*CRAZY* fundamentalist *HELP* please, PLEASE * need info

[electricray]

PLEASE help me respond to this email I got from a crazy fundamentalist (THANK YOU):


Yes, I don't like this war either! But you must look at the big picture.
This war is not just for us today or tomorrow, it is for generations to
come. It isn't just about Iraq. There are much deeper spiritual issues
involved. We can not play nice with nations that want to wipe us as well as
Israel off the face of the earth. We can't be an isolationist country.

After 9/11, we had to draw a line in the sand and Iraq is that line. If we
left Iraq now, civil war would break out and Iran with their nuclear
aspiration would intervene and end up controlling Iraq and become even
stronger. My whole adult life, Iran (Persia) has been a treat to America
(Christianity). The Shaw of Iran was booted out during my early twenties
and Iran was taken over by the radical Islamic leaders.

Right now democracy has Iran surrounded, Iraq on one side and Afganistan on
the other. Our presents there is somewhat a controlling influence on Iran.
At least, we have more possibilities to keep an eye on them. Why do you
think that Iran is one of the main supporters of the terrorists in Iraq?

I don't want anymore soldiers to die or even be hurt in anyway. But think,
why do we have soldiers? We were attacked - 3,000+ people died in ONE DAY
because we ignored and tried to appease nations who support and encourage
terrorist that want YOU and ME dead. America has to stand up and say to the
muslim nations as well as the world ---- "We aren't going to allow you to
annihilate us ------- Your goal to rid the world of Christian Infidels stops
now!"

This is not anything new. Read the Old Testament! Muslims (Ishmaelite)
have always tried to do away with the Jewish people. Judaism is a spiritual
race not a nationality. According to the New Testament, Christians have
become the true Jews because of our faith and the Hebrews rejection of that
faith. Thus radical Muslims not only want the Hebrew Jews annihilated but
the Christian Jews too! They have been blinded by generations of hate,
going back to the time when Hagar had to take Ishmael and runaway. To you
and me, we can't understand such a hatred. Why????????? How could anyone
hate that deeply? It is spiritual ----- a battle being waged in spiritual
realms!

God told Israel may time to go in an kill all her enemies, every last one of
them and take their land and possessions. Hard???????? I read the Old
Testament and think WOW what is that all about. God requiring Israel to
slaughter all those people. He knew that if they let the enemy live it
would come back to bite Israel and it has several times even now! It is a
spiritual war we are in as well as a physical war. Look at the 7 day war
when the Muslim nations ganged up and went after one little nation, Israel.
Why? And the world sat back and did nothing but God didn't. Israel was
attacked by an overwhelming number but Israel won and even pushed the Muslim
nations even further back thus the land in question and being fought over
today.

This war is spiritual. I'll always be for fighting for the safety and well
being of God's people be it Hebrew or American.

I would ask you to do some research and not just look at the surface of what
is going on and what the press says. There is more to this battle than is
meeting your eye. Read the Old Testament and look back in the history of
Israel as well as America and the church. We are not fighting against flesh
and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[donco6]

1. Why bother?

If someone is dumb enough not to know Shah versus Shaw and presence in place of presents - it's jut not worth the time.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Exactly. Comeback is: "You fell like a sucker for that BS?" Let them fume!

[cynatnite]

2. For one thing...the Shah of Iran was a murderer and tyrant

The rest of the diatribe sounds more like a christian extremist who believes in the whole good vs. evil with muslims as the evil. This person also is probably a major rapture believer.

I wouldn't even try to refute it because people like this cannot be reasoned with, IMO.

[Der Blaue Engel]

3. Why do you want to argue with a crazy fundamentalist?

Seriously...I don't get why people a) talk to these turds, b) think they can talk any sense into them at all. They're a lost cause. You'll never convince them that they're wrong, because they don't need reality.

:shrug:

[central scrutinizer]

9. my sister is one and it is a waste of time

she sends me shit like this and when I can quickly refute it by sending her the link to Snopes of some other debunking site, she falls back onto her standard response - "oh well, the Lord Jesus Christ will just sort it all out when he comes back" sort of like the e-mail equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and humming real loud.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

103. "The Lord Jesus Christ

would puke."

