Hugo Chavez is anti-abortion

[dhinojosa]

I still don't know why many here consider him a beacon of freedom. Disgusting. C'mon people, you know it's dangerous to give your political views fully to someone like Hugo Chavez. Why do some of you still say Viva Hugo! and Chavez for U.S. President! Is that what you want? The facts are he doesn't like abortion and is not promoting a change in Venezuela to allow safe abortions. Snap yourselves out of it.


http://www.womenonwaves.org/set-1020.245-en.html
http://www.lifecoalition.com/venezuela1.html
www.un.org/esa/population/publications/abortion/doc/venezuela.doc
http://www.ippfwhr.org/publications/serial_article_e.asp?PubID=32&SerialIssuesID=178&ArticleID=338

*************NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH******************
http://www.ogrish.com/archives/died_after_illegal_abortion_in_venezuela_May_20_2005.html
***************************************************

[Zinfandel]

1. Viva Chavez!!!! A true elected democrat by the people!!!

Walk through poor barrios in Venezuela and you’ll hear the same stories over and over. The very poor can now go to a designated home in the neighborhood to pick up a hot meal every day. The elderly have monthly pensions that allow them to live with dignity. Young people can take advantage of greatly expanded free college programs. And with 13,000 Cuban doctors spread throughout the country and reaching over half the population, the poor now have their own family doctors on call 24-hours a day—doctors who even make house calls. This heath care, including medicines, are all free.

The programs are being paid for with the income from Venezuela’s oil, which is at an all-time high. Previously, the nation’s oil wealth benefited only a small, well-connected elite who kept themselves in power for 40 years through an electoral duopoly. The vast majority in this oil-rich nation remained poor, disenfranchised, and disempowered. With the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998 on a platform of sharing the nation’s oil wealth with the poorest, all that has changed. The poor are now not only recipients of these programs, they are actively engaged in running them. They’re turning abandoned buildings into neighborhood centers, running community kitchens, volunteering to teach in the literacy programs and organizing neighborhood health brigades.

Infuriated by their loss of power, the elite have used their control over the media to blast Chavez for destroying the economy, cozying up to Fidel Castro, antagonizing the US government, expropriating private property, and governing through dictatorial rule.

[radwriter0555]

86. VIVA CHAVEZ! A man of principal, integrity and true ethic of character!

But HEY! He opposes abortion!

Hmm, don't we all oppose abortion and favor contraception?

[madokie]

98. Thank YOU, Now I could be more civil with the OP

Idealogy spoils everything :wow:

[burythehatchet]

2. Hugo Chavez speaks for me`

[castiron]

3. i don't think you can live and die by the abortion plank

i would have voted for Bush is he had been passionately in favor of doing something about global warming. Beggars and choosers at this time of crisis.

[castiron]

5. Oh, by the way, I am female and pro-choice

but I am also anti-abortion for myself as an individual

[blondeatlast]

39. Precisely--one issue politics is regressive and terribly dangerous.

I too am female and pro-choice (referencing your post below).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. Exactly. That's why it's often used as a weapon against the Left. (nt)

[Missy M]

4. Chavez is most likely a Catholic in a Catholic country....

he has the right to his beliefs. He is also a champion of the poor and trying to make a better life for them by distributing the wealth among many other reforms. Abortion is not the only issue when considering a leader. While I am Pro-Choice I do respect others beliefs.

[readmoreoften]

34. What about the beliefs of pro-choice women in Venezuela? n/t

[Charlie Brown]

93. Clearly, they'd be better off w/a right-wing dictator in power. n/t

[Charlie Brown]

91. Yes, I have respect for a lot of politicans who are pro-life

Including Robert Byrd. We should not become a single-issue party.

[Carolab]

6. Seems to me that he is pro-contraception.

Which is an appropriate position.

Howard Dean feels the same way. He is not "pro-abortion" but rather pro-responsibility. The issue isn't abortions; it's unwanted pregnancies.

[Mojambo]

7. No one is perfect

Guess I'll have to admire him for his many positive traits and condemn him for his wrong positions where appropriate.

Or is that too rational a position to take?

[dhinojosa]

9. Thank you!

That's all I am looking for.

[Zinfandel]

14. Sounds like divide & conquer, Republicans run on one issue bullshit

and idiots then vote against their own best financial interest for that one issue!

