Has anyone mentioned Jesse Jackson an 08 running mate?

[garybeck]

there's lots of posts lately about who should run in 08.

We need someone "in the know" about key issues like election fraud, bush lies, etc... and just as importantly, someone who's willing to talk about it. Loudly.

If we end up with another wishywashy ticket worried about upsetting the "center", and unwilling to fight election fraud, I for one will be discouraged.

I heard Harvey Wasserman talk the other day and he mentioned that Jesse Jackson was AMAZING as everything was unfolding in Ohio last november. Indeed, he was one of the only people who was willing to use his access to the media to talk about the theft of the election, on the record.

We need someone who is fiery, pissed off at what has happened in the last 8 years, and not afraid to speak the truth.

I think a Gore/Jackson ticket would be nice.

[TrueAmerican]

1. That's DOA

No way, no how does Jesse Jackson win on the ticket.

[garybeck]

3. why not? because he had an affair?

just wondering why you think that way.

[SlowDownFast]

33. That's one reason.

And it's enough.

[itzamirakul]

2. As much as I respect the many things Jackson has done and

continues to do as an activist, he can never win.

I tell you what ticket I would love....Aaron Broussard and General Honore

[JohnLocke]

4. Not a chance (nt).

[Spinzonner]

5. You mean Jesse 'Hymietown' Jackson ?

Too many things to live down.

[Tomee450]

20. Isn't it amazing that a decent

black man who tries to improve the lives of all people cannot be forgiven for a remark he made over twenty years ago and for which he has apologized. Pat Buchanan said things some people believe are anti-semitic yet I see Jews sitting across the table talking with him with no evidence of hostility. I don't see anyone constantly remarking about his statement about the Jewish Amen corner in congress or about the book he wrote that would lead one to believe Jews are not his favorite people. But just mention two black men, Jackson and Sharpton and the hatred comes bubbling up. Why the double standard? Black people are constantly told to forget the past but it seems that when blacks are the offenders some people choose never to forget the past. The black offenders are condemned forever.

[SunDrop23]

22. The double standard exists because they are

intelligent men of color who care about the future of our country for ALL of us and they refuse to allow themselves to be put into a stereotypical place.

[Spinzonner]

24. Don't kill the messenger

I'm merely pointing out that he has, in incautious moments, made some political mistakes. I don't know what was or is 'in his heart'. Political mea culpas are always a bit suspect, unfortunately, because there is a self-interested context to them and the purpose is to dispose of it, not make amends.

Would a white politician face the same long memory for having used the N-word ?

[Tomee450]

26. So is he the only public figure to have

been incautious? I think not. It's because he is black that his mistake for which he has apologized many time is constantly being brought up. No one talks about Senator Allen who used to have a noose in his office or Senator Byrd who is revered even after being a member of the klan. It's just a clear double standard.

[Spinzonner]

31. Would using the N-word be considered having been 'incautious' ?

The term 'Hymie' is very offensive to Jews. On the level of 'Kike'. Since I'm not black I can't judge the level of offensiveness versus the N-word but I am Jewish so I do know about the former.

It did reveal that the Rainbow Coalition was not without its own limitations and that Jesse harbored his own moral impurities. That would hardly make him unique among politicians but it was so at odds with the image he tried to cultivate.

That said, it might shock you to know that I still voted for him in the California primary after that.

[Tomee450]

34. Of course Hymie is

offensive and Jackson was wrong to say it. But he has apologized repeatedly for saying it and I would like to know what more you want from him. And I can tell you from personal experience, Jewish people have done some very hurtful things to me and came back to apologize. I accepted the apology and never brought up the incidents. I was taugh that when people ask for forgiveness, you forgive and that's the end of it. The attitude of many black people is far different from yours. George Wallace asked the blacks of Alabama to forgive him, and many did. You don't hear black people criticizing Senator Byrd because he has apologized for his Klan activities. That's the way it should be. I see no reason to keep bringing up a mistake that happened years ago, a mistake for which someone has apologized over and over again. Over the years, Jackson has not done one ting that would suggest that he has a dislike of Jews. Other people have shown that they are anti-Semitic but they are not black and their offense is not constantly being thrown in their face.