:puke:

[electricray]

18. Partly because it's family...and partly because it's fun

And partly because it shuts them up for a little while. I gotta keep my sanity, ya know? When I zing 'em real good I don't have to listen to their "crazy" for a while. Gives me some peace & quiet.
Thanks for your help!

[PassingFair]

4. OMFG!

For once, I am speechless...

[democracyindanger]

5. Christian Jews?

I think the best answer would be, "You're an idiot."

[JanusAscending]

39. Believe it or not!

But there is a sect of Jewish people who have accepted Christ as their Messiah. They call themselves Completed Jews! Look it up on google if you doubt me. I'm wondering if the so called "fundie" is one of them?

[electricray]

42. nope, she's Evangelical Baptist n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

104. Good Gosh...

[FreedomAngel82]

53. They're two different religions

You're called a Christian because you've believed in Christ's teachings and that he existed and is the son of God and then you're baptized and that is when you become a Christian and a member of God's kingdom and Christ's church. Where in the world do they get this Christian Jew crap?

[JanusAscending]

64. That'a just the way it is.

Do you think that a Jewish person CAN'T accept Christ? What hope would you hold out for others than? Christ Himself was a Jew. In mho, anyone can accept Christ! Even a Muslim. You know there are Christian Churches in Iraq, right?

[Book Lover]

102. Please get some education

http://jewsforjudaism.com/

[JanusAscending]

116. Excuse me ? Gee, I thought I was pretty well educated !

Can you show me where I fall short in your eyes? What was it I said? Do you always HIT AND RUN? I read the thread in your post and found it totally irrelevant to the conversation. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand something I said?

[knitter4democracy]

83. It's an old teaching of the Church.

The Church has always taught that Christians are the remnant, the ones who truly believe in what the Bible and all of faith and prophecy really were about. That's one reason why Christians have persecuted Jews, believing them to be lost anyways. That was a seriously wrong teaching, but that's the thinking behind it.

Remember, early on, Christianity was a sect within Judaism. Most of the early believers were Jews, and many of the early arguments and disagreements concerned just how much to accept non-Jews or just how much of the Jewish law and culture we should keep.

It's odd to hear it from a Baptist, though.

[democracyindanger]

96. I believe it. I've seen Jews for Jesus

minivans over the years. But I think they're idiots too. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

52. Yep

There's no such thing. They're either Christians or Jews. You can't be both I don't think.

[JanusAscending]

72. I think we're misunderstanding each other here!

When I refer to a jewish person, I'm talking more about the persons nationality than their religion. ...I know....there is really no jewish nationality, unless they live in Israel. That's a whole other topic, and I don't want to get into that one now. But, as you know, the jewish faith believes that Jesus was (at the least) a prophet. They are still waiting for their Messiah. Those that refer to themselves a Completed Jews, have accepted Christ as their Messiah, just as any one of us would. They even go "down to the river " to be baptized. Sorry! sent it to the wrong person. Meant for #5

[kestrel91316]

117. Messianic Jews, aka Jews for Jesus, DO exist.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Never have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

[Carolab]

7. Tell them this is between the Jews and the Muslims.

America's mistake was getting in between the two of them.

[Jo March]

8. Okay, take a deep breath and realize what this person is doing

Using the Bible to further her/his own agenda. The Klan does that type of stuff.

Edited to add: This person obviously calls him/herself a Christian. So, when you reply you have to reply with the actual words of Christ:

Jesus is the Prince of Peace. Jesus said for us to put away our swords even as He was about to be arrested and taken to certain death - certain death! - He would not allow His disciples to defend Him with violence. Jesus tells us to love our enemies. He tells us that if someone strikes us, then we are to turn the other cheek to them. He says, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they are the children of God."

Last but not least, say this, "Do you believe that Jesus Christ, your professed savior, would say to you, 'Destroy all nations.'? No, He would not. You say to read the Old Testament. I tell you to read the New Testament and the teachings of the Savior. Your Savior tells you NOT to wage this war. Are your fears and prejudices so large that you think you can disregard the teachings of Jesus? If so, then I will pray that you can understand what the true teachings of Jesus mean. The path that you are taking is one of hatred and vengeance. This path can only lead to Hell."

You have to fight back but with the right words. It may or may not work but please don't allow those ramblings to go unchallenged.

If you need the verses, I will supply them to you.

