How sad...Jon is using ANSWER as its protest source

[Atman]

*sigh*

We need to send him a letter or two to educate him.

[wndycty]

1. ITS F'ING COMEDY!!!!

Now he is bashing the Freepers. . .cut the man some damn slack.

[Atman]

2. IT'S A F*ING POST!

Someone else will post something, too!

Have a drink, dude.

[donheld]

4. IT'S A F*ING COMEDY POST

:evilgrin::hide::evilgrin:

[Malikshah]

76. How about, it's pathetic to use the collective "we"

when discussing the topic of educating Jon about ANSWER....

what arrogance.

:) and have a happyhappy day ANSWER-Hater.

[Atman]

81. Oh, PUH-LEEZE!

WE will in-fight about anything now, won't WE?

Now it's my choice of the word WE?

Maybe Jon is right to ridicule us. What a feckless lot when THAT is all you have to argue about.

And yes, I have no qualms about admitting I cannot stand ANSWER. Call it hate if you want. WE can see where you're coming from!

Have a nice day, ANSWER-apologist. :eyes:

[Malikshah]

91. No-- the infighting is about folks who desire to inspire divisiveness

with inane posts reiterating stale anti-ANSWER bits and chewing the cud of anti-ANSWER memes like stale vomit.

Beyond that, there's very little infighting...

ANSWER-apologist?? That's rich. I address the tired old methods and now I'm linked. Great leap there. Guess now it's time for some more well-worn insults to come at me. (Mental note: Get kevlar vest ready...)

Enjoy the taste. :)

[DistressedAmerican]

6. May Be. But., The Audience Was Not Terribly Amused. Until The Freeper

remarks they were nearly silent...

[Catchawave]

79. He did acknowledge their silence

with a snarky comment about this bit not going well? Something to that effect....

[DistressedAmerican]

88. "We're Finding A Level Here" If I Recall Correctly.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. He's showing it from CSPAN

I believe CSPAN just covered ANSWER. And yes he's a comedian.

[wellstone dem]

3. He's got us pegged. nt

[LSK]

5. yeah, he should have used CNN or MSNBCs coverage

Oh wait, there was none...

[The Magistrate]

7. Thus, Sir

Demonstrating with exquisite precision the precise political value of the A.N.S.W.E.R. speakers....

[Atman]

9. I'm not following you, Mag

What was demonstrated? It was used just as many of us have been saying it would be used...to make the statement that the democrats are a bunch of disorganized kooks who don't know what they're protesting.

Thanks, ANSWER! If you hadn't usurped the entire three-hours of coverage on CNN, at least there might be clips available of the march 250,000 showed up for.

FREE MUMIA!

[The Magistrate]

10. Indeed, Sir

That is my point precisely: the speaker's platform had the political value of a laughingstock, about equal to the value of a pea-shooter in a gunfight.

"What people have been made to join in laughter against, they can never be brought to quite take seriously again."

[moddemny]

12. As usual.......

very well put by The Magistrate.

[Atman]

13. Thank you

I was beginning to think I was the only one to understand how seriously the Daily Show is taken. It is the #1 "news" source among a large demographic. Sad or not, that is reality. It's a shame to see a guy who is usually a tremendous advocate for us, lump us into the ANSWER charade.

[SlowDownFast]

16. and so it begins (or continues)

Those who continue to negate the ANSWER circus's impact on mainstream America need only look to this obvious example as a negative repercussion of said circus.

More will be forthcoming, that you can be assured of. Serious cannonfodder for the right.

ANSWER and ANSWER apologists need to pull their collective heads from out of the clouds (or somewhere else).

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. somewhere else

where the sun does not shine

[entanglement]

52. Nasty, nasty

n/t

[The Magistrate]

28. That Used, Mr. Atman, To Be Their Slogan

"The Daily Show --- where more people get their news than probably should."

[Atman]

56. I was always partial to...

"When News Breaks, We Fix It."

It says everything, on so many levels.

[qanda]

57. This is hilarious

The demographic that it's #1 with ARE the people who were at the march. Perhaps that's why the audience didn't find it very amusing. I saw a number of Jon Stewart for President shirts and signs at the march on Saturday.

[jane_pippin]

85. Except here's the thing:

Yes, the Daily Show is important--I would never ever dispute that. What I do dispute is the labeling of Jon and other comedians as "advocates for us"

They are not. To think of them that way is to set yourself up for disappointment.

