I'm amazed at the shock re: Maria and Eunice's support of Ahnold

[IrateCitizen]

People here still seem to be in a state of genuine shock regarding the outright support of Ahnold's candidacy by members of the Kennedy clan. "But I thought they were Democrats!" they scream at the sky.

Let me put it this way. People like Maria and Eunice belong to the most exclusive country clubs. They attend and send their kids to the most elite private schools and ivy league caliber universities. They exist in high-society circles in which they are insulated from the difficulties of everyday life for the rest of us. They are never affected by cuts in social spending or job losses. They never have had to really want for ANYTHING in their lives.

Now, let me ask you, does this kind of life have much in common with the working and middle class voters that have traditionally been the backbone of the Democratic Party? Or is it a lifestyle that bears more in common with the country-club jet set Republicans that you are so surprised to see them support?

When it comes to a choice between loyalty to "principle" and loyalty to "their own kind", it's never a hard choice to people like Maria and Eunice....

[maha]

1. Jimmy Breslin says the same thing today.

http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-usbres083486185oct08,0,3191791.column?coll=ny-news-columnists

... inside at least some of the voting was done as the result of far greater transgressions.

They were committed by Maria Shriver and, at the end of the campaign, by her mother, Eunice Kennedy Shriver. The two were charged with attempted breaking and stealing the hearts of so many who for so many years have carried candles in their hearts of John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy - in the last years mostly Robert - and here you have two of the family selling out a piece of their souls.

The thought was inescapable. Just a few miles up the boulevard was the place where Robert Kennedy finished his 1968 presidential primary campaign. At last they left two pictures that do not fade: Mexicans piled up at the polls and in some places voting 95 percent for a Kennedy, whom they fiercely admired, and then Kennedy on the hotel kitchen floor with one eye closed from the bullet in his brain.

Now you have Maria Shriver and her mother on the stage for a candidate whose issue is: Stop Mexicans from driving.

[TravisBickle]

2. Who wants to stop Mexicans from driving?

I don't live in California, so I don't see all the newws there, but is it true that Arnold is against Mexicans driving?

Isn't that unconstitutional?

[Northwind]

3. He wants to prevent

Illegally entered immigrants from Mexico from getting a driver's license, not quite the same thing as "keeping mexicans from driving," but just as bad in its own way.

[Jim Sagle]

4. Excuse me, but preventing

Illegally entered immigrants from Mexico from getting a driver's license

is a GOOD thing. Anyone who doesn't understand that is part of why Democrats lose.

[IrateCitizen]

6. The reality is that w/o Mexican immigrants, CA's economy would collapse

These are the people who do all of the jobs that nobody else wants. They are the migrant farm workers, the busboys and dishwashers in the country clubs, the housekeepers in the hotels, and so on.

The goal of the CA GOP in this instance is much more insidious. It is basically to create a permanent underclass -- a group of people to do all this work (because who really believes that they will actively seek to stop undocumented immigrants) but without any hope of advancement. While the current realities are hard from fair, at least there is the hope of economic advancement within a couple of generations. The CA GOP would like nothing better than to cut off this hope of advancement.

This is a policy that caters to their core constituency -- rich old white guys in golf carts. It's the group that Pete Wilson seeked to cater to, through all of his anti-immigrant policies. Considering that Wilson is the man pulling the levers behind the Schwarzenegger curtain, look for more of the same.

[Jim Sagle]

10. Illegal immigrants need to be TOSSED OUT! END OF STORY!

Full stop.

Period.

End of chapter.

End of book.

End of trilogy.

Goddamnit.

[IrateCitizen]

13. Why Herr Haider, I didn't realize you were posting on DU!

:eyes:

And by what means are you willing to stop it? Armed guards at the border? Landmines in the "neutral zone"? Introduction of crocodiles into the Rio Grande?

Seriously, your emotional outburst on this issue belies any hint of rationality. If I didn't know better, I'd have thought you typed that with a vein pulsing in the middle of your forehead and your face turning various shades of crimson.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IrateCitizen]

16. Wow! What visceral antipathy from someone I've never met!

Democrats like you are why Democrats lose.

Hmmm. I never thought of it that way before. You know what, you're right! You've convinced me to change my ways. From now on, I'll engage in the politics of blame against a group of largely powerless people whose sole goal is to build a better life for their children than what has been available to them. :eyes:

See, Jim, that's a little emotion called empathy. It's about attempting to place yourself in another's perspective and trying to see things from their point of view, in hopes of recognizing their basic humanity as a common ground. It may not be popular in political circles or on these boards. But it's part of who I am. And, to be quite blunt, the world would be a helluva better place if more people were to realize their capacity for it.

