Can a non-toxic bioflavonoid beat out

[HysteryDiagnosis]

a medication? Yes. One example.... your mileage may vary. Mr./Mrs. mod... I am not promoting anything... I am stating a fact here. In other words... I am revealing badly needed truth.

1: Phytother Res. 2002 Mar;16 Suppl 1:S1-5. Related Articles, Links


Comparative study of Venostasin and Pycnogenol in chronic venous insufficiency.

Koch R.

Wolfsschlucht 6a, 34117 Kassel, Germany.

The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of Venostasin (horse chestnut seed extract) and Pycnogenol (French maritime pine bark extract) in the treatment of chronic venous insufficiency (CVI). In an open, controlled comparative study 40 patients with diagnosed CVI were treated either with 600 mg chestnut seed extract per day or 360 mg Pycnogenol per day over a period of 4 weeks.

The following parameters were investigated before the start of treatment and after 2 and 4 weeks of treatment: circumference of the lower legs and rating of subjective symptoms (scores) of pain, cramps, night-time swelling, feeling of "heaviness", and reddening of the skin.

In addition, blood levels of cholesterol LDL and HDL were determined before and at the end of treatment. Pycnogenol significantly reduced the circumference of the lower limbs and significantly improved subjective symptoms. Furthermore, Pycnogenol significantly decreased cholesterol and LDL values in the blood, whereas HDL remained unaffected.

Venostasin only moderately but not significantly, reduced the circumference of the lower limbs and marginally improved symptoms. Venostasin had no influence on the determined lipid values. Both medications were equally well tolerated. In conclusion, Pycnogenol was found to be more efficacious than Venostasin for the treatment of CVI. Copyright 2002 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 11933130

[REP]

1. This Is Not Appropriate

You are pushing a product - in General Discussion! Cut it out. You cannot diagnose or treat any condition on this forum. (Plus, one study doesn't prove squat.)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. What product??? Name it. Furthermore... goto Pubmed and

enter pycnogenol.... read for dayzzzzzzzzzzz. Really.

[REP]

7. Been There, Done That, Thanks.

Really - you presented *one* small study as the be-all and end-all treatment for a difficult condition.

And yes, I've seen the studies. Neither Venistat or pycnogenol are really that impressive for venous stasis.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Life Extension Foundation.... get a clue.

WWW.LEF.ORG

[rosesaylavee]

4. I don't think this is pushing a product - I think it is

indicative of the state of our health care at this point in time. I couldn't go and buy this product anywhere... this is just a report of a study - one of thousands out there for like natural substances.

I think the point here is that testing on natural products is not being done in this country - probably because of the pharmaceutical lobby - not because of the science supporting the efficacy of the substance in treating disease but because it threatens their billion dollar drug biz.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. Actually..... you could buy this product ANYWHERE from a

great number of different manufacturers..... read, it does a body good.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/104-0617316-9994353

[rosesaylavee]

2. Doesn't surprise me - one reason that this is not acceptable to

our US medical establishment is that it is not patentable. (not sure if that is a word?) You make less money off of mother nature than the chemical concoctions created in a lab.

Secondly, the test was done by the Germans - come on, we know that their science is less - well scientific- than ours! :eyes:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Medications are often more costly, much more dangerous... and

certainly a drain on the healthcare system when they cost several dollars a pill.

Nature has so many answers... and these pill pushers want to pollute the world with their chemicals.... but only because the "own" them.

[rosesaylavee]

8. Absolutely. And with the rising cost of standard healthcare

in this country, the mainstream meds are a bit worried about those of us going to healthfood stores and self-medicating naturally. They've succeeded in banning individual substances one at a time - some that needed banning - but still, given the litany of side effects recited for each TV drug commercial - these natural substances are minor nuisances. Ephredra is the only exception I can think of to the above.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. It's only illegal when

other people do it....

http://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=2768&Section=DISEASE

Scientist: Vioxx data not made public

The News and Observer

09-28-05

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) - Alzheimer's disease patients who took Vioxx in two studies had higher death rates than those on a placebo, but Merck & Co. never notified physicians or its sales representatives, its former chief scientist conceded in testimony played in court Tuesday.

Edward Scolnick, former president of Merck Research Laboratories, said under questioning by a lawyer for a postal worker suing the Vioxx maker that doctors prescribing the popular arthritis drug should have been told about the data in 2001.

However, some of the Vioxx users died from causes other than heart attack or stroke, including electrocution, pneumonia, head injury, infection and cancer, Scolnick said on cross-examination by Merck attorney Stephen Raber.

