What does DU think about Barack Obama?

[Seen the light]

He's probably my top pick to be the nominee in 2008. What do you all think? Is he still too green for the American people?

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. Needs some seasoning.

Need to see if he'll step away from the path the DLC has laid out for him.

[Maat]

4. Precisely, NCevilDUer!

He's behaving like the typical newbie right now.

Reads the dialog they set out in front of him, when they tell him to.

[Seen the light]

7. I have hopes that he will

Such an honorable and decent human being, he's still probably testing the waters of being a US senator.

[LynneSin]

He isn't DLC (links included!). They tried to claim him but he didn't go

http://www.dlc.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm

After the elections he showed up in their database but Obama pulled out of the DLC. If you check their list now - he's not in there anymore

This is from DailyKOS:

http://route66.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/16/113148/885
DLC: Oh, I guess Obama isn't one of us
by kos
Wed Mar 16th, 2005 at 08:31:48 PDT
Twice the DLC has tried to claim credit for Obama, slapping him up on their list of members, and for the second time, they've had to back down. Their original defiant post:

He even took the trouble to dig down in our web page--bypassing a few hundred thousand pages of policy work, which is what we do to pass the time while waiting for the next call from Fox News--and discover that Sen. Barack Obama is still listed in our data base! Scandal! (He's in there because he recently joined the Senate New Democrat Coalition, all of whose members are in our database, which is about as controversial as a phone book).
Except that, er, they were wrong. The post was later updated:
UPDATE: Turns out I was misinformed about Obama's being a member of the Senate New Democrat Coalition. The misunderstanding was based on the two different meanings of "New Democratic Senators," but we were wrong about that, and have removed his name from our Directory. Still love the guy, though.
They may love the guy, but Obama want's nothing to do with the DLC. Remember, Obama raised over $3 million from MoveOn members, the very organization the DLC wants purged from the party's ranks. We know where Obama's loyalties lie, and it's wiith the netroots. He's one of ours.
This little episode also highlights the DLC's interesting tactic of slapping up people on the list without asking for permission to do so, an attempt to take credit for peoples' success. Most politicians won't give a damn, but it's damn weird for an organziation to have "members" when those people never asked to be members.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Excellent news.

Let's see how he handles his re-election (when would that be?) and maybe I could support him for 2012. I do like most of what he says, and if his votes are sometimes iffy, he is still a first term senator and he needs to walk carefully in the senatorial minefield.

[LynneSin]

47. But why not Vice President?

I agree the guy isn't ready to be President, but I think he would be fabulous as Vice-President.

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. Only for the simple fact that if a person is not ready to be

president, he's not ready to be vice president. We've seen the VP have to step up all too often.

[ripple]

49. I think he's ready

To me, the experience issue is more about whether the public will elect him based on the experience he has.

Granted, B*** didn't have shit for experience, but I think people overlooked that, due to his FAMILY's experience. They mistakenly assumed he would know what the hell he was doing.

Obama has the insight and the knowlege to be president. I'm certainly not opposed to the VP idea, either, though.

[LynneSin]

50. Well then why did we have John Edwards on the dem ticket?

That's a rhetorical question. Edwards had no political experience before he ran for senator but I think he would have made a fine VP. I think Obama would also be fine as Vice President and if he had to step in he would be ok!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. He voted to confirm Rice and for that I have great reservations about him.

[Benhurst]

5. He's a work in progress. As a supporter, I have been

disappointed; but I have been encouraged by his recent stands.

I still hope he will evolve into the kind of leader I had hoped he would be.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. When candidates for 2008 are mentioned, I don't want a work in progress. I

need someone who is very clear on their stands, without influence from anyone else. I would love Gore/Boxer or Gore/Conyers or Boxer/Conyers.

[Michigander4Dean]

26. That's one vote - he also voted against Roberts

Nobody's perfect.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. The you don't understand how much I detest Rice being confirmed as

Secretary of State. She is a known murderer, leading us into an illegal, immoral war.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. i like him

but i cant see america vote for a black president..i just dont see it

[Imalittleteapot]

8. Agreed. It's questionable if

a woman can get elected, much less a black.

I hope he won't dissappoint us by getting his direction from the DLC. If he stays true to the Obama we saw at the convention, he stands a chance to run for President, but not in 2008.

I really like him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. i think a woman has even less chance than a black man

they did a study on this...women are trusted in positions of power less than black men

[jeff30997]

10. Maybe in a few hundred years.

Sigh!

