I'm confused; so was the march a success or not?

[libnnc]

All evening there have been those of us who have come home from DC thrilled that we were able to take part in a historic event. We've tried to share that joy here only to be shot down by folks who DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO GO. Do I agree with ANSWER? NO! I didn't even listen to half the rally. I was part of the hundreds of folks who chose to leave the rally early and line up in the street ready to march.

Those here at DU who hate ANSWER will you all please do me a fucking favor and ORGANIZE THE NEXT HISTORIC ANTI-WAR PROTEST? Or shut the fuck up and allow those of us who sacrificed jobs, vacation time, family responsibilites and cold hard cash to travel to DC to speak out against this illegal war...allow us to celebrate just a teeny-tiny bit? Will you MENSA brilliant, foreign policy-wonk heads let us commoners have one moment to celebrate? Or is that too much to ask?
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[SteppingRazor]

1. No.

You know what was wrong with that protest? ANSWER. Man, those ANSWER guys just are the absolute worst. I mean, why even go to a protest if ANSWER organized it? ;)

[longship]

9. Glass is half-empty, eh?

nt

[SteppingRazor]

11. Kidding, of course!

I think this weekend's protest went swimmingly. WOuld like to have seen more coverage Saturday by the networks and cable news, but whattaya gonna do?

As for ANSWER, yeah, the group's a bit whacked out. But United for Peace and Justice did the lion's share of organizing for this event, so what the hell? ANSWER was just another face in the crowd. I think their participation is blown out of proportion.

[longship]

20. Glass half-full, eh?

ROFL!!
:rofl:

[SteppingRazor]

21. Oh, shut up.

:evilgrin:

[longship]

23. Sorry, couldn't help that one... hehehehe

nt

[SittingBull]

36. CoIntelpro at work

that was it, peace mission. Now let's go, hate A.N.S.W.E.R, and forget about your common goal.

Like in Life of Brian.

[Melodybe]

64. The protest was MASSIVE, I would say it was a big victory!

[GetTheRightVote]

2. I am for celebrating because it was great and historical, the beginning

of bigger and better things yet to come, it will happen, I just hope it happens sooner then later......

:kick:

[RagingInMiami]

3. Here, here

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[not systems]

4. It was a big success...

the coverage in the papers has been very good.

And not a word about ANSWER except on right wing radio
and blogs and strangely on progressive message boards.

[bettyellen]

5. 1/2 million people with a clear message, or so said my local rag....

i'm glad i went, and proud of those, like you, that did.
what are they waiting for? the perfect rally?
what bullshit.
:HI:

[rman]

25. If you'd looked at C-SPAN, there was no clear message.

That's not C-SPAN's fault; they simply showed the speeches at the ANSWER stage about lots of topics that people hadn't come to DC for.

[libnnc]

31. some of us were'nt watching Cspan

some of us were getting crushed by foreign press in the street waiting for the march to begin.

[bettyellen]

48. worse was the MSM TV coverage that millions saw...

giving equal time to the pro war folks.
C span attracts new junkies, educated people and they are either on our side or decided to be selfish fucks a long time ago. cindy gave an amazing sppech. everyone should have broadcast it, that's a bigger shame than the answer nonsense.

[jonnyblitz]

6. they do this for every protest like clockwork..

you can count on it. this time they were more hysterical about it.

[Nite Owl]

7. No way that all of us couldn't have made a difference

They can say what they want, the sheer numbers had to be enough to make them all know how serious we are. There were people there from every state! I'm still flying high. ANSWER was just part of it. It was about the people, it was about democracy and we aren't going to let it go. I really feel so much more optimistic now. (Though my feet may never recover!)

[libnnc]

8. my legs are noodles. I'm exhausted.

[rucky]

50. sorry, it was all for nothing.

if it's not perfect, then you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

:sarcasm:

[John Q. Citizen]

10. Right on. Thank you for walking the walk and

to those who want to whine because everything wasn't exactly as they would have done it (had they done it) I say, hows about letting us know when the date of the new and improved protest is?

[NMMNG]

12. You go girl!

:toast::kick::yourock::patriot::headbang::toast::kick::yourock::patriot::headbang::toast::kick::yourock::patriot::headbang::toast::kick::yourock::patriot::headbang:

We participated in a kick-ass parade. Don't let anybody rain on it.

