Ray McGovern: "Torturous Silence on Torture"

[understandinglife]

Torturous Silence on Torture

By Ray McGovern

September 27 2005

Where do American religious leaders stand on torture? Their deafening silence evokes memories of the unconscionable behavior of German church leaders in the 1930s and early 1940s.

Despite the hate whipped up by administration propagandists against those it brands "terrorists," most Americans agree that torture should not be permitted. Few seem aware, though, that although President George W. Bush says he is against torture, he has openly declared that our military and other interrogators may engage in torture "consistent with military necessity."

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By keeping their tongue-tied heads way down, our religious leaders have forfeited the moral authority with which they otherwise could speak. They end up playing the role of Hitler's Reichsbishops, who supported - or at least acquiesced in - the policies and methods of the Third Reich. Many American men and women - Jews, Christians, Muslims of Abrahamic tradition - have learned not to depend on clergy leaders who bless the Empire. The inescapable conclusion is, as popular theologian Annie Dillard reminds us, "There is only us; there never has been any other."

The question is this: Are we are up to the challenge of confronting the evil of torture, or shall we prove Patrick Henry right? Is our country about to be "lost and undone?"

Link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_092705I.shtml

As Ray McGovern stresses -- "It Is up to Us"

And, as I continue to stress -- "We The People ... Have No Clothes"

Stop being victims; start being your government. Grab that Constitution and Bill of Rights and read it and become unrelenting in taking charge and removing all the criminals as well as their enablers.


Peace.

[mike_c]

1. kicked and nominated-- that is an excellent article....

Thanks for posting!

[hiley]

2. "We The People"

Is exactly right, we have to stop this and take back our government.
I was just going to post Ray McGovern's article and found your thread.

[hiley]

3. another snip..

Torturous Silence on Torture
By Ray McGovern
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Tuesday 27 September 2005

snip---

I asked a Muslim friend recently what the Koran says about torture. After consulting an imam, she reported that the Koran does not address the subject because the Koran deals only "with human behavior." Do not we of the Judeo-Christian tradition also reject torture as inhuman and never morally permissible?

The various rationalizations for torture do not bear close scrutiny. Intelligence specialists concede that the information acquired by torture cannot be considered reliable. Our own troops are brutalized when they follow orders to brutalize. And they are exposed to much greater risk when captured. Our country becomes a pariah among nations. Above all, torture is simply wrong. It falls into the same category of evil as slavery and rape. Torture is inhuman and immoral, whether or not our bishops and rabbis can summon the courage to name it so.

It Is up to Us

By keeping their tongue-tied heads way down, our religious leaders have forfeited the moral authority with which they otherwise could speak. They end up playing the role of Hitler's Reichsbishops, who supported - or at least acquiesced in - the policies and methods of the Third Reich.

Many American men and women - Jews, Christians, Muslims of Abrahamic tradition - have learned not to depend on clergy leaders who bless the Empire. The inescapable conclusion is, as popular theologian Annie Dillard reminds us, "There is only us; there never has been any other."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_092705I.shtml

This bares repeating....

The inescapable conclusion is, as popular theologian Annie Dillard reminds us, "There is only us; there never has been any other."

[understandinglife]

4. Annie Dillard: "There is only us; there never has been any other."

That is what each person needs to realize.

For those asking, 'how can I make a difference,' the answer is simple - if you don't try, you will definitely not make a difference.


Peace.

[hiley]

5. This is exactly what I have been trying to

get through to some DUer's.
Thanks,
hiley

[hiley]

6. from Velvet Revolution...

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/Content/AdCampaign/AdCampaign2.php

[hiley]

7. "Fundamentalist bullies cannot be appeased. they must be confronted."

Reckoning with the God Squad

Fundamentalist bullies cannot be appeased. they must be confronted.

By Bill Moyers

09/25/05 "In These Times" -- -- At the Central Baptist Church in Marshall, Texas, where I was baptized in the faith, we believed in a free church in a free state. I still do.