Why does the Daily Show so often jive with our point of view? Because as social commentators, they mock society and its hypocrisy. Right now, of course, that is dominated by BushCo and his goofy supporters. But it wasn't always and won't always be that way. It's the hypocrisy they go after 9 times out of 10, not one political side or the other.

In this case, as has been the case with pretty much every spot they've ever done on the Daily Show about protests, they went after the appearance of disorganization. Did it look disorganized? Yes, I watched it and it did look disorganized. Is it because c-span kept the cameras on the speakers the whole time? Yeah, kind of. And I'm sorry, but while I believe that everyone should have their say, I also believe that people organizing events need to take into account the point of the event they are organizing. At the very least, they should take constructive criticism offered and use it to learn from for the next go-round.

The fact that the Daily Show is the "number one news source" for some people is not the design or fault of the Daily Show. To insist that it's a legit news show is to say it's OK that actual news shows don't give us news because the Daily Show will do it for them. Get mad at the networks who didn't cover it at all if you're going to get mad at anybody.

[mike_c]

14. bingo....

Tip o' the hat, sir.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

8. TDS is a TV show...

... and the only video coverage available was CSPAN who focused on A.N.S.W.E.R. Maybe that's why they chose it.

At least it was mentioned. I'm guessing that excerpting your posts from DU may not be their preferred source. :shrug:

I'm PVRing it and won't watch it until tomorrow.

We need to send him a letter or two to educate him.

Yeah. Right. Good luck with "educating him". :think:

/Looking forward to seeing Jon perform live in a few weeks.

[Atman]

11. "Yeah. Right. Good luck with "educating him".

Yeah, as in literally educating him to what ANSWER is all about. *GASP* What a horrible thought! We wouldn't want to correct mistaken impressions about ourselves, would we. That would be so...so...uh, what's wrong with that again?

Do you think Jon knows much about Answer? Of course, it'd be silly to point out to Jon a fact that he might not have picked up from the three hours of ANSWER coverage. What was I thinking. Thank you for straightening me out!

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

18. Your assumption...

...is that Jon Stewart and TDS staff are uninformed about A.N.S.W.E.R. and that someone needs to "educate" them on this.

My assumption is the opposite. I trust them.

My choice of weapon was muted sarcasm. Yours was a teenth louder.

Therein lies the differences in our posts. Despite our methods, we may be supporting the same cause.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. At least Jon was very kind in the footage he selected to use. eom

[KittyWampus]

61. he seemed almost apologetic doing those bits. He was kind

in his choice. And then happily visited the Freeper Rally. :D

[bee]

15. I wasnt pleased with tds tonight either....

I dunno...
I was very surprised to see Jon painting the protest in that light.
seemed kinda point-and-laugh to me. Not what I expected from tds. Not at all.

I didnt really have a stance on the answer issue before this.. but now Im wondering if maybe the anti-answer people dont have a valid point.

Im not quite sure what to make of this. :shrug:

[eggman67]

21. Could it be

That he's trying to point out that we need to get the fuck away from those nutjobs if we want people to take us seriously?

[Melodybe]

31. Not shit, I was there, and they make us look crazy

[Dorian Gray]

69. Or maybe...

The Daily Show just likes to make fun of EVERYBODY!

I don't understand why people are upset about this.

It is their job to MAKE FUN!

[SlowDownFast]

22. "wondering"? "not quite sure"?

how much more effin evidence do you people need?

Chrissakes, Jon Stewart is humiliating the protest (based on the ANSWER protest coverage) on one of the most viewed cable show's around!

This is only the beginning! Reichwing radio's gonna have a field day (if they're not already) for months with this stuff.

We just might be lucky Rita had the MSM preoccupied during this rally/march.

ANSWER's gotta go. They're hurting the movement. It may be a just a little, it may be alot, but they're hurting it.

[eggman67]

25. But, but...

Where will we go for our free-form poetry :sarcasm:

[mcctatas]

26. Tee hee hee.....

I thought I found some free-form poetry when trolling through freeptown, then I realized it was just someone trying to form a complete sentence:evilgrin:

[eggman67]

27. ROFL

It can be hard to distinguish :)

Hey there's an idea for a reality show Freeps & Freaks. Drop some freepers on an island with some ANSWER freaks and watch the hijinks ensue...