[Matariki]

8. I want John Conyers for US president,

but that's about as likely as Chavez. *sigh*

[castiron]

10. yeah, isn't it weird how the political spectrum has been so

plundered by wing-media that perfectly good American liberals like our man in Michigan are tarred as being faaaaaaaaaar left.

[Matariki]

77. wouldn't his state of the nation addresses be awesome?

[hogwyld]

11. Kucinich '08 n/t

[Qibing Zero]

15. Damn straight. nt

[Greyhound]

85. He's one of the good guys.

[chalky]

12. Hugo Chavez eats Cheetos and wipes his hands on his shirt!

Honestly, I've stayed out of the Hugo Chavez debate from the time it started, but...COME ON. This smacks of desperation, and it's not a little condescending--as if the pro-Chavez group had just latched on to the guy without having the sense to weigh the pros and cons.

[NNN0LHI]

23. I was just wondering how long until someone played the Cheetos card n/t

[Judi Lynn]

106. How could we have been so blind? Thank God for Chalky

who set us straight. Yay, CHALKY! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[David__77]

13. All in good time...

Chavez is moving in the correct direction. He must make his main task politically eliminating the old ruling sectors, destroying the power to create and influence public opinion. He must consolidate a core of support for the new order, and then he can move on these concerns. First he must extend health care to the poor, reproductive medicine can come along with these reforms.

[Jon8503]

16. Hell, you tell me what one person or candidate you are going to find that

fits every single thing you believe in. I have not found one yet.

I keep looking. I am looking for someone who really can "lead", who really can understand the problems of the minority or the poor. So far, we have no one.

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Oh no! One plank in a huge platform isn't perfectly stable!

Guess we'll have to tear down the whole thing.

[morgan2]

18. get over it

abortion isn't the largest issue facing the world. People on both sides of the issue have valid points. If you are religious and you believe in the soul and what not, then yes abortion should be seen as evil and wrong. I don't and I don't have a problem with abortion, but its such a small issue compared to things such as imperialism and corporate power.

[Zynx]

38. Indeed. The greatest issue in the world is rampant poverty.

Poverty is the indirect(sometimes the proximate) cause of virtually all problems in this world.

[castiron]

19. If working to liberate land itself from captialism's grip aint' good enuf

then darn, sister! But I hear you. It is scary, especially with our own climate in the states.

[Richard D]

20. Direct quote

"I, Hugo Chavez, am against abortion, but I cannot impose this on a country. We shall discuss the topic and give expression to all opinions."

[castiron]

22. Oh. Nice!!

[Richard D]

26. It's my viewpoint exactly

I'm nearly totally anti-abortion, yet I would never impose my views on another.

[dhinojosa]

28. Yet there is no freedom to do so in Venezuela....

aw

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. How much does that REALLY bother you?

This is the most unintentionally funny thread I've read in DU for a long time. Thank you!

[dhinojosa]

48. Unintentionally funny?

Whatever that means...

All I have a problem with is people going apeshit over Chavez. He is no prophet for democracy, and with deaths by unsafe-abortions I would think that a great democratizer would do some common good.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

50. Stop pretending you're outraged about this.

This is getting more transparent than interstellar vacuum.

[dhinojosa]

53. I am outraged...

I don't like back alley abortions.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. Then be consistent and dislike EVERY Latin American chief of state. (nt)

[dhinojosa]

62. You don't think I do?

I especially don't like the frauds claiming to love freedom.

I don't like Bush for that same particular reason. He may be pleasant like Chavez, enough so that you wanna have a beer with them. But that doesn't change the fact they are hypocrites and for that they shouldn't have total support.

You never will catch me with a Viva Bush or a Viva Chavez sticker.

;)

[Charlie Brown]

94. You don't like Bush exclusively 'cause he's pro-life?

The fact that he's jeoperdizing our civil liberties, destroying the environment, compromising religius freedom, sending US servicemen to die, exploiting wage earners, neglecting the poor, and waging illegal wars is just incidental?

Sheesh

[dhinojosa]

105. Never said that did I?

tsk tsk

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. HAH! The OP is busted by his own petard!

Quote found in a fundy site no less!