[Spinzonner]

37. It's not a question of what I want from him

As I said, I voted for him after he said it.

I am merely trying to point out that there are some things that are difficult, if not impossible to live down in politics - for better or for worse - and that symptoms - real or apparent - of prejudice are among the most difficult.

The fact that he has that history and that I recall it means that others who have an agenda surely will and the Republican smear machine will use it. That makes him virtually untenable as a candidate IMHO.

And I would really be interested in whether a non-black would be considered unacceptable by a significant number blacks for having used the N-word in a similar context, even after an apology and a similar passage of time.

[Tomee450]

39. As I said earlier,

blacks forgave George Wallace. Nothing Jackson has ever said or done was as awful as that done by Wallace. His actions were partly responsible for the death of those little girls in Birmingham. I would not hold it against someone who said the N word but came to me and apologized. I wouldn't know what was in his heart so if he had no history of being racist, why would I not accept his apology. I believe in forgiveness, not in holding against someone a mistake that occurred decades ago, or even a few months ago if the person appears to be genuinely sorry. My point is though, that other people's mistakes are not held against them to the extent that a black person's mistake is held against him. There is a double standard. Why should Jackson's lifetime of doing good works be dismissed because of an insensitive remark made decades ago for which he has shown great remorse. To me, that's just wrong.

[Spinzonner]

42. I was really looking for a broader perspective than your personal

feelings. I know that some blacks forgave Wallace; how representative was that ? But of course you do not speak for most or all blacks anymore than I do for any significant proportion of Jews.

I don't know about you, but I'm not particularly capable of judgiong the sincerity of most politicians on the upside. The downsise is easy to spot but there reactions and presentations are so polished and practiced that I am cynical about being able to see how much that represents what is really inside. But then that's me ...

I don't know that there is a significant double standard but I don't really have the background to judge that. I do know that it's very much a 'gotchya' political climate which the Republicans will try and exploit in the worst ways they can.

In any case, thanks for your feedback.

[Tim4319]

44. AMEN!

Well said!

[Booster]

6. Jesse's got way too much baggage, and to tell you the truth, I

never understand a word he says because he goes off rambling to himself. I asked a black woman friend of mine about it and she said "you too. I never have understand what that brother was saying". ha cracked me up.

[Tomee450]

17. I am highly skeptical that

any black person told you that. That is a common tactic employed by some people who disagree with the message of certain blacks. They claim they have difficulty in understanding what the black person says. I have no difficulty understanding Jackson whatsoever and he never goes off mumbling to himself as you assert. Why say something that is untrue? Just come right out and say you don't like the man;probably don't like him because he is an activist. As far as baggage, every politician has baggage. I don't see why Jesse's so called baggage should be considered worse than others. Clinton had baggage he ran and won. Bush had baggage he also ran and won. Jesse's biggest problem is that he is a black civil rights activist whom many whites will never vote for. I wish people would stop with the " I asked my black friend" blah, blah, blah. Most black people know immediately that that person has probably never had a black friend in his life. It's like saying some of my best friends are black. Red flag!

[Booster]

19. Well, all I can say is you are very wrong, and I feel sorry for you.

That particular friend happened to be a Republican as well, and I guess you will say I'm lying about that also. I really don't feel the need to explain myself to you at all. Guess you don't have any good white friends that you can talk about anything at all with and that's sad.

[Tomee450]

23. As a matter of fact I

do have white friends and they would never make the remark you made. They are not prejudiced and appreciate the work Jesse has tried to do. You suggested that Jackson is inarticulate, a common tactic used by people against African American with whom they disagree. Even if your your friend is a black Republican I am still skeptical. Jesse may have his faults but being inarticulate is not one of them. And he has less baggage than many candidates for president. However, Jesse would not stand a chance;he is the wrong color.

[goclark]

7. Too Many Remember 3 things

And there are so many other things that he did to make this world a better place.

Oh, if only we held GWBush to the same standard.


AWOL, a drunk, coke head president of the United States.


By the way, he is still married, has beautiful accomplished children, a drum major for justice for years, a minority etc. etc.

But we hold him to a HIGHER STANDARD.