[I Have A Dream]

14. Interestingly, I personally feel that Americans would have...

more trouble with a woman as president than an African American male as president. I think that they'd think that the woman would be competent in most areas, but they wouldn't think that she'd be able to be tough enough in conflict situations. (I don't personally believe this at all, but I think that many Americans do.) I think that if an African American man is charismatic (which I think that Obama is), there'd be little resistance to him because of his race. If this is true, it says quite a bit for how we've grown as a country.

I think that most Americans see two different kinds of African Americans. The first group contains the underprivileged black people in America. For some reason, many people think that this group brought their current situation on themselves. (I think that they also think this way about poor white people as well, but not quite as much.) The second group contains black people who've been able to be "successful" in the eyes of the average American. I think that most Americans see this group of people the same way that they see successful white people, for the most part. This is progress. There's still much work to do in reference to changing perceptions in reference to the first group.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i hate saying this

but if we put an woman or a minority...i dont think theres any chance in 2008...maybe i am cynical...but i dont think so

[I Have A Dream]

20. Luckily, I don't think that Obama would be ready by 2008...

anyway. Maybe by 2012 we'll have made even more progress.

It's so sad to see that countries like England and Europe have female heads of state without any problems, and many Americans can't even imagine it. Why are we so backwards??? :(

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. My thoughts also, but my reasoning is

that they will fix the election, as they did the last two, and blame our loss on our choice of candidates. Of course, if we choose two white married males as our candidates, they will put up a minority/female as their VP and then fix the election, blaming our loss on our choice of candidates.

Who we put up is moot, if we don't fix the problems with the electronic vote counting first.

Voter verified paper ballots is the only way we will win.

[MN ChimpH8R]

6. Smart, charismatic and a hell of a speaker

but he needs a little more experience at the national level. I sometimes worry about him when he does something like vote to approve CondImelda. His heart's in the right place, and he needs to go more with it.

Altogether a good guy, and probably the first African-American President someday.

[longship]

12. I like him, but he's too green.

Right now I see him neck deep in power politics in the Senate. Until he changes that and becomes his own Senator, I can't support him for national office. Give him a few years and he may become a great senator. He just has to stay away from the DLC which is courting him big time.

[Imagine My Surprise]

13. He lost me when he supported the pro-corporate bankruptcy rule changes...

this will SCREW so many people.

[Spike from MN]

44. Actually, he voted against it.

Here's a link to the vote tally:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044

As for the original question, I thought he was great when he gave his speech at the DNC but I have been disappointed with him since he got elected. Personally, I don't agree that if you're new to DC, you need to keep your trap shut and do whatever your party says. I don't vote for someone so he/she can go to Washington and march in lock-step with the DLC. I vote for someone that will stand by his/her principles regardless. Think Wellstone. Barack pretty much lost me when he didn't stand with Boxer on the objection to the Ohio electoral ballot. It looked to me like he lost his spine pretty quickly once he got to DC and we have enough spineless Dems already. Yeah, I'm probably going to get flamed for this post but that's where I'm at.

[notadmblnd]

15. I heard him speak during the convention and I thought he was wonderful

however, my feelings about him have cooled off the few times I've seen him since. IMO, he's become too close to the Mepublicans for my comfort.

[Imagine My Surprise]

17. Exactly.

[ducque]

18. Have a CAREFUL READ of Obama's article on Kos today

at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/30/102745/165

before any of you want to try to "trash" him.

This is a big league, long distance political leader.

I have personally met him on a couple of occasions, long enough to have short but serious conversations. I can only say that this person does not walk on the same ground as the rest of us.

The only question is whether people would judge him to have enough "maturity". Obviously that "maturity" would measured by how many years in office, and not by his actual maturity, which is considerable.

[mattclearing]

23. Thanks for this, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

Edit: Wow. Obama has some really impressive things to say about just about everything. I wish every Dem senator had a DKos diary.

[Atman]

38. "...does not walk on the same ground as the rest of us."

The fuck him.

I know you meant well, but that is PRECISELY the reason I cannot support him. I read his diary carefully. Very carefully. And it left me with that familiar taste of Appeasement Stew in my mouth.

I WANT someone to walk on the same ground as me, to see America as real Americans see it. I'm sick to death of all these legislators who don't walk on the same ground as you and me. The founding fathers wanted them to. That is the reason their terms were set so short, so that average citizens could participate in government and allow our voice to be heard.

Instead, we get career grandstanders who get immediately addicted to the dinners, parties, cameras, campaign cash, celebrity, and then they stay forever. Part of the problem is that you DID meet him. Of course he is an affable, polite, well-spoken man. Charismatic. And I think that can only jade one's perspective. His actions are what matter, not his writing style, manners, nice suits, articulate speeches...it's his actions that matter.