[dhinojosa]

27. I read the link and the quote, doesn't change the fact

that he hasn't done anything to curb the tide of back alley abortions.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. Give me a break

In all likelihood he'd be skinned alive (more than he already is) if he came out in favor of legalization. The country is TOO much Catholic. He's got his hands full with economic & geopolitical issues. See that little map you linked? EVERYTHING under the Rio Grande is red or pink. Too much baggage of backward culture to get rid of in a short time.

If you ask me, women's rights have a much better shot there with Chavez than with any alternative.

Bottom line - you failed.

[dhinojosa]

41. Oh the country is TOO catholic and we are TOO christian

and we have freedom of choice. Beacon of freedom my ass.

I failed? Haha. yeah way to go Batman! :sarcasm:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. I thought your OP was the height of desperation. It's not.

Trying to compare Venezuela and the USA is.

You failed again. Feel free to fill the response box with colon-sarcasm-colon tags if you like.

[1932]

37. I think this same strategy was used against Democrats in the early '70s.

I read a book a while ago -- I can't remember who wrote it -- which discussed the way the right wing drove wedges in progressive coalitions with tactics like the one you're trying to use. Throughout the 60s different progressive coalitions were able to build bridges with one another even if their focusses didn't precisely overlap. Then in the 70s corporations started financing single issue groups and exaggerated the differences between groups. I think a recent example of this is the way anti-immigration groups are trying to take over the Sierra Club. They're trying to weaken the political power of environmentalists by playing them off against civil rights and worker's rights groups.

[Mandate My Ass]

40. So if he doesn't roll up his sleeves and do one himself

he's part of the problem? He's personally against it which is a great deal different than using his power to actively prohibit it. John Kerry holds this same position, BTW.

Most Latin American countries have the same stance AFAIK, so the lack of decent providers might be beyond Chavez's ability to control.

[Zynx]

29. That's how I personally feel about it.

I am strongly opposed to the idea of abortion, but I will not impose my views on the country.

[1932]

35. Very impressive.

[Zhade]

68. Looks like you closed the book on the matter.

I couldn't care less if he's personally against abortion - that he won't impose his view on others shows him to be worth defending.

So, VIVA CHAVEZ.

[JVS]

21. By the logic I see at work here, JFK, LBJ, and FDR were also anti-abortion

[Karenina]

24. Hugo Chavez is the only world leader

I've EVER seen discussing the concerns of one of his constituents as a baby suckled at her breast. The kid quietly lunched while Mom and the Prez discussed pressing issues. Damn, I wish I'd saved that pic.

[Judi Lynn]

107. I found it. I was startled the first time I saw it. Recognized it

recently in google images. Here it is:



It seemed necessary to check the context of the event, and it quickly becomes apparent he is treating the entire experience as a perfectly ordinary moment, and is directing his conversation to the mother herself. It is a remarkable photo. No gawking. No uneasiness, embarrasment. Complete acceptance.

[Karenina]

110. Oh Judi Lynn, you're all that and a bag o'chips!

The picture speaks volumes, eh?

[cantstandbush]

30. He's a Catholic for goodness sakes. Why does it surprise anyone

that he would be anti-abortion? I would say it is in keeping with his position on helping the poor, feeding the hungry, and other "Christian-like" positions. He's much better at it than Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. He isn't even THAT much anti-abortion

See post #20.

[1932]

31. This is so pathetic. This should be a lesson in why you need to look at

the whole candidate and not any single issue.

Do you think all those women in the barrios would be better with a fascist running Venezuela (presuming the opposition even were for abortion rights)?

[devilgrrl]

32. Gee! If that isn't grounds to invade Venezuela I don't know what is!

:sarcasm:

Lech Walensa of Poland is anti-choice. Should we invade them too?

This is disruptive flamebait.

[patdem]

42. Most women do not WANT abortions..but poverty forces it upon them

SEE the abortion rates during the Clinton era.vs bush**....and tell me that being anti abortion..and anti poverty cannot meld?

[dhinojosa]

44. Unfortunately that is false....

http://www.factcheck.org/article330.html

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. WHOA! Right-wing site!

ALL of this site's "fact-chacks" are to defend RW politicians!

[dhinojosa]

57. Jesus F'n Christ.

It defended Kerry many times during the election so much so that I was able to counter my RW accountant on many issues.

Are you sure you are not saying that to justify any of your arguments? I like factcheck.org, they also leave references so that you can go look for information yourself.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

59. I invite everybody here to look at the site's front page

and judge for themselves.

