They are Already Calling this a Major Dem Loss

[Starpass]

For those who thought CA really didn't mean much in the overall politics of the nation, think again. It's just like I predicted---I could have written the script for the media whores.

Already this a.m. they are touting this as a DEM LOSS more than an "Arnold Victory". Stats are being posted in big letters/numbers on the tv screen: 25% of the Dems voted for Arnold and for the recall; half of Cruz' Latinos turned against him and voted for recall; 51% of union members voted for the recall and for Arnold (that one really sickens me--see it hasn't changed from what we saw nationwide in the '02 elections---maybe four more years of Bush can help the unions lose their right to organize and thus start earning the peon wages more like those across the border). Bottom line is that today's media thrust is that the Dems are losing their base; the Dems are "over"; the Dems will go down in defeat in '04 just like they did in '02. This is the carefully crafted launching pad to beat the Dems down from here to election '04 and the whores are lining up to aid and assist our el presidente.

And you know what is so ironic?? Arnold will do crap about the CA situation which has been brought about in the first place by Bush's economy and by the rape and pillage by those good repuke folks at Enron. Congrats CA as you awake with one good hangover because you have gone a long way to making sure you have Bush for four more years. Be assured that Bush will get a bounce from this and so much pounding we have done on the repukes will now start going out the window. Maybe the Dems need to regroup and get about 75% of the group out of this presidential race and start getting down to one, strong voice. Yesterday just dumped ice water on our party----and, yes, it's ramifications are really 'that' bad.

[DEMActivist]

1. That's because it IS

There's no other way to look at it. The biggest Democratic state went to a republican yesterday.

It IS a major Democratic loss.

So, are we just going to keep allowing "the Clinton machine" to hand our government over to the republicans?

At what point are we going to hold party officials responsible for this?

They haven't won an election since 1996. How much longer? At what point do the voters take back this party?

The party in Georgia is so ineffective, they can't even BEG a candidate to run for the Senate.

It's time to wake up people. It's time to hold some feet to the fire.

on edit:
It's time to fire some people. I say we start with Terry McAuliffe. And don't stop until every body at the DNC and DLC has been thrown out the front door.

[cspiguy]

10. They haven't won an election since 1996. Ahem - they won in 2000 but lost

in the courts.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Never ceases to amaze me how some of "us" forget that fact!

This also never fails to amaze me, "If Gore won, how come Bush* is in the WH?" :eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Could Give A Rat's Ass About The DLC

but why are they tarred with the California debacle...

[DEMActivist]

24. When are you going to wake up?

It was the DNC/DLC which ran this from the (D) side from the get go.

Did you forget that it was McAuliffe who said NO OTHER DEM WILL BE ON THE BALLOT IN CALIFORNIA?

Did you forget that it was "THE CLINTON MACHINE" who was in charge of the (D) Get out the vote that didn't happen?

Did you forget that it was the DNC/DLC who sent every (D) they could put their hands on to California in the last few weeks?

When are you going to wake up and realize what they are doing isn't working?

How many more elections do we have to lose?

How many more (D) defeats before you realize republican lite isn't going to win elections except for REPUBLICANS?

[KharmaTrain]

31. Bravo

It's hard reality, but 100% spot on.

It's time to really look at whose going to call the shots a year from now, not only so for the Executive, but the House and Senate races as well. If we're ever going to have any long-term effect and keep these bastards far away, we have to have get back the House.

McAullife is damaged goods...he was in 2002...but even worse now. I won't point fingers at the DLC, but this party needs a strong national party structure so ALL the voices are heard among ourselves, then in unison for everyone else.

I nominate Paul Begala.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Sorry DA but you got this one wrong. It was DNC saying no other

candidate which WOULD HAVE worked and would NOT have split our precious limited resources to compete with a guy who has probably a hundred million dollars worth of free air time including every major market radio station on the morning drive.

Cruz Bustamante (Lieberman's campaign manager in California) and one of the DLC's top 100 fastest rising ( and apparently fastest falling) stars played the politics of division..it had Dems running against themselves and his stupid ass "tough love" (what the fuck was that?) campaign went over like a lead balloon.

He divided the Dems in the past and just did it again. HE shot us all in the foot.

[bearfartinthewoods]

i have to agree in part

whoever held back any viable dem candidates should be ousted.
hung would be my first choice but......