[renabear]

13. Of course it was a success!

Allow a low poster to make the point that any time you get hundreds of thousands of citizens to give up a weekend and go to DC to be heard and to try to persuade others to join you HAS to be a success! Anytime you get that many people together there will be some kinks here and there; I've voiced my own discomfort with the Death to Israel people. But these few loose cannons cannot take away the absolutely powerful message that the march and protest conveyed! I have hope renewed that this war will end soon. The pressure is on, and we will keep it on until every last man and woman in uniform is reunited with his/her family and the Iraqis are left to live in peace (after we help the UN rebuild their country which is only fair--we destroyed the infrastructure, we must restore it).

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Me and the 499,999 people around me all thought it was a great success.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[spuddonna]

15. It was a huge success!

Are you kidding?!

I've talked to conservative family members who thought that the 60's 'hippies' were wackos and even these people said "Good for the marchers!"

Many of my family had no idea there was going to be a protest this weekend, and when I told them they were so excited! They are so angry that we are still in Iraq - and these family members are Democrats AND Republicans!

What I want to know is, when is the next protest! :)

[libnnc]

16. And another thing...

This DC event was my first trip outside of North Carolina by myself. I'm 35 years old and this was the first time I EVER traveled alone. Me, a nerdy little blonde lesbian from the sticks. I was scared shitless but was lucky to meet a nice woman from Boston who shared my hostel room and allowed me to tag along with her and her United for Peace and Justice friends. This weekend was a huge deal for me and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and let armchair critics and nay-sayers spoil what we accomplished. :rant:

[prolesunited]

65. Thank you for your bravery

I was never a protester myself before this administration, so I know how you feel. It's very scary being out there by yourself and you deserve applause, not condemnation.

I flew out to DC in 2003 by myself, but we just didn't have the funds or time off to do it this time.

Try not to take the threads criticizing the march too heart. It happens *every* time. Just close your eyes and remember what it felt like to be in a sea of thousands of like-minded people and bask in it.

You know in your heart that you were strong and brave and righteous. Screw those who say any different.

[Lupus]

17. Marching

Any march or other protest is a success. It shows that people are willing to stand up for what they believe in and make their voices heard. Now I have never been in any sort of political rally, but as soon as I'm done with high school, that's all I intend to do. At least until things drastically improve. What we need to see more of is the young people standing up. The older generation is too busy trying to support their families that they have not the time to worry about what really matters outside of their families. Thus it falls to the young people to fight the war. I'm sure Bill Cosby would agree with me. The government is trying to make people so poor that they have no time to rise up. But they have not underestimated the youth either. They are influencing them through the media and blinding them to what the real world is like. It's disgusting.

[PittLib]

28. Indeed ...

I was somewhat awed by the young turnout at this protest - and a little envious of their youth, or more importantly their wisdom. I am 30 - and I cannot say that I would have been so bold and outspoken in high school (although I did not need to (Clinton) so it is difficult to say). I applaud you - please keep using your voice.

[bpilgrim]

18. well said

:toast: & double thanks for MARCHING :toast: :toast:

peace

[BigBearJohn]

19. I'm 100% with you on this. You go girl!

[Rainscents]

22. You did great! March was huge!!!

:bounce:

[rman]

24. Of course it was - in spite of ANSWER.

I think the fact that they organized this does not place them above criticism.

[libnnc]

27. and I was one of the first ones to criticize them

but I'm not going to crap on the whole event just because a few of their speakers were blathering at the microphone.

[rman]

29. Most critics of ANSWER don't crap on the whole event.

Ie the DU-crowd in DC turned it's back on answer - and went to march.

To get an idea of the opinion of some DU-ers who did go to the demonstration, i'd like to point out this thread, and especially symbolman's reply #5.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4878485&mesg_id=4878485

There were in fact *a lot* of answer's speakers blathering at the microphone; one and a half hour's worth. Apparently C-SPAN loved every minute of it so a lot of people who didn't go to the demonstration got to see that - i'm sure it encouraged a lot of them to go next time... :eyes:

The fact that the RW is having a field day with this and with ANSWER's Stalin-style communist associations, is the least of our concerns.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. The fact that ANSWER was a co-organizer

doesn't make them unworthy of praise that it came off so well, either.

United for Peace and Justice deserves a lot of praise also, as do the marchers!

Thank you everyone for being there.

