Tonight's vote proves that Republican Lite doesn't work.

[Cascadian]

It's time for a change in the Democratic Party. Not just in California or Washington state, but in the rest of the country, If people think that playing it safe is the best way to get the message through, is very much mistaken. Tonight's election in California proves it.

Gray Davis should have tackled the mess that Pete Wilson left for the state. He should have not ignored Wilson's free-for-all for his buddies at Enron. He also should have found better ways to shore up the huge deficit the state is facing. I am not sure Cruz Bustamante would not be any better.

My biggest fear is that tonight George W Bush has just been given a free ride of 54 electoral votes in 2004. The Democratic Party must win California but the task could be more difficult now.

If Bush does win in 2004, it will be becuase the Democratic Party needs new leadership and people like Terry McAuliffe must step aside as well as people who think like him. The Republican Lite formula is poison and will kill the Dermocratic Party eventually. The Democrats need fiery pasionate and commited leadership not those who cowtow to the Republican right-wing juggernaut.

John

[jiacinto]

1. How do you see this as a mandate for the far left?

Are we following two different elections?

[Classical_Liberal]

3. Nobody said it was

That is just your insulting spin. There was no "far left" candidate running. The two major candidtates were centrist. Furthermore it is doubtful the poster is far left. Certainly centrism didn't help Davis tonight.

[Evanstondem]

12. Davis would have lost as a centrist, liberal or conservative

His positions on the issues were the least of his problems.

[SharonAnn]

5. Well, the voters seem to have elected someone who is

pro-choice, for gun control, against the "insiders", for the "people" who wants to "clean up" the status quo.

That could be a description of a lefty, or a Progressive, or a Populist.

Let's face it, people want change. They want someone who will look out for them and Arnold made it sounde like he's the guy who will do that. That, and the media reinforced that message strongly.

[Code_Name_D]

16. To bad Arnold is going to have an apifiny in the morning.

He already made prommises to Enron.

[whyaduck]

22. Arianna Huffington

pointed out that Arnold took up the mantle of being an "outsider" and a "reformer" just as Bush did in 2000, and it was apparently successful with voters because people do want change. But she added that it doesn't mean anything unless he actually applies his message to governing, and wondered how he could do that when he had special interests written all over his campaign. (I'm paraphrasing - she said it better.)

On Edit: she was interviewed on CNN and the Daily Show tonight

[JackRiddler]

38. Why don't you ever read what's said?

He's not talking about left or right, he's talking about FIGHT or lie down and die.

Fight means: Expose the lying, thieving, fascist demented motherfuckers who run this country for what they are. Don't take shit, like Davis and the majority of the DC, DLC and DNC Democrats. Attack the bastards! Not only on the basis of what the media offers or allows (Gropinator) but for their group crimes, their endless corruption. Otherwise, be doomed.

If you want to call truth-telling "far left," so be it.

[TheDonkey]

45. Because the far left was mentioned?

I don't see where you get this "mandate from the far left" nonsense?

Are we reading 2 different posts?

[jenk]

2. for the repukes, Democrat Lite DOES WORK

They passed bush off as some uniter moderate in 2000, and now arnold.

[AP]

7. They sold bush as a populist, for god's sake.

The votes are in the middle. The Democrats need to explain to people in the middle why fascism doesn't work. They don't need to be arguing to the far left that they're, what, I don't even know.

Camejo and Bustamante and Davis were all saying the same things about the budget and taxes. That's the kind of liberalism that matters.

[FubarFly]

42. The repukes are playing testosterone politics.

b*sh the cowboy vs. Gore the geek.

Terminator Arnie vs. Gray Lady Davis.

Of course b*sh and Arnie are both frauds. But the Dems haven't been smart enough to expose them. And the sad thing is, it wouldn't have been difficult in either case. Cowards tend to show their true stripes when confronted with the unexpected. One of the biggest mistake made in both races, was letting the Pukes control the circumstances surrounding the debates. Each and every time we make this mistake, we will lose.

[AP]

4. What do you think cost Dems this election?

This recall law is designed to remove democratically elected governors. The recall was purchased by the oligarchy. The media had to whore 24-7 to get the pukes a win.

And you think the problem is that the dems didn't run farther to the left, completely abandoing the middle to Arnold?

How many votes did Camejo get? Did I miss something?

The spin on Bustamante was that he was too liberal, and he's 20 points back of Arnold, last I checked.

[JI7]

10. right, it was the media

the media whoring for for arnold all these weeks. and even when the women issues came up, they made it seem as if it was davis who was just doing dirty campaign tricks. never mentioned that davis had nothing to do with it, and many of these things involved things arnold said himself. and they did paint bustamante as liberal. and you are right, how come camejo didn't d oso well, even after the debate which aired nationally and in which i thought he did a good job.

