This is going to shock us all. We might never stop crying after we

[Seansky]

see them.

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh_children_raped.html

[trotsky]

1. The Bush Legacy.

I wonder if our country will ever recover.

[Seansky]

2. I wonder if the country would even have the guts to see them...

[AFSCME girl]

6. I don't know, seansky, but

we have to...we just have to.....

[Seansky]

8. We do have to. It is as shameful as slavery, massacres, and we have

TONS to apologize to the world for ever having allowed, in any kind of way we were responsible for, this to happen....How could we have, as a country, ever allowed this to happen is beyond me. Every politician that voted for the war is guilty of this for not doing check and balances on what they voted for

[AFSCME girl]

12. You are absolutely right....

My personal feeling (hope) is that the release of these pictures will be a turning point for this country...

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Probably not

*Sigh* They'll try to hide it.

[HEAVYHEART]

3. My heart

is hurting..

[fooj]

48. Yes. The day those pics are released will be a sad day, indeed.

:cry:

[AFSCME girl]

4. Thank goodness for Sy Hersch....

[understandinglife]

52. Most definitely!

Peace.

[charlie]

5. IF we see them

They're doing a swell job of keeping them from us so far. BTW, much, if not most, of our Congress has seen them. I'm hardly hearing a peep about it from them. Nary a tear, either.

[Seansky]

7. You know, I thought about too, and I TRULY BELIEVE it's cause their

complicity...They looked the other way, they voted, they didn't question, they ignored, they protected themselves, they couldn't believe, the FAILED US, all of them, dems and reps...

[calmblueocean]

9. If they ever did exist. they probably don't anymore.

Since we haven't seen them yet (even though they've been rumored for more than a year), and something this explosive is hard to keep secret, my suspicion is that any videos, recordings, etc., have long since seen the inside of a shredder.

The sad thing is that we'll probably never know for sure.

[Seansky]

18. I understood from hearing Hersch speak in a media meeting that he

had some...

[deminks]

10. Some have already seen them...

The images, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress, depict "acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel, and inhuman." After Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) viewed some of them in a classified briefing, he testified that his "stomach gave out." NBC News reported that they show "American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young boys." Everyone who saw the photographs and videos seemed to shudder openly when contemplating what the reaction would be when they eventually were made public.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10043

[Seansky]

28. I remember that and it makes me so angry that so much time has

passed and congress (or any of our dems politicians) haven't dealt with this at all. How can all these cowards claim they can help our country recover the respect of the world when they have sat with this information in their hands and done nothing about it for this long?

Wait until the bloggers take it to the front page, we are suddenly going to have outraged politicians pretend they have heard about this for the first time. Man am I mad....

[titoresque]

30. yes this is beyond

politics! This reminds me of the movie "out of the ashes" when the main character reaches the U.S. and see's an old newspaper with headlines about Auschwitz and is shocked to learn that WE knew and didn't help sooner. This is a question that all our reps need to publically answer! WHERE were you?! Where are you now?!
God dammit!!!! Where are they?!

[whatever4]

11. Heard about this already, so I already processed it

and that's the only reason I can comment on it.

Not that there's much to comment on. There is no excuse for this. Not even for the torture-loving military "gotta do whatcha gotta do" types. This can't fly.

I mentioned rape of children at work a year and a half ago, and the guy I spoke to, real military proponent, even HE didn't have a response to THAT. Except to say it wasn't true. All he had was denial. And even I didn't think they'd done it to that many kids, but those cases are new. I had heard of other cases. Boys and soda bottles, while our military watched foreign forces doing it. He new nothing about it, and I imagine most of the neocons don't either. Denial is all they have, saying it isn't true.

But is it true

Children terrorized and raped. Women raped, made pregnant, and then murdered to cover it up. Can we imagine what all the stories are?

For our peace and security? My good christ, I think not. I think I'd take my chances with an AK and mre's than rest on THAT kind of national security. No, strike that, I KNOW I would.

They're going to do everything they can to suppress this, because there is no good answer for it.

Monsters. I stand by what I've been saying for years now. Trials, convictions, and executions. Treason of the highest magnitude, at the highest levels. Only one way we can recover from that; complete and permanent removal of those responsible.

We need to send a statement to the world, and mark my words, convicting and executing the monsters that allowed and encouraged rapists and murders is the only way we'll ever do it. This is a dept that must be paid in blood. Nothing short of that will ever be enough.

[titoresque]

27. I agree with you!

Nothing short of that will be enough!!!

[norml]

13. I'll read some of this on my show tonight.

Tonight's topic: Crime and Punishment

[90-percent]

14. What's the big deal?

Lyndie England has been tried and convicted and sentenced. Abu Ghraib is over. It's time to move on as a country and get this one little outburst of bad judgement behind us!

-85%
<sarcasm>

[titoresque]

19. 85%

???? huh?

[Seansky]

21. No offense, but if this one weren't so serious, I would push the sarcasm

much further.

[titoresque]

17. which show?