[electricray]

21. verses, yes, please! nt

[Jo March]

23. Okay - hang on a sec! nt

[Jo March]

30. Verses - here you are!

I believe in giving them the benefit of the doubt but some folks like to twist the teachings of the Bible for their own benefit.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (From the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus made a lot of very liberal comments!)

Proverbs 6:16 These six doth the LORD hate: yea, seven an abomination unto him: Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, Pro 6:19 A false witness speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Matthew 26.51-52
Then they came up and laid hands upon Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword."


Matthew 5.38-41
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.

Those should get you started. I can supply more because Jesus was quite the pacifist.

[electricray]

36. THANKS! nt

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Ooo very good!

[Mr_Spock]

10. Just hand them a gun.

Let them take themselves out of our misery.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. LOLOL............

"Let them take themselves out of our misery."

For some reason, I find that hilarious and oh so true!!!! Thanks for the MUCH needed chuckle.....:pals:

[Mr_Spock]

28. I have trouble taking the fundies very seriously

Does it show? :rofl:

[OneGrassRoot]

35. me, too........and they're all around me........

I lost it the other day in the grocery store, when the cashier (in a major chain) was preaching and spewing forth crap, blah, blah, blah.

I said, "For Christ's sake, can't we go ahead and have the friggin Rapture already and get you people the hell off this planet?!!!"


Several things in that sentence caused her head to spin around....lol.....and I was nearly tarred and feathered, but it felt soooo good......:rofl:

[castiron]

43. No you DIDN'T

I pray to the Lord himself for the courage and fortitude to pull that shit off some day, just ONCE. I'm surrounded by the fucks. There's the one at the Post Office who ends every transaction with God Bless. What might be a good response?

[electricray]

45. naw, leave that one alone

There's a guy at the gas station that holds his hand up and says a little prayer to "bless" my car after he fills 'er up for me. Hey, I paid for a tank & got a free blessing? *laughing* cool. Nah, not going to go off on that. He's harmless. Post office guy is probably harmless too. Save it for the big incidents. Bravo on the grocery store.

[OneGrassRoot]

50. I agree with electricray............

probably would leave the "God bless" alone, UNLESS it's part of a conversion "let us save your soul" speech.

When they do that, I reply and say I will pray with them to their lord. Then say (as I think many have learned to do) "Please, Jesus, save me from your followers."

Picturing the guy blessing the car cracked me up. Though, again, if that's all he was doing, no harm done....

*sighs*.......what a world, eh?

My love of profanity has only been enhanced by being surrounded by Bible thumping freepers...... :evilgrin:

[electricray]

61. Sadly...

he doesn't work there anymore. I actually kind of miss my free blessings! ;) Now I feel a little cheated with just a plain 'ol boring tank of gas!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

106. Bible HUMPING freeps, you mean...

:evilgrin:

[chalky]

60. Response to a throwaway "God Bless"? Tell them to stop using the Lord's

name in vain, since they obviously don't mean it.

[FreedomAngel82]

66. When that happens just to see their reaction

I would say "blessed be." LOL. I say "God bless" but if I don't know what religion someone else is then I don't.

[Canuckistanian]

71. Ask them if they'd bless your package of condoms

Just for luck, you know....

[electricray]

74. Well, if buying gas got my car blessed...

Then buying condoms would probably get my **** blessed. Don't want this dude waving his hand around there.

[OneGrassRoot]

79. LMAO!!!!

I've gotta get some sponges sent from Canada and have them blessed.......O8)

Hey, isn't the sponge supposed to be available in the States by now?

Sorry to the original poster....this took a wrong turn.....;-)

[electricray]

81. I need to start a shop for that

[WritingIsMyReligion]

107. ROFL nt

[Beaverhausen]

11. This person thinks democracy exists in Iraq and Afghanistan?

There is just no reasoning with some people. I say don't even bother.

[Jo March]

16. My fav: "Iran (Persia) has been a treat to America (Christianity)"

There are just so many things wrong in that one sentence that it takes my breath away!!

:rofl:

[Beaverhausen]

19. Don't forget about "the Shaw" being booted out

uh...wasn't he assasinated?

[Jo March]

34. I've seen it spelled "the Shawl" before

:rofl:

[JanusAscending]

44. No.

He died a natural death here in America. His son attended Williams college in Williamstown ,Mass. while he was here in the hospital. I used to live near the school in that time period.

