27,000 yr old twin babies found buried. Fundies deny existence

[ChairmanAgnostic]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/26/ancient.remains.ap/index.html


Considering that the Universe is only 6,003 yrs old, is flat, has a sun that circles around the earth, has bits of light glued on to a transparent dome, that humanity was uncivilized before their religious instruction manual was written and that the study of science, history and related subjects is blasphemous, I guess we should ignore these findings, huh?

[Avalux]

1. The devil planted them there.

To try to lead people astray - to shake belief. True believers would never fall for such a stunt. :sarcasm:

[ComerPerro]

2. Either that, or they just say that carbon dating is incorrect

[morgan2]

6. yes people should never date carbon

God only wants men and women to date.

[LondonReign2]

43. 1 man + 1 carbon date

:)

[unpossibles]

8. it's Devil-ution

:)

[dhinojosa]

3. Wow, that article said that having twins at that age would've been fatal..

Hooray for science!

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Don't you mean

horray for the devil? :eyes: :sarcasm:

[Mutley]

4. It's the carbon dating.

That there carbon dating is inaccurate. :eyes:

[Balbus]

5. Where in the article does it day the existence was denied by anyone?

Couldn't find it..:shrug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. Tain't in the article. That issue is on trial as we speak

The fundies are attacking science indirectly with their creationist spin called intel Design.

My point is that fundies actually damage our nation by feeding garbage instead of reality to kids.

[displacedtexan]

13. It's a joke... and an educated observation made by the poster.

Educated, as in "that poster reads scientific writings by actual scientists and actually retains scientifically-accurate information until a later date... such as after reading about the discovery of 27,000 year-old infants near the Danube."

Now, an English teach can diagram my run-on and fragment-laden post using centuries-old transformational grammar knowledge.

Don't mind me. I'm just in a snarky/pissy mood today.

BTW, Webster wouldn't approve of my vocabulary, either.

[ohio_liberal]

7. I'm dying to know....

I don't read the Bible. How does a Fundie come to the conclusion that the earth is 6,003 years old?

[MissMarple]

10. A couple of 17th century clergymen did the math.

The earth was created in 4004 BCE. :eyes:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_date.htm

[ohio_liberal]

11. Thanks!

Can't wait to dig into it. :D

[acmavm]

12. I had a boss once, belonged to the Missouri Synod (?) of the Babtist

Church. He said that he'd never seen anyone prove that dinosaurs ever existed. I asked him to explain the bones and fossils that have been found. He wouldn't. He thought it was all a hoax or a mistake.

We fought CONSTANTLY. It was a miracle that he didn't fire me.

[displacedtexan]

14. Are you sure that wasn't the Missouri Synod of Lutherans?

I taught a lot of those kids in Illinois.

They could frighten fish.

[sakabatou]

17. "They could frighten fish."

How so?

[displacedtexan]

21. They always carried their Bibles with them to class...

and they were quick to beg me not to pair them with certain students (the poor ones) or put them in certain groups (with cheerleaders & jocks).

It was also difficult when they made less than A's on objective tests. This was German class. You either know what the words mean, or you don't. They would argue that it was too hard to learn the vocabulary (25 words per week, which we spent the week working on in the lessons).

"Frighten fish" is a line from a movie.

I had been used to regular old Lutherans, who were kind to everyone, sang "Crown Him King, Lord Of All," and went home for Sunday chicken dinners.

[acmavm]

25. Nope. I may be wrong about the synod part, but he wa pure Baptist

.

[Craig3410]

29. I don't think he could.

Isn't there a law that makes it illegal to fire someone on the basis of religion?

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Oh good grief!

The Bible does mention dinosaur's. They just aren't called dinosaurs. Job chapter forty mentions the description of dinosaurs without calling them it. Dinosaur comes from the Greek word dinosauria, which means "large or terrible lizard". In the old days dinosaurs were probably more than likely called dragons which is mentioned in Revelation chapter twelve. So where the fundies get the idea that dinosaurs don't exist from the Bible I don't understand. It's clearly there if they actually read and study it.