[Catch22Dem]

2. Nah

I think the voters in California voted AGAINST the old guy and voted FOR the new guy. I honestly don't think "party" had much to do with it at all. Californians directed their anger over the state of the economy nationally, at their state leader. I think Dean was right. If a recall were held in every state today, there would be 50 governors out on their asses. Because they deserve it? No, but because people want something new. This could be bad for repukes.

[Starpass]

6. Catch 22 - unfortunately

what I'm talking about here is not the true analysis of what happened in CA. I'm talking about how the media is now using this at the springboard for the destruction of the Dems in '04 by telling us that we are losing our base and therefore are "over"---i.e., the union workers, the Hispanics (that were suppose to make such a difference, etc.). Do you recall "AL LIED??"---that was a 'lie' but they made it the mantra of '00. They have their groove now and you will hear every talking head pronouncing the Dems as "clowns who have nine clowns running against the given victory of the republicans". They want us to believe that everybody is jumping on the repuke bandwagon.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. why didn't the party offer an attractive 'new' dem guy?

offering only a dem that was connected to the admin was crazy. why was there no good dem alternative? because someone said the party had to stick with davis. someone misread the degree of discontent. somebody blew it.

[fizzana]

3. It's not nearly that bad

Rememver these are the media whores telling you what they think. This was nothing more than an issue about Gray Davis that got hijacked by a famous know-nothing celebrity.

Long before anyone was even talking about a recall Davis' approval ratings were in the 20's. This is in a state with a huge Democrat majority. Not many Democrats, myself included, were enamored with Davis.

This will also hopefully be a wake up call for the Democrats in California who thought all they had to do to win an election is show up.

Davis also ran the lamest campaign I've ever seen and never even fought on the issues where he could score points.

I personally know at least a half dozen Democrats who voted against Davis but who absolutely loathe Bush.

Believe me, what happened yesterday is nowhere as bad as what happened last November as far as the Democrats are concerned.

[DemNoir]

4. Its bigger than a loss for Dems

I think this was based entirely on celebrity and marketing, if Arnold ran as a Dem I think the outcome would be the same.

But, this cannot be laughed at or shrugged off, it indicates a serious problem. Think about it, if this can happen what isnt possible?

[cspiguy]

8. If you add Arnold's votes plus the wingnut, it was a Republican Landslide

Not good news. California, Texas, New York, Florida all have puke governors and some voters, albeit minorities, that theoretically believe one can vote Puke (R) and not be utterly immoral. Kind of like cheating on a spouse - if you've done it once, you have no line to cross if the temptation arises again. Davis was baaad karma. Those are now RED states with BLUE metropolitan areas. We have to move out of the cities and take back the middle class in the burbs to make them all blue again.

[RandomUser]

35. Agreed -- our blue states are not blue

They're red states with blue metropolitan areas, just like you said. Upstate New York is all republican, whereas NYC has democrats outnumbering republicans 5 to 1. There's a republican NY Governor, a republican NYC mayor. And the only reason Hillary won was because she went campaigning upstate and attacked the republican base. She had no chance of winning NYS if she just got the overwhelmingly dem NYC.

If we don't get the republicans, we lose. I don't care how you slice it. I don't care how many non-voting dems you bring in. California is a wake up call, because it's a bellweather for the nation. It's not the only red state with blue metropolitan centers. Davis tried to pump up the democratic base, but he didn't go after republican voters. Big mistake. Hillary went after the republicans upstate NY, because she knew she couldn't win with just the Dems in NYC, even when the Dems outnumber Republicans 5 to 1 in that most populous city.

Wake up call, people. These are not blue states. They're red states with blue metropolitan centers.

[foreigncorrespondent]

5. But why does everyone...

...have to continue to blame the WHOLE of CA for? Remember there were people who voted NO for the recall and YES for Bustamante, and some of those people happen to be our DU brothers and sisters.

Yes it is a big loss for the democrats, but they also need to treat this as a wake up call. The people have had enough of being taken for granted. It is up to the dems in office now to prove that they are the right ones to lead the country.

[edzontar]

12. Why are you so defensive?

The fact is that a significant majority of CAL voters voted for either Arnold or the other puke.

It is not YOUR fault, but it is a major disaster--and you can hardly blame people for thinking the folks that voted this way are nuts, ignorant, and/or stupid.

This is a bad time for your state--and nothing you can say will alter that fact.

I am truly sorry, however, for both CA and our once-great nation.

[foreigncorrespondent]

26. California isn't my state...

...and the United States isn't my country.