[Beaverhausen]

56. Oops. Thanks for correcting my horrible memory

:hi:

[SmileyBoy]

88. My observation about that one sentence:

He/she has managed to insert four incorrect statements into a sentence that has only nine words.

The Guinness people HAVE to hear about this.

[Jo March]

99. Bwahahahahaha!

:rofl:

[stlsaxman]

89. That one got me too!

I repeated it to myself three or four times, just for the laugh...

:rofl:

[Faygo Kid]

13. I thought we went in because Saddam had WMDs

Now I'm told we are fighting in Iraq "against the rulers of darkness of this world." I must have missed that part of Colin Powell's presentation to the UN, but it's more honest than the WMDs, that's for sure.

[Ediacara]

14. you should really combat it with a spell checker....

[kliljedahl]

17. I would just use the delete button EOM

[Sal316]

20. This is so incredibly stupid, trite, and full of misrepresentations..

...my lifespan is wayyyyyy too short to point out everywhere this person is wrong.

If they don't know that in the OT, God blessed Ishmael and promised to make him a great nation, like Isaac...then they know NOTHING!

[electricray]

27. I'm not a biblical scholar, that's why I asked for help

thank you!

[Jo March]

33. I have to fight folks like this all of the time

I'm getting way too good at it which makes me sad.

I gave you some verses and will be happy to supply more. Go get 'em with the TRUTH!!!

[cornermouse]

22. Well...

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Also.

"And the world sat back and did nothing but God didn't. Israel was attacked by an overwhelming number but Israel won and even pushed the Muslim nations even further back thus the land in question and being fought over today."

So why are we fighting for Israel? :shrug:

"I'll always be for fighting for the safety and wellbeing of God's people be it Hebrew or American."

Tell her/him to sign with the army or marines if she/he believes in it so deeply and sincerely. They (the military) are now taking a wider range of age. If I were you, I'd even offer to get her/him an application.

[greekspeak]

24. People like this make it clear why family planning is a good thing

Why refute it? It is full of nonsense, and you will never get through to them. They are more or less brain dead due to too much kool-aid and indoctrination.

[mestup]

25. "What if the rapture already happened, and none of us were chosen?"

(Or would it be none of us "was" chosen. Bad grammar day. I could ask the Shaw of Presents.)

That's the only response I'd give.

These poor people are emotionally ill.

[Alizaryn]

26. I have heard this argument and

the only response that I would have along the religious line is that being a "Christian" (in my understanding) means that one accepts the New Testament and the life of Jesus Christ. My feelings are that Christ would have asked that we lay down our guns and work toward peace and understanding. He would also have avoided judging those who disagreed with him. My belief is kinda simplistic I realize but I would like to hear someone rationalize this war as being endorsed by Christ. It would not be the Christ I know.

One can read anything they like into the Old testament including, a spacecraft visiting us in Ezekiel saw the wheel.

Christ preached peace.
Christ did not preach lies and manipulation.

[knitter4democracy]

29. Two things.

First of all, this person really doesn't want a debate. He makes it sound like he does (I'm not sure it's a guy, but this is easier, grammar-wise), but he is more interested in talking than listening. I would wait a bit longer before replying at all--wait for more chaos and more bad things to happen that might make him doubt, even a tiny bit, any of this.

Secondly, only answer back with the New Testament. He's so focused on the Old Testament that he's forgetting his faith's foundation. Ask him to name the Seven Woes and then explain how those don't apply to us today. Ask him what the two greatest commandments are and then who his neighbor is. Ask him if he knows how Samaritans were really viewed in Jesus's day (as less than dirt, as major enemies) and whom Jesus would use today for the same parable. Ask him how the Beatitudes apply to his daily life and this Global War on Terror. If he starts getting angry, leave it with asking him to re-read the Epistle of St. James. That one always opens eyes.

[castiron]

40. Wow, that's great stuff. I'm committing it to memory cuz

i live in the country of Texas where these things might be needed on a daily basis.

[knitter4democracy]

49. It's what I used in college.

My hubby and I went to Mount Vernon Nazarene College in Ohio (yeah, the one that got Kenyon's voting machines :eyes: ), and I was one of the resident liberals. I developed those answers over my time there. They work if someone's actually wanting to have a conversation and not just yell. When they want to yell, it's best to just walk away.