[dhinojosa]

64. OH GOD NO! A QUOTE FROM PATRICK MOYNIHAN!!!!!!!!!

Curse my eyes, CURSE THEM TO HELL!!!!!!!

[jmm]

56. That study isn't much better than the one it tries to refute

and it fails to acknowledge any other studies on the subject.

[dhinojosa]

58. Well, you got some other studies?

I am not allergic to other sources.

[Czolgosz]

66. I agree. And -- factcheck notwithstanding -- Hillary was careful and

correct. What Hillary and many Democrats have said is that, while the data is still coming in, we can already conclude the the abortion rate fell dramatically during the pro-choice Clinton administration and leveled off nationally and began to climb in some states during the anti-choice Bush badministration. The data collected to date confirms this; it doesn't refute it.

Also, the abortion rate in Holland, with expansive reproductive freedom, is lowest; in the US with limited reproductive freedom, it's moderate; and in the intolerant parts of South America without reproductive freedoms (which isn't just Venezuela -- it's most of South America), the abortion rate is through the roof.

In addition to being intolerant of other's freedoms, outlawing abortions is ineffective at reducing abortions.

[readmoreoften]

72. Oh here we go. Most women I know wanted abortions.

Actually, they wanted to not be pregnant in the first place. But, barring that, they wanted abortions.

[zippy890]

45. Viva Hugo!

I think its great he's socialist, he's taking on bush and he also happens to be president of a very catholic country.

Oh Condi, what to do! He is SO popular with his people, and powerful with all that oil and he has the audacity, the... the..nerve to talk about jesus being a revolutionary.

How's a neocon secretary of state supposed to discredit him?

[Czolgosz]

82. Shhhh! Quiet about Socialism or the anti-ANSWER people will post here!

[mtnsnake]

46. My best friend's wife is anti-abortion

and she's a great Democrat and a caring person who ANYONE would love.

This is so ridiculous that someone has to fit 100% into someone's personal mold of perfection or they're no good at all.

[readmoreoften]

74. Nope, if you don't support my physical health and safety

I can't play on your team. I understand that it may not be a political battle that Chavez can play. But let's be serious-- it's not okay. It's not a trivial issue.

To say that Venezuelan women don't deserve reproductive freedom because --What? Seventy percent of their female citizens don't want it?-- is basically saying that Venezuelan women of childbearing age are less human and less relevant than U.S. women.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Venezuela's positions on abortion are Venezuela's to work out,

not mine. My top concern is perserving reproductive freedom in this country. I think if the Venezuelans are concerned about reproductive freedom in their country, they should fight for it themselves.

As for me, I haven't given my political views to Chavez. I just happen to think that this country needs to respect other countries sovereignty and that extends to Venezuela. At any rate, being anti abortion is hardly an unusual phenomenon in Latin American countries.

I definitely don't think I've ever seen anyone here promoting Chavez for US President. He's not exactly eligible now is he? I'm not going to start worrying about it unless the Schwartzenegger amendment passes. Even then, I suspect that threats to our own reproductive freedom will come from much closer to home.

[Darranar]

51. Do you seriously think the opposition will change that? n/t

[Cha]

55. Course he is! Is the Pope

Catholic? I wonder if he's for birth control, family planning..safe sex?

I still like him.

[Mr_Spock]

61. So are many Democrats.

What exactly is the point? The talk is just talk - at least he criticizes Bush better than most all Dems will!

[0rganism]

63. The simple fact that he hasn't imposed his viewpoint on the country

runs counter to the criticisms that paint him to be a totalitarian tyrant.

If he were the dictator that our rightist friends like to claim he is, he'd just say, "No more abortions ever," and enforce it at gunpoint.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. EGG-ZACKTLY! You nailed it! (nt)

[dhinojosa]

69. it's already been imposed for him. nt

[alittlelark]

87. By the 90% or so of the Catholics in Venezuela?

Democracy is what it is. I would hazard to guess that if a Venezuelan woman wants an abortion she would still have access to 'the old methods'. Goldenrod tea works wonders, and there are MANY other herbal preparations which, when ingested, will abort an early pregnancy.

With our Allopathic medicine we are only able to turn it into a surgical procedure.

