etc. etc.. My little country church, out in the middle of nowhere.

[Horse with no Name]

57. Amazing story.

It's emotional blackmail that is probably tied to the amount she tithes.
The church may just be cleansing itself of anyone who may in the future need some financial assistance with the state of the economy.
Perhaps they have made the decision to cater to the wealthy...and the wealthy in this country do not rub elbows with the poor, not even in church.
I hope she understands the dynamics, but I fear she won't. I fear she will unfairly hold her son and her daughter responsible for her being cast out of her church.
There is a loving God that does live in other churches.
Perhaps she should seek out that God.
Good luck to you.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

58. Have her son and daughter tell her that

people who love you don't abandon you. Help her to find another church in the community that will offer her the friendship and fellowship that she desires. If she is looking to follow God, she is more likely to find Him in a church filled with kindness.

[mandyky]

59. Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time

Make parents disown "sinful" children or "drum them out" as it is called.

[KyndCulture]

62. Yes, that's what I was wondering...

if other so called churches, have ever practiced such a thing. One of the other ladies told her, maybe you need to "cut off contact" with your children... which I'm fairly certain is what got her so hysterical. Her kids and my boyfriends kids (her grandbabies) are extremely important to her, so the thought of cutting all of us off for her church probably sent her off into hyteria land.

[sakabatou]

65. More lunacy from the fundie churches across the globe

[Silverhair]

66. That is extremely abnormal for an A of G church to do that.

That is something that the local pastor is going out on a limb over. I was born into, raised in, and currently a very active member of my A of G church. I have never seen anyone kicked out because of the way their adult children were behaving. Usually we will pray with the parent that the children return to the Lord. It is a part of the doctrine that each person is responsible for themselves.

She should check with the district. This pastor may need to explain himself to them.

I am assuming that you have told us everything that bears on the situation. Other facts could change things radically.

[Fuzz]

67. My father is an Assemblies of God minister

I've shared this here before, but he went to the bible school in Missouri run by Ashcroft's father. Ashcroft, the former AG, went to my father's church in New Haven CT when he attended law school. My father was an associate pastor at the time there, I believe. (all before I was born). Family pictures and slides show him at my father's apartment on Sundays after church playing the piano, etc and Christmas cards from the family.

I grew up in that church, several of them, in the Northeast, south and midwest. Been there and done that. So, I know that church well. All too well.

Now that I've established my Assemblies of God cred, lol, here's the situation.

It has gotten bad in many of the churches lately. My father has even found it difficult. He has said on many occasions, to either me or my wife, that he has had to hold his tongue on several occasions for fear of being ostracized from his own congregation. For example, his recent change from republican to independent.

To give you a little more perspective, he was 9 at the end of WWII and in Germany, understands what fervent nationalism and xenophobia can cause. He also does not support government money going to religious charities.

But unfortunately, he is in the minority there. When I visited him over the Memorial Day weekend we talked a bit about how christians like him, especially those with influence, need to speak up and not be afraid of doing so because the loud mouths out there now as the face of christianity are not advocating the type of christianity that my father loves and is living.

I guess you would need to find her someone like my father for her to talk with, someone who has the same belief system, but not this stupid judgmental idiocy. I'm an atheist and my father still loves me and we talk all the damn time.

These people are not following the teachings of the church anyway and perhaps you need to contact their district head or something to check on their charter. The Assemblies of God church is a pretty loosely supervised denomination, so I'm not sure anything would come of it, but it may be a start.

[KyndCulture]

70. A bit upthread I posted that...

they are so into politics at this church that they hold a daily prayer vigil for Bush...

So what you are saying about blind xenophobia and misguided patriotism is very applicable. They have antigay posters in the church as well.

I am sure they are an extremist right wing sect of what is probably a very christian church in some places.

We tend to not get into religion when we speak with her. The only thing that I can even fathom that she's done was her divorce, but that was years ago and her husband left her and divorced her and as I understand it they don't hold that against her.

Now, I will say that the 4 of us have had our faces on TV more than once protesting Bush and the war and it's highly likely this has become an embarrasment. As if I would feel anything but wholehearted PRIDE in that!

If the church is loosely organized, and as I see it, they loosely affiliate themselves with it, I'd say these "elders" are doing this all on their own and it's in no way sanctioned.

[Fuzz]

83. Yeah, It's not sanctioned, but I also don't think it's frowned on either

to be quite honest with you. The church structure has a plausible deniability thing going with the way they structure it, but they have gotten rid of folks or congregations if the heat got too much like Swaggert. Also they were thinking about ordaining that Benny Hinn creep, but people spoke up and wrote letters to the national council to stop that, my father being one. So they will listen.