[castiron]

54. My cousin goes to that college.

Just one of many very religious relatives of mine. I am an Ohio native. But I went to BGSU! (uh, Go....um..Falcons?)

[knitter4democracy]

80. I'm sorry. ;-)

It's not quite as bad as when we went there in the nineties, but it's not much better. Actually, very few of our friends are still conservatives, and even fewer are still conservative Christians. It kind of beats it out of you if you question much or think critically.

Tell your cousin to take anything from Dr. Lechner (yeah, it's chemistry, but he's really good), Dr. Mahle (one of the best profs there), and to avoid Dr. Rearick at all costs (terrible prof, nice guy).

[demgurl]

31. When they are right, they are right!

"But you must look at the big picture. This war is not just for us today or tomorrow, it is for generations to come."

We are invading over there so we can guzzle gas over here. We need that gas for today and tomorrow and generations to come!

demgurl

[JanusAscending]

32. Ask this person if they've ever read the NEW TESTAMENT!!!!

They are basing all of their arguments on the Old Testament!! I would advise you not to argue with them UNLESS you can site BOOK, CHAPTER AND VERSE of the New Testament! If this person is in fact a Christian, they should know that Christs' Crucifixion and Resurrection, supersede the Old Testament Law. No longer is it an "eye for an eye" Now it is by Grace and Grace alone! Amazing, isn't it?:hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

75. That really gets to me how they use the Old Testament

Don't they know that as Christians we follow the New Testament? At my church whenever a family has a new baby born the Elders give the family a New Testament Bible. So why wouldn't they give them an Old Testament Bible? :eyes:

[electricray]

76. who follows what?

It'd be interesting to see a list somewhere of the different denominations and who follows what. Messianic Jews read & follow the NT. Which branches of Christianity follow what?

[JanusAscending]

115. You know what?

You know more about this subject than you think you know!! I have been referring to Jewish Christians as "completed jews" you got the correct term for them as Messianic Jews!! I had forgotten that. I remember one time when my Church had a month set aside for visiting missionaries. There was this short little guy, I wish I could remember his name,but I can't. Anyway, he referred to himself as "the little sawed off Jew" He was great! His field of missions was in Russia, at the time when you still had to smuggle in Bibles. He was an Orthodox Jew until he became a Christian. He considered himself BOTH !O8)

[The Stranger]

37. Fundamentalist Christian Zionism, the Right Wing, the War of Civilizations

Stop the world, I want to get off.

[electricray]

41. Zion? o/t

sorry to get off-topic, but I've been meaning to learn more about Zion. It keeps coming up.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Any possibility of rational analysis ends at

"There are much deeper spiritual issues involved."

The only appropriate responses to such drivel is:

"You're a fundamentalist crackpot. You're batshit crazy. But I repeat myself. Fuck off."

[baby_mouse]

46. Good Lord

this one's lost...

[FreedomAngel82]

47. God told Israel to kill their enemies?

Who does that sound like? They always whine and complain about the Muslim fundamentalist when they need to look in the mirror.

[Rabrrrrrr]

48. Wow! So this person has such little faith, that he actually believes

that The Church can survive only if protected by human action, and that action being war.

That's a pretty piss poor Christian if you ask me.

The Church survives and exists solely by the power of the Holy Spirit, and NOTHING can destroy it. Christ's Church will last eternally, and God is powerful enough that he/she doesn't need piddling humans to protect the Church.

What we're called to do is to love God, and love our neighbor; and leave all the other shit up to God.

[knitter4democracy]

51. Great point.

They really need a wake-up call if they believe that God can be beaten or that our nation and the Church are somehow one and the same.

[castiron]

55. That's the Christianity I know and like.

[electricray]

58. "How big is your God?" or "Take God out of a box"

Those are great quotes I like to use...relating to what you said...these people forget that when they take things into their own hands, they're acting like they have more authority or power than God.

[JanusAscending]

77. There you go!!!

:toast:

[electricray]

78. I'm learning...

:pals:

[BlackVelvet04]

57. They blew their own argument.....

"We are not fighting against flesh
and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."



So, this person thinks that one fights spiritual wickedness with fleshly weapons? They think bombs destroy satan and demons, because that is who this verse is talking about. What they didn't quote from that particular scripture is the part that says "put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil FOR
we are not fighting against flesh and blood.........."