[McCamy Taylor]

26. Big Sucess. Didnt listen to ANSWER. Too busy listening to people.

[deutsey]

42. Check out what these people who were there had to say:

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2005/09/katrina_and_cindy.html




It's long, but well worth the read.

[John Q. Citizen]

58. That's a great article, thanks for posting it. Do you know if it's been

posted in the Editorials and Other Articles forum yet? It deserves it's own thread.

(edited for puctuation)

[bos1]

32. Depends how you define "Success"

Reading posts like yours and the other positive ones below makes me think it was a success for many people personally, for showing the country and the world the number of people who are passionately antiwar, etc.

But how is the political scene different today that it was last week, before the protest? Don't forget there were millions in the antiwar marches before the war, and yet we got war. A lesson some learned is that these public protests have no effect in the US of A.

[qanda]

33. I was wondering the same thing

I spent the last few days defending the march as a success-- not at FreeRepublic, but here on DU. I was wondering yesterday why the people who didn't bother to show up were being allowed to control the message of how the march went down-- It baffles the mind.

The one point that I will try to make again here is that ANSWER is not destroying America, they didn't give us NAFTA, CAFTA, the Bankruptcy Bill, the Iraq War and on and on. We can thank our spineless Democratic leaders for those things, but ANSWER is the villian because they didn't stay on message at an anti-war march that they helped organize. Give me a break!

[NuttyFluffers]

34. of course it was a success. you won the numbers war, by far.

and even by obscenely rounding down they, the sanctioned gatekeepers of pop culture "facts," were still to concede 100,000. that's huge.

and even by obscenely rounding up they, the sanctioned gatekeepers of pop culture "facts," were only able to work up 400 for the pro-war protest.

100,000 to 400 is not even a contest. completely unspinnable. the truth of 500,000 to 200 (or whatever) is a rout of biblical proportions.

complete and utter victory in the headlines game. nothing can take that away. everything else is gravy.

and if we can flood our representatives with that many letters, they'd be quivering, those who listen, and those who don't will know that their political ass is grass. oh yeah, and we gotta take a baseball bat to voting machines, asap. figuratively, figuratively... yeah, figuratively...

[Nay]

35. It was certainly a success. My feet were killing me, but I didn't care.

No one else cared about how they felt, either, even the folks in wheelchairs and on crutches.

There had to have been at least 300,000 people there. It does not matter what kind of attention was paid to us in the media--in the early Viet Nam protests, no one paid attention either. All that mattered was that we SHOWED UP -- so that those who are inclined to attend the next protest will actually show up. How many of you here are wishing you had been there? If I hadn't gone, I would be kicking myself right now. No one protest, no one action, will take us all the way to victory. It is the accumulation of acts, the accretion of marches, etc., that will put us over the top.

The MAJOR problem we have is the fact that prominent Democratic politicians, with a few exceptions, are not standing with us. That is still very worrisome to me.

[demnan]

37. It was a grand success

and I think someone should mention that it was a lot of fun too. That's so the naysayers will realize what they missed. ;)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. Success?

Is the war still going on?

[tlsmith1963]

39. Okay, I'm Sorry

I want Bush & the neocons out so much that I'm trying to find a way to get rid of them. I was just bothered by the way ANSWER behaved on C-SPAN & thought they would hurt our cause. Maybe if C-SPAN had bothered to show the march too, I wouldn't have been so upset. I wanted to see the march.

Tammy

[Protagoras]

62. Honestly I didn't know it was a success till I read about it here

on Monday.

Because I made the mistake of turning on C-Span to see how it was going...and our local news made essentially zero mention of it.

Chilling to know something so big could be so completely misrepresented. I'm glad Cindy did what she had to do because that's the most press we had about it for a day.

So my impression is it was a success there, But it was also heavily sabotaged by the MSM around the rest of the country.

Let's hope though it does indeed act as the kindling for bigger, more impactful events.

[katinmn]

40. Those that didn't go can squawk all they want --

doesn't mean shit.

So they watched it on TV. Not the same as being there.

Armchair "activists" make me sick.

[deutsey]

41. Big success, unless you're sitting around waiting for the perfect protest

You know, the ones you see in all those groovy movies about the '60s, the ones that never happened the way the movies portray them as happening?

I organized a group from my hometown to go to DC on Saturday. Many had never been to a demonstration before. This event not only energized everyone who went, it's also connected them in ways that will help to organize future events locally or on the national level again.