[Psephos]

8. If he can't honor his word to his wife, why would honor it to anyone else?

It's a sad comment on our times that we have to define *that* as a higher standard.

Jesse has a place in American politics, but it's not on a donk ticket. The man has more baggage than the lost suitcase office at LAX.

Peace.

[goclark]

12. JFK, LBJ,and the beat goes on...

I bet there are few politicians in Washington that are true to their wives.

He was NOT in the WH, nor in Congress at the time.

Don't forget that MLK was not true to his wife so they say. I would be thrilled to have MLK as my president.


50% of the marriages end in divorce --that is telling right there.

Clinton had a blue dressed Monica and he is still married to Hilliary.

Not picking Jesse apart, just saying that there are too many glass houses in politics to hold him to that one.

I don't think he would even want to be Vice President,he may want his son to be President one day.

Of course, there may be a Fox News that gets us to believe that young Jesse cheated on his wife.

Swift Boats seem to always attack our heroes---- huum.

[Psephos]

14. Maybe it's ok with you, but it's not with me.

I hate liars.

We all have our own standards, our own way of judging the basic goodness of someone else. That's mine.

Peace.

[jobycom]

16. Who will you vote for, then?

I hate liars and cheaters, too. So in our 240 year history, that probably leaves Jimmy Carter and the one president who remained a bachelor. Who are you going to vote for in 2008?

[Psephos]

27. Ask me in three more years.

However, I can tell you for sure that it won't be someone who abused his wife by sleeping with other women and lying to her about it, though.

To my way of thinking such abuse isn't very progressive.

Peace.

[jobycom]

40. What if the candidate is a woman who cheated on her husband?

I honestly can't think of a major candidate (or a minor one) of either party who hasn't cheated. Maybe Gore. I wouldn't bet money on it, though.

[Psephos]

43. Of course

That probably rules Hillary out, btw. Not that I would vote for her anyway.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a big thread. I was just stating my own convictions. If others feel differently, fine, I'm not pushing my standards, but I'm not going to walk away from them either, just because "everybody's doing it." I don't respect cheaters and liars in my personal life, and won't knowingly vote for one for president.

For my money, it seems we too often try to excuse politicians from behaviors we have no problem condemning among ourselves. (Well, at least those politicans whose views we like.) Seems kind of backwards to me. I would like to see a better class of people hold the power of elected office.

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

Peace.

[jobycom]

46. It always seems to me

that we hold our leaders to personal standards that have nothing to do with their jobs. I get very upset at that attitude, in fact. Someone like Kennedy, or Clinton, or MLK, not to mention our founders, have had tremendous virtues, and have done tremendous good for millions of people, and to dismiss those virtues because of personal shortcomings that the majority of people have just seems immoral to me. Imagine if people had refused to follow MLK. Would the world be better without the Civil Rights movement because the man who managed to focus the passion of that movement had failings as a husband? If people had never voted for Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy or Clinton, would they have made the world a better or worse place?

Then again, maybe we'd have avoided both Bushes and Reagan using that standard. But then, I doubt that their opponents were clean, either. Except, maybe, Carter.

[Psephos]

47. In my view, personal standards have everything to do with their jobs

A job is something you do. It's not a separate universe that you enter when you punch the clock. It's one more aspect of your life. Who you are is *not* a function of what you do. What you do *is* a function of who you are.

Unfortunately, the concept of compartmentalizing acquired mythological status during Clinton's administration. It's time to discard this canard, which gained currency for purely political reasons. How many times did we hear that Clinton is brilliant? So was Oppenheimer. So was de Sade. Intellectuals (and lawyers) can dream up a way of justifying anything, especially when legions of fawning enablers nod their heads at every turn.

To the man-in-the-street,
Who, I'm sorry to say,
Is a keen observer of life,
The word "Intellectual" suggests straight away
A man who's untrue to his wife.
- W. H. Auden

Liars lie. Cheaters cheat. It's what they do. Once you know someone is a liar or a cheater, then you can be certain they will do it again. Does the name Bush ring a bell?