[mcctatas]

29. Oh sweet Jesus!!!

the loony left and the rabid right together at last! As long as there is no interbreeding, the poor kids would be doomed:rofl:

(Oh Christ, betchya someone gets pissy about the loony left thing)

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Pass the popcorn

anybody wants to sugest this to CBS for Survivor?

[eggman67]

36. They'd each get a platform for their babbling

and the rest of us can go about the business of righting the ship.

I can see it now Tonight on Freeps & Freaks - Shrill Ranting vs. Incoherent Sermonizing. Must see TV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. must turn off TV

but at least if we gave them THAT stage we can go on ignoring them... and worst that can happen is .. they reach for them guns....

;-)

[eggman67]

41. Oh, weapons should definitely be provided

They can be prizes for winning competitions...

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Yuo tihink CBS will take us on?

I mean voting people off the Island will have a definite feel to them, as in FINAL.

:popcorn:

[mcctatas]

44. Hence the need for the ban on interbreeding...

the offspring would either be shrilly sermonizing or incoherently ranting, and we all know that there is nothing worse than a shrill preacher....except for an incoherent ranter! Plus, you know that freeps are closet freaks because they spend half of their day worrying about someone else (god forbid an unmarried woman or a gay man) doing the nasty with cosenting adults! Don't let them fool ya, freepers have dirty minds!;)

[eggman67]

37. There cant be any interbreeding

Freepers don't fuck.

(Oh Christ, betchya someone gets pissy about the loony left thing)

Count on it ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. I'll make sure to write some

so you are not deprived

;-)

[DoYouEverWonder]

60. Then would you like to take on organizing an event

that can draw over 300,000 people? Good luck.

[SlowDownFast]

75. This response is bullshit.

You ANSWER apologists with you're 'well, then you start your own protest' responses to criticism are full of it.

Firstly, if you can't see the need to marginalize ANSWER at these rallys/protests, I am seriously worried about the left's ability to accomplish ANYTHING.

Secondly, the "bitching" about ANSWER is just the beginning. There WILL be action, and when ANSWER is finally sidelined for the benefit of us all, it will have been no thanks to you or anybody else who just wants to sweep this debacle under the rug.

[qanda]

59. Consider it piling on

I feel so terrible right now. Reading this thread and so many others on DU that serve to "educate" me on how we were perceived on Saturday. I just never thought I would have to return from the march and be ridiculed from my own. Oh well, no good deed goes unpunished.

[Atman]

82. You are NOT being ridiculed by your own, dammit!

We greatly appreciate what you did, I swear. We're piling on ANSWER, not the MARCH. I know others at the MARCH who didn't even know about the rally, and didn't care. And they feel as you do...they put a lot of time, money, risk into attending, and they feel they've been burned.

But THE MARCH was a success. What you did was a success.

The bitch -- once again :eyes: -- is with ANSWER. THEY are the ones ridiculing you, not DUers. We're ridiculing ANSWER. HUGE difference.

[demobabe]

17. See? There it is...

Even the friendly media is critical of the messaging of the day because ANSWER put their agenda ahead of the topic that was promoted (Iraq War).

ANSWER's message makes it impossible for media and people in power to get behind their protests because they don't want to align with them. It's obvious that Jon Stewart would take the stand he did, altho the comment about the protesters needing to get jobs was a low blow...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. I winced when he said that about those girls, who appeared to look

like most of the teenage girls who attend my son's high school.

[eggman67]

40. But I loved the part

when he said "The organizers knew just how to keep the crowd entertained." The cut to:

Speaker: "Are you guys ready for a treat? Our next speaker is a poet."

Jon: "And.... she's gonna tell us where the treat is?"

:rofl:

[LSK]

38. and the protest was on a weekend

:grr:

[jane_pippin]

19. Well his work does involve a hefty dose of

social criticism. He's a social commentator not a partisan talking head.

[U4ikLefty]

23. OMG, so Jon is a communist?!?

:sarcasm:

[Must_B_Free]

30. did you catch the "Free Palestine" chant at the end?

the DS was ridiculing the peace movement...

[SlowDownFast]

35. "the DS was ridiculing the peace movement..."

yeah, but that has NOTHING to do with ANSWER, and it's just a comedy show......COMMIE-PHOBIA-McCARTHYIST!


:sarcasm:

[eggman67]

42. Yeah, but don't worry

ANSWER's no problem. Nobody watches CSPAN anyway. :sarcasm:

[U4ikLefty]

45. Is anyone seriously upset about THAT?!?

I thought it was gonna be something bad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Just watched it and quite frankly he made fun of BOTH

protests... that said, what OTHER footage did he have to work with?