If the church does lose its' charter or something like that, perhaps this woman would not be so upset over what these 'people' have to say about her.

[Sub Atomic]

68. I'm going to get flamed for this

but screw her.

Maybe she'll be able to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that there is absolutely nothing Christian about her church.

It's too bad they're eating their own, but you know, I for one could care less.

You made your bed. You've lied with dogs. Now you've got fleas and are kicked out of the doghouse.

Go cry me a river.

[marions ghost]

93. too harsh

the OP is asking for help in dealing with the Mom as positively as possible it seems to me. The family is not ready to abandon her. The mother needs to be gently steered to another church so she can see the difference. People who are fall prey to invasive fundy churches are not likely to suddenly "wake up and smell the coffee."

This indicates a tendency to be uncertain about boundaries and to put too much trust in people who don't deserve it. After a betrayal such as this, the mother would more likely sink into confusion and despair. The children can at least try to show her what real love and forgiveness is. If she's too far gone for that, well at least they tried. But we all make mistakes.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

117. Harshly written, but I must agree with part of it,

namely that her church DEFINITELY isn't so Christian.

[jzodda]

118. Damn you are Harsh

What terrible things you said. You sound like the people on the Freeper boards. They post like this all the time. How about a little compassion for a woman who is obviously lost.

[Lexingtonian]

71. I would guess

from my own experiences with such groups that she got thrown overboard.

The context might be something like this: your mom came to attention of the church leadership because she was emotionally high maintenance and 'disruptive'; maybe she obsessed rather too much in public about you, her Unbeliever children. So they had a look at her and figured out she was largely the kind of person who joins a church as a relatively cheap form of psychotherapy and indulging in relationship dependence. Then they looked at her tithing and found it wasn't, well, worth it from their perspective.

Despite all the public front otherwise, these folks are thorough manipulative and petty. So they came up with solving their problem by telling you mother to solve her problem (i.e. settling with you) or be identified as the problem (i.e. get kicked out until she shapes up, which they assuredly consider unlikely).

At bottom, all the 'thinking' revolves around the idea that people who fail to exert the Power Of The Faith and people who are resistant to their belief system are possessed by, well, demons. It's annoyingly trivial and painfully stupid.

[ieoeja]

72. Sounds like my brother-in-law's mother.

Her Assembly of God church has tried this sort of emotional blackmail on my brother-in-law's family. His mother buys it 100%. The kids used to get worked up about it. But after the dozenth time or so they learned to tell mom to just "shut up".

[Javaman]

77. This is the fundies new tactic, guild by association...

and guilty of suspicion. This was a clever tactic employed by the nazi's.

This is how the nazi's ferreted out various "non-believers". They would have the hitler youth rat out their parents for being un-German or not supporting hitler.

This also was a popular theme in the book 1984.

stranger than fiction folks. expect more of this.

[shadowknows69]

84. I believe it

an Assemblies of God is the reason I walked away from Christianity for them pulling similar shit.

[IdaBriggs]

85. There are some wonderful books out there about

"when God becomes a drug" and other forms of "spiritual abuse."

Sorry she's depressed, but it sounds like "God" talked to "someone" at her "church", and she's been accused of bringing her demons to church, etc., so they have to save themselves. Frankly, it sounds like a fabulous thing to have happened -- although temporarily painful, she will survive it, and the entire family will be better off for it.

This is going to be a real test of faith for her: does she love God, or her Church more? Does she really believe in a God that would tell her to NOT have a relationship with her children? And if so, then I totally understand why her children are atheists -- worshiping such a cruel god who requires human sacrifice (and I'm not talking about "give more to others") sounds ... disgusting. (shudder)

What a blessing they have finally revealed themselves to her in their filth and fury! Sounds like some prayers have been answered, eh? Good luck to all, and may eyes continue to be opened! :)

[doni_georgia]

86. Completely goes against AOG doctrine

I have never heard of ANY church kicking members out for having relatives who aren't "saved." AOG is big for prayer meetings and prayer lists for unsaved relatives. I should know - I have been on the list of my cousin's AOG church for years LOL. AOG believes that Christians can backslide into sin, and they have altar calls for the backslidden WITHIN their church - so this situation is ridiculous.

[Fox Mulder]

90. According to the bible, we're all sinners...

so, in that church's "logic", there should be no one at that church, then, right?

Screw that church. Mom deserves to go somewhere else where's she's loved and welcome.

[jackster]

91. My heart goes out to all of you....

Having spent years in a controlling, cultish pentecostal church I understand a little of what your family member is feeling.

One of the resources I used to help me complete a break with this church and its beliefs is found at this website

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/

I must warn you, however, when I recently visited the site, I noticed what might be some homophobia. I haven't been back. And I can't check it now, just be careful.