Yeah...what a fricking failure, huh? :eyes:

I, for one, celebrate with you.

[LetsGoMurphys]

43. What is the gripe with ANSWER exactly n/t

[goodhue]

46. They are commies and/or they don't stay on message

From what I can glean

[HughBeaumont]

44. I thought we got our point across.

Can't ignore 1/2 a million people.

[goodhue]

45. It was a huge success

Only couch potatoes who hate commies seem to have a problem.

[librechik]

51. yes! Everyone in the media is still talking about it constantly!

not.

How does one measure success of an event meant to fire up the dialogue and make a big impression?

Well, it got 3 minutes on MSGOP and a rolling banner on CNN. Our only REAL coverage only covered the stage and ignored the march completely.

You tell me. It's Tuesday. Has everyone forgotten about it yet?

I know it was great for our morale, and everyone who participated should be proud. And angry! This event, IMO, mischaracterized our movement as old, tired, and overrun by foreign interests.

Now, let's go organize OUR OWN movement, just as you say. I don't hate commies, but I'm not a commie, and now I will be called one without my assent. We need to organize ourselves.

Write MoveOn and PFAW and whoever else & beg them to organize the next event.

[goodhue]

53. Turn off the TV already

Media coverage is an ill-fated measure. They are not going to give such an event the coverage it deserves no matter how well organized.

The people I know here in MN who rode there and back on 10 full buses, arriving back yesterday afternoon have not forgotten about it. Some do wonder whether supposed antiwar democratic leaders like Kennedy, Feingold, Boxer and Dayton, have forgotten about them, seeing as none of them sought fit to join the 300,000 folks in DC.

[SeanQ]

47. I was there in spirit

[Lars39]

49. C-Span didn't show the march, they showed about 3 hours of

ANSWER speakers. Only LINK channel showed the march.

[Podface]

52. Boo Hoo...Whaaaaa

It was not a success. If it was it would be all over the media.

It's not about you personally - It's about getting the unconverted and uninformed to notice and realize that it's not just some stale hippies complaining. Well, as far as I can tell that's the perception that came out of the event. If I were you I would be more pissed than most for those idiots missing the boat on an amazing opportunity.

Not only am I disgusted, I am ashamed. The enormous liberal, politically active, Jewish community is left with a really bad taste in their mouths. How many liberal journalists, major editorial contributors, and editors are Jewish? Now, any future major protests on the Iraq war have to be preceded by detailed identification of the agenda, not only to the press, but to many folks that would normally participate.

And people here wonder why Democrat Politicians didn't get behind this event. Are you fucking kidding me? By associating with one cause, they would have to associate with all the pet causes of the organizers. Their opponents would have torn them apart.


I can't speak for everyone here but from what I see, people are pissed at ANSWER for blowing a chance to catch the wave. I haven't seen people bitching about folks that went (you should be proud of that) just the moronic organizers who blew an opportunity to get MAJOR HUGE press behind this cause.


If people here think I'm full of shit, why did Cindy Sheehan and a few hundred others being arrested get 1000 times the press of 250,000 people marching in DC.

[6th Borough]

54. Most of the printed press ignored ANSWER and focused on the actual march.

...At least from what I've seen (AP, Knight-Ridder, Tribune Company, various wires).

C-Span covered the speeches, because, well...C-Span will turn the cameras to those on the podium before they pan to a march. It's talking head TV.

I've barely seen mention of anything BUT the 100,000, 200,000k+ men and women marching when it comes to the printed-press's coverage of the event; when I have read anything about the speeches, it's invariably been a nod to Cindy Sheehan's participation...no mention of ANSWER, Free Puerto Rico, Mumia...etc.

I'm a bit surprised...though I'm sure the Moonie Times, NY Post et. al. have played their spin.

[walldude]

55. Doesn't matter what the press thinks

doesn't matter what they report. The truth is nearly half a million people marched past 150 pro-war supporters to show their solidarity. That alone was worth the price of admission..

[KerryOn]

56. To me and the 100's of thousands with me it was a sucess...

I got home last night and was very disappointed with the media coverage. Shocked actually that our local paper only had a small bit saying there were a few thousand. A few thousand my ass!

My own estimate put the crowd at least 300,000 easy!

Then last night on CNN and MSNBC all they had of yesterdays events was a few 30 second clips of Cindy being carried away. And all they said was that Cindy and a FEW others were arrested for refusing to leave.