Oh yes, all the amazing footage that the MSM had...

(And he took the least offensive sections I must say, and did point the disorganization, the mirror is quite good actually)

[norml]

47. I agree in many ways with with the unspoken comment of Jon Stewart.

There were too many side issues that I agree with put on the center stage.

Those issues might have been OK to mention in passing, but should not have overwhelmed the event.

There were too many side issues that I don't agree with put on the center stage.

I don't like Communist/Marxist Parties.

I see such Parties as Totalitarian.

Our little UNL NORML/HEMP group was paid a visit by The Socialist Workers Party.

They wanted us to work with them.

Everyone except the guy (english department status seeker trying to look cool by welcoming communists to UNL) who invited them thought they were nuts.

Other than that one visit we never had anything to do with them.

We did sometimes work with Amnesty International and an Ecology group on campus called Ecology Now, however at our events we were always in charge.

We may have mentioned other issues in passing, however we stayed mainly focused on NORML/HEMP issues at our meetings, at our booths, at our rallies, and in our testimonies before the Nebraska Legislature.

Maybe I could help with a few tips from some of our rallies.

One thing for sure, we always had a balance of music, speeches, and marching during the day, and we always had a fund raising concert that night.

We'd get the hall for free.

We'd get the bands to play for free.

I'd run around putting up posters.

We'd make hundreds of dollars every time, and educate a lot of people on the issues in the process.

Might not this be something to do?

[symbolman]

48. Told you

and he was being NICE.. just wait, ANSWERS carjacking of the issues is going to be a slamdunk for the right wing..

Notice the start where the speaker says, "THis is going out to the real world.."

and I said it before Jon did.. No One Watches CSPAN.

THis proves the anti ANSWER folks bitches loud and clear, sorry but if we don't stay on message then and LOCKSTEP as Progressives we're screwed..

FOr one thing, If I get a chance to work one of these marches I'd make Damn SURE that EVERYONE had a FLAG.. a FLAG, FLAGS EVERYWHERE waving in joy, so that Middle America gets the message that WE love our country..

We need to take OUR flag back and this is one way to do it - photogs won't miss a chance to take a pic filled with flags.

Psyops FOR the PEOPLE, you need to think of it that way - rebranding and working the media to our benefit doesn't mean anyone is going to get left out, they just have to hold on to their issue a little longer..

as in "No Dessert until you've eaten your dinner.." "No paycheck until you've done the work." "No sex until you've bought me dinner or I know you for a while.."

Imagine if a guy acted that way on a first date.. Free form poetry, screaming at a woman about all the issues he wants to get out in the open, demanding action - SEX, NOW, etc..

We have to lure the middle out in the open, we have to gently work them over to our side, we have to be playful, yet appear responsible, and we have to speak with ONE VOICE.

ANSWER does not speak with one voice, there's no consensus there, fractured, splintered does not a party make.

I bet the March was great, and someone said that there was music and partying later at another stage - that's what they should have done FIRST to get everyone HOPPING and MARCHING..

Looks more like it was 3 hours of boring foreplay and the bride wasn't interested having been promised scintillating conversation, lots of presents, being wooed, etc.. so she left.

We can FIX the problem now that it's been identified, but be honest, I have TIVO'd all the ANSWER scenes (or been there) since Bush got in, and I could show you that they are virtually identical.

Einstein said that you cannot use the thinking that got you into the mess to get yourself out. New Voices, Comedians, Bands, Mock Trials, Prizes - we have to clean it up to get Democratic Leaders to show, it's got "commie cooties" now..

Why does everyone call themselves Progressives now instead of Liberals? Because unfortunately Liberal is still a dirty word, even tho Liberals brought us everything from AntiChild Labor Laws to Vacations from our Jobs, Safety at work, etc..

Thanks Jon for making it so apparent :) the only ones we need in denial are the enemy, not us..

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Several of us told them

lets see if now they will see we are not that crazy... and answer needs to go

And to be fair, which the OP is not, Jon made fun of BOTH protests, us and them. The mirrors were brutal but true.

We might learn from it, the freepers, nothing to see here, move along, damn lib'rul media

[SlowDownFast]

50. Funny how ANSWER apologists

haven't chimed in on this thread yet.

They've poo-poohed all the rest of the criticizing ANSWER threads.

