I’ll be first with the Arnold/Clark spin

[zeemike]

Arnold should be a wake up for the Demos. This win for him means only one thing, that the Demos are sick of weak liberals and party loyalty and want a strong man to vote for.
And what an image Arnold has. He represents the terminator of the bad guy, the mussel man, the one to wreak vengeance on the enemies of freedom and cuddle the little children to his teddy bear chest. That is what people want.
So we need a strong man to run against bush. Oh jees, I just realized that we have one running. Lets all be afraid of making the Gray mistake like California did and rush to join the only hope of the Democratic party, the, highly decorated hero, General Clark

Edited to reflect that I am a Dean suporter

[mhr]

1. Kucinich Yes, Clark No!, Republican Light is a Passport to Failure!

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Could You Elaborate

and provide us with a scenario where Dennis Kucinich can amass the 270 Electoral College Votes to win the presidency?

[mhr]

26. If You Believe a Lie, It Becomes Reality

That is the premise of the Republicans and Karl Rove.

Their job is to brainwash people into beliveing a lie.

The lie that is being promoted on DU and elsewhere is that only one candidate has a chance.

Believing this lie makes it true.

You have the power to break the chain of lies.

[RandomUser]

67. What are you talking about?

The lie that is being promoted on DU and elsewhere is that only one candidate has a chance.

I don't believe Clark is the only candidate with a chance. Nor is that the way most Clark supporters think. But he's the candidate with the BEST chance.

There was a poll a few days ago asking Clark supporters what their dominant reason for supporting Clark was. And Electability and Miltary Resume were not the top answers. The top answer was that we agreed with him on the issues. So please stop spreading this falsehood that we're blinded by the four stars and stampeded by fear.

[Dookus]

5. well...

Kucinich, with his 1% polls, probably won't be the nominee.

And give us the evidence that Clark is "Republican light". He's probably the most liberal candidate running besides Kucinich. He's far to the left of Kerry, Dean, Lieberman, et. al.

[vi5]

7. So wait...the until recently pro-life Kucinich is NOT bushlite?

But Clark whose positions are almost universally in line with those of the democratic party IS?

I like Kucinich and think he's a good guy but your logic seems rather flawed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Dennis Kucinich Is Not Going To Be The Next President....

We Democrats need to stop constructing alternate realities....


It got the Jews destroyed at Masada.....


It got the Lakota Sioux destroyed at Wounded Knee....


Politics is a sport.... A blood sport..... And we don't even know how to compete.....

[Dhalgren]

32. Actually

it was the Roman Army that destroyed the Jews at Masada; and the US Cavalry who destroyed the Native Americans at Wounded Knee. Shifting the blame for disaster to the victims is not the best form of argument.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. The Argument Was That When You Ignore Reality

and construct an alternate reality bad things happen....


The Jews that committed mass suicide at Masada had the chance to submit to Roman rule and live to fight another day. They rejected it. It was a poor choice.....

On the other hands the Jews who were part of the resistance at the Warsaw Ghetto made the right choice. They were going to be exterminated anyway. It was better to die in a blaze of glory and provide succor to the survivors....


The Lakota Sioux at Wounded Knee, broken and full of despair at the destruction of their nation , started undulating madly in the form of the Ghost Dance hoping to bring back their ancestors to defeat their oppressors.... What a sad spectacle .... And then the Calvary foolishly and maliciously opens fire on them....

Shameful...

My point is if you don't like what happening.... Change it.... Don't sink into the hopelessness of alternate realities....

[Dhalgren]

40. I understand your point

I just think the examples are bad. The Jews at Masada had the choice of dying by their own hands or being crusified by the Romans - they made the right choice.

The Native Americans at Wounded Knee were slaughtered for no good reason - they had no choice.

In the realm of democratic politics the only "reality" is determined after the fact. Everything is "real" until the vote comes in. To say Truman couldn't beat Dewey was hard realism. After Truman won, it seemed less "real".

[maha]

39. Clark yes, Kucinich no! Stealth Greenie a passport to failure!

[Kahuna]

48. Amen! Amen!

:pals:

[davidinalameda]

76. republican lite?

how long did the wonder boy vote anti-choice with the Repukes?

[Spentastic]

2. Actually pretty funny

But unfortunately it may be that Arnold represents the final nail in the Democratic coffin.

If the Republicans can get Arnold elected they can get anyone elected.

[Kahuna]

52. So true. I hope that all DUers allow some reality to sink in..

because of this.