If you will lie to your wife or husband then you will lie to anyone. I'm not ragging on Clinton per se, as much as saying that maybe if we didn't have a political farm system that tacitly accepts liars and cheaters as good enough for office, then we'd have had even better people than Kennedy or Clinton or Jefferson or whoever. Kennedy would have been a better and more effective president without all the behind-the-scenes tomfoolery. Need I even mention Clinton again? Jefferson screwing the slave in the barn didn't help his legacy any, either - and caused him more than a little problem in his own day.

History is instructive about who we had for leaders, but silent about who we didn't. I personally know better people than Kennedy or Clinton or MLK. That's right, better. They would have been extraordinary leaders if offered the chance, abler and more accomplished than who we got. Remember that movie, Field of Dreams? The doctor (played by Burt Lancaster) who never got his shot in The Show? By analogy, the country is full of people who never got their shot in The Show. But we sit around and say tut tut, they're all a rum lot, and then keep electing people who think honesty and trustworthiness are for chumps.

I'm not a chump and I won't knowingly vote for someone who plays me (or their spouse) for one. Maybe there are still a few progressives who feel the same way. But even if not, my opinion about this is firm.

Peace.

[jobycom]

48. So you'd have voted for Hitler over FDR.

Hitler was notoriously faithful to Eva Braun. FDR was not faithful to his spouse. Your logic has Hitler being a better choice than FDR.

That's just morally wrong. Focusing on one aspect of an individual's life is elitist and arrogant, and just wrong. There are worse sins than lying, far worse sins than cheating. You'd kill civil rights for human weakness. You'd condemn a hundred hostages to death for the human weakness of the one person with the compassion and humanity to save them. I'm sorry, that's just sick.

I'm scrupulously honest and faithful, and I detest liars and cheaters, too, for more personal reasons than I would go into on a public bulletin board. But the greater wrong was segregation. The greater wrong was the overthrow of democracy through an illegal impeachment. The greater wrong was continued segregation. I hear your point about rethinking all the criteria for public office, but I can't even begin to agree with it. The bad guys, and I don't just mean Bush, will not use character filters to weaken their talent pool. If we do, we commit a lot greater sin than someone unfaithful to their wife. Puritanism never leads to better morality.

[Psephos]

49. Of course not

The question of personal honesty is not the sole, or even the main, determinant of who gets my vote. But is an important one.

You have now called me elitist, arrogant, and sick because my opinion isn't the same as yours. Rather ironic, I'd say. Sorry, end of discussion.

[goclark]

28. I didn't say that people should LIE

I work to get GWB out of office every day.

I said that honesty and politician are not soul mates.

Wish they were but they are not.


I would not want Jesse Jackson to run for President. He did that already.

I did work in his campaign when he did run and the experience was fantastic! A chance of a life time.

He allowed African Americans to learn the nuts and bolts of politics during that campaign. He inspired many,such as Maxine, Diane Watson and on and on to run and get elected!

He made it possible for me to be a Delegate and meet the political heroes of that era.

But for Jesse Jackson, there would be no Ron Brown and hundreds of others that have supported the Democratic Party with honor.

I prefer to see him lend his considerable talents to advise others,he is a hero in the African American community and has always been there for us.

He was there on Saturday, with Cindy!
He was there with MLK and that alone is good enough for me.

Sometimes liars have other qualities that are a gift to humanity.
Jesse does, GW does not. He is still looking for WMD and OBL but the American people "elected" him.

You may not like Liars and I may not like liars but millions of people vote for them.

The worse LIARS are like Rush and Bill O'Reilly, trying to tell people how to live their lives and LIE LIE LIE about their personal life.

Go figure.

You must have an amazing crystal ball because I would not begin to know who is not true to their wife in politics!

I could invest my belief in a real Player! :)

[Psephos]

38. That's cool, I appreciate what you're saying

As I said (rather laconically), Jackson does have a rightful place in American politics. I'm both knowledgeable of, and grateful for, his many contributions, some of which you just described very eloquently.

As I said, we each have our own ways of judging others, and I won't pull the lever for someone who violates one of my core principles, which is that when you pledge your allegiance in heart and mind to your wife or husband, you stand behind your words. Loyalty is everything in my universe. Divorce is easy enough to obtain if it turns out you can't or won't honor your promise, and there's nothing wrong with fixing a mistake. What I disdain are people who try to have it both ways. Politically, it leaves me suspicious they'll take the same approach with promises made to the electorate.