But as an outsider looking in. And as someone who does have a big steak in California (i.e. my partner lives in San Francisco) I can see that it is pointless to blame an entire state because of something the people who voted for the pencil dick did.

Not everyone in CA is guilty. No point turning your nose up at them all.

I am not being defensive, just seeing how silly it can be to blame an entire state when the end result was not 100% voting for shit for brains.

[VOX]

13. Well said. What happened in my state yesterday wasn't for lack...

of me trying to prevent it. I did what I could to fight the recall. My county didn't go for it, so that's something, at least.

I agree, this is indeed a wake-up call, and it needs to be answered.

[edzontar]

19. I agree--the future is still the future....

And there is still time to stem the Fascist tide--but time is running out. so we had better get to work.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. This state will go for Bush in 04 and we will have Arnold stumping for him

to thank for it.

Today is the last day I am posting on this site but to everyone who said we needed a name at the bottom of the ballot, all I can say is that it was the WORST possible decision, it split the message AND THE RESOURCES and behind the scenes Bustamante's supporters that DID go for him planned on voting for the recall in order to get him and his overinflated not ready for PRIME TIME EGO elected.

Bustamante pulled this shit right before the last election ( Nov 02)as well with a crucial farm vote and withdrew his support of Davis thereby dividing the party right before the election as well.

The CALIFORNIA Democratic party could have pulled this off. Interference from the NATIONAL DEMOCRATS is what did NOT work because Davis either had to defend his record from BOTH sides or play nice like everyone said.

Arnold on the other hand won with good old Republican politics by playing the RACE card.

The two issues that were IMPOSSIBLE to get past were : licenses for "illegal aliens", and Indian casino taxes. I know..I talked to those union workers. Hundreds if not thousands of them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Why-Quit Posting Here...

The more voices the better....

[charlie]

14. Criminy

Don't go! :-(

[edzontar]

15. Why are you quitting?

Is the new rules?

I must say that I find them to be very constrictive, confusing, and stifling.

I have noticed that the posts have become more defensive and divisive in the past month or so.

Especially annoying are the "I am offended by X" etc. posts.

But these are my own observations--what is bugging YOU?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. What is bugging me is that..as in life

The Republicans are getting it from one side and the Democrats are getting it from both. Reading this site yesterday was the LEAST comforting thing I could do.

The Republican party was all but DEAD in California after the mid-terms.

Had there been NO INTERFERENCE by a certain group in Washington that has gotten really GOOD at explaining LOSSES around the nation, I believe we could have pulled this off.

It's no use fighting it.

[edzontar]

27. Well I for one will miss you....and please, do not give up hope.

I have had to live through NIXXON, RAYGUN, and two BUSHBOYs, and I am very very disappointed and concerned about the future of the nation and the world...

But we cannot give up until the Fascist is defeated...in the government,, the media, and the corporate world,

I say fight, whatever it takes.

At least history will validate what we stood for.

[IrateCitizen]

30. BOY HOWDY! I think you just nailed it here, NSMA!

Had there been NO INTERFERENCE by a certain group in Washington that has gotten really GOOD at explaining LOSSES around the nation, I believe we could have pulled this off.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially the part about "getting really good at explaining losses." It is not a failure to "move to the center", nor is it a fundraising crisis, nor is it the media that has caused the crisis within the Democratic party. It is the insistence of those in the Washington cocoon that they know more about things "on the ground" than the people who are actually there.

[Frodo]

37. No use fighting it? "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor"

"Forget it, he's rolling." :-)

I agree we need to dump McAwfull. But, to be fair, no "poltical strategy" wins elections with a 20% approval rating. That's like Nixon getting booted and trying to run again a month later. California was a "no-win situation". We could have won with a different candidate (Feinstein?), or Davis could have stepped aside. I don't believe there was a way to win the straight-up "should Davis be removed" question. The lack of a viable Democratic candidate in the race actually improved the "recall" numbers.

Pardon me for saying so (and I know it isn't popular here), but we need to come up with reponses to losses that translate to "we DIDN'T lose - they CHEATED!".

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

41. Can I bore you with a story?

My uncle was in the Merchant Marines in World War II, working cargo ships back and forth across the South Pacific. He never saw a shot fired in anger until the time that a Japanese submarine sunk his ship.

He was horribly burned in the explosion and fire. He recalls that when he tried to lift his arm above the waves, the skin sagged down into the water. But he had his lift vest on, and he even managed to keep afloat an officer who had been knocked unconscious.