[JackRiddler]

39. A fighter

Would have attacked on the very points you make. As far as I can see from my remote vantage point, Davis took on the first issue (recall undemocratic) but laid off the oligarchy and the media 24-7. It's time to call a spade a spade!

Also, please look at the numbers: Democratic turnout proportionately much lower compared to 2002 than Republican. The Democrats aren't coming out to vote. WHY?

[Mairead]

40. "Davis laid off the oligarchy"

Nacherly...how could he attack his own, right?

[TheDonkey]

46. Not didn't "run" further to the left, didn't govern to Democratic ideals

of the left. He pissed off the republicans from the start, and slowly but surely pissed off Democrats during his terms. No wonder he had no friends and was booted out.

[Booberdawg]

6. More crap

[Classical_Liberal]

8. When your campaign loses expect criticism

.

[dolstein]

11. I hate to point out the obvious

But your left-wing candidates lost by a far larger margin than Davis did.

[dolstein]

9. Dream on buddy, dream on

Your post is so wildly off base it's hard to know where to start.

But why not start with the obvious? If Californians wanted a liberal governor, Cruz Bustamente would be celebrating his victory tonight. If Californians wanted a leftist governor, Arianna or Peter Camejo would be celebrating victory togith. Instead, two-thirds of the voters have rejected the liberal/leftist alternative to Arnold and McClintock. Sorry, it's not even close.

[jpgray]

I don't think the victory was about ideology so much as image

Arnold had the right image, and he was moderate enough on stances to bleed votes that would not go to even a spear-carrier conservative. Of course, the facts are likely quite different, but I believe voters acted more on appearances than ideology. If it was total ideology, CA would likely have Bustamante.

So I don't think saying either "DLCers take warning" or "far-lefts eat it!" is accurate. I think the watchword for today is misdirected anger and frustration. They went for the fake. Shame on us for not putting paid to the fake.

[Classical_Liberal]

15. Bustumante was the campaign manger for Lieberman

campaign in Florida. He was a centrist like Davis. Arianna isn't a a leftist but she is third party which doesn't work well in our system as you well no, certainly not with so little time to campaign.

[Democat]

13. Arnold ran as Republican Lite!

These threads drive me nuts.

Think about it, Arnold ran as a centrist lite-Republican and he won easily.

I don't personally think Democrats should run as Republicans, but your argument makes no sense.

Arnold proved you wrong, not right.

[Classical_Liberal]

17. That is because you are mischaraterizing the argument

really with both candidates running as centrist, what was their for Davis to hit Arnold with other than his exciting and charismatic personality, and sex and hitler scandels? If Davis weren't afraid to attack Enron he would have had a REAL issue with which to blugeon Arnold.

[Democat]

21. Attacking Enron has nothing to do with "centrist"

It has to do with being a coward, perhaps.

Arnold ran about as "centrist" of a campaign as anyone has ever run.

He ran as a Republican and claimed to support Democratic issues. He was willing to alienate the far right to go after Democratic votes, even though he is a Republican.

The guy won because people from both parties voted for him because he was a "centrist".

Arnold proved that not only can running as a centrist work, but it can work incredibly well if done right.

[Classical_Liberal]

24. That only works if you have a party that is far left or right

The democratic party is already centrist, so what does it accomplish for Davis. The republican party on the other hand is the Jerry Falwell Party and most of its politicians reflect that.

[JI7]

26. RIGHT, arnold attacked liberals often

arnold's attacks were specifically on LIBERALS. he attacked government spending and taxation. but didn't come off like a right wing loon by opposing abortion rights, gay rights and other social issues. and his attacks on bustamante was that he was a LIBERAL.

[Cha]

29. Baloney! arnie proved you can run as the freakin' "hands on

terminator" and win...just.

[Q]

14. Forget it...some Dems just don't understand why they're 'losing'...

...and simply refuse to face reality. This type of 'run to the middle' tactic will keep the Dems in a permanent minority.

[Code_Name_D]

19. Another word for center means "cave"

By its vary nature, this serch for the center means the Democrats have to follow the Repugs further and further to the right. The Dems need to be after the mass that are disinfrachised and are not voting. And the resone they are not voting is becase these people are not conviced that the Dems are any diffrent from the Repugs.

Hell, the votors knew about this LONG before Nader said it. Nader was only stating the obveus here in 2000.

The Centrist dems arn't looking for votes in the center, they are looking to take away votors out of the Republican umbrela. The so called Ragan-Democrats. The DLC constantly pines for the good old days of the Dixicrat southern back in the 60's.

Davis lost this race when the first recall patition was printed.

[Cascadian]

20. The bottom line is that there needs to be new leadership....

within the Democratic Party. I sometimes get the feeling that people like Lieberman, Davis, McAuliffe, among others want to lose. Give the power to the Republicans.

This just doesn't work. New leadership should have been in place in the Democratic Party right after the fiasco election in 2002. If this continues, then the Democrats might as well call it a day. We are on our way to a one-party system anyway.