Not that any of them have any solid rationale to just let ANSWER slide on what they did, anyhow. They just bitch that we're bitching about ANSWER...

Well, SOMEBODY has to bitch about them. And it seems like the prevailing winds around here (and KOS)say ANSWER fucked up the rally. We've barely started to see the fallout yet(preoccupation w/ Rita), but it's coming - as witnessed on the DS.

True, the march was successful, minus the no-media-coverage of that...

But that's more than once that ANSWER has fucked it up (twice? more?) and somethins gotta be done. And serious bitching and constructive criticism is the warm-up for action. This shouldn't just go away until it blindsides us AGAIN. Twice is already too much.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

74. ANSWER has been fucking up rallies for years.

Was everyone hiding under a fucking rock?

[Melodybe]

87. Did you see the protest for the inauguration?

I watched on Cspan and was so exited when I saw Will Pitt, who was awesome and completely right on with all of his comments and then the next 20 speakers did nothing but talk about things like Haiti, the Philippines, and Palestine.

It made me so mad then, I was like good loonies we can't do shit about that until we get rid of Bush!

Priorities folks.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

92. I met some ANSWER people in San Francisco once.

I learned something that day:

Stalinists should never engage me in conversation when I'm drunk and trying to eat a burrito.

Ever.

[ET Awful]

53. To all you anti-ANSWER folks . . . here's a suggestion . . .

If you don't like their way of doing things, then DO SOMETHING YOURSELF. Sitting around whining like a spoiled child about the way someone else does something doesn't get a god damned thing changed.

NOBODY else is taking the steps necessary to organize large scale events.

If you don't want ANSWER involved, the logical step is to form a group that will jump through all the necessary hoops that ANSWER currently does insofar as organizing, gaining permits, gaining funding, etc.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Doing nothing accomplishes nothing, that's kind of the way it works.

Sure nobody wants to hear about Save Pakistani Land Whales from Extinction or whatever new pet cause is being spoken about at anti-war rallies, but until someone (namely those who object so vociferously to ANSWER) steps up and actually attempts to organize something, then ANSWER will always be the organizer.

Every rally, both local and national I've seen, I see the same old complaining and whining.

If you don't like the way someone else organizes it, then DO SOMETHING YOURSELF. Form another group if you like, publicize it nationally, get national donors and support, fight for the permits, arrange for the space necessary for rallies, etc. Just do something besides whine.

Who does more damage to the anti-war movement, those who organize the rallies and speak about other unrelated issues, or those who do nothing but whine about people who organize the rallies speaking about other unrelated issues.

If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. PERIOD.

[AfricanGray]

54. What would Vonnegut think now?

When Kurt Vonnegut visited Stewart a couple of weeks ago, he said something like "You are enormously popular with the right sort of people." Well, I think the "right sort of people" aka his base,is largely against this war.

The Daily show thrives on Mess-opotamia discussion. Now when this base protests that Mess, the protest is called Mess-opotamic. Clever, yes. Empathetic, no. And, it was not a disorganized affair - although we did have to wait in our lines a long time before marching. I attributed that to there being a great deal of people, and to the speeches taking a long time (many of which were off target, as Jon mentioned.) Ok, a joke or two on that is allowed.

However, Given the lack of courage the mainstream media showed throughout the whole prewar buildup and the war, I am disappointed when someone whom I thought was on our side, can't cut us a bit of slack. Sure there were plenty of things to poke fun at. Use a few of these things to get a laugh - that is fair, but please also include shots of all the normal people who marched. How about showing some of the great political signs that protesters brought?

I think it was very unbalanced overall. How very Republican to show a picture of hippie looking people and then say that they don't have a job. We should be astute and open-minded enough to know there are many professions who allow people to dress as they want. Look at some of the Republican types who show up at theme parks for heavens sake!!!!! I have a pretty good job, thank you. And I also have vacation time which I used for the march. There were many others who were just like me, and many others who applauded my efforts for going.

His comment about the fact that only CSPAN was covering Jesse Jackson's speech was also a cheap shot. The world was watching and some of the world was marching with us. The event was also reported all over the world.

In defense of Jon, he did conclude nicely with the pro-war rally being 99.4% less than our rally, but somehow that doesn't make up for the ridiculing of Cindy Sheehan etc.......................

I am very disappointed in Jon. One can always go for the jokes.

[Atman]

58. "Sure there were plenty of things to poke fun at."