[Ediacara]

44. you surely must be joking

right?

[Dorian Gray]

42. Missouri Synod is Lutheran.

Are the Lutherans creationists?

[youthere]

45. Missouri Synod is...

they are fundamentalists...I was raised MS Lutheran.

[faithfulcitizen]

15. Look, just because 1 or 2 Christians say something, doesn't mean...

it's representative of all of us. I believe in science and because I do, I am in even more awe of what God has created. I've never believed the Earth is 6003 years old, and I've never met a Christian that does. Oh, and btw, I've also never met a Christian who *didn't* believe in dinosaurs. :eyes:

[MildyRules]

18. I have

The love of my life in High School and College. She was Missouri Synod Lutheran (see some of the above posts). She believed that fossils were God's way of testing us, and that dinosaurs never existed.

[ret5hd]

33. that god is quite the trickster, isn't he?

he sets up a really really good practical joke (haha, let's see what i can make these stupid humans believe)...AND THEN sends all those who fall for his little prank to the eternal torture pit.

yeah, that god is quite the trickster alright.

[LondonReign2]

48. Apparently he also delights in giving...

..folks incurrable diseases, requiring them to pray that He save them, then letting them die anyway.

Man, he is hilarious.

[MildyRules]

51. Where do you find this requirement?

"...requiring them to pray that He save them..." I'm an atheist, but I don't think that any one's God requires them to pray that he save them.

[MissMarple]

19. Well, I have personal knowledge of people in Missouri who do and don't.

Many Pentecostal, Assembly of God, and random bible churches led be self proclaimed preachers are quite sure the earth is quite new and the dinosaur bones are all fakes. Honest. Science is a bad word for them, they know what they know is true because the Bible tells them so.

I saw a bumper sticker in southern Virginia that said (paraphrase), fish don't have feet, it's not in the Bible. This was just after our visit to the Smithsonian IMAX's showing of a film on the Galapagos Islands. And, yes, there is a type fish with feet in the ocean there.

Most of them have no idea what the Bible says, they just let their preachers tell them and take those manufactured "facts" and proclamations as truth. That is why they are such easy prey for the politicians.

[ohio_liberal]

22. You are so right

I get most of my biblical information here and via Google. I read the Bible way back in the day and haven't been interested in it since, so my knowledge and recollection is limited. That said, I have a Fundie neighbor (and I don't toss that word around lightly) who has no idea what the Bible says beyond the passages read in church on Sundays. I think I remember more than she ever read.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Are they sure the Bible tells them so

or is it what they've been told the Bible tells them?? How could some Christians believe in it (like myself) and some believe they're fake etc? And I definitley agree that a lot of the fundies just blindfully follow everything their preacher(s) tells them and from their church they were brought up in. I was brought up in the church and in a Christian home but I was always taught to have independent thinking and study in school and everything and have read science and my Bible through and through and half the things the fundies say I don't understand or get how they get it.

[MissMarple]

46. From what I can see, they believe what they are told, and think the Bible

actually says it. They don't have to go to all the effort of actually reading the Bible, especially the New Testament, and if they do, they cherry pick passages that may support a preconceived "belief". All the passages from Jesus on how we should conduct our everyday lives and our interactions with our fellow men, well..., I don't know how they deal with that. It is a massive effort of cognitive dissonance.

Southern ministers did this to justify slavery, but only of black people.

[Bryn]

40. I've always believed that preachers are actually salesmen

and "business owners" who don't have to pay taxes as well as politicans. MOST OF THEM ARE AND they on TV even have a look of a used car salesman. There are very few that are truly a spiritual leader.

Pat Robertson has a look of a CEO, diamond salesman, a business man who wants POWER and is money mad and so VERY Politican, he wants to control us all.