Not that I'm expecting you to do so anytime soon.

[Jim Sagle]

20. You call yourself IrateCitizen but you don't understand

visceral antipathy. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Again, if you read what I actually posted, I'm not mad at the illegals, only their enablers.

And of course, by now I'm not mad at you either. How could anyone stay mad at such a charmer?

Except for the comparison to Whore Haider. That's not so charming.

[IrateCitizen]

21. Yeah, I know... the Haider comment was over the line. But I digress...

But if you want to look at the real enablers for undocumented immigration, look no further than big business. A pool of cheap labor definitely helps them out enormously. It not only provides them an immediate cheap labor pool, but it forces wages in general down because of a surplus of labor competing for ALL jobs. Additionally, it provides a displaced "source of blame" for those in the working and lower-middle class who suddenly see their wages go down. They can't blame the very business interests who are screwing them, because they're too busy blaming the immigrants themselves.

I'm not looking to "enable" undocumented immigrants. What I am completely for is to look at this situation in a rational manner, and to identify the root causes of this phenomenon. Our international trade practices (i.e. NAFTA) and financial practices (through the IMF) probably have a good deal to do with it. While the rights of capital are trumpeted in an effort to knock down international borders, the same rights of labor to move just as freely are stopped by the "have" nations.

Do you see where I'm going with all of this? The anger should be placed at the REAL enablers of the system. I would hardly call myself a REAL enabler, but rather someone interested in highlighting what goes on behind the scenes.

[MISSDem]

28. In my state the State Department of Public Works

(or whoever it is that builds roads and highways) hires illegal immigrants and the very large corporation where I work hires them also. What are you gonna do? They can't hire anyone else as cheap to do the jobs

[Jim Sagle]

36. I believe I understand the cause and effect fairly well.

And as a long range solution, unionism in this country needs to be regenerated - and unionism in Mexico needs to happen.

But if we could cut down the flow of illegals, wages WOULD rise. More Americans WOULD work those jobs, and unionism in America most likely WOULD be boosted. The vicious race to the bottom would slow down and perhaps reverse somewhat.

That's my take, anyway.

[maveric]

22. And will you or your kids work in the fields of the central valley

or north San Diego county?
I didnt think so. Get a grip pal. Without these hard working people the CA economy would be much worse that it is right now.
Do you think that americans would work under those conditions for shitty wages? Hah!!

[cap]

11. what about auto insurance????

you can't get auto insurance without a valid driver's license. Either let people who are going to drive anyhow get a license and insurance (make them show proof of insurance before getting the license) or accept higher insurance rates for valid CA drivers. Somebody pays for accidents caused by the uninsured and that is you.

[chaumont58]

19. I live in California, and I heard Tweety ranting about driver's licenses

Your post is the first clear reason I have heard about it. Your post makes sense. Tweety was too busy fellating Swartzengroper to find the real reason.

[lumpy]

32. No problem with illegal immigrants

working the fields and doing the dirty laundry,though ? Democrats don't always lose. True Democrats know this.

[chaumont58]

17. One thing about Breslin's story: Sepulveda AVE

I lived in the LA area for 30 plus years, and worked in the Valley for 20 plus years, I know where Sepulveda Blvd is but I don't know where Sepulveda AVE is. Sepulveda Blvd runs from the north end of the Valley all the to San Pedro, a distance too far to walk. I think Jimmy to proof read his work.

[jiacinto]

5. You are taking too far

They're family. Blood is thicker than anything else.

And I am sure that they felt conflicted. But Maria is their family and of course they would support her.

If it were your relative in her position I am sure that you would be supportive too.

[IrateCitizen]

7. If it were my relative advocating policies I didn't agree with...

... I would NOT publicly support their bid. I'd say something along the lines of, "I love my <insert relative here>, but I cannot support his/her bid for office because I feel his/her policies would be extremely destructive."

By your logic, James Carville should be supporting Mary Matalin's political workings because, well, they're FAMILY.

I don't think that Maria felt a single twinge of guilt through ANY of this. I really don't. And if you'd bother to address anything I said in my post, you'd see why I believe that to be true.

If it were your relative in her position I am sure that you would be supportive too.