Bush and Cheney running and hiding would have been great places to start.

[qanda]

63. Very good and thoughtful post

I have some of the very same thoughts and feelings as yourself. It feels pretty crappy to get labeled in this way. The crowd was so diverse on Saturday and I invite you to visit a few of the pictures I took. http://photobucket.com/albums/b8/plyle/Protest%20Pictures/

BTW, welcome to DU.

[Wind Dancer]

86. Great pics, qanda.

It was great to see such a large group of people from all over the country. At one point, I stood next to an elderly woman who could hardly stand up yet she proudly walked with all of us to protest this illegal war and administration. She gave me strength.

[CBGLuthier]

65. Go for the Jokes

In a comedy show. How fucking dare he.

:-)

[Atman]

70. Missed the point

Of course it's a comedy show. No one is arguing that it isn't. The initial thread was a continuation on the ANSWER FUCKED US theme, and it's true. By hogging ALL the on-air coverage, which is where TDS gets all of its clips, we were relegated to being an object of ridicule, with the same old tired republican "get a job, hippy!" memes. ANSWER left us wide open to it. That is all I was saying in my initial post...it is too bad Jon didn't know better, or maybe he might have focused the joking a different way. Like, maybe at ANSWER, and not the 200,000 Americans who traveled from all over the country to take part in the march.

But you know what? I had this argument with a good friend of mine who traveled to the march (I wasn't able to attend), and he literally did not believe that the only coverage was of ANSWERs rally. "I was there! There were hundreds of thousands of people! It was awesome! Everybody ws positive, upbeat, having a great time, supporting the cause." He's a PhD in bio-chemical engineering, not a dumb guy. Not that many people who attended the march, from what can discern, knew or cared that much about what ANSWER was yammering on about. But, again, the point you seem to be missing is that no matter how great the MARCH was, the only video available to anyone -- Jon included -- was of Free Mumia, poets, raging grannies and assorted kooks. It gave the total 100% wrong impression of the day, and Jon got sucked into it.

Of course it's comedy. But comedy works when it is based upon reality. He tried to make a joke of a joke, and as the audience response indicated, the butt of the jokes -- us -- didn't take to keenly to it. Nobody likes to have their face rubbed in the fact that they've been made to look the fool.

We only have ANSWER to thank for that. That is the impression they gave as they sucked up every minute of airtime given to the rally.

[Atman]

55. If you don't like something, do it yourself

Great sentiment. Sure. Fine. But what about if we don't like something that already happened? What is the point of your post? We do have solutions, or at least the germination of same. We can't go back in a time machine; what ANSWER's done is done. We now need to deal with the ramifications and fallout, and plan for the next time.

Your "get over it or do it yourself" post is totally non-productive, as that is essentially what we're doing here -- figuring out how to counter their bullshit. Getting the word out that we must not be involved with ANSWER anymore. Perhaps DU or somesuch should have a press release about out displeasure with ANSWER, so that when the next talking head tries to use their folly against us, we'll be prepared with a unified response up front, not scrambling and looking foolish afterwards by saying "but...but...but..."

I promise you, if anyone had known that ANSWER was going to steal the entire show beforehand, things would have been done differently. But we're in the here and now. Bitching at US for not doing things better than ANSWER did last weekend is a non sequitur. You can apply all your arguments to BushCo...if you don't like the way the administration is doing things, just become president and do 'em yourself. :eyes:

I'm sorry, I don't take kindly to being shit on by these people, and then being told by my own team mates to shut up about it. How were we to solve a problem before we knew it existed??

Believe me, we will DO SOMETHING OURSELVES. There are a shitload of people at DU, with lots of various skill sets, and an instant fundraising mechanism. But whatever the outcome of this, what ANSWER has already done deserves to be addressed, not swept under the rug with a Clintonian "get over it."

How unproductive is that?

[SlowDownFast]

73. Amen, Atman.

This should get it's own thread.

Our "bitching" about it is just the beginning of action.

Those who want to sweep this ANSWER debacle under the carpet once again are the ones who need a reality check.

[symbolman]

80. Agreed Atman

The first thing you have to do to solve problems is to IDENTIFY them and to me that's what a lot of folks have been doing here.

So now that I think a decent amount of people have stepped up to the plate and think something should be done, now what?

I can make some calls and schmooze some folks or sites, but here's the way I see it..