[LondonReign2]

49. Jeebus!

Moelcular biology isn't in the Bible either; do they refuse to get immunizations?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. There are a large amount of them here, NC, SC and Florida

I've run into them quite often.
Some of the worst are the home-schoolers. Any possible chance of reality is eclipsed by their early and often washing, rinsing and drying of braincells.

Actually, looking back in time, I am amazed how well organized the fundie attack on education has been.

About 15-20 yrs ago, they began their fool court press on vouchers, proclaiming that public schools were so bad that the only way to fix them was to provide competition. (and to starve them of $$$$ that would disappear with the vouchers) Funny, they forgot to mention that the vast majority of the private school systems were extremely religious in nature. To their surprise, minorities and families near the poverty line did not buy this line of crap, and the voucher arguments eventually died off.

They (the fundies) then began a direct assault on school books and cirricula. Centered in Texas, they managed to take over the decision-making over what would be included in public school texts. More and more, they limited real science and expanded on more preferable and religiously acceptable articles, subjects and data. Because Texas was such a huge purchaser of school texts, what they decided usually ended up controlling the rest of the country's texts. This travesty continues to this day.

But, for the worst of the ultra-right religious groups, even this was not enough. They decided that a frontal assault would lose, even with Clarence, Antonin and others on the bench, so they concocted Intelligent Disease, a transparent effort to inject religious beliefs into what used to be science classes.

That brings us almost to the present. But, do not think that they have lost their battle. To the contrary, by every standard, US students are worse educated, less knowledgeable and more apt to believe faux religious beliefs in lieu of hard science. Japanese kids who come here with their families are shocked; many euro businessmen opt for leaving their kids in their old countries because of the poor state of science and math teaching here.

leave it to this administration to use disasters and horrible events to further their evil goals. In particular, General John Ashcroft.

We used to have a thriving import of the top students from around the world. John Ashcroft quickly put a stop to that - and with it, deliberately destroyed a stream of highly educated, well-trained grad students who could have salvaged the damage done in undergrad classes. Asscroft succeeded, though and I doubt that our grad schools will ever recover.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Exactly

At my church in the college class once we had a discussion on dinosaurs and showed how they existed in the early days. I don't know where they got the idea of the Earth's date from either. :shrug:

[genieroze]

16. Carbon dating is science therefore the devil. The earth was made by

our Lord no more then 6,000 years ago 7,000 tops.
:sarcasm:

[YouthInAsia]

20. were they fetuses?

[Ezlivin]

24. We'll fly Dr. Frist out to check on it. (N/T)

[geniph]

56. He should be able to tell from a picture

After all, he can tell from a photograph the state of someone's higher cognitive functions...

[Ilsa]

26. The stupidest argument they teach:

"It's what I believe, so how can you say I'm wrong?"

I usually say something in reply like, "So if I told you that I believed the world was flat, that would make it true?" After their facial expression is shocked then vacant, I simply remind them that it is possible to believe in something that is in error, and that it has been done for centuries. I mention it is okay to own your feelings; but truth must be acknowledged when proven.

I know plenty of people around here that believe in a 6,000 year old Earth. Only 6,000 years.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. That's really, really scary. n/t

[Graf Orlok]

34. As a geology major in college, it sickens me...

when some dumbass says the world is only 6,000 years old.

When we were studying limestones intensively in my Caves class, my professor told us different theories on how limestone is deposited. One theory he brought up (for us to make fun of) was that some people think all the limestone around the world was deposited during the Great Flood. Yes, hundreds of feet thick of limestone was deposited in 40 days, according to some! For those of you unaware, it takes thousands of years just to get a few feet of limestone deposited. Imagine how long it'd take to get hundreds of feet thick of limestone to deposit!

Their ignorance really does sadden me.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Of course

I still don't understand where they get that figure. :shrug: Does anybody here know?

[Ilsa]

52. Totalling various Biblical events, stacking dates of kings' reigns, etc.

They keep correcting things like Christ's date of birth, etc every dozen years or so.