:shrug:

[buzzard]

15. For as long as man has existed and engaged in War and imprisoned

people atrocities have happened, I don't know who sanctioned it or if it was rogue elements within the system but if these people can be identified then I say just put them out of their misery because there are some people that commit acts that are just too sickening to let live.

[Kailassa]

65. Yeah, just sacrifice a few

more bottom-rung soldiers to placate the world, cover it up, then arrange a nice big distraction. Just don't let the world see who was teaching these techniques of humiliation and abuse.

[buzzard]

67. I wasn't saying to sacrifice low level soldiers I was implying they get

rid of those who sanctioned it.

[buff2]

16. Oh, my God no.....

Geez....no wonder they don't show our troops singing to them and giving them candy anymore.This is unacceptable and if I'm being "unpatriotic" for not going along with this sickness then so be it. Since this bunch stole the Oval Office and then we read the mentality of bush's supporters (FReeptards and other sick conservatives) I don't feel like waving the American flag anymore. I am so ashamed of those idiots in power and their sheep being the face of America. We are not all like that. It's the jack booted thugs that are giving us the worst reputation in history. That article is just too damn sick for me to deal with. I'm getting off here for a while before my head explodes. This depressed state I'm in is killing me.:cry:

[Seansky]

23. sorry, but too many have been ignoring this for too long and we won't

have an alternative, but face how horrible this is. I wonder if there is anyone out there that could post this in the freepers site and ask how would they answer to it...I like to see what spin they come up with.

[Walt Starr]

20. Democrats should use a meme like this

"And the Republicans referred to this stuff as Frat Pranks??? What the hell kind of a fraternity do Republicans join???"

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. I dare them to keep wearing those horrid

orange t-shirts rush sells after seeing these pictures.

[praisethelowered]

22. We have to aknowledge this. . . it is being done in our name.

After Abu Grahib NOBODY can claim it was a few bad apples. It is policy.

. . . and there are victims who have been killed and hurt . . . and the perpetrator is the USA. That means ALL of us. Whether we voted for bush or not. . . every day we let him stay in power we are complicitous.

[Seansky]

25. Can this be posted it in Freeper's site and ask what they think????

I wonder if there is anyone out there that could post this in the freepers site and ask how would they answer to it...I like to see what spin they come up with.

[teach1st]

31. A conservative friend...

..but not a Bush supporter, told me he is against their release because, if the reports of the pictures' contents are valid, releasing the pictures would endanger our soldiers.

[grumpy old fart]

33. It would save lives, 'cause it would bring this war to a screeching halt

The shame of this nation would bring the troops home immediately, and an outcry for Rummy's head on a pike. In my dreams, at least.

[Seansky]

36. the soldiers are save today? wow, i didn't know that...

[grumpy old fart]

37. ???...n/t

[Seansky]

38. sarcasm. conservative says release would put soldier in danger

[grumpy old fart]

39. Ah, I see. Was confused by your posting as reply to mine....eom

[peacebaby3]

34. I support releasing the pictures.

But what your friend said is true. It will probably endanger the soldiers even more. I feel bad for the good guys/girls that are over there just trying to make it home.

Of course, some of the horrible soldiers over there seem to have no problem with the world knowing how they feel. Check out what is going on with all of this as well:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4911471>

[burythehatchet]

50. I know what would prevent that

FUCKING BRING THEM HOME!!!

[RagingInMiami]

54. That's a sorry excuse

They're at war out there. The Iraqis or insurgents or terrorists or freedom fighters or whatever you want to call them are already trying to kill them.

This will obviously give them more anger, but it's still a sorry excuse.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. And to think

Rumsfeld had the authority to stop all of this but he didn't. He should be put in the Hague with Bush and the rest of them.

[Davis_X_Machina]

29. If you are having trouble staying awake...

...nights, you might wish to contemplate that there are probably 35 million of your fellow citizens who have no problems with such acts, consider them justified, or funny, or cool. They'd buy the CD-ROM if the Government Printing Office put it in the catalogue, and e-mail each other links to the pictures.

Some people, not all, but some, are simply shits.

And in a nation of 300 million, give or take, that's a lot of shits.

[grumpy old fart]

32. I love the guy, but Hersh is gonna need to back up these claims....

with some real evidence, not just some anonymous source's words...

In a related Abu Gahreb article, Sy reported: "Gary Myers, Frederick’s civilian attorney, told me that he would argue at the court-martial that culpability in the case extended far beyond his client, “I’m going to drag every involved intelligence officer and civilian contractor I can find into court...”

but then this:

Staff Sgt. Ivan Chip Frederick II, of Buckingham, Va.: Pleaded guilty at a general court-martial; sentenced to eight years, dishonorable discharge.

It's not the same thing, this wasn't anything in Sy's control, but saying things just doesn't make 'em so.

[Seansky]

35. will see with the judge's rule to release the photo

[90-percent]

40. few bad apples

In my opinion, almost all of America think's this is all Lyndie England's doing and now that she's been sentenced we can all move on and be pure and truthful and lovable again.

