I don't think those who don't think Cindy is helping anymore, are helping

[omega minimo]

or maybe they are..... nipping at the heels of greatness out of fear, yearning for proximity to the honest, simple truth.

The message of Cindy Sheehan, of the Framers, of all the Great Teachers, of all the Myths of America that refuse to die, of all stories of all heroes is:

It is us. Each of us. Alone. Together. Alone together. That's how it works.

Cindy is in or out of the paddy wagon and on or off the pedestal.

I would vote for Viggo for political office not because he plays King and is The Sexiest Man Alive, but because he has more of the qualities of a true leader and statesman than the current WH Occupant.

The heroes, the leaders now, are Us. A woman in a straw hat in a ditch becomes an icon. A handsome actor is a human being with the gifts of clear-eyed, unpretentious thought; unapologetically speaking Truth to Power, because he knows it is the most patriotic act one can embody. He knows that the System that begets that Power demands that we each stand for it, or it is done.

We come to DU looking for-- what? How is it that in moments of great stress the best and most relevant comes out on DU.... and in ten minutes we are running in circles pointing petty fingers and carping?

Let's take the best, forget the rest and each stand up, inspired and willing-- All for One and One for All.

:yourock: not :banghead:

[roguevalley]

1. agreed. you have all the idiots in congress knowing its a wrong thing

to do but beating their chests like Hamlet and voting for the war anyway. Viggo was saying no blood for oil waaaay the hell back when. He was one of the few voices. Cindy and Viggo have more integrity in their pinkies than most of the idiots and cowards in congress.

[omega minimo]

2. Must convince young non-voters that Congress is not owned by corporations

First we need to convince Congress :evilgrin:

[Beam Me Up]

3. Exactly. I may not agree with every word that comes out of Cindy's mouoth

but that isn't the point. The point is she is speaking truth to power as she understands it. She has every right to do this -- completely outside of ordinary political posturing. It doesn't matter whether Cindy is a Democrat or a Republican, she is asking a fundamental question: What 'noble cause' did her son die for? She knows just as we all know that NO SUCH NOBLE CAUSE EXISTS. It's a hard truth but it is a truth that we must all grasp. I admire Cindy for her sincerity and her bravery and I feel inspired by her presence and her simplicity. She is pointing out that putting a human face on suffering so that the whole world can see it is a powerful force in its own right. We saw that when we witnessed the thousands of faces of suffering in New Orleans and throughout the South. The media may try to spin it a certain way, but many people empathise with Cindy just as they empathized with hurricane survivors. They recognize that these are real tragedies and that they can not simply be ignored. In many ways, Cindy and camp Cassey already had America's eyes focused on Bush during his vacation. So, when the hurricane came and we saw him, once again, doing NOTHING to help people in dire need, something shifted for a lot of people. I believe at this moment a very large and growing number of people in this country are very fed up with pResident Bush and his various shenanigans. Some are even asking questions about who is really running this dog and pony show.

Whether Cindy continues to be in the spot light of public attention, who is to say. Right now she is and God Bless her! How many of us have the courage to do what she is doing? How many of us could handle it as well as she is -- especially since she is getting attention? She is NOT a public relations professional. Thank heavens. She is a real human being, a real mother and a brave and proud patriot -- the very antithesis of everything W pretends to be.

[omega minimo]

4. Bravo! Well put

...and this point is big:

"The media may try to spin it a certain way, but many people empathise with Cindy just as they empathized with hurricane survivors."

Only plain humanity (in the face of tragedy) can cut through the lard of Bush's Brain's Bullshit.

[omega minimo]

5. Is it more exciting to denigrate than to simply be?

Good night DU-- :yourock:


Thank you for letting me have my little joke on the Topic page
:rofl:

[Karenina]

9. To quote Albert...

Great spirits have always been met with violent opposition by mediocre minds.

[omega minimo]

12. With DU respect, it's happening on the board right now

My little spoof title is far less popular (Not that there's anything WRONG with that!!!!) than the one criticizing ("Cindy's not helping") or the one that piggybacked mine ("Cindy never helped") (Flamebait title, two sentences, you gotcherself a Greatest!) :evilgrin:

Thing is: my reference to Great Teachers and not being a Hypocrite..................

American democracy is not a spectator sport. It's not about tossing stones, trying to knock down-- it's about collecting the pebbles to build something up.

:patriot:

[Dunvegan]

6. I think this applies...

[omega minimo]

14. Mebbe when she pleads "Mr. President" she should quit addressing Bush

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. In every generation a leader emerges

I think this generation it is her... and if not, she is paving the way for the leader, and he\she will have a heck of a time filling shoes

Also in every generation that leader needs to learn how to become media savy (no, Martin was not in the early days, neither was Ghandhi), and needs to know when to speak and when to shut up

Her comments, some of which had me going HUH, are those of somebody with little experience on the national stage... as she becomes better, that will also improve... and of course we have the issue off... media spin... they will use whatever she says to swift boat her, or try to.