And this KOS diary reeks of the positions of just another appeaser who does not fully understand the foe he faces.

[never cry wolf]

59. AWESOME Link! Thanks for posting

O'Bama's diary on Kos deserves it's own thread.

[Atman]

19. I assume you're talking about his KOS diary?

If not, read it first, then come back...

Barack Obama's Daily KOS diary

Now, this is what I got out of that very well-written, thoughtful diary;

Oh shit, same 'ol same 'ol, from yet another person who puts too much faith in the GOP to act like actual humans.

He seems to be making all the same "mistakes" which have caused us so much problem in effectively dealing with the GOP. That is, his approach comes with the assumption that if we simply work with the republicans, they'll suddenly change their evil ways.

He makes the case that middle America generally doesn't think ill of the GOP, so therefore we shouldn't point out what the GOP is doing, because it makes US look crazy. What ever happened to EDUCATING them, Mr. Obama? So what if Mom & Pop Redstate think the GOP is looking out for them...they only believe that because of a complicit media which steadfastly refuses to air anything substantially negative about The Party. Obama doesn't seem to realize that. In fact, I think this is probably a major curse of ANY legislator, saddled with a never-ending schedule of speeches, dinners, fundraisers and personal appearances; they are seeing the world from behind the podium. They see a sea of CNN cameras and MSNBC dishes and assume that those people are actually covering the stories, rather than manipulating them or even filing them away from public view.

Too many, if not ALL, of these guys live in a bubble that simply does not -- can not -- allow them to see the world as so many of the rest of us do. These Congressmen are not going home at night and plunking themselves down in front of the television, as Mom & Pop are, so they only see their specially created versions of what is happening, as reported to them by their staff or in rah-rah self congratulatory newsletters and press releases.

Obama's position is nothing short of fantasy. It is well written, well thought out, but its research appears to ignore an entire side of the discussion. He is still coming from the perspective of fairness and inherent underlying goodness of the GOP, which only needs to be dealt with nicely and they'll come around. His rationale appears to be that America thinks we're hysterical when we point out the factual manipulation and outright fraud the party perpetrates against the people every day, so therefore we should play along to get along. And eventually our goodness will come shining through.

I say, horse hockey. Obama needs to grow a spine and quit being a Pollyanna, just the rest of our pathetic party "leadership." And I do use that term very loosely.

[ToolTex]

21. He is too much the appeaser for me.

Voting for Condoselzza Rice so he could "work with her" and the bankruptcy bill for who knows what reason, was too much for me. I had huge hopes for him, but I can't trust him enough to support him.

[wiley]

40. Obama has several iPod casts on iTunes

He doesn't come off as spineless as far as I'm concerned.

[wiley]

41. But he shouldn't run for POTUS in 08 anyway

We need him where he is, where he can get some things done.

[mattclearing]

22. A little young.

He hasn't really established himself yet. Of course, sometimes that's a good thing.

[Michigander4Dean]

35. Delete | nt

[WI_DEM]

25. He was just elected in '06, so I don't want him to run in '08

give him some time.

[Michigander4Dean]

28. You mean '04?

Or was he elected in the future? :D

[WI_DEM]

34. yep I meant '04, but I'm thinking of the future.

[Michigander4Dean]

37. Good for you | nt

[Michigander4Dean]

27. I think he said noto a 2008 run

If so, VP in 2008? What about 2016?

[Dr Fate]

29. I mostly like the guy. n/t

n/t

[napi21]

30. I like him, but he's far too green for 08.

I think that's why we don't have a President Dean right now! National politics is a very dirty, rough game. Even with the best consultants, a candidate has to have built up a lot of caloses to be able to survive.

[Tower]

31. If he's not DLC, her certainly smells like it.

The fact that the media and Democratic Party establishment pushed him so hard after the convention makes me like him even less. It makes me think he's considered an "acceptable" candidate by all the wrong people.

That's what I think.

[Michigander4Dean]

33. Delete | nt

[Tower]

39. Apparently the question should've been:

"Tell me- how do you love Obama?".

Because "not so much" is not an acceptable answer.

[acmavm]

36. He's disappointed me several times. And he sure wouldn't make my

short list of candidates in 2008.

[ripple]

42. Obama, Obama, Obama!!

The Daily KOS piece is just a nice sample of where he is coming from. He's a realist, a pragmatic thinker, well-spoken, charismatic, and genuine.