He was eventually rescued and a few days later, his commander told that he was being shipped back to the states to recuperate and, since the end of the war was in sight, he wouldn't be returning. My uncle then did something extraordinary.

He refused to go home. There was a job to be finished out here, he told his commander, and he didn't feel right going home until it was over. A few months later, my uncle returned to sea duty and didn't return home until after V-J Day.

We're in a fight, my friend. And it's not over.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. you can't quit..period....eom...nuff said...you can't quit

[Tinoire]

38. Well NSMA- This Californian is as pissed as you are!

I watched you shouted down on this board for saying the exact same things I had said about Bustamante (some at DU but most in private with other friends and California DUers), the DLC, the casinos, NIGGER, his known opportunism, his total lack-luster Centrism with Republicans helping his campaign, and the unforgivable manner in which he pissed off Labor by breaking ranks and putting himself on the ballot. Davis was thrown to the wolves as far back as 2000 when he was abandoned by the DLC which had accepted a little too much fucking Enron money to say a god-damned word!! Thank you New Dems. Consider Arnold one of yours because he IS the real thing- a REAL Centrist.

Give it up. The DLC is determined to keep gambling everything away until the day hell freezes over and Republicans, hahahaha, vote for some cheap imitation of their own product.

Keep waiting DLC. Those Repulbicans will buy your garbage the same day Progressives, Liberals, Greens, and Progressive Independents do.

Dems want to win? Give the people a REAL choice.

STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD and GET RUN OVER!

Ah.. how beautiful the site of Recall Si, Bustamante Si!

Thank you DLC. I will go fucking Green before I ever support a DLC candidate after this.

Hope the DLC pukes on this board who shut up people like NSMA who KNEW what they were talking about are DAMNED PROUD of themselves as they dishonestly spin this one because their pride is more important to them than the truth.

Yee HAW! Let's follow the DLC and its Storm Troopers to another White House victory defeat!

[virtue4u]

16. This will stop Hillary for 2004

In addition to Gray Davis, the other big loser in Arnold's win is Hillary and Bill. There is no way she will run in 2004 with a Republican in control of California. Personally, that's fine with me. The Clinton's have too much sway with this party.

[cspiguy]

18. Don't - Stop - Thinkin about Next Decade...

n/t

[HawkerHurricane]

29. Replutocan Hypocracy

Clinton: A womanizing admitted drug user that should be thrown out of office.

Arnie: A womanizing admitted drug user that should be elected to office.

[underpants]

21. Leno

Comedian Jay Leno (news - Y! TV) introduces new California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (news - web sites) to the crowd assembled at Schwarzenegger's election night headquarters as Schwarzenegger was declared the winner in the California gubernatorial recall election, Tuesday, Oct. 7, 2003, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)

[Zero Gravitas]

25. Leno is a Repig

No surprise there.

[edzontar]

28. Leno is a Repuke, so is Letterman...

I never ever watch either of them anymore.

[Kamika]

32. it is a big loss for us

THey got a republican governor in what is called a "democratic" state.

Well if democratic states now has republican governors were f*cked bigtime.


Abnd ill tell you another reason why this is a HUGE loss.

It proved to the republicans that they can win EASY. The SHEEP will vote for STARS, CELEBRITIES, they dont give rats *ss about politics.


The republicans now know that if you want a state, put a celebrity as nominee. And you can be damn sure hell win.

In time we will understand this too and it will be celebrity vs celebrity and i will just give up on politics totally

[bloom]

33. "celebrity vs celebrity"

Thats what I've been thinking. May the best actor win! :crazy:

[Snellius]

36. This should be put in perspective

McClintock, who was a much more appealing conservative than Simon, only got 13%. Both rightwing initiatives lost big. Arnold's win was based on an irreconciliable lie: you can't cut taxes and balance the budget or improve education. Period. The same discontent that Californians feel toward Davis and the state of the state's economy applied just as well to Bush. Davis was an unusually poor candidate and weak governor. Arnold's luster is flashy but loyalty is thin. As much as Californians love to elevate heroes, they also love to tear them down. Californians (I lived there over 40 years) are generally apolitical and detached. They would blame Davis if the sun didn't shine. Quality businesses will be too ashamed to move to Arnold Land. Many conservatives are more shocked by the Groper than Dems. All in all it will give Republicans a false sense of triumph.

[LynneSin]

39. Almost true: A Major Democracy Loss

Democracy lost yesterday because republicans will once again stoop to any level to win outside the normal proceess

[joefree1]

40. So let's get good and angry