They know just enough about the Bible to be dangerous.

[GreenPartyVoter]

59. Sorry, I don't hear much of Jesus in that letter

[sarcasmo]

63. WWFSMD

[electricray]

65. ? explain the acronym for me... thanks n/t

[Zynx]

84. It's "What would the flying spaghetti monster do?"

I personally find that whole thing slightly offensive as a Christian, but oh well it's actually kind of funny. I really don't care what other people think about my beliefs so long as they don't question my sanity or intelligence as has happened before.

[never cry wolf]

67. Don't forget these passages.

By the way, Islam was not started for 600 years after Christ, and Judaism, Islam and Christianity all share the same old testament. Here's some words from the new testament:

Jesus challenged the Pharisees’ purity system by almost everything he did. It’s no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards — all of those people at the very bottom of the Who’s Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system — the temple — by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received “under the table” when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Father’s house into a “den of robbers,” as it’s recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

[cynatnite]

68. 'This war is spiritual'...One step away from the coming of Jesus...

This person cannot be reasoned with. People like this believe we're in the last days and the tribulation is at hand. Some believe we already are in the tribulation. :shrug:

People like this will say that to stop the war or pull out means it's declaring open warfare on Israel. They believe when all the counries go after Israel it's the end times and if the US turns it's back on them, the US will go down.

People like this will not stop in their rhetoric because they believe it with their heart and they've got plenty of backup to justify it. This is bush's base.

[electricray]

70. good insight. thanks! n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. You've hit an important point - a good percentage of the rightwing

Christian assholes believe that the end days are at hand, BUT - and THIS IS ESSENTIAL: the end days CANNOT begin unless Israel is still a country.

It's a totally warped and wrong reading of the Bible, but in their reading, the end times cannot happen unless there is an Israel, which is why you see so much support for israel and Jews from the rightwing, even though they may actually hate the Jews.

They WANT the end-times, and they think they can make it happen.

[cynatnite]

87. I was raised on the shit...

My rw mother and grandmother both believe it completely.

When it comes to the endtimes stuff...I think it makes for an interesting movie, fascinating reading, but I don't believe any of it. Hell, I read LaHaye's books up to the fifth or sixth one. I didn't finish because I got bored. :rofl:

What's scary is that I know people who take his books very literally...like bible literally.

[JNelson6563]

69. Thou shalt not kill

Gotta keep it simple with these people. :toast:

[Mz Pip]

73. There is nothing "spiritual"

about a war that the Prez had to fudge to the reasons to get the Nation on board for. If the was truly a "spritual" war then why not just say so up front? Why not be straight with the American people that this is all aboaut spirituality and the old testament prophecies.

If Bush is so tuned into what the Almighty expects of us, then why not just say so. Why all the smoke and mirrors?

Because it's all BS. Such assumptions are based on faith, not on facts and we are a nation that should deal with facts.

Besides, God does not micromanage the universe. I doubt he/she/it cares or is particulary concerned about democracy in Iraq.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[sepia_steel]

85. Hmm

"My whole adult life, Iran (Persia) has been a treat to America (Christianity)."

And she wants to kill them. What a gal.

(snark)

(typos again...)

[Emit]

86. If this person is asking you to do some research

Then I would ask them to do the same. I hate how these fanatics think that the entire Islamic population believes as one, and that it is based in the radical fundamental Islamic beliefs of bin Laden, et. al. But, sadly, this is what they are being taught in the fanatical Christian churches and on TV.

On Tavis Smiley the other day, I saw an interview with a guy who had some good info on Islam, and spoke very articulately about misperceptions of Islam, etc.

Here's the interview with Reza Aslan:

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200509/20050926.html

And here's the guy's site:
http://www.rezaaslan.com/html/aslan_articles.html



There's probably no way to also convince this person that she/he is being manipulated by Machiavellian powers that be who are using her/him and the rest of the masses like her/him to perpetuate their agenda, huh? Or that she/he might be part of a cult? Or that she/he is being just as fanatical in her/his religious beliefs as those she/he wants to kill? Nah, didn't think so. Good luck.

[neuvocat]

90. Ask for biblical quotes.

That will stop people like that in their tracks.