I would love to see him run in '08, before he has a long Senate voting record that can be easily attacked and distorted by the other side. Hell, his voting record is already being attacked by THIS side. Obama actually has some qualities that, to me, are somewhat similar to Clinton. He believes in choosing his battles wisely, knowing that if he disagrees with every single thing the republicans do, it will dilute the message when issues that DEMAND a fight come along.

Oh, and he's absolutely right. Few people will EVER find a candidate who is in complete agreement with them about every single issue. Personally, I like Howard Dean, but I also found it a little bit unfair that he was considered the "TRUE anti-war" candidate, when he was never in the position to have to cast the vote giving B*** the authority to authorize the war. Kerry and Edwards were definitely at a disadvantage in that regard. That is why so many believe we need a governor to run- a state record is a helluva lot different than a US House or Senate record.

My only real worry about Obama running is that racism has never been put to a serious test in a national presidential election before. I fear there are still a helluva lot of racists out there. We won't know if there are enough to sway a presidential election until it is actually put to the test.

[LynneSin]

43. I'm thinking he's a great choice for Vice President

It may sound a little ageist but I'm not quite ready to have him as president because he's pretty fresh to the national spotlight. But he would be an added bonus to have him as Vice President and he'll be in his prime when he runs for Prez in 2016

[LynneSin]

45. EVERYONE OBAMA IS NOT DLC - HE ASKED TO BE REMOVED!!!

Geez this was all over the boards when Obama's name first appeared on the DLC and then he asked that he be removed from the list.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-37,GGLG:en&q=Obama+DLC

There's a bunch of articles from DailyKos, Black Commentator, The Nation and a variety of other websites.

Yes, when he was first elected he showed up on the DLC list, but then he asked to be removed and that he was not a part of the DLC. Do you think someone who received contributions from Move-On PAC is going to associate with the DLC??

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/8/102/32777
We Stand with Obama: DLC Exodus
by Bob Brigham
Thu Apr 7th, 2005 at 22:02:08 PDT
(Awesome news, from the diaries -- kos)

Last month Kos had to step in to get the DLC to honor the wishes of Senator Barack Obama and remove him from their list:


Twice the DLC has tried to claim credit for Obama, slapping him up on their list of members, and for the second time, they've had to back down. <...>
They may love the guy, but Obama wants nothing to do with the DLC. Remember, Obama raised over $3 million from MoveOn members, the very organization the DLC wants purged from the party's ranks. We know where Obama's loyalties lie, and it's wiith the netroots. He's one of ours.

This little episode also highlights the DLC's interesting tactic of slapping up people on the list without asking for permission to do so, an attempt to take credit for peoples' success.

[geomon666]

51. All huff...

and no puff.

[Lecky]

52. I like what I see so far...

I'm not so sure about 08' (he's too new) but maybe 12' (depending who wins in 08') or 16'.

I think he has a bright future and I like the positive message he sends out. I'm proud to have him representing us Dems :)


Also, I think a black person has a very good chance at becoming president of the USA...I'm very optimistic about that and I don't like it when I see DU'ers cast doubt upon that.

(It also bugs me when they say the same about a woman (Hillary) or someone who is Jewish (Feingold)) Stop that defeatist mentality!!

[ripple]

57. I'm not a defeatest

But I try to be a realist. I just recognize that there is still an awful lot of racism in this country and it has never really been put to the test in a national presidential election. On the other hand, Obama at the helm (or as VP) would probably go a long way towards healing the racial divides that exist in this country. I was just "typing out loud", I guess. I see what you mean, though, and I meant no offense. Never say never!!!!!!!

Barack Obama has my full support and I will work like hell to help him get elected, should he choose to run. :patriot:

[madrchsod]

53. 12-20 years from now

probably with a woman vice president maybe Chelsea if she goes into politics

[JNelson6563]

54. Not too impressed thus far

but I have not abandoned hope. Yet.

I vote "no" for him as our nominee in 08.

Julie

[madrchsod]

55. oh yes-----if he`s not what he seems

we will take care of him in illinois. he`ll get voted out by both the democrats and republicans. here in illinois it doesn`t matter if they are republican or democrat, they won`t get voted out unless they really screw up. that`s just the way it is

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. He sold out before he even got his seat warm.

Just another politician looking to advance himself.

[Lecky]

60. How did he "sell out" exactly?

Are there any Democrats you like?

[HEyHEY]

58. I really don't know how to play

[jsamuel]

61. He is a good politician and a good person... but...

I would rather him be a great leader and not as good a politician... but that's just me.

[FogerRox]

62. I saw Obama on Charlie Rose

Obama seemed to be touting the globalist line-- thats a no go for me.