Peace to you all

[melody]

94. Typical fundie crap

I grew up around these nutjobs. The really whacky ones get off on this "family shame" crap. Your partner's mother will likely be "shunned", which means none of them will talk to her.

This isn't your problem - it's hers, but you know that already.

Have you thought about urging her toward Church of God or Unitarians or some other "Christians with Grey Matter" congregation?

[ChiciB1]

95. Hey, If She Can't See Through The Haze,,,,

Tell her to get counseling. I'm sorry if that sounds crass, but she's dealing with some very delusional people! They all need some help if they can't stand ANY type of dissention.

They obviously haven't read The Constitution!!! Hey, it's perfectly legal, at this moment in HISTORY to have different VIEWS!!

You need to get this message to MSM!! That will give us MORE FUEL against THE FUNDIES!!

Anyone know how to do it????

[MsTryska]

96. How about Publicly shaming the Church?

I would write a letter to the editor of your local paper, naming the church, describing their cult-like unchristian behavior, and bing so callous as to throw a woman out of the house of God, because her grownup children do not ascribe to the same beliefs.


Air all the dirty laundry you have on them.


And then tell Mama that you're sorry the Church feels they can make her choose between God and her loved ones, especially when her loved ones wouldn't put her in such a position.


Suggest, she choose God, except one-on-one this time.

[youthere]

97. All you can do is plant the seed of doubt in her mind...

With a simple statement like "Wow, how awful...and you trusted them so much."
That's all it takes. Let her ruminate on that. Don't talk about how bad the church is or call it a cult. Let her come to that discovery on her own. If you attack her church she will step up and defend it. If you apologize for "living in sin" or tell her to STFU YOU become the lightening rod for her betrayal. Just plant a little seed and she'll come to it all on her own.

[Norquist Nemesis]

102. Not true! There IS something they can do!!!

What Mom is experiencing is recrimination from cult behavior. There is documentation about cult behaviors and how to handle it. There are support groups out there that can help.

Kynd, please contact someone who is experienced with dealing in religious cults. There are things you can do.

You also need to expose this as much as possible. Start with a letter to the editor. See if you can find others who have been shunned, too. When the group gets to this level, there are no longer with them that are out there but remaining quiet because they think they are alone. Both your MIL and these people need to know they are not alone.

This will all work out, but the sooner you take action, the better for your family AND your community.

[TK421]

101. This batshit lunacy is the very reason why I detest organized religion

period

[blogslut]

103. I'm a practicing agnostic

but our family went to a Methodist Church when I was young. As I recall, they're a lot nicer and more forgiving than most denominations.

[Contrary1]

105. How sad...

that she allows herself to be manipulated in this manner.

Some months ago my husband and I sat next to an elderly gentleman at a restaurant. The conversation eventually led to politics and religion. He told us he was quite outspoken at his Catholic church regarding abortion. He believed it was an individual's personal choice, and that both churches and the government should keep out of it.

Many members of the congregation, and even the pastor had tried to changed his views. When I asked whether or not he was worried about excommunication, since church laws were clear on this issue, he smiled and said, "I donate too much money to be thrown out, and they know it, but it won't bother me if they do". I was in the presence of an 82 year old liberal.

I'm betting that if your mother-in-law donated a ton of money, they would be happy to overlook her children's "sins". If it really means that much to her, mention it as an option.

[donco6]

106. Ain't Christianity Great!? Here's another passage -

that defends punishing children for the sins of their fathers:

2"No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 23:2

[ozarkvet]

119. Superceded

Under new contract now would be the response.

[donco6]

123. Interesting. So when Jesus said,

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18.)

I guess he was just fibbing? Sounds like the old contract is still in effect, unless heaven and earth passed away while I wasn't looking.

[ozarkvet]

124. No scholar here

But I understand that quote in context to mean that the old contract still applied for those who lived under the law, and the new contract applied for those who would follow him.

Of course, all the bits about temple sacrifice were no longer necessary, as the "pefect sacrifice" was accomplished at Crucifiction.

But again, I never did pay much attention in school.

I was a bad kid.

[donco6]

132. Ha! I think I was the only one

in Catholic school who got an "F" in religion!

Not because I didn't know it, but because I was always arguing!

[derby378]

107. Hasn't another church done this a week or two ago?

Can't read the entire thread - I'm at work, and it's been hectic. But it seems that a church somewhere in Maryland, Virginia, or the Carolinas did the same thing last week, expelling a member because at least one of her children was gay.

If you'll remember, earlier this year in April or May (?), East Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina expelled any members who voted Democratic in the 2004 election.

