Reading a book called Election 2004: How Bush/Cheney won

[LittleClarkie]

and what to expect from here, or something like that. It was put together by Newsweek staff.

Have you read it, and what do you think? I found myself getting depressed (well, that's an understatement. I burst into tears, to be honest. Wrong time of the year to rehash the election, I guess.)

[MissMarple]

1. It made you feel a bit helpless?

:hug: Things will turn around a bit. This is a struggle that is never over. Ever.

[Melodybe]

2. chin up, they are having a really, really bad summer

enjoy it.

[MissMarple]

3. Do I feel their pain?

huh uh. :)

[Melodybe]

4. It does feel good

Ann Coulter saying that we wanted to throw them all into Gitmo had to be a high point yesterday.

That still makes me laugh, if only she knew how right she was.

:evilgrin:

[Der Blaue Engel]

5. If it's not using the word "won" with irony

I wouldn't put too much stock in what it has to say. Newsweek isn't a source I'd particularly trust.

[LittleClarkie]

8. I think it was when I got to the part where he was in Milwaukee

and they said he was crisp and sharp here in a way that he hadn't been elsewhere. It was the reminder of the rally, the one where I froze my feet off and got to shake his hand, that sent me over the edge. That and remembering the hope.

But the book has no tinfoil in it. I've gotten used to the tinfoil when I think about 2004.

[Silverhair]

16. An RW friend of mine thinks Newsweek is too far left. NT

[texpatriot2004]

6. Hmm have not read it but I should n/t

[marions ghost]

7. Thanks for the book reference

I will look for it. The election is still an open wound so I'm not surprised it was disturbing reading that, but at least we are trying to pay attention and ask questions. The reason some people don't want to know is because they can't face the depressing truth.

Here are a few MORE hot new books about the 2004 election that might add to your perspective....
------------------

FOOLED AGAIN--How the Right Stole the 2004 Election
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465045790/qid=1127138419/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books
(this one available from booksellers very soon)

THE CRISIS OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The Presidential Elections of 2000 and 2004
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1875639365/qid=1127138649/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books

WAS THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION STOLEN? Exit Polls, Electon Fraud, and the Official Count
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1583226877/qid=1127138839/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books

DID GEORGE BUSH STEAL AMERICA'S 2004 ELECTION?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0971043892/qid=1127139012/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books

STEAL THIS VOTE: DIRTY ELECTIONS AND THE ROTTEN HISTORY OF DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560256761/qid=1127139166/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books

WHAT WENT WRONG IN OHIO: THE CONYERS REPORT ON THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089733535X/qid=1127139306/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7076526-8691966?v=glance&s=books

[LittleClarkie]

10. I'm not sure what you mean about facing the truth

This book has nothing that even hints at a stolen election. Which is "the truth": that Kerry ran a lousy campaign with some bright spots in it and almost made it anyway, or that he did win and it was stolen. The first one is what you will find in this book, even though many of us subscribe to the second.

And there are those who'd say the fraud folk are the ones not facing the depressing truth. Even so, I still have trouble looking at Bush and thinking "President."

[LisaM]

12. Like they covered Kerry's campaign. Undermined it is more like it

giving all that airtime to the Swift Boat Liars, allowing Dan Rather to be scapegoated for trying to tell the truth about Bush, and on and one.

[marions ghost]

13. I understand that the book you're talking about

does not mention the possibility of election manipulation, and therefore only deals with why Bush/Cheney got as many votes as they did...and I'm sure that is depressing.

However since you are talking about the election of 2004, it seems relevant to bring up the other perspective which may have an impact on the first. Just thought people might appreciate the new books about it. There are all kinds of election fraud--these particular books do not go into any depth on the electronic voting--they mostly deal with the other kinds of fraud, and the problems inherent in a system that has no adequate safeguards against it. And no political will to deal with it.

Yes I realize there are 2 sides and each have a different version of the 'truth'...both sides are worth looking at IMO. It's not an either/or thing, in that one excludes the other. I suspect a combination of both.

-----------------

Heres' what one reviewer said about the omission of ANY reference to the election "irregularities" in the Newsweek book--(from the Amazon page you posted):

..."Then there's Ohio. Although I'm not one for conspiracy theories there was obvious foul play in the weeks preceding and on election day; from Secretary of State Blackwell's flip-flopping on voting regulations, to the Rove people calling people in strong democratic precincts by phone and advising them to vote at the wrong place, to the lack of a voting records paper trail. Yes, there are irregularities on every election, but when all the irregularities favor the same candidate, I get a bit skeptical. Alas, this subject seemed too controversial for Newsweek."

[LittleClarkie]

14. I was mostly looking for a clarification of your comment

that facing the truth hurts. Which truth were you talking about when you said that some people don't want to face the depressing truth? "Fraud" truth or "Kerry's campaign sucked" truth or simply "Kerry lost" truth?

Me confused. Please enlighten.

[marions ghost]

15. OK

attempting to clarify...

I think it is far easier for the average voter to accept that a)Kerry's campaign sucked or b) Bush/Cheney's fear-based agenda sold well, etc--than it is to believe that we have a voting system that cannot be trusted. There is a huge resistance to thinking that. I saw cases of election fraud back in the 90's that went completely uninvestigated and unprosecuted, so I have no trouble believing that it happens far more often than people realize. The evidence for it in the last election is nothing short of overwhelming. The system is extremely vulnerable to fraud and manipulation, casting a shadow on any outcome.

This does NOT mean that opinions about why each candidate got the support they got are irrelevant. Certainly that must be analyzed, and it has been done extensively. But what concerns me now is the omission of the well-documented, widespread election irregularities in a book put out by Newsweek. So I was referring to the fact that most people do not want to look too closely at the voting system. The media certainly DOESN'T want to look at it. In omitting this, they reinforce the idea that it's not an issue. In this they hurt the cause of voting reform no less than anti-war activists are hurt by lack of protest coverage by the media.

Most voters have come to terms with the fact that Bush/Cheney won somehow (and even Republicans should be feeling some depression about that by now...) So perhaps now we can look more critically at the case for system wide abuses of the election system. But maybe BOTH of these taken together--the image wars of 2004 PLUS the election questions--are just too overwhelming for many activists, and people who really care. Believe me, I share your depression...I'm not questioning you, just saying...there may be even more reasons for depression than the Newsweek book covers.

[garybeck]

9. where did you get the book? Amazon link? publisher?

please reference, thanks

[LittleClarkie]

11. Library. But I went and looked it up on amazon for ye. Here's the link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586482939/qid=1128104859/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-1917085-8407205?v=glance&s=books