[knitter4democracy]

98. Not always.

Even the devil knows and uses the Bible. It's good to know some to answer back with, like the Beatitudes, the Seven Woes, and the two greatest commandments. Those get them sweating every time.

[neuvocat]

101. Good to know.

Thanks.

[Puregonzo1188]

91. My jaw just dropped...

My three favorite sentences in this piece are:

"My whole adult life, Iran (Persia) has been a treat to America
(Christianity). "

"Judaism is a spiritual
race not a nationality. "

"Read the Old Testament and look back in the history of
Israel as well as America and the church."

These three sentences had me laughing out loud.

[sakabatou]

92. Permission to throttle this person

"According to the New Testament, Christians have
become the true Jews because of our faith and the Hebrews rejection of that faith."

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[lectrobyte]

93. This person needs to enlist in the Army now! Onward Christian Soldiers!

[karlrschneider]

94. When I get emails like that, I reply as follows:

"If you EVER send me another piece of shit like that, I will come to your house, rip your goddamn head off, eat your children and fuck your dog. Or maybe the other way around. Be warned, asshole."


(I am totally serious...I really do reply that way)

[spacelady]

95. Well, I for one, don't care for nations that want to wipe us! ooogy n/t

[texastoast]

112. Who is us?

Mostly what I've heard is they want to wipe the reds who enabled the shrub's second term. Most other nations hate Bush, not Americans.

[electricray]

97. My 3-year-old had a good response to this email

Buzz Lightyear!

[BiggJawn]

100. Can you have their family COMMIT them to the Booby-Hatch?

Deluded people like this should not be allowed to roam loose.

Next you hear about them, it'll be the news that they've been arrested for burning a Mosque.

" How could anyone hate that deeply?"

Why don't you you say to them "I don't know. Why don't you spend some time looking in the MIRROR and get back to me on that one."

They are ceritfiably fucking looney-toons. They forgot to GIVE them the fries with their Happy Meal, never mind being a fe short.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

105. How does one begin to deal with that much ignorance in one post?

:shrug:

[ComerPerro]

108. This line, about our presents, says it all

Right now democracy has Iran surrounded, Iraq on one side and Afganistan on the other. Our presents there is somewhat a controlling influence on Iran. At least, we have more possibilities to keep an eye on them. Why do you think that Iran is one of the main supporters of the terrorists in Iraq?

Can't...

Stop...

Laughing...

[derby378]

109. Tell him, "You call this 'democracy?'"

The Iraqi people have no real control over their own destiny - the Bush junta does via CENTCOM and whomever's taken Bremer's place over there. And they're doling out our tax dollars (accent this for your fundie friend - HIS hard-earned money) to mercenaries and corporations who are intent with bleeding Iraq dry, and they don't intend to share one red cent of profit with the American people.

This isn't democracy. This is fascism. And he fell for it hook, line, and sinker. And if he's any sort of Christian, he'll renounce the whole damn thing immediately.

Unless, of course, he wants to be regarded as a coward.

[tranche]

110. Thank You - now I'm starting to understand this administration n/t

[texastoast]

111. Tell them to read four books of the Bible

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus trumped the Old Testament. He didn't come to change it--he came to fulfill it.

And Jesus said to love your enemies and to treat people as you wish to be treated. He made no exception. You either are with him or you are against him. He did point that out.

Understand that moderate Muslims are fighting against fundamentalist Muslims. It's not about the moderate Muslims against Americans. Moderate Muslims are generally okay with us. Fundamentalism in any religious form or fashion is bad news.

And for God's sake, tell the idiot who wrote this or who goes "YEAH!!" when they read it to read the New Testament and get really bold and read the Koran.

War will continue until we decide it is unacceptable for old men to send young people to die. And the argument that "It has been that way since the beginning of time" makes my blood boil. Polio, plague, and smallpox were devastating since the beginning of time and until we decided to do something about it. Today is a new day to make new choices. Tell that fucker to get with a new program.

[Bridget Burke]

113. That phrase: "Draw a line in the sand"....

Has always troubled me. It reminds me of the line that William Barrett Travis (supposedly) drew in the sand of the Alamo.

That enterprise ended badly.

I remain speechlessly appalled at the rest of the message.

[EstimatedProphet]

114. It's just stupid raving

Point at them and laugh. That refutes what they say too.