[LibertyLover]

54. 6,000 years old

In the 17th century, Bishop James Usher (1581-1656) Archbishop of Armagh (Church of Ireland), calculated the supposed age of the Earth using the Bible, arriving at a creation date of 4004 BC. He arrived at that year by counting back the number of generations from Christ to Adam, using the genealogical texts, and multiplying them by a number also derived from the Bible. Somewhere in the Old Testament it says that to God a generation is as X number of years. Hope that helps.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

27. ROFL

:rofl::rofl:

Damn Fundies.

"But Mama, SATAN planted them there!"

:rofl::rofl:

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Aw

How sad. :( One question. How could they have been members of society if birthing twins then was difficult and they died at birth? :shrug: And I never really get where the fundies get their number(s) for the Earth. I don't recall in the Bible any specific number(s). I might have just missed them though. :shrug: Anybody here know their Bible where it states? :shrug:

[sweetheart]

31. God created the babies too

To fool people in to thinking the world was older, so that they would
not be so upset at being merely created in 7 days.

But now that the truth is coming out, since god created carbon dating,
obviously, the decay rates were set by god to fool scientific minds in
to thinking they were smarter than god. This way, they would suffer
in the isolation of their egotism and after enough suffering perhaps,
would set down their denial and come home to the truth, that god
created the universe in 7 days, and that they are helpless to the facts!

:-)

[FreedomAngel82]

41. One thing with me

is the Bible doesn't mention if it's the days we know or what. It just says "days". To a person who is a spirit and not on this plane one day can feel like a whole lifetime. God is above time and space as well. So was God going by the timeframe that God knows or that I know? Our plane/dimension is the only one with any sort of time. :shrug: So perhaps what is a day for us was a year or lifetime for God. :shrug:

[raysr]

39. Well now,

that might be an interesting topic at the "intelligent design" court case!

[FreedomAngel82]

47. I found this information that might be useful with fundies

Check it out. Of course definitley research it more yourself and don't blindly follow me. :)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_date.htm Some snip's.

Belief in a "young Earth" continued among scientists, until the early 18th century, when it became obvious to most researchers that geological processes were exceedingly slow, and must have been accomplished over incredibly long periods of time. A 5,800 year old earth simply was not possible. A hundred years later, investigators studying Egyptian found that "...civilization of Egypt began earlier than the time assigned for the creation of man." 1 :Once limited from the time constraints imposed by the young Earth concept, progress in geology and other earth scientists advanced by leaps and bounds.
bullet Most conservative groups within Christianity still follow the estimate of Dr. John Lightfoot, a 17th century Anglican clergyman. He estimated that creation occurred during 4004 BCE. Bishop James Ussher in the 17th century made the same estimate a decade later, and got almost all the credit.

Most estimates of the Earth's age, based on actual measurements and calculations, are clustered around 4.5 billion years. Scientists further believe that the earth's crust solidified about 3.9 billion years ago. Part of the universe itself are much older, dating back to the big bang, some 15 billion years ago. Such estimates are accepted by most old Earth creationists, by essentially all geologists, biologists and other earth and life scientists, and by a few Christian para-church groups, like "Reasons to Believe." :2

Also this site points out the fact that there is no recorded date that could be traced back to the Bible up until King Saul who was the first King of Israel. The Bible doesn't mention dates that the fundies are trying to prove. There's no real basis according to the Scriptures. If there is no date how do they know how old the Earth is? Did they pull the number out of their ass? This site has a lot of really good information to use with fundies if you have them around you. :)

[HamdenRice]

50. What I don't understand ...

is how they could have lived for 27,000 years and still be infants. Didn't people age back then, when people were running around with dinosaurs? I guess it's like the bible says, like didn't mathusela live to be thousands of years old?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

53. oh my

:evilgrin:

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. God is trying his damnedest to fool us by giving us brains to use.

If we just disengage our brain and have faith, we won't be fooled.

That's a foolish way to run a universe.