Levees on the Mississippi Delta were built to allow more farming

[MoonRiver]

in the rich riverfront land. This couldn't be done previous to the levee system because of periodic massive flooding. But the levees are ineffective, as evidenced in 1927, 1994 and today. In fact two major consultants for the Army Corp of Engineers, Eads and Humphreys, who were bitter competitors, both thought that levees were the WORST choice. They offered different alternatives. One of these was cutting inlets into various river front areas, which would release and spread out flooding water, reducing the risk of inundating surrounding homes and killing people and animals. But their proposals were rejected because none of the states involved wanted to give up any valuable land. So stupidity and greed triumphed over reason, safety concerns, and common sense. So bad.

[maxsolomon]

1. Capitalism forces your hand

the wise choice often causes short term pain. Our economy will not consider alternate methods of calculating cost & benefit.

[rodeodance]

2. the wtlands which obsorb water during hurricanes has been taken over

by industy, farming and commercial development. same thing happened along Mississippi River floodplains. After the floods of 93 many towns were relocated to restore the floodplains. I suspect the same will happen here.

[gulfcoastliberal]

3. Funny how Egyptians farmed despite annual flooding 3000 years ago

Levees are doomed to fail on many levels.

[MoonRiver]

4. Yes, the cutaways are the answer.

Trouble is the same problem exists today as yesterday. Nobody wants to give up any land, even if it means saving their financial and physical skin. Somebody else is supposed to do it. But that "somebody" has the same mindset. Just amazing.

[wuushew]

5. Here would be an excellent use of eminent domain

n/t

[MoonRiver]

Except what would the government do with a floodplain?

n/t

[FloridaPat]

15. They were doing that until a couple of decades ago.

[gulfcoastliberal]

26. Quite right.

Wonder how the 3 Gorges dam in China will work out? Saw a program about it that said once the silt dumps high enough in the lake it will cause flooding upstream. Supposedly they have a silt sluice but the experts sounded skeptical whether it would be built or effective if it is. The silt is dumped as soon as the river hits still water, so I guess they'd have to dredge it up to the dam face to make it effective?

[tx_dem41]

6. Psst...the Mississippi River levees didn't fail in New Orleans...

not one bit...and never have been naturally breached by a flood. In 2005, 1994, or 1927.

[MoonRiver]

7. In the great 1927 MS flood, NO double crossed St. Bernard's Parish,

by getting them to agree to having their levee deliberately broken to save NO. The deal was that NO would give megabucks reparations to those in SBP who lost their homes from flooding. Well, SURPRISE, that promise was broken. NO survived that flood, but a levee on Lake Pontchartrain sealed it's fate almost 80 years later.

[tx_dem41]

8. Not a natural breach though. In '27 it was breached with dynamite.

John Barry's book is fascinating btw.

[MoonRiver]

9. They all believed a breach was going to happen to NO if SBP wasn't

dynamited. There is a huge risk from levees up and down the MS and on Lake Pontchartrain also. Levees are horrible solutions to flooding. And, yes, that book was awesome. I read it by coincidence a few months before this happened. How timely, huh.

[tx_dem41]

10. I'm from New Orleans. Engineers both public and private have long..

ago determined that in '27 the levees in New Orleans were not in danger of being breached. That's one of the tragedies of the dynamiting.

[MoonRiver]

11. Well, that's what they believed at the time. Nobody knew how much

more it was going to rain, so hindsight is 20/20.

[tx_dem41]

12. But again...the levees held. They have never been breached in

New Orleans.

[MoonRiver]

13. Technically correct. However, levees on other parts of the MS Delta

have been breached. Also, Lake Pontchartrain's levee was breached. I'm mainly complaining about the levee system. I was in St. Louis during the 1994 flooding. I learned a lot about the flawed levee system then. Before that happened I had never even heard the term "levee".

Correction: I had heard the term levee but didn't really know what it was.

[tularetom]

14. Actually while Humphreys privately believed that

the "levee only" policy was the worst possible solution to Mississippi River flooding, he recommended it to the COE because his former great rival, Charles Ellett, opposed it.

In the 1927 flood, the city dads of NO, fearing that the riverside leveees would fail or be topped, dynamited a downstream levee which relieved the pressure on the city levees. It was later discovered that the city levees were in no danger of failure and the bad feeling that resulted between the city and its neighbors persists to this day.

Upstream from NO, in Miss and Ark there were levee patrols posted to prevent the dynamiting of levees on the river to relieve pressure on the other side.

Today, the real danger to NO is that the rivver will change course and flow to the gulf of mexico through the Atchafalaya River channel, leaving the port of NO basically high and dry. Many gazillions of COE dollars have been spent to prevent this eventuality.

There is no doubt anymore that levees on any major river system are a poor means of protection against catastrophic floods but as you state too much has been invested in riverside farm land to give it up easily. Along the Sacramento R in No Cal the Nature Conservancy and other land trusts have been buying up farmland and returning it to overflow areas, an expensive and time consuming process but one that is accomplished primarily with private albeit tax exempted capital.

Having said all this no levee in the world would have protected against a seaside storm surge that flooded coastal areas in LA and MS.

[MoonRiver]

16. Congrats to CA for such a smart move!

Certainly many other factors, including but not limited to monster hurricanes, and land below sea level, influenced the current situation. I'm just focusing on levees.

[tularetom]

19. It was a hard sell for state and local govs

because of the loss of tax revenue (productive acres replaced by fallow land) but some of the overflow lands were opened up for recreational uses (hiking trails, hunting, bird watching etc) and to some extent the local economies derived some benefit from tourist revenues.

[MoonRiver]

20. Well, sometimes it's smarter to think long term.

And that is a trait sorely lacking in this country.

[tularetom]

22. You are correct sir

and I wish there was more long term thinking involved in long term problems like this unfortunately the thinking ahead horizon for most elected officials particularly at the local level in rural areas extends only to the end of their term of office.....

[MoonRiver]

23. And their thinking often only extends to those they "owe".

This isn't unique to our country, but it is sad how the interests of We The People have been corrupted in so many ways by such mentality.

[bobbieinok]

24. in 91 in Germany, question asked at workshop: what is the main problem

German companies have working with US companies??

pretty angry answer: German companies think in the long run, 10-20 years or more; if we're lucky, our US partners plan for as much as ONE year ahead.........it is VERY DIFFICULT to work with US companies

[MoonRiver]

25. Most of the civilized world knew we had to do something about global

warming at least a decade ago. Yet here we are, still twiddling our thumbs. Germany had our number long ago. Sadly.

[skooooo]

17. Some historical perspective....

River, The (Part I) - U.S. Department of Agriculture, Resettlement Administration
Classic documentary history of the exploitation of the resources of the Mississippi River Valley and the work being done to rehabilitate and reclaim the area. Director and writer:
http://www.archive.org/details/RiverThe1937

Part II - http://www.archive.org/details/RiverThe1937_2

[MoonRiver]

18. Looks like an awesome documentary!

Thanks!

[skooooo]

21. yup..

www.archive.org

Check out the Prelinger Archives and the Universal Newsreels as well.