Assuming we want a bang up funtime march with great speakers then we should create a group that makes those kinds of decisions. An "Editorial Board" of sorts among sites/people that want to be involved. We're going to have to make some tough choices and defend them to keep people happy enough to come on over to the fun side.

We'll need Lawyers, preferably Pro Bono to effect getting permits - seems odd that a group Like ANSWER with the baggage they carry would be allowed to set up so easily and get permitted. I'd like to believe that it's our right to do that but as I recall Cindy got shut down in NYC in a NY Minute (over using amplification, they arrested the guy with the mikes/amps I think), and the charge was NO PERMITS as well.

SO we get some lawyers to get the permits, set a date, name it, get PR going with a group of folks/sites (I like to call them the "13 Original Cyber Colonies") getting the word out every where.

Location: One idea is to start a little smaller to make sure that you can get it "right" and in a place where weather is not such a problem, say Los Angeles, with a great proximity to Movie Folks and people Like Robert Greenwald, etc (I have his number - he's the Win Without War head or close to it, and they have a stable of Progressive actors/actresses - let's use the "smart" ones :) ) and it's a large enough city to have security and a good size group of folks showing up.

Entertainment: Name Band with a good message, other bands with same message, but different styles to make everyone happy, from Rap to Country to Punk, etc - political but friendly.

Comedians, there are a few I know that make my face hurt who beat Bush like a circus donkey.

Events: Mock Impeachment of Bush, other things, just brainstorming off the top of my head at 4am..

See? We ARE making progress :)

We need to form a committee here on the DU to study and brainstorm and to share connections - best way to do that?

I'm going to give this heavy thought, Takebackthemedia.com has been entertaining people for many years now and as a vet I can stay on message, but one message that shouldn't be lost is that the MEDIA CHOSE ANSWER. This is another reason to make a KILLER SHOW for the March.. the Media will show if they find out the liberals can PARTY AND MARCH for a good cause..

So Taking back the media is also a good submessage, and that's part of why I want to be involved - the BIG picture is ENDING the war, getting the troops back, and Impeaching Bush IMHO..

Thoughts? We can make up a great coalition name too..

Good post, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, but if the tire is bald and cracking and losing air why not get new RIMS with the New TIRE? :)

[SlowDownFast]

83. 100% behind you, symbolman.

There will be plenty others, too.

The sentiment that ANSWER is doing more harm than good is the prevalent sentiment, I think.

Someone's just gotta take point and it sounds like you already have the contacts.

There was a post on another thread that intimated that an anti-war organizer position (minus ANSWER) with a decent salary is ripe for the picking. At the very least, we can build a coalition of 'Cyber Colonies' and see where that takes us. The blogosphere has 100x the influence and power than a coalition of fringe groups like ANSWER. We CAN build a better mousetrap!


"If you build it..."

[ET Awful]

90. What's more unproductive, sitting around in a group clusterfuck

complaining about something that's been happening at every rally for years, or actually trying to effect change?

I'd say that the group clusterfuck (which is all the ANSWER whining amounts to) is a tad less productive.

So tell me, what have you done to make things different?

Your foolish comparision to Bush is just that, foolish. See, I DID work for change, worked for it quite a bit during the last election, still am working for it.

I didn't sit back and whine about the way others were working, I got involved.

If you don't involve yourself in organizing or planning events you wish to participate in, you have no place complaining about the organization or planning. Don't give me any bullshit about not being able to get involved, if you wanted to you could have.

There are indeed a shitload of people at DU, but the question is whether or not that shitload is willing to become a cohesive force and actually organize, or whether half the shitload will whine about what the other shitload does or doesn't do?

If you aren't willing to involve yourself in organizing, but merely wish to attach yourself to what others organize, you have no right attacking them for the way they organized it.

Basically your position is the same as that of someone who doesn't vote bitching about the outcome of an election.

[SlowDownFast]

77. Yawn.

Same bland response: 'Well, make your own protest if you don't like it!'

That's almost as intelligent as 'Get over it!'

[ET Awful]

89. Yawn

same bland response "I don't like what other people are doing, so I'm going to sit here and whine and moan until I get my way."

That's almost as intelligent as "Mommy I dropped my ice cream cone."

If you want change, work for change, don't complain because things aren't changing to suit your desires.

Seriously, what have YOU done to effect a change?