Reality: Dean is polling poorly in the south. That IS NOT likely to change. Why? Because he's Dean and doesn't have one second of national security experience. Even though he believes he does because, afterall, he's visited 50 countries. :eyes:

Reality: There is no reason to believe that Dean can win all of the states that Gore won.

Reality: Dean polls lower than ALL top tier candidates in a matchup against bush. Why? Because he's Dean.

Reality: Voters do not throw over a wartime president no matter how pathetic unpopular he is for one with zero foreign policy bona fides. It has never happened and no way will it happen in '04.

Reality: Although respondents to polls say that the economy is their number one concern, that doesn't mean that when they vote, national security won't be a primary concern. Proof? Wesley Clark with no domestic policy experience announces and immediately goes to the top of the polls.

Suggestions for dealing with these realities. Support one of the top tier candidates who poll well against bush as opposed to one who polls the worse against bush.

[VermontDem2004]

66. Polls Polls Polls

According to the polls the recall was going to be a bordeline no/yes vote. I seen an article saying it was tied at 48% Yes and No. Also many polls had Bustamante beating Arnold by a slim margin and also many polls had Arnold winning by a slim margin.

reality: Arnold overwhelimgly got more votes then Bustamante.

[Kahuna]

78. I think you are certainly citing pre Arnold debate polls. Because..

Arnold took off after the debate and all polls consistently showed that he would win and Davis was a goner. So, I really don't understand the point of your post. :shrug:

[VermontDem2004]

87. I am talking about just a few days ago

the debate was well into last week.

[Drifter]

3. It seems like ...

every loss for the Democrats is deemed a wake up call. The backlash of this injustice will sober up masses and put things back on track. I'm getting pretty fucking tired of wake up calls.

Instead of energizing the people against these thugs, it appears that their victory become more profound. I think Arnold has just delivered AWOL his second term.

Cheers
Drifter

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. We Need To Find Our Own Arnold.....

Our very own tabula rosa with mass appeal who can win us back the White House....

Once he wins we can use him as an instrument to put the country back on the right track...

[zeemike]

11. But which mass appeal do we want?

The one that appeals to violence or the one that appeals to justice and peace?
Dean and Kucinich appeals to one, and Clark the other.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Want To Appeal To Enough Americans To Amass 270 Electoral Votes

Everything else is commentary.....



I really don't think Wes Clark appeals to violence....

[Jim Sagle]

28. He doesn't appeal to Democrats either.

So don't try to shove him down our throats.

THAT'S the REAL lesson of Gray Davis and California.

[kiahzero]

74. We'll see about that

And no one's shoving him down your throat.

[Kahuna]

79. Really Jim?? Clark is leading in both national polls and

State polls. He's leading in NY, CA, WI, AL and OK. That's five. How many states is YOUR candidate ahead in? :eyes:

[Dookus]

25. c'mon...

find me ONE major policy issue on which Dean is to the left of Clark. Clark does NOT appeal to violence - in fact, he's the strongest, most legitimate voiced for internationalism in diplomacy in the race.

[dobak]

86. actually....

Clark wants America to focus more on diplomacy and international justice (International Court, etc...)

I think that will do more to prevent violence than starting a Department of Peace (which would never pass the House or Senate anyway).

[Spentastic]

14. There it is

Capitulation.

You can't fight on their ground. You'll lose.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Bustamante And Davis Were The Antithesis Of Arnold

and they were blown away....

[Spentastic]

22. You just don't get it

If the Dems had to run A Celeb in order to win, the game is so skewed as to be not worth playing. If the dems had run a celeb, they'd have still lost because the repubs know how to carry that off. Play their game, you'll lose.

Theoretically who would you vote for Stalin, Hitler or Mao?

[ronnykmarshall]

58. Feinstein would have won

Dianne would have walked away with this election. Period.

[Kahuna]

54. A 98 lb weakling and a short bald guy. Against a larger than

life movie star. Is America a shallow country? Hell yeah! Remember, voters voted for bush because they were convinced he was more "likeable" FCOL! Because he was the guy you'd want to have a beer with! That's the voter mentality we have to contend with... in real life.

[RandomUser]

60. Stupid, but true.

I asked one person why she wanted to vote for Bush over Gore, and she said because Bush seemed nice and like the type of person you would want in your livingroom.

[DemCam]

68. HaHaHaHa........

Except he wouldn't be caught dead there....and couldn't sit still long enough.