Merck pulled Vioxx off the market last year after a study showed it raised the incidence of heart attacks and strokes. The New Jersey case, filed by Frederick "Mike" Humeston, 60, of Boise, Idaho, is the second trial of about 5,000 product liability lawsuits brought against the Whitehouse Station-based drug maker. Humeston survived a 2001 heart attack two months after he started taking Vioxx to ease pain from an old war wound.

Humeston, a Vietnam veteran who filed his suit in 2003, is to testify Wednesday.

The two Alzheimer's studies, involving about 2,000 patients, were done to determine whether Vioxx could delay the onset or worsening of the neurological disorder. In one, 13 people taking Vioxx died, compared with three taking a dummy pill; in the other, 21 Vioxx takers died, versus nine on placebo.

"You told people about this, right?" Humeston lawyer David Buchanan asked Scolnick in a videotaped May 17 deposition that was played for jurors.

Scolnick, who retired in 2002 and struggled to remember details of Merck's Vioxx studies, said he didn't know whether the data were given to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. It was, according to internal Merck documents later shown to jurors.

Scolnick acknowledged no letter was sent to physicians and that data about deaths among Alzheimer's patients was not added to the information card Merck salespeople used to answer doctors' questions.

"You'd agree mortality data is important and something physicians should know?" Buchanan said.

"It's data the physician should know," said Scolnick.

Merck spokesman Jim Fitzpatrick said outside court that Merck didn't notify physicians or sales reps because the higher death rate among the Vioxx users was "statistically insignificant" - or possibly due to chance - once the deaths from other causes were excluded.

Also Tuesday, Superior Court Judge Carol E. Higbee dealt Merck a pair of strategic setbacks, rejecting motions to keep a cardiology expert from taking the stand on Humeston's behalf and to strike testimony already given by Dr. Benedict Lucchesi as part of the plaintiff's case. <!--

[rosesaylavee]

12. The Pharm Lobby is very powerful...

[Moderator]

14. 4MoronicYears

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. Locking in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6..........

[Hubert Flottz]

13. Thanks for the information, I'll try some...

I'll ask my heart doctor about it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. Good job.... please check these.......

You see.... many many people don't eat enough fruits and vegetables... and even if they did... they may not get an optimal amount of the bioflavonoids that are found in pycnogenol.

First: www.SinatraMD.com <---- 30 year cardiologist.

Second... www.lef.org scroll down on the menu to heart disease or cardiovascular.

Third:

1: Cell Mol Life Sci. 2000 May;57(5):834-41. Related Articles, Links


Pycnogenol inhibits tumor necrosis factor-alpha-induced nuclear factor kappa B activation and adhesion molecule expression in human vascular endothelial cells.

Peng Q, Wei Z, Lau BH.

Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics, School of Medicine, Loma Linda University, California 92350, USA.

The transcriptional regulatory protein nuclear factor kappa B (NF-kappa B) participates in the control of gene expression of many modulators of inflammatory and immune responses, including vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 (VCAM-1) and intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1). The heightened expression of these adhesion molecules has been reported to play a critical role in atherosclerosis, inflammation, ischemic vascular disorders, diabetes, and cancer metastasis. In the present study, we investigated the effect of pycnogenol, an antioxidant phytochemical, on the activation of NF-kappa B and the induction of VCAM-1 and ICAM-1 in tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha-treated human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVECs). Gel-shift analysis of HUVEC demonstrated that pretreatment with pycnogenol exhibited a concentration-dependent suppression of TNF-alpha-induced activation of NF-kappa B. Induction of VCAM-1 and ICAM-1 surface expression by TNF-alpha was dose-dependently reduced by pycnogenol. TNF-alpha significantly increased the release of superoxide anion and hydrogen peroxide from HUVECs. Pycnogenol dose-dependently inhibited their release. The ability of pycnogenol to inhibit NF-kappa B activation and VCAM-1 and ICAM-1 expression suggests that this phytochemical may play an important role in halting or preventing the atherogenic process.

PMID: 10892347



1: J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 1998 Oct;32(4):509-15. Related Articles, Links


Endothelium-dependent vascular effects of Pycnogenol.

Fitzpatrick DF, Bing B, Rohdewald P.

Department of Pharmacology, University of South Florida, Tampa 33612, USA.

