Has democracy in America jumped the shark?

[Brian Sweat]

I'm starting to think that it has. I think it left the ramp on Dec. 12, 2000 and landed on the other side of the net tonight. I have always been an optimist, but I just cannot understand how people can vote the way they did tonight. Either tonights results were the result of a rigged election or the American voters have decended into utter stupidity.

If it is the former, then democracy is dead. If it is the latter, then it should be.

[0rganism]

1. It's dead and it should be.

While I recognized that the recall's success was a distinct possibility, I also thought the results would be close. This thing is nowhere near close. Arnold may actually get a true majority when this is said and done, which bodes ill for the upcoming re-recall.

Celebrity demagogues were one of the primary hazards the founders sought to avoid. Apparently, that's no longer possible.

[oxycontinrush]

4. Rubbish... a candidate needs to have passion to win

A Paul Wellstone would have eaten Arnold and spit him out today.

You simply can't base these statements on a very weak candidate who had no passion running against a celebrity with a KENNEDY wife.

[Brian Sweat]

7. It hasn't got anything to do with the candidate.

Gray Davis was fairly re-elected and almost immediatly that started the recall. Obviously, you don't like Gray Davis, but no one here gives a fuck what you like. The GOP did an end run on democracy and the stupid idiots in Colliefornia just smiled and went along with them.

[0rganism]

9. In case you haven't noticed, Paul Wellstone is DEAD

Rubbish indeed. He left this mortal coil in the death grip of a malfunctioning small aircraft. As did Mel Carnahan and Robert KENNEDY jr., within a span of about four years. When Paul Wellstone died, something died in me. I think that something vital and progressive died for a lot of us, all over the country, that cold day in October.

Paul Wellstones don't grow on trees, in case you haven't noticed. His was a unique voice, of an increasingly rare sort within the Democratic party. His death was a gut shot to the American left. His memorial was turned into a media farce, a devastating combo move from the conservative lapdog press, and put us on the ropes in 2002. The rest of the match is just a matter of mopping up for the TKO in 2004.

The opposition in America is reeling, not from any lack of principles, but from following "gentleman's rules" in presenting them to voters.

[AP]

17. Anyone that good probably would have found themselves at the bottom of the

bay.

[angka]

2. thank god somebody used this analogy

because i was about to.

[oxycontinrush]

3. Don't base a statement like that on Gray Davis

Gray Davis was never a good candidate. He won because of the mutts the GOP ran against him previously.

[Tanketra]

5. As opposed to THIS group of mutts?

Gray Davis may or may not have been a good candidate ... but Arnold Schwarzenegger SHOULD have been a TERRIBLE candidate. And, frankly, the opponent of "Recall -- Yes" should ALSO have been a terrible "candidate".

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if there's a point to the Democratic Party. If we can get gamed THIS badly, maybe we just need to take the whole concept out back and shoot it, and come up with something else (Populist/Social Democratic/Green/whatever).

[oxycontinrush]

12. Arnold wasn't a terrible candidate with Maria propping him up

I think a lot of people are underestimating the effect Maria had on independents and moderate Dems.

[Vulture]

18. Major defection is the problem

The problem IS the Democratic Party. I know many otherwise "reliable" Democrats who voted for Schwarzenegger and even *McClintock*, who also voted "Yes" on the recall. The statistics seem to confirm that the Dems I know aren't the only ones. The problem is that if you look at the slate of politicians offered, the Democrats had some really weak candidates whereas the main Repub candidates, while not spectacular in any kind of objective sense, were at least palatable to a significant percentage of the population. When I try and think of a high profile Democratic candidate in California that I really truly like, the best I can come up with is Willy Brown; most of them are downright mediocre.

The Democrat party in California is now plagued by the same problem that plagued the Republican party in California for so long: a never-ending slate of forgettable candidates. The Republicans now have Schwarzenegger and a potential sleeper in McClintock who is looking pretty golden in a statistical and voter perception sense despite his extreme right-wing views. I see a US Senate battle in the future with him.

I can tell you what happened. The Democrats got WAY too comfortable with their power in California and it bit them in the ass. In a certain sense, it kind of serves them right and hopefully they'll learn.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi Vulture!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Brian Sweat]

6. How good of a candidate Gray Davis might be is not an issue.

Davis was re-elected last year. Almost immediatly afterwards, they began the recall effort. The fact that the majority of the people in California could not see that this was an end run around democracy just goes to show that the majority of the people in America are too stupid to deserve democracy.

[Antiacus2003]

8. I'm with Tanketra

The entire deal is coming off it's hinges. It's time for a major change. It's not like you can say "change now or the results will be catastrophic". Catastrophy has long been upon us folks.

There needs to be a new gameplan.

[Brian Sweat]

10. What new game plan

Democracy was the worst form of government save all the rest.

I am seriously considering leaving the country. Some people will say that that is the cowards way out and that I should stay and fight, but I'm not fighting unless I have something for which to fight and I don't think America is worth fighting for anymore.

[Matilda]

14. This is how new parties do come into being.

When the current parties no longer fulfil people's expectations.

[YourDad]

11. I suggest we get out now

I'm not even moving to Canada, I'm moving to Europe. I am getting as far as possible from this place.

[FDRrocks]

13. Nah, chill for a bit

It isn't that bad........ Welcome...ah... to DU :hi::hi::hi::hi:

[YourDad]

15. Hi

Thank you for welcoming me. i don't want to sound paranoid but this is eerily similar to europe before the nazi invasions, it's creepy how similar they are. The jews who left before the nazis came in were the only ones who made it out alive.

[FDRrocks]

16. Well Canada is well enough for me.

I am not moving until at least 6 years, and it is not due to current situations, just always felt something drawing me towards BC.

I agree, the 'free speech' zones and extreme nationalism the right wing is showing couple with our massive arms industry is very freaky. Not to mention our frivilous foreign adventures since ... well since the westward expansion.

Have fun in Europe. I'm a pacifist but should another fascist uprising against the freer parts of the world occur, I will join the military wherever i may be and give my life fighting it.

edit: I've also read that after the Reichstag was burned in Germany a law passed that suspended habeus corpus, among other things, that had a sunset provision, much like the Patriot Act. It is freaky. I know we used Nazi intelligence after WW2, I am just not sure for what.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi YourDad!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AP]

19. Notice how Republicans intentionally screw up the economy and then figure

out way to depose a Democrat by blaming him for what the Repbulicans have done?

That's a very bad thing.