[RetroLounge]

81. That's the voter mentality we have to contend with

So Clark meets that criteria? The voters of that mentality will vote for Clark, because he wore a uniform?

Nice. Present the American Voters as idiots, then present your candidate as the one most electable. That means he's most electable by idiots. What does that say about Clark?

I think voters are smarter than ever. And smart voters will choose substance over purfumed princes.

by the way, I support Dean...

[ozone_man]

21. No, we don't need to find our own Arnold.

You are falling into a Republican/DLC trap. This is what they would have you believe.

Yes, we need a strong leader, but a principled, capable leader, with experience in how to balance budgets, establish health care, etc. Don't let "them" define the problem for you.

California, from my understanding, is still reeling from the mess that Pete Wilson left and the Enron fiasco. This coupled with high tech downturn and the bear market economy has done California in. Wait until real estate starts to drop.

Arnold will do even worse, since the economy will not recover for years to come. Jobs are being lost at a very fast rate. We need to create 150,000 jobs per month nationally to keep up with population. We are losing jobs every month, and are now 3M jobs lost, since Bush took office.

The silver lining is that AS will go down in flames as will Bush, just due to the economy, in the same way that Hoover did, when FDR took over. We will need FDR again, not Arnold Schwarzeneger or Bush.

[Kahuna]

53. We have our own Arnold. Only, our guy is a REAL action hero..

And...he blessed with movie star looks. See that guy in my signature? He's the one.

[mw]

8. Dems just don't get it: we're in a brawl not a game

There's a huge divide between the Dem establishment and Dem activists.

Activists have seen the light about Republicans: Republicans don't care about playing fair, don't care about being good Americans, don't care about doing the "right thing" at any given moment. They care about one thing: WINNING. And they'll shame their patriotic souls (thru impeachments, recalls, and stolen elections) to win.

The Dem establishment hasn't gotten that yet. They still think they're playing against honorable opponents.

As we know, they're not. Republicans are cut-throat bastards, and need to be treated as such. Dems must fight learn to fight power with power.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Where I Differ From Some DUers Is I

don't see the Puke crowd engaging in conspiracies as much as I see them gaming the system...


It is a subtle difference....


We need to game the system too....

[mw]

20. I can agree with that.

The problem is, establishment democrats aren't willing to duly "game". They're still relying on Republicans to be decent, patriotic, fair-minded players.

They're not.

And Dems keep standing at the plate to swing the bat, while the Rep catcher takes out a tire iron and beats the batter over the head.

[Tyler Durden]

13. You cannot wake the dead.

They took a cardboard cuttout of a body builder, stuck "R" in front of his party affiliation, and EVERY rePuke and Neo-Con in CA lined up and voted for him.

If we could get that kind of support in our party, there wouldn't even BE a Republican Party.

I may think differently in a couple of days, but with BBV and now Arnie, I'd say that unless the party picks a standard bearer FAST (unlikely) and bandwagons the living shit out of this election (even less likely) then Bush will win like Nixon beat McGovern.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. But We Will Be Pure....

NT

[JNelson6563]

10. How to win friends and influence people

Ok, this is one of the things I take issue with:

rush to join the only hope of the Democratic party, the, highly decorated hero, General Clark

Stating opinion as fact. I don't like it when anyone does it. It is a great way to start flame wars and pretty much piss off anyone who isn't a supporter of whoever has been deemed "our only hope".

There is no "only hope" for the Dems. I am a Dean supporter but do not believe he is the only one who is electable.

Besides, I'd be hesitant to declare the most unorganized campaign of the lot the safest bet--at this point anyway.

Opinions are like assholes friend, we've all got one. Thing about opinions and assholes, nobody likes 'em shoved in their faces.

Julie

[bicentennial_baby]

15. No, it's the other way around

The person who started this thread hates Clark, and is saying that Clark=Davis, and we should'nt let Clark get the nom, b/c we'll lose to * as bad as Davis lost to the groper.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Yeah....

At first I thought this was a pro-Clark thread...

[zeemike]

18. Remember Julie

That I am using sarcasms here to make a point in as few words as possible
I should state that I am a dean supporter.

[KittyWampus]

24. Somehow That Seems Contrary To The New GD Rules

but what the heck do I know.... :(

I'm referring to NOT using misleading thread titles.

[zeemike]

29. I am talking about the Arnold/Clark spin

Have I misled anyone? This is just a preemptive strike at what I think will be the spin to get us to support someone just because of fear created by the California results. How could this be illegal in a forum called Democratic Underground?