[mccoyn]

62. I found the audiance response amusing.

The Daily Show makes fun of the news. For 5 years that has been making fun of the right because they have been the ones making news. Finally the left makes a bit of news and they are shocked when The Daily Show makes fun of it. News flash people, The Daily Show is a comedy show, not a liberal mouthpiece. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I saw three options for them. They could ignore it, vindicating the prevailing media opinion that it isn't news. They could treat it as any other news and make jokes about it. Or they could make a biased report supporting liberals, which isn't what their show is about.

[CBGLuthier]

64. Ha ha, I knew this thread would be here

He says some of the very same things that were said on DU about the march and now people feel so betrayed.

Why, I imagine the second he made the joke about Cindy Sheehan that some here cancelled their cable on the spot.


If he had not pointed out the flaws of the march then he would be about as fair and balanced as Fox. He made the counter-protest look much worse, but he had to show what happened at the march.


Eat your own, folks, eat your own.

DU is so predictable some times.

[seabeyond]

66. hey, i have heard at least three times, he says

things off this board, lol wink.

yes.

to your post

[Mr_Spock]

68. Yeah, we need to take the criticizm like men (or women)

It's well deserved - I thought it was appropriate - sucks to look in the mirror at times!!

We'll learn about sculpting an image someday I hope.

DU is predictable - but don't think that this thread represents all the thousands of DU people who are simply choosing to ignore it...

[CBGLuthier]

71. Oh, I know it doesn't represent all of us

But as I was watching it with my wife I knew there was a small group that would be offended royally.

Just as I know my mentioning that fact will piss off some too.

I still think the march was a good thing, just a little screwed up, but the shots of the crowd made for a powerful image.

[Mr_Spock]

72. Yeah, I hope you brought your flame-proof suit today!

:rofl:

I guess I'll need one for agreeing and expanding on your remarks :rofl:

[seabeyond]

67. we can blindly defend, like republicans do with bush

or we can say. fool me once, twice.... shame on you, lol three times aint gonna happen. we learned our lesson. and we HAVE had some good marches without them. we will just do that in the future. they lost the right to participate, just like the neocons should in the republican party, because of abuse of power. dont need to deny them, but lay down the lines. hijacking a movement, march isnt ok

[AlCzervik]

78. Jon Bashes Bush and the GOP 95% of the time, i guess the 5% he spends

on democrats is just too much for some people.

[Atman]

84. And so it goes...for you ANSWER apologists who don't get it...

Jon is Jewish. Perhaps "educating" him as to where to properly direct his "fun" is not such a cockamamie idea after all, eh?

---

Jewish group calls Iraq War protest anti-Israel


http://www.antiwar.com/blog/index.php?id=P2393

War Party Mobilizes to Protect Pelosi

The sickening manipulation of ethnic and religious passions by the War Party is nowhere more dramatically demonstrated than in this "rapid response alert" sent out by someone in the office of the Jewish Community Relations Council of San Francisco, the Peninsula , Marin, Sonoma Alameda and Contra Costa Counties:

"PRO-ISRAEL ACTIVISTS – SEND A MESSAGE OF SUPPORT TO CONGRESSWOMAN

NANCY PELOSI TO COUNTER AN ANTI-ISRAEL RALLY PLANNED ON

"Monday, September 26, Noon - outside Pelosi's office at the Federal Building - 450 Golden Gate, San Francisco.

"United for Peace & Justice and ANSWER, two Anti- Israel groups, will gather outside Nancy Pelosi's office at the Federal Building, to protest the Iraq War, and 'the atrocities and crimes of the Israeli state.'"

The email goes on to cite a quote that does not come from UJP or Code Pink, the two co-sponsoring organizations, in an effort to link the protest -- which is about the Iraq war, and nothing else -- to "anti-Israel" activities. This is a lie, and a shameless one. I saw the same nonsense going on at the San Francisco antiwar rally on Saturday: there was a group of counter-protesters holding Israeli flags. I went up to one of them and said: "What does any of this has to do with Israel? After all," I averred, "this demonstration is about the war, not Israel." The guy told me that he had gotten an email saying that an "anti-Israel" demonstration was going to take place, and that it was his duty to show up and show the flag.

It's interesting how the War Party lies, and manipulates ethnic-nationalist feeings to its advantage -- when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of Bay Area people of the Jewish faith support the antiwar position. This email is a fraud perpetrated on the Jewish community. What in the name of all that's holy is the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Bay Area doing acting as a shill for the War Party? An interesting question, which you might want to ask them yourself. Just call them up. Here's the number:

415-957-1551

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4911789