Pycnogenol (P) is purported to exhibit effects that could be beneficial in terms of prevention of chronic age-related diseases such as atherosclerosis. The most studied of these effects is its antioxidant/free radical-scavenging activity. In this study, we investigated the possibility that this supplement might produce vascular effects by stimulation of nitric oxide (NO) production by vascular endothelial cells. In the in vitro experiments, P (1-10 microg/ml) relaxed epinephrine (E)-, norepinephrine (NE)-, and phenylephrine (PE)-contracted intact rat aortic ring preparations in a concentration-dependent manner. However, when the endothelial lining of the aortic ring was removed, P had no effect, indicating an endothelium-dependent relaxing (EDR) effect. This EDR response was caused by enhanced NO levels, because the NO synthase (NOS) inhibitor N-methyl-L-arginine (NMA) reversed (or prevented) the relaxation, and this response, in turn, was reversed by addition of L-arginine, the normal substrate for NOS. Pycnogenol-induced EDR persisted after exposure of intact rings to high levels of superoxide dismutase (SOD), suggesting that the mechanism of EDR did not involve scavenging of superoxide anion. In addition to causing relaxation, preincubation of aortic rings with P (1-10 microg/ml) inhibited subsequent E- and NE-induced contractions in a concentration-dependent manner. Fractionation of P by Sephadex LH-20 chromatography resulted in three fractions, one of which (fraction 3, oligomeric procyanidins) exhibited potent EDR activity. These results indicate that P, in addition to its antioxidant activity, stimulates constitutive endothelial NOS (eNOS) activity to increase NO levels, which could counteract the vasoconstrictor effects of E and NE. Furthermore, additional protective effects could result from the well-established properties of NO to decrease platelet aggregation and adhesion, as well as to inhibit low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol oxidation, all of which could protect against atherogenesis and thrombus formation.

PMID: 9781917

1: Biol Pharm Bull. 2000 Jun;23(6):735-7. Related Articles, Links


Pycnogenol protects vascular endothelial cells from beta-amyloid-induced injury.

Liu F, Lau BH, Peng Q, Shah V.

Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics, School of Medicine, Loma Linda University, CA 92350, USA.

The neuropathological hallmarks of Alzheimer's disease (AD) are senile plaques, cerebrovascular beta-amyloidosis, neurofibrillary tangles, and selective neuronal loss. Beta-amyloid (Abeta) has been shown to cause vascular damage mediated by generation of reactive oxygen species and this damage is considered an early event in the development of AD. In this study, we determined the effect of pyenogenol, a potent antioxidant phytochemical, on Abeta-induced cellular injury. Pulmonary artery endothelial cells (PAEC) were exposed to Abeta for 24 h. Cell injury was assessed by measuring cell viability with methylthiazol tetrazolium (MTT) assay, and by determining the release of intracellular lactate dehydrogenase (LDH). Lipid peroxidation products of PAEC were determined by measuring thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances (TBARS). Exposure of PAEC to Abeta resulted in a decrease in cell viability, an increase of LDH release indicating membrane damage, and an elevated level of TBARS. Preincubation of PAEC with pycnogenol significantly minimized these changes. This study demonstrated that pycnogenol can protect vascular endothelial cells from Abeta-induced injury. The data suggest that pycnogenol may be useful for the prevention and/or treatment of vascular or neurodegenerative diseases associated with Abeta toxicity.

PMID: 10864026

1: Phytother Res. 2005 Jul;19(7):647-8. Related Articles, Links


Antimicrobial activity of Pycnogenol((R)).

Torras MA, Faura CA, Schonlau F, Rohdewald P.

Veterinary Faculty, University Autonomous of Barcelona, Spain.

Pycnogenol((R)), a standardized extract of Pinus pinaster bark, was tested for its antimicrobial activity against 23 different pathogenic prokaryotic (gram-positive and gram-negative) and eukaryotic (yeast and fungi) microorganisms. Pycnogenol((R)) inhibited the growth of all the tested microorganisms in minimum concentrations ranging from 20 to 250 microg/mL. Thus, Pycnogenol((R)) in concentrations as low as 0.025% could counteract the growth of all the strains investigated in our study. These results conform with clinical oral health care studies describing the prevention of plaque formation and the clearance of candidiasis by Pycnogenol((R)). Copyright (c) 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 16161029

[SidDithers]

15. What's the point of this post?...

That natural meds sometimes work? Well, duh. Many pharmaceuticals are derived from natural sources. Are you trying to infer that natural products (which may or may not be rigorously tested and may or may not actually contain what the bottle says they contain) are better than perscription meds?

I'm just not sure what your point is. :shrug:

Sid

Edit: Speeling

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. My point is that many companies that make these questionable

supplements are ISO 9001 certified. My other point is that much of the "healthcare crisis" has already been solved.

Google glyconutrients, you'll get it soon enough.