[omega minimo]

11. Waiting for leaders now is a mistake IMHO

"The message of Cindy Sheehan, of the Framers, of all the Great Teachers, of all the Myths of America that refuse to die, of all stories of all heroes is: It is us. Each of us. Alone. Together. Alone together. That's how it works."

We are in the fix we are in (and we've discussed the severity of it a bit, lately-- hi NB) because passive America had passively watched passing events passively for the past 25 years.

Who is Cindy? What qualifications does she have? NONE! She is a human being, a mother expressing her grief, an American citizen excercising her rights. She is not a leader, she is US.

Unless by "leader" some people mean waiting to see what happens to the first one to raise their hand, which is so, like you know, grade school.

The biggest challenge today is Don't Be A Hypocrite. We are confronting a Hypocrisy Machine. We embody the Princples we believe in and empower ourselves and others :patriot: or sit around and wait for the Wo/Man on the White Horse to Sweep Us Off Our Feet.

That's another myth. Camelot is over. (And we know what happens to the first one to raise their hand, now don't we?) Times have changed. American complacency created this American debacle. Time to quit :boring: :hide:

:rant:

[texpatriot2004]

8. I agree. n/t

[omega minimo]

13. Howdy texpatriot2004

:toast:

[texpatriot2004]

24. Hello from Texas

:hi:

[omega minimo]

27. I've decided to call him

President Crude

:evilgrin:

[Tsiyu]

10. Anyone who says, "Cindy isn't helping"

is a fecking wimp in my opinion.

"BooHoo, the Lady speaks her mind. Me so skewid!"

Go to hell, anyone with that opinion, 'kay?

You obviously never lived through the sixties, you're a clueless kid, or you are a Freeper troll. That's my opinion and I'll stick by it to the end.

Some folks are just jealous because they don't have the courage to speak out. Stay home and suck your thumbs - and while you're at it, Cindy Bashers - kiss my narrow white ass.

[bunkerbuster1]

15. At best, this ancient advice should be heeded, to wit:

Either push, pull, or get the hell out of the way.

Don't like Cindy Sheehan? Consider yourself a progressive? Kindly get the hell out of the way, and air whatever dirty laundry you have privately, 'K?

[omega minimo]

16. aka

"If you ain't part of the solution, you part of the problem"

:evilgrin:

[bunkerbuster1]

17. I'm a little more charitable.

I wouldn't say that it's such a binary thing. I can respect those who are genuinely concerned (as opposed to "concern-trolls," who are not) about the Anti-Iraq war movement and/or the Democratic Party's image being associated with some of its ideologically weaker links (not that I'm saying Cindy's people are that.)

You wanna talk with me or anyone else here at DU one-on-one, there's PMing that can be done.

There's a time to stand with people, time to oppose them, and yes, there IS a time to stand aside and gather your own thoughts. I'd say the genuinely concerned folks need to join that latter group for awhile.

[omega minimo]

19. Participatory democracy embodied is the strongest possbile act now

The "weak links" seem to be the corporatized drones in Democratic leadership positions and in Congress.

To draw out all the young non-voters, Congressional Dems and the Democratic Party will have to distance themselves from the corporate trough.

[bloom]

18. I'm with you

Who else was doing anything?

If someone doesn't like it - let them start a movement.

[omega minimo]

20. ok go ahead

:banghead:

[omega minimo]

21. *

:evilgrin:

[AngryAmish]

22. She is a strong woman who will crush her enemies

[omega minimo]

23. She is we

:patriot:

[omega minimo]

25. !

:puke:

[Cats Against Frist]

26. I'm going to re-post my answer from the other thread

Because I think my post specifically addresses this question of narrative, and icon -- it is true, in the case of Viggo Mortensen, as well -- as icon, which I'll address, after.

For me, personally, it all seemed a little crass and antic-y, from the beginning -- I'm not a "cult of personality," kind of person, like many of the knee-jerkers here on DU, (except for when it comes to Mario Cuomo, Frank Zappa or Thomas Jefferson -- who, I think, have proved themselves over a number of decades... ), neither am I overtly sentimental, so Cindy didn't do too much for me. That's a personal opinion, however, and I supported Camp Casey, and what she was trying to do.