[LoZoccolo]

67. Both sides of this debate really have no bearing on anything.

1. Hugo Chavez is the leader of another country, and will never be the leader of this one, so whether or not you "support" him is pretty irrelevant.
2. It is hard to find someone who doesn't agree with you on some point. It is easy to find people you admire a lot for one thing and gloss over what you don't like.
3. This whole thing is just people fighting over what they like on an Internet message board to begin with. They might as well be fighting over one band playing better music than the other.

[LoZoccolo]

75. Oops.

I meant "hard to find someone who doesn't disagree with you".

[OnionPatch]

70. So this doesn't bother me, sorry.

This doesn't change my opinion about him. Aren't there many Catholics in Venezuela? If so, this belief would be pretty ingrained in them. The belief that abortion is the murder of an innocent life stems from good intentions in most people. (Not counting controlling, manipulative misogynists.) In short, I think the abortion argument has valid points on both sides. There are a lot of other issues that would quickly change my opinion of him depending on where he stood, but this isn't one of them.

[CatBoreal]

71. Oh Puh-lease...

Hugo Chavez is doing more to prevent back-alley abortions than any other world leader out there.

How?

He's giving the poor a shot. He's providing them with food, health care, education, jobs and housing. In other words, he's giving these women and these families hope for their future.

When you are not desperate, you're not going to have an abortion, back-alley or otherwise.

VIVA CHAVEZ!

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DerekG]

76. Why is the pro-life stance the only one we can't forgive?

Seriously, most of us will bend over backwards trying to defend Democratic politicians who have clearly sold their souls to Mammon and Moloch, but if we discover that an actual progressive like Dennis Kucinich was even vaguely pro-life once upon a time, we unsheathe the swords.

I can't even sleep at night knowing I live on the f---ing Death Star. Why should I care if the most strident anti-imperialist of the 21st century has a moral aversion to abortion?

[Scout]

81. because if a woman is forced to be a breeder

against her will, then NOTHING else matters. If I don't have control over what happens to my own body, then all the other civil, legal, constitutional and human rights don't matter.

Treating a woman like chattel, like an incubator, like a slave is just despicable, and anyone who will allow that to happen, even if not actively supporting it, just does not deserve my support.

I AM NOT AN INCUBATOR!

kapeesh?

[DerekG]

100. Alas, other issues do take precedence over abortion politics

--The Iraq War, and the 100,000+ lives extinguished in said "affair," takes precedence.

--The monstrous repercussions of Truman's national security state--which continues to haunt the world today--casts a far greater shadow.

--Global warming and peak oil are of greater importance.

I will defend your right not to be an incubator, but it is insulting to suggest that the pro-choice/pro-life battle is tantamount to those involving war and peace, or environmentalism and ecocide.

[Scout]

103. it is insulting to be told your right to your own body...

is not very important....

[DerekG]

112. Google "Fallujah" and take a look at our handiwork

Then come back and scold me for not placing the abortion debate and the razing of the Middle East on equal ground. You also might want to check out the pictures of civilians who have been torn asunder by cluster bombs (courtesy of our Nintendo pilots); or the effects depleted uranium has on infants and the young; or read the reports of Iraqis who have been raped and tortured in our prisons.

Do this, pretty please. And then give me the riot act.

[Scout]

114. honey, you have been very sheltered if you think

anyone on here has given you the riot act.

The right to control my own body is a HUMAN right, right up there with the right to life of the Iraqi's.

I don't need your condescending tripe.

Pretty please, my ass.

[DerekG]

115. Consider the "pretty please" a trade off for your "kapeesh"

Everyone here agrees that reproductive freedom is a human right; but I do insist on keeping things in perspective, and I most certainly will not disparage a democratic socialist because of his personal views on such matters.

[ElectroPrincess]

84. If women truly had coices, they would choose to PREVENT

pregnancy. Don't go there please? This is NOT about pro or anti abortion.

This is about giving teens and women education and the means to make family planning choices that will benefit THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.

[DerekG]

111. FYI, I'm pro-choice, so I don't need the nuances explained to me

But don't expect me to hop on the "Chavez-is-a-charlatan" bandwagon. He is the best hope for Latin America.

[DerekG]

116. Believe me when I say I want the same things as you

Economic justice and education are indeed the two bulwarks; but Chavez is making enormous strides in respect to the former. And while other things are not improving as swiftly we'd like, I think it would serve us well to remember just how long Venezuela was ensnared by the the oligarchs and the Church (and still is, really).