[ignatius]

38. You missed me, I also thought it was a pro-Clark thread.

Between the fucked up Ca. election and not enough coffee, I misread your intent.

[zeemike]

41. It is interesting

That you could read my description of Arnold as one that was supportive instead of sarcastic as I intended.
To me that shows that we have become so use to this (what would you call it Jingoism?) that it is hard to tell the difference when we read it.

[ignatius]

47. Actually, I am just really stupid. Show me a strong man

and I will vote for him. DUH

P.S. That was sarcasm.

[Kahuna]

55. It doesn't matter what z's intent was. He made a good ..

analogy. So the joke is on him.

[zeemike]

90. And in November 04

The joke will be on all of us here.

[JNelson6563]

27. all the worse

I think Dean supporters (and really all candidate supporters) would be wiser to post positive info on their own choice.

Think of this: If Dean wins the nom posts like yours only serve to irritate/offend Clark supporters who Dean will need.

Let's be constructive. We are suppose to all be on the same side.

My apologies for misunderstanding your intial post. No offense but I still don't like it. :-)

Julie

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I try to stay out of these internecine battles

but I am human and am given to lapses....


That being said, the constant back and forth flaming is not bringing us closer to our ultimate goal...

[zeemike]

33. You are right Julie

And I don’t like it either. I would rather see us win with peace and truth, but this is going to be a nasty struggle if you choose to get into it. And this is just a preemptive strike like I said. And I guess I am a warrior in this situation because I think we are about to be once again fooled into another 4 years of Bush.
Yes it just my opinion and my feeling. But I will not dwell on it; I just wanted to get it out in the open first.

[Rowdyboy]

30. Sure its contrary to the rules

But who cares if we can stick to the only Democrat with a realistic chance f beating Bush.

Lets go out in a blaze of glory! Let Bush be the first president to carry all 50 states and DC. Yeah, but we Democrats are PURE.

[ignatius]

34. I could not agree more. A General who just happens to

actually have brains and who an effective speaker.

I am sick and tired of losing to these vile people. They obviously no longer have the "morality" thing going for them between the steroid using,groping gangbanger A.S.,the pill-popping,bigot,Limpballs and the ever one to preach to everbody else Bill Bennett and his habitual gambling problems. The FELON in the WH administration who outed Valerie puts a huge dent in that honor and integrity in the WH claim.

30% of the public will vote Repug,no matter what. We have got to appeal to the fence sitters and Clark can do that. We are a nation collectively of frightened sheep, I think deep down people know that our lives have changed since 9-11, not because of the vulnerability of being physically hurt but I suspect a more deeply rooted feeling that something is wrong in America.

I love Dean, but in my humble opionion, Kerry and Clark is the ticket which provides our best chance of beating the BFEE.

[JNelson6563]

35. that is the way it should be done

I love Dean, but in my humble opionion, Kerry and Clark is the ticket which provides our best chance of beating the BFEE.

I disagree with your opinion but I appreciate you do not state it as fact. We need more willingness to label our opinions mere opinions.

Frankly I see several candidates who could beat Bush and plan to get behind whoever the nominee is. With everything I've got.

Julie

[Kahuna]

80. Julie. Please cite one poll that would lead you to believe.

Dean has the best chance of beating bush. Show one state poll other than NH and sometimes IA where Dean is leading the other Dems.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Bingo

40% of Pukes will vote for their guy..... 40% of Dems will vote for their guy.... The battle is for the 20% in the middle....


If last night wasn't a wake up call we all must be taking Rush's Oxycontin or however the Hell you spell it....

[reprobate]

46. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Disagree about Kerry, but that's beside the point.

I believe that you have put your finger on what the sheeple are really feeling. It's not that they think Captain Codpiece can protect them, or that they give him the moral high ground. Recent polls (as far as they can be trusted) have put the lie to that.

Most people, as the polls show, are afraid for the future of the country with the current leadership. The now give dems the lead in economic issues, security issues, etc, etc,. What they really want is strong leadership, as people everywhere want when the feel insecure. I believe that Clark could provide that leadership. I don't say that he's the most intelligent, or most knowledgeable candidate. Just that his bearing, his command of the language, even his voice which, thru learning to cammand others, has a penetrating and attention demanding ring, will draw the votes from the middle that are needed to win.