John

[KAZ]

23. There are two on this board that hope ...

desperately for that. Or so it seems. I think Truman had a quote for this.

[Cascadian]

27. I think he said this

"If a Democratic candidate acts like a Republican, the people will vote for a Republican everytime." I think that's how Truman said it.


John

[Robin Hood]

18. I would have to agree.

No more milque toast!

No more big tent!

You're either with us, or against us? Either way, We're gonna blow you away.

No more Mr. Nice guy!

[Cha]

30. Or Ms Nice Guy!

[Brian Sweat]

25. Funny,

Davis got elected and re-elected by confortable margins. The vote totals from tonight do not make any sense to me in light of previous elections. Maybe I should pay more attention to the BBV threads.

[The White Rose]

28. The bottom line is this:

Americans are too tired, too overworked, too disillusioned, and too under-educated to care about policy details, or to REALLY think about the consequences of their actions. We're the exception at DU, not the norm. Most Americans are too busy dealing with their daily grind to reflect on the nuances of political life. Instead they absorb brief sound and video bites of information peddled by a compromised media, and look for a hero to save the day. Schwarzenegger will be governor BECAUSE he's "The Terminator" and that's it. Not because he OR Davis are Republican-lite, and not because Davis did a lousy job as governor, but because Davis is boring and Arnold isn't.

The same applies to American politics in general. Why is it that Republicans are even competitive in a country where the people, if asked about specific policies, are overwhelmingly Left-leaning? Because the Republicans are shameless and cynical, but most of all are masters of simplification. Even a media wholly owned by the Right would find it difficult to get their message across if they were forced to explain the sort of ideas, idealism and policy that shackles the Left. As long as the Left clings to the notion that the electorate will respond to reasoned arguments alone, the Right, appealing to our emotional need for the quick-fix, will remain competitive enough to steal the votes. Like it or not, since Reagan defeated Carter, personal charisma and charm have become the deciding factors in our political process. We ignore it at our peril.

[Cha]

32. I definetly agree with the part about "The terminator"...

"the hands on govenor"..

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. i've gotta cling to this thought......that Arnold is a democratic plant in

the GOP...otherwise i may go totally insane

[Snellius]

35. "Reagan defeated Carter"? And Kennedy defeated Nixon.

Republicans are still much more terrified of a charismatic Democratic white knight than Democrats are of someone like Arnold. That's why they had to crucify Clinton. But if Arnold can be elected Governor of California the door is now open for someone like George Clooney or Julia Roberts as well.

[The White Rose]

36. Kennedy was the start of it,

but it's only since Reagan that we've elected mere figureheads. Clinton is the exception but I'd venture that even such a political genius as Clinton would have struggled to win if he'd had the charisma of Gray Davis. Someone in another thread half-joked that we should draft Martin Sheen; in the current climate maybe that's not a bad idea...

[Woodstock]

31. But the party big wigs will interpret this the opposite

They will say there's a shift to the right.

When really, Dems just didn't like Davis & Bustamonte seemed not much better.

Also there was the implied Kennedy backing of Swarzze...

Your fear is QUITE valid!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. It actually proves the opposite if you look at the numbers

Liberals voted for Davis as did some moderates. He carried women better than men and carried the gay vote as well as Northern California.

It's proof that those of you who think no loaf is better than half a loaf better wake the fuck up.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. they think they invented the idea of a third party

and to tell the truth the only successful third party campaign came from the center.

[brainshrub]

37. Amen! Amen!! Amen!!!

Amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen and a great big Hallelujah!!!! :yourock:

[FubarFly]

41. Solidify your base, project confidence & strength,

and the center will follow.

Alienate your base, compromise your message, and shamelessly pander-
and you wind up with milque toast Republican-lite candidates.

This isn't about "left" or "center". It's about leadership.
It's about honing a consistant message and sticking to it. The harder your message is challenged, the fiercer you should respond. It's about earning respect. Even the people who voted for him, didn't respect Gray Davis. And why should they? What does he stand for?

The Democratic Party has to embrace it's true nature. Liberals should be proud to be liberals. And centrist and conservative Dems should be proud to stand with liberals. Our values are America's true values. No force on Earth should make us betray them- least of all fucking hypocritical, exploitive, greedy, treacherous, Repuke bastards.

It's amazing to me that so many people still don't understand this.

[TheDonkey]

44. Watch out for the DU DLC lovin' sqwad!

You are very right, many New Democrats are taking their base for granted. This only aggrivates us and makes us become
a) disintrested in voting
b) try the other side for a spin
c)JOIN the other side
d)Join a 3rd party

We need to make is look like Rethugs should be trying to pull Democrat-lite in order to look sane and resonable. We've let them take the words fiscally conservative, compassionate, and responsible when we should not of let them and remind the public it's Democrats who bring this to the table. Not "new" Democrats or Centrists but Democrats, period.