My spiritual forbears did not take kindly to living under theocrats who embraced religious liberty for themselves but denied it to others. “Forced worship stinks in God’s nostrils,” thundered the dissenter Roger Williams as he was banished from Massachusetts for denying Puritan authority over his conscience. Baptists there were a “pitiful negligible minority” but they were agitators for freedom and therefore denounced as “incendiaries of the commonwealth” for holding to their belief in that great democracy of faith-the priesthood of all believers.

Such revolutionary ideas made the new nation with its Constitution and Bill of Rights “a haven for the cause of conscience.” No longer would “the loathsome combination of church and state”-as Thomas Jefferson described it-be the settled order. The First Amendment neither inculcates religion nor inoculates against it. Americans could be loyal to the Constitution without being hostile to God, or they could pay no heed to God without fear of being mugged by an official God Squad. It has been a remarkable arrangement that guaranteed “soul freedom.”

It is at risk now, and the fourth observance of the terrorist attacks of 9/11 is an appropriate time to think about it.

Four years ago, the poet’s prophetic metaphor became real again and “the great dark birds of history” plunged into our lives.

They came in the name of God. They came bent on murder and martyrdom.

Yes, the Koran speaks of mercy and compassion and calls for ethical living. But such passages are no match for the ferocity of instruction found there for waging war for God’s sake: “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of Evil.”(4:76)
snip--
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10389.htm

[understandinglife]

8. The reality is that we don't have rogue soldiers, we have a rogue Pentagon

They are acting on our behalf without our approval. We are their commanding officers. It is our responsibility to reign them in. Otherwise, we sanction their actions.

Now, it is your turn. You get a second chance. In 2004, we should have thrown out the men who disgraced America’s name through their false bravado and senseless torture. But it can be argued that you didn’t know. Well, now you know.

If the next time you have a chance to vote for the people who enabled this -- who allowed and condoned this -- you still vote for them, then understand this – you are voting for torture. You are voting for an ugly America that believes that might makes right. That brutal force is acceptable if we are the ones delivering it. That torture is the American way.

On this alone I would never vote for anyone in this administration, or anyone who supported their actions in Congress, ever again. I’m hoping we can reclaim America’s great name and honor. Now, it’s up to you. What kind of America do you want? What kind of America do you believe in?

From Does America Stand for Torture? by Cenk Uygur on September 27, 2005

More at the link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/does-america-stand-for-to_b_7941.html

And, here is the first response:

Dear Mr. Uygur,

Yes.

I am home on medical leave from Central Asia. All of my relatives & neighbors hold a set of beliefs that was created by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & the major media outlets of the United States.

That set of beliefs ranges from "turn that desert into glass" (nuclear bombs), "shoot every @#$% one of 'em," "by God, I'll show 'em torture," and so forth. It is the consensus that the U.S. is justified in doing anything, no limits, to punish & extract information from the terrorists. My relatives & neighbors perceive every Afghan, every Iraqui, and most Moslems as terrorists.

To the extent that the Bush administration & the military chain of command harm, injure & murder Moslem people, my relatives & neighbors approve. As you may have noticed, the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is not a problem for U.S. citizens, in general. There is no pressure on Congress to eliminate it.

The Abu Ghraib story is only a problem because of the embarrassing photos. Again, you must be able to notice that there is no voter pressure on Congress to do anything--nada, zif.

America does stand for torture. About 51.7 percent of U.S. voters are OK with anything the military does to terrorists (however loosely defined).

Only a small group of people even give a fat, round, brown rat's rump that Jose Padilla has been a prisoner for years without ever standing before a magistrate--persona non grata, a terrorist because Bu$hInc says so. And the federal courts approve.

It's over, dude.
Posted by: Walt on September 27, 2005 at 10:15am

How many more days of business-as-usual, my fellow Americans?


Peace.

[DemReadingDU]

9. Thanks U.L. great article

[RBHam]

10. The only thing torture is good for - false confessions?

They HAVE to manufacture their "Vast Islamic Conspiracy" somehow.

The Tsar's secret police used torture to get Jews to confess that the "Protocols of Zion" was a true document.

The Carlyle-Haliburton Administration banks on America's hatred for and ignorance of Islam to keep critical questions at bay.

[Nothing Without Hope]

11. Recommended. Important and excellent. Ray McGovern continues

to be a source of wise insights and valuable information.