I sense a trend here. I'm sorry you're going through this, but hang in there.

:hug:

[Tsiyu]

109. The best thing you can do with the superstitious is

appeal to the superstition.

If she knows she is a good person, and that Gawd loves her, perhaps Gawd is sending her a message that this church is evil.

Make some phone calls to some other religiously inclined folks you know and try to get someone to call her who can support and console and invite her to attend another church.

You guys can't appeal to her sense of Gawd because you don't buy the bullshit, but it sounds like her minister is manipulating her at her weakest point - her loved ones - and she needs to understand how wrong that is. If she is reasonably intelligent, pass along some literature on cults and how to identify one.


Be kind but firm and I wish you the best. I'd call the pastor, myself, and give the sumbitch a Come To Jesus toungue lashing, but that's just my hot-blooded way of dealing with these situations.

[Dorian Gray]

110. I can't believe that this would happen.

She is better off without that church in her life.

Sadly, there really is nothing you can do for her. It's terrible that the church put that on her. She'll find a better place to go; one that will open its arms to her for who she is rather than for who you are.

[hippiegranny]

111. What would the top tier of the AoG think of this?

Is this doctrine coming from the top? Or is it a rogue unit acting on their own? I know the whole org is pretty fundy cultish, but the highest ups may not appreciate this tactic nor the publicity it could bring.

[Catrina]

114. And what would the IRS think

if their status is non-profit and they're involved in politics! This 'church' needs to be shunned. How about trying to join it and saying you are a Democrat. If they only accept members of a particular political party, then AIRC, they cannot claim non-profit status.

If they were 'shunned' by the government, maybe your MIL would realize they are not a church, but a political group, 'sinning' by cheating the government! How great to see them lose their NP status and have to pay huge fines, which should prove to your MIL that they are crooks, which, imo, they are. Just a thought.

Meantime, good luck to you all, having had family members go through a fundie period, and being convinced that I and my boyfriend were 'going to hell', I know how difficult it is.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

120. I smell a rat. I think your MIL is doing a dirty trick

to get you to go to church. Perhaps aided by church people.

Or perhaps she's telling the truth and the church people are running the scheme without your MIL's knowledge. Anyway, the goal is to drag YOU into church. Don't fall for it. Make it very clear that it is the AoG who are being assholes, not you.

The AoG is evil. There's a banner of them near my house that hardly contains the glee about Katrina and other disasters. You know, "Woo hoo! Disasters! Death and Destruction! Jesus is coming!"

[Joe Chi Minh]

122. Tell her to ask them if they think

their Church is holier and more select than the churches founded by the apostle, Paul.

I believe Paul expressed certain qualities to be looked for in applicants for the diaconate, but I dont recall having grown-up children who shared the same faith as themselves figured among them. So where they derive their membership criteria for the congregation from seems, to say the least, mysterious - though hardly in a godly way

[donheld]

125. She's not all that stable (she takes meds...

If she gets away from these fools, she might be able to kick the meds.

[SocratesInSpirit]

126. They are not real Christians.

A real Christian church would not have done that. It's disgusting. :mad:

[Straight Shooter]

127. "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

"Whatsoever ye do unto the least of these, ye do unto me."

For your boyfriend's mom: :hug:

[LittleClarkie]

128. Is she blaming you guys for the booting, or is she upset with the church?

Seriously sounds like she should find another one, as they are not treating her biblically. The Bible says nothing about a person being responsible for their family, only themselves.

[Ioo]

129. Tell her, No Church w/ a foundation in Christ would ask her to do this.

You should tell her you love her, that any church that would judge a person by the actions of someone else has "Lost it's way" (Say that, that is what they call a strayed church or person)

To refuse prayer, and the confort of Jesus because of the actions of others is the work of the devil...

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Tell her to find a new church, tell her not to put faith in the brick and mordor, but the word.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[cynatnite]

131. All that comes to mind is to find another church...

My RW mother is hooked on her baptist church all the way.

No real christian worth their salt would tell a member they had to leave because of the actions of their kid/kids. It's disgusting.

It sounds to me like there may be no reasoning with your mother over this and she'll have to come to her own decisions which you may not like.

I remember during the Terri Schiavo fiasco one of the judges was asked to leave the church he attended. The 2004 elections also brought a lot of backlash for those who didn't support bush. Not granting of communions for some catholics, IRRC.

Good luck with your mom.

[mandyky]

133. Any follow up on what you decided to do?

Hopefully your mom-out-law is ok (that is how I refer to "partners" relatives - out-laws).

[JNelson6563]

134. Common among JW's too

Parents will disown their kids if they "bring shame on the congregations". It's pretty typical behavior for cultits actually.

Julie