If I had my druthers, Kucinich would be my choice for his policies and views. But we are in a position that he simply cannot draw the votes needed because he just does not inspire the confidence in people that Clark can. I hate it that this is true, but reality is reality and if we don't acknowledge that we will lose.

I am just now recovering from the funk of seeing repugs win in CA last night. But coming to realize that ahnold cannot be a successful governor. His idea of running a state the size of california is to cut taxes and mug for the cameras. That's a policy that will guarantee that he will be a half term gov. And if we can let it be know that he will cost the state nine billion dollars, he won't last that long.

What is necessary now is for all of us to agree on a candidate thru the primary system, and then work our asses off to make sure that everyone each of us knows votes for him. That's how we'll beat the bastards.

One more thought that just occurred to me. We don't just need to take back the white house. Congress seems ripe for the picking at this point. I believe that Clark can provide the coattails needed to take it back. Something to think about.

[DemCam]

65. Hope is one of Clark's messages....

and it seems to be part of his character. It will resonate, I think, with voters because Bush's message is really not positive at all...

It is fear, fear, fear.

So the codpiece gives some small measure of temporary comfort...but it sure don't give hope in the long run.

[Pastiche423]

89. "an effective speaker"

Clark, a newcomer to presidential politics, touted his candidacy during paid appearances at DePauw University in Indiana and other campuses after he entered the presidential race on Sept. 17.

Under the laws governing the financing of presidential campaigns, candidates cannot be paid by corporations, labor unions, individuals or even universities for campaign-related events. The Federal Election Commission (FEC) considers such paid political appearances akin to a financial contribution to a candidate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58717-2003Oct7.html


Does effective exclude legal?

[Dhalgren]

36. This is the attitude and stance

that will allow one of the Democratic candidates the privilege of losing to Bush in '04. We have to step back and reassess our position. We need media, not a "savior" or "personality". We need to be able to put our message into the homes of every voter, every day, all day long. We have to lay it out for the public - all the lies, the thievery, the cronyism, the death... We have to do this starting now and never let up and we need media to do this. It does not matter who we nominate, without saturation of the media and constant demonization of Bush and his bunch, we will lose (and with BBV we might anyway).

[zeemike]

43. I agree

We ust make news not respond to it.

[Kahuna]

57. And while we're making this news, who's going to report it for us?

:eyes:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

49. Amen! Get to work!

We must get our message out. Every day. And the message has to resonate. Strangely enough, our message needs to be similar to Arnold's; that is, "Clean house, throw the bums out, they screwed it all up with their failed policies, let's clean house and return the Government to the people!" This message was a slam dunk for Arnold, look how many people came to his rallies and showed up to vote for him.

[DemCam]

62. We need both...

not so much "savior" or "personality" as really good candidate who can connect with people....

And therefore, connects with by and through the media.

Without either one...we are down that long sorry road again...

[catpower2000]

44. MMMMM...mussels...

I like them steamed with a little Old Bay and melted butter. :)

[CMT]

45. actually Davis was a "weak moderate"

not a fighting Liberal. He is the Lieberman of Governors.

[Kahuna]

50. The point being: We need to fight action hero with action hero??

Can't say I haven't thought of it myself. I see us marketing Clark as an older Clark Kent-type. If we pass around some pics of him as a young man when he had the dark hair, dark eyeglasses thing going...I think subliminally we could pass him off as....not only an action hero.... But as SUPERMAN!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

[RandomUser]

56. That's funny

Can you imagine a poster with two images side by side? The one you have here with the caption "mild-mannered arkansas rhodes scholar Wesley Clark" and another picture with distinguished older gray-haired Clark, with the caption "NATO Supreme Commander General Wes Clark for President." That would be hilarious, lol.

[DemCam]

59. LOL...thanks for this one,Kahuna...

I certainly hadn't seen that photo. Almost unrecognizable. Except for the smile.

and I love that Superman metaphor.

[Kahuna]

63. You know, I'm actually serious, don't you?

LOL! I kill me. :crazy:

P.S. I think he's better looking now. :smoke:

[DemCam]

70. I was counting on it.

And he did look like Clark Kent...hee hee. Even has part of the name. Where do we go with that?

(And he is better looking today.)

[RandomUser]

75. Now we only need a Kent

Isn't there some politician with the name Kent somewhere? I know this is just idle whimsy and silly, but imagine if he had a running mate named Kent. Clark/Kent for president! lol. The superman ticket B-)

[Kahuna]

83. I like it! Put it in the can!

:B

[HFishbine]

51. Arnold: "the mussel man?"

If that's what America wants, I suggest we draft General Clam.