I'd say about 1% of America realizes this is a result of Military policy approved at the highest levels of our government, ie; The White House, Pentagon and Attorney General's office.

Release all the images NOW and show the entire World the glory of American GREATNESS!

The plus side is that raping children in front their parents forced them to turn over valuable intelligence that may someday prove to have helped shorten this conflict by at least 3 minutes!

-85%

[Seansky]

41. oh man. too much

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. What do you mean by 85%? Is it about Lyndie England?

[90-percent]

43. 85%

85% is the max allowable percentage of nitromethane fuel allowed for Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars.

I'm a left wing nitro fan.

-85% Jimmy

[Bernardo de La Paz]

44. Your profile seems to indicate 90%. Anyways, putting down 85% is obscure

[90-percent]

45. rules change

It was 90% after doug herberts explosion at pomona around 2000 and they bumped it down to 85% last year when too many slicks were exploding on the top end. They dont want the cars going over 340 mph.

obscure, yes, but probably less than the Zappa stuff I'm interested in.

-85% Jimmy

[bobbieinok]

47. haven't many said 50-90% of prisoners just in wrong place at wrong time

[flyarm]

49. i believe Lindsay Graham has substantiated Sy Hersh...

Russ quotes Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

as has the judge in the aclu case!

[grumpy old fart]

63. I hear ya, but nobody is putting this in the public domain...makes little

sense, except from some conspiracy theory viewpoint. I don't think Hersh comes at thing from a tinfoil hat angle, and expect he would agree that more concrete evidence needs to be exposed.

[frictionlessO]

56. Well I can personally vouch for having seen one photo (was actually part

of a series that was put online as an article and scrubbed fairly quickly there after). It looked to be a younger Iraqi female (though age was hard to determine) with bruised and swollen eyes, there is a caucasians mans hands forcing her head forward while she's obviously crying onto what looks to be another caucasians mans penis. There is a third caucasian hand that seems to be pulling open her mouth.. the front of her blouse ripped. All the men are in green BDUs... even the man whose penis is sticking out from said BDUs.

It is an obvious rape of an Iraqi girl by white men in BDUs.

[Old Mouse]

61. I think those have been debunked

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38464

[frictionlessO]

64. well its WND...

not exactly what I would use to debunk something with and after having done a lot of research on it. I still can't tell if the originating porn site got them before or after the other images from AG were taken.

I will say this having scene the other sick pics now that accompany this series, I feel pretty confident that these are not US military and in actuality it looks like a Bosnia thing... Though the poor girl in the pic seems to have a much darker complection than the average Muslim in the region.

Thank you for the correction... its much appreciated.

[Oilwellian]

66. Hersh saw the videos

If I'm not mistaken, the soldier who turned over the photos and videos, turned them over to Hersh. When Hersh gave a speech, can't recall which crowd it was, he described the sound of a boy shrieking while being sodomized, and it will always be in his head. I assume DoD confiscated the material but I'd be surprised if Hersh didn't make copies and will eventually release them if all other attempts fail.

The Iraqi people already know we did this to their people. It's time for Americans to understand our brand of "democracy" will never work for them...obviously.

[BreweryYardRat]

46. Urk.

I know I tend to be farther to the right on most war issues than the majority of DUer's, but...Jesus...there's a line in the sand. Rape is NOT acceptable, especially when it happens to children.

I want everyone responsible for this tried, convicted, and preferably dispatched ASAP.

[indepat]

51. Absolutely everyone who supports this cabal supports this IMHO

[bonito]

53. I can't even go there but if what I'm hearing is true

Those responsible Must be brought to justice. If the truth isn't brought out we will forever be chained by these events.

[triguy46]

55. Not Frist, not Delay, not rita, not katrina...

If these descriptions are true, if in fact there are videos of such atrocities, then this might be the thing that drags the bastards down. time will tell...

[DawgHouse]

57. I agree. I've tried to brace myself. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. and why these bastards belong at the Hague

not a private for god sakes, but the POTUS

[undergroundpanther]

60. Kill all the pedophiles and torturers they have no right to exist

We have to stop these pigs.If they seek positions of power to get away with this shit,then we need to get them out of power and dead any way we can. Enough is enough.Some people do not rehabilitate because they don't have a consience, so kill them.They cannot be trusted around human or animal life.

[Old Mouse]

62. Please keep your heads

or you will miss the bigger crime.

It is obvious by the memos and lack of support for the international court that the torture of civilians was not only expected, but planned long in advance of the invasion.

Well, we also know that those who planned the invasion knew there was no terrorist connection to Iraq.

Then why set up the ability to torture civilians, on film, for information they knew didn't exist?

If we lose composure when these photos come out we'll never find out who they were intended for.

[phusion]

68. Wouldn't these kind of images/videos

be illegal to possess in the US?

I'd say it's very unlikely these will be released.

That's really horrible shit.