As cavalier as I sound, I do in fact balk at the ignominies and barbarities that come with criminalized abortion (and its social stigma).

Just understand that my eye is on World War III.

[pitohui]

78. check yr map

whatever his personal beliefs may be, and i have no idea, it is a political reality of his part of the world that abortion is considered a mortal sin

he isn't hugo chavez, dictator for life, he is elected to this office & that is the majority opinion in his part of the world

[Redstone]

79. So?

Redstone

[eggman67]

80. Wow

And I got the crap kicked out of me here for supporting Bob Casey in PA.

[ElectroPrincess]

83. Hey I'm about as liberal as they come and yes, I'm pro-life

Personally, I'm NOT for either abortion nor execution. However (and this is BIG), I do NOT choose to *force* my personal beliefs on society. As a liberal Catholic, I only wish to live by example and hope to have a good influence on those around me. Nothing more, nothing less.

Please try to understand that NOT all pro-life liberals (some Catholics included) want to take away a woman's right to choose.

That is not true.

[Zynx]

96. You sound very much like me.

Those are my exact positions.

[electricray]

88. I don't know one person who is pro-abortion.

If anyone has ever had to go through the decision making process with a loved one (I haven't but have first-hand knowledge of one who has) they know that no matter what, an abortion is not a positive decision. Unfortunately we live in a society where options for pregnant women without support (financially, emotionally, etc) are scarce. The decision may be the lesser of two awful choices, but to simply write off a progressive, power-to-the-people leader like Chavez becuase he views it as an awful procedure is un-wise. Chavez does believe that all people should have options and perhaps if he did not live in a Catholic nation he might be politically inclined to change his stance to safe, legal, and rare.

[Liberal In Texas]

89. Great. Another tiresome debate about a liberal who doesn't walk in

lock-step with EVERY belief you have.

Admire him for the things he DOES stand for. Oppose those thing you disagree with, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

This is some of the same rhetoric I see about Galloway. Or Clinton. Or Biden. Or Cindy. Or...you name it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

90. Abortion is illegal in most Latin American countries

What's your point?

[Charlie Brown]

92. Guys, Robert Byrd is also pro-life

and he gets nothing but praise here. Don't beat up on Hugo for feeling the same way as a lot of US Democrats.

[tx_dem41]

95. Its sad how many people on this thread will gladly sellout because

of your hatred for * . Doesn't say much for the depth of your principles in my opinion. And, from the stunning spinning going on in this thread, there appear to be many KKKarl worshippers around here.

You have learned well, grasshoppers. Praise to KKKarl! :eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

97. What an interesting set of links!

Numbers 1, 3 & 4 don't mention Chavez at all.

Number 2 is a crappily done "pro-life" site. (Caution: A tacky version of "Jesus Loves the Little Children" will greet you.)

I'm squeamish, so I didn't click on the last link. But the splash screen for www.ogrish.com bears this warning: "OGRISH.COM is a website featuring uncensored events including: beheading videos, execution images, accident pictures, gruesome scenes from Iraq etc. We are legally represented by FirstAmendment.com."

You really need to try harder.

[K-W]

99. Non-Sequitur. EOM

[Binka]

101. edit

[RedCloud]

102. Duro Chávez. ¡No Joda!

Arepas! Cachapas! Los criollos. Energía para los pobres.

He has a lot going for him.

[goodhue]

104. Of course he is, as are most South American leaders

[Fla Dem]

108. You can be anti-abortion, but pro-choice.

I personnaly do not believe in abortion, but I would never put myself in another woman's shoes and deny her the right to have one.

[Judi Lynn]

109. Nice try! Great idea. Smooth. You're too quick for us. n/t

[H2O Man]

113. But-but-but ....

What if Bush puts him on the Supremely Court and he outlaws Roe v Wade? We have to turn against him! It's the only way!

Did you know he did not vote to make King's birthday a holiday?

He donated to David Dukes, the KKK, and enjoys the remake of The Dukes of Hazard?

He has a huge collection of Spiro Agnew's poems?

Now, do you STILL blindly love this dictator?

[True American]

117. What you should know

Have you read the Sibel Edmond's story. I never know about this story until today. I urge everyone to read this story about the Bush Cover up. The Aurthur is Real Time.

Post a reply to Real Time in order to keep this story front and centered.

The Truth will prevail.


True American.