[gully]

61. Clark? NOT! DEAN ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:spank: One inexperienced 'TV star' elected per decade please...

WTF does this say about the collective mentality of Americans BTW?

We need "Terminators" and "Generals" who have NO experience politically to be considered 'strong'.

Did you see the post from our Finnish friend about Americans and our collective lust for violence and Archie Bunker mentallity?

What is strength? Was Ghandi Strong, MLK ???

[Kahuna]

64. Really Gully. To compare GENERAL Clark with an actor..

is pretty inane. Get real.

This is not from a movie poster. And it's not a stunt double.

[gully]

69. It's the mentality I question...

The GI JOE mentality. Clark said some 'good' things, Arnie said some 'good' things, now lets run out and vote for em.

I mean no disrespect.

I've said all along if Clark gets the nom, I'll vote for him...But I won't be pleased about it.

[Kahuna]

72. But Gully, you cannot change the reality that American voters..

are shallow idiots. You have to play with the hand you are dealt. Even if we could change the minds and hearts of Americans, it takes years, not days. We don't have the time to try to get the average Joe to cooperate. We just don't. And the stakes are too high to let it go until we can convinde them that our way is better.

[kiahzero]

73. *Ahem*

First, did you watch the Iowa Town Hall with Clark? Harkin summed up SACEUR pretty well: "Anyone who can hold together a coalition of 19 and not lose a single American life is an experienced politician."

He also has made clear policy details available (especially his jobs plan), unlike Arnold. He has experience in the public sector, unlike Arnold.

Like Clark or not, there's no comparison.

[Clark Can WIN]

91. I was at that Iowa town hall

Everybody that wanted to meet him got an opportunity to do so at that event. Before we went live on C-span there was a nice little meet and greet away from the spotlight and photo op thing.

He is very warm, real, genuine, approachable, articulate, engaging, concise, congenial, enthusiastic, knowledgable, intense, humorous, lightning quick and sharp as a razor.

He listens to each person intently, and then stays with them until he is certain he's answered their quiestion. It was an amazing thing to be a part of.

That "it" factor............ he's got it.

[DemCam]

71. Love Ghandi and MLK

but they come along less frequently than actors...well, maybe.

But we also don't need martyrs to our cause at this point either.

We need someone who can articulate a message that American can respond to.

[bearfartinthewoods]

77. your post resounds with visual references and then you try and transfer

your point to Clark?

yeah right...

they didn't like arnie because of his strong bio but his image of strength and confidence and Clark hardly has that when compared to Dean or even Edwards.

[Kahuna]

84. Then why is Clark leading Dean and Edwards? You're killing me..

""they didn't like arnie because of his strong bio but his image of strength and confidence and Clark hardly has that when compared to Dean or even Edwards.""

wtf:

[bearfartinthewoods]

92. because we are more cerebral, in general

i'm not trying to sound arrogant but we are less likely to fall for the macho bs. the trouble iswe are not the oly ones voting in the general

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. You Can Not Like Clark But To Suggest That Edwards And Dean

have exhibited more stregth and courage than a man who has earned four Purple Hearts and a Silver Star bespeaks either an unbelievable maliciousness or ignorance....

[bearfartinthewoods]

93. that's not what i'm saying

i didn't mention couage, i'm talking image like first impression.
Clark has a kindly demeanor. he doesn't radiate strength.

[w4rma]

82. We do have a strong man running: Dean

Some folks are getting caught up in resumes (not to say that Dean doesn't have an impressive resume). McGovern was a war hero and lost all but one state. Arnold has never been anywhere near a real war.

It's the ATTITUDE. Its the feeling that this guy is tough and if something goes wrong he'll back you up. I don't know if Clark has that attitude, but Dean does have it and that, I think, is part of the reason that so many true conservatives, Libertarians and a wide base of Democrats of all flavors are backing Dean.

[LoneStarLiberal]

88. Clark Isn't Davis; There's Only One Davis Comparison

Please.

There's only one Davis comparison in the field of Democratic candidates: Lieberman. Even though I don't particularly care for Joe, that comparison is even being unfair to him.

Davis has almost no personality or rhetorical snap. Every Democratic candidate in the field has that, even the almost comatose-looking Lieberman.

It's not accurate to compare any of our candidates with Davis, not even Joe Lieberman.

On to the next charge...