I didn't vote for Big Dog for that same reason (and no, I didn't vote repuke). Others feel differently, and that's their right. I voiced my opinion. When I look at the current political landscape, I have no problem thinking that maybe we ought to start electing a better class of people.

Peace.


edit: typo

[Tomee450]

32. Really?

So you never lie. You are perfect. You know that every candidate that you voted for was faithful to his spouse. I know that you never voted for Clinton because of his reputation for being unfaithful. I have discovered that some people will seize upon anything in an attempt to justify their dislike of a certain person when there really is no real reason to dislike him. People who seize upon Jackson's adultery to dismiss his entire life of trying to help people of all races, are those kind of people.

[Tomee450]

30. Oh please.

Jesse is being held to a higher standard than other people. Jfk, LBJ Eisenhower, FDR, Clinton, all cheated on their wives. Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton also were cheats yet they are revered. Franklin serviced half the women of Paris. Many prominent figures have been unfaithul. I have no doubt if there was a close examination of the private lives of many members of Congress we'd find numerous cases of cheating. People are not perfect. It's ridiculous to continue harping on Jackson's adultery as if he is the only prominent figure to have cheated on his wife. At least he and his wife have worked out their problem and are still together.

[Tim4319]

45. What someone does in their personal lives it their business.

He has dedicated his entire life to the cause of making America a better place for all people. So, to question his dedication to helping people because he had an affair, is a little too nit-picky.

[Tomee450]

25. Isn't that the truth.

Well you know in this society the black person is supposed to be perfect. If he makes a mistake it remains with him forever. Others who are not black are allowed to go forward without the past being thrown in their face. On this very forum, countless people just love Senator Byrd although he was a member of a terrible organization which killed thousands of blacks.

[darkism]

9. Clinton/Jackson 2008!

I don't think we'd even win Massachusetts with that one.

[renie408]

10. How about "Gore/Bullwinkle"??

[ohio_liberal]

11. He got busted taking money from NASCAR

:evilgrin:

[jobycom]

13. I voted for him before, I'd be honored to do it again. If he were white

he'd have won in 88. There are no candidates without the baggage he carries, the only reason it looks worse on Jackson is because the Repubs were less subtle in their smear campaigns against him, and even a lot of Democrats bought into it before they were aware of what was happening.

The man championed Civil Rights when it was no longer cool, he's negotiated the release of American hostages in Lebanon and Iraq when those hostages would have probably died otherwise, he offered nothing in return for those hostages and still convinced hostile leaders to release them. He's never fallen for Bush's lies and opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning. You never have to check to make sure he's on the right side. He's a brilliant man, a brilliant humanitarian, a true dimplomat and statesman, and a tireless human rights activist here at home and abroad. And he may be the best speaker this nation has seen since MLK.

I'm always ashamed to meet people, especially Dems, who have bought the racist smears of the right about him. He's everything we say we want in a candidate and a leader, and because he was swiftboated before people understood what swiftboating was, he's betrayed even by his own side. Truly sad.

[NervousRex]

15. Right on!

I worked on Jackson's '88 campaign...I saw this man fire up an arena full of redneck papermill workers in Green Bay WI, like nothing I have ever seen before, and since.....this man is someone we need.

[goclark]

29. Well said jobycom, well said! Jesse is an American Hero

[Tomee450]

35. Great post.

It truly is sad that people so easily forget all the good Jesse Jackson has done and continues to do.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

18. I campaigned for Jesse in '88

I was young and new to politics and I heard him speak, standing outside the venue listening on speakers, and he just blew me away.

But I don't think he could ever win on the national level, he's got too much baggage.

And still, I love to listen to him, I get nostalgic for those days when I was full of hope and sure that Jesse could change the world.

[high density]

21. You kidding? He's like 1000x more flammable than Hillary

:eyes:

[jobycom]

41. So was Bill. He sure failed to get elected. nt.

[fujiyama]

36. Ummmm...

No.

He had his turn in '88. It didn't work. He has plenty of baggage.

His son has a good future ahead of him though. He's done a good job in the House. I certainly wouldn't mind having him as the VP candidate.