They did not show one single clip of the Metro Buses hauling away the hundreds that were arrested.

They did not show one single clip of the crowd chanting things like "Arrest Bush! or "The Whole World Is Watching".

They did not show one single clip of the police on horse back that wedged between the protesters on the side walk and those of us in the street. (I think we made the police kind of nervous for a few minutes.)

If the media would report things as they really were I don't think it would matter much who organized the event!

The fact is that there was an event. A very large event that shows that the people of this country are fed up. The event should have made history in my opinion, and because the media does not do their job and report what they see, it will just be another protest and nothing more.

I did not know how many people to expect when I got there. I walked up Constitution Ave toward he ellipse, past the Navy Memorial where about two hundred pro-war demonstrators had gathered. As I walked further west up to 15th street my jaw dropped to the ground when I saw he crowd.

Looking up 15th street to the north form Constitution Ave, the street was jammed with people as far as the eye could see! (Have pic will post latter.)

Why wasn't the media standing where I was?

[SharonRB]

57. Of course it was a success

Just because a lot of us disagree with ANSWER doesn't matter. Unfortunately, C-SPAN chose to give their speeches a lot of coverage. They weren't the only or even the main sponsor. I, for one, tuned them out completely. The turnout was huge and we all should be very proud of that. The crowd was so diverse -- grandmothers and grandfathers, parents and children, college students, professional people, union workers, nuns and priests -- in short, normal, mainstream people. It showed just how little support GWB has and how many people feel the same way most of us on DU do.

I'm so glad I went. I'm 56 years old, and it's the first time I've ever done anything like this. I was so happy to meet so many from DU in person and I can't wait for the next time we can all get together.

[sinkingfeeling]

59. You know, I went to DC and marched against the VN war and I went

last weekend to march against the Iraqi Invasion. And I wish all those who either did not attend or who insist it was a failure (didn't change a thing) or who hate to be associated with ANSWER, to just Shut Up!!

It took us a very long time to swing public opinion on Viet Nam and it was done mostly without 'media' covering every move. It will take less time now, because Bush is an asshole and more people already know that and because of the 'media', like the internet, that did not exist in 1960-1975!

So, just keep on complaining to each other about how imperfect the event was, how someone talked on stage about something you disagreed with, or how no one convinced anybody to disapprove of our quest for global occupation. You're just making me angrier and the angrier I get, the more I'll be in the streets!!

[sinkingfeeling]

60. Duplicate

[AngryAmish]

61. Our enemies are terrified

When they see 3/4 of a million march, they know that they are the next to be crushed. They know and fear our power so they send agents to disparage and discredit our leaders and message.

[lotusblossom]

63. Resounding Success

Coming out of lurk status to reply to this thread. From my viewpoint, this was a resounding success. Obviously one march is not going to lead to the pull-out of troops, but I know for myself, that it brought a new feeling of energy and hopefulness that this is just the beginning and that the peace movement will continue to grow and prosper. Hopefully it will become so enormous that eventually even the media will not be able to ignore it.

I am still on a high three days later. This was my first march since I was only in high school during the late 60’s, but my sister came down from Maine to go with me (along with my husband and 26 year-old daughter) and she felt that there was a lot of similarity to the Vietnam War marches she attended with the exception that this time, it seemed to bring in a more complete cross-section of America – old, young, baby-boomers, all races, ethnicities, religions, economic statuses, etc..

We had a blast and it felt so wonderful to be among hundreds of thousands of like-minded people. We particularly enjoyed the street theatre and creative signs. My DH really surprised me. He tends to not want to discuss politics very often but he decided to attend and as time elapsed I could see that even he was feeling energized, especially when he actually started singing and chanting along with everyone else.

I highly encourage anyone who did not attend this time due to fear of reprisal to let go of that fear and come to future events. I barely even noticed a police presence during the march and the freeper contingent was so small that they never had a chance (or the nerve) to make any trouble. :-)

[KittyWampus]

66. 500,000 Is Successful, No? But Some Of Us Believe The Left Can Organize

without relying on the counterproductive assholes at ANSWER being in charge.

If you can't deal with VALID & COSNTRUCTIVE critcism of ANSWER, maybe you shouldn't follow politics or post on a political forum.

Damn, noone is bitching about all the Lefties who showed up to protest.

[libnnc]

67. so when are you going to organize the next march?