It is this "jump the shark" deal that is intriguing -- when put that way, it seems clear, to me, that the entire anti-war movement has jumped the shark, since the 1960s, the protest marches, the soft-core, ball-less "all-too-civil" disobediences -- even the people who "do something," for the movement, occassionally, are still far too chained to their computers -- and don't need to be harshing others for their ineffectiveness. Some people don't participate in some of this, because they don't feel that these events, these token, sentimental narratives have any efficacy. Or little, anyway.

I, personally, hate sappy narrative, and have as much of a problem with a person -- any person -- who stands on TV, bawling -- tearless or not, and shouting slogans -- because BOTH SIDES DO IT. How do you think that the GOP got to be as pervasive as they are? They always credit it to their "reason," but it's really not -- it's baseless fear and sentimentality -- two of the most irrational human emotions that there are. So, to me, it's every bit as lame, when the left does it, as when the right does it. Perhaps this is the problem with Cindy -- nothing against the woman, her cause, her son, her message -- but because those of us who are cynics are not moved by emotional plea, and suspicious of those who are so easily "moved," by conventional narratives and attempts to tie tired signs to tired signifiers, with the intended outcome so...goddamn scripted.

For some of us, that's frustrating and we see these things as counter-effective. There are a lot of people on here who hate ANSWER for similar reasons -- it's not such a stretch, when you think about it, philosophically, to extend that same kind of critique to Cindy, or to any other person who is providing a springboard for a narrative that really has little to do with the geo-political situation, at hand.

We'd do far better to make individual, local changes, rather than uplink our brains into the national discourse -- which is a circus, in and of itself, as far as I'm concerned, and to make changes in our lives, in our activities, in our buying habits, in our alliances, rather than tailgate behind an icon, and expect it to sweep us to glory. What we should hope is that the world become too complex for simple appeals to emotion, the clap-trap and the "good story," meant to persuade a person, outside of rationality, outside of practicality.

Some of us, who are cynical, and have really sensitive bullshit detectors are sensitive to "shark-jumping" moments, and I agree with ruggerson, and some of the others -- and it's not just Cindy but this whole sixties re-dux that has outlived its efficacy.

____________________________________________________________

Now, I think Viggo Mortenson is FUCKING HOT, K? I also hate that I think that he's fucking hot. Truly. To me, it really shouldn't matter, as I try not to make worship of the construct of physical beauty one of the focal points of my human relationships. Viggo, however, though he really writes terrible poetry (sorry, Viggo), seems to be a caring person, who is socially aware, and because of LOTR, also, to some extent, carries the archtype of "king" in his bosom. With a few shrooms on top of a manic episode, I could probably run into Viggo, and feel that I should bow or something.

HOWEVER, the fact that we're even discussing Viggo, how hot he his, how cool he is, or even how caring he is, is really fucking irrelevant, when it comes to changing the world. All of this talk -- this chattering class-ing, gets us nowhere. Hands do. The rest of this, which all falls under "opinion leading," as in -- who can we sway with Cindy or Viggo or which narrative, or whatever, is counter-productive and is nothing more than a distraction.

[omega minimo]

28. Brilliant. Thank you for adding that here.

"I'm not a "cult of personality," kind of person, like many of the knee-jerkers here on DU, (except for when it comes to Mario Cuomo, Frank Zappa or Thomas Jefferson"

:rofl: Glad you've got yer priorities straight.

The hazards of the hijacked narrative have become the name of the game. Which makes the individual, pre-mediated act all the more powerful and vital.

"How do you think that the GOP got to be as pervasive as they are? They always credit it to their "reason," but it's really not -- it's baseless fear and sentimentality -- two of the most irrational human emotions that there are."

Echoes of Reagan's schtick: got the snowball rolling on today's Big Lie machine.

I understand your point about current attitudes, but the carping that showed up on DU after the March seemed really-- pardon me-- petty and wasteful...

"even the people who "do something," for the movement, occassionally, are still far too chained to their computers -- and don't need to be harshing others for their ineffectiveness."

Here you touch on how the individual, pre-mediated act does make a difference, witnessed or not:

"We'd do far better to make individual, local changes, rather than uplink our brains into the national discourse -- which is a circus, in and of itself, as far as I'm concerned, and to make changes in our lives, in our activities, in our buying habits, in our alliances, rather than tailgate behind an icon, and expect it to sweep us to glory."

:bounce:

"All of this talk -- this chattering class-ing, gets us nowhere. Hands do. The rest of this, which all falls under "opinion leading," as in -- who can we sway with Cindy or Viggo or which narrative, or whatever, is counter-productive and is nothing more than a distraction."

I prefer the "chatter" if it is instructive, part of a process.... (and you have redeemed DU's potential for me today).

I mentioned VM because the persona he projected on Charlie Rose Friday night was note perfect. We could all take his calm, direct approach as an example of how to communicate effectively.