You're sure? Obviously you don't know the first thing about me, Carlos.

[gully]

18. Maria thinks Arnold is a Democrat in denial.

Arnold is not typical in this Republican ideals.

I was shocked and a bit taken back, but I know the Kennedys stick together. They've suffered a great deal, they know what it is to lose a family member.

I don't hold it against them for putting family first. I did find it terribly ironic however. And, yes ... a bit sad.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. and it's their chance to have a president in the family

if ole' orin gets his way.....

[jiacinto]

27. She's Arnold's Husband

Of course she would support him. Again, while I don't think the Kennedys were ecstatic with her husband's run, family supports family. I am sure that many of them weren't happy with it.

I'm not defending them but frankly they were in a difficult position. And I don't evny them.

[IrateCitizen]

31. The sword that cuts both ways...

You're making this out as if it were strictly Arnold's decision to jump into the fray. I would very much disagree.

I know that if I just went and did something that threw my entire family into the scrutiny of the public eye, WITHOUT discussing it in depth and at great length with my wife, she would have my balls swinging from a plastic bag tossed up into a tree.

I am certain that Arnold and Maria discussed his bid at great length. If they truly did have such radically different political views, I am certain that she would have told him that she was uncomfortable with the whole idea. The way that she so enthusiastically supported him -- not just as her husband, but as the CANDIDATE -- says volumes about where her principles and loyalties lie. And THAT is the part about all of this that you are missing.

She's hardly going to be called a "traitor to her class" for her actions.

[jiacinto]

33. Well of course she would support her husband

I don't see what is so surprising about that.

[shimmergal]

8. Partly true, perhaps, but don't forget about the "sanctity of marriage"

factor.

Marriages like Carville and Matalin are rare. Even Ariana Huffington supported her airhead husband when he was running, although she apparently learned better (about him and politics) during the process.

As for Eunice--as the mother of daughters, I don't know what I'd do. There's also the obligation to give moral support to your offspring, even if you don't agree with what they're doing. Whether this extends to sons-in-laws is another question. But the Kennedy family when Eunice was growing up in it _was_ highly patriarchal, so she's probably coming from a different "place" about this than me.

None of the other Kennedys supported the Terminator.

[nini]

9. I wonder what Teddy thinks of this?

.

[booksenkatz]

12. It's not shock in the traditional sense

I just couldn't stand seeing it out there, rubbed in our faces, complete with confetti and a party and kisses and smiles. I can't think of a single important family name in the Republican party that would ever, ever, ever be seen on a stage with a Democrat like that. Marriage or no marriage.

(Plus, I am extremely volatile this morning and am looking for something tangible upon which to vent my wrath! Turncoats will do quite nicely!)

[UTUSN]

14. The JOLT Was to See Sargeant SHRIVER

Yeah, he's Daddy, but (for the kids around here) he was McGOVERN's running mate. Him and the whole slew of SHRIVERs and KENNEDYs. Yeah, they're family. But it was mind-altering.

[mlawson]

34. Just another traitor!!

That whole scene made me want to puke. What would Bobby say, I wonder??? Fuck them all!

[PaDUer]

38. I also was shocked,,

and to see the Kennedy clan, except Ted and Caroline, put me into space! What's with these people? Have they no shame..are they that shit scared of the so-called terminator? What's this world coming to? Something is terribly wrong w/ this picture.

[Snellius]

24. Maybe Maria is using Arnold

Everyone thinks Arnold is using the Kennedys as a stepping stone to power, but I wonder how much Maria is using Arnold. To understand this situation it might be necessary not to think too rigidly in terms of Rs vs. Ds. I can imagine the right being as suspicious of a Kennedy infiltrating their camp. Is Arnold coopted a Democrat or is a Democrat coopted him?

[kskiska]

26. Maria is very submissive in Arnold's presence

I read where he won't even "allow" her to wear pants. I very much doubt she's pulling the strings.

[Snellius]

30. That was before the Groper got outed

Supposedly she hit the ceiling. But the next day she was giving her famous speech before a Republican women's group reciting her ten reasons why I love Arnold. It pulled his chestnuts out of the fire and now she's got him by the bälle.

People are saying they really voted for her.

[PaDUer]

37. NO pants?

for a quickie? She needs her head examined!

[TexasLib]

25. family ties

are thickest sometimes.

[MISSDem]

29. Maybe the plan is for Arnold to

change over to be a Democrat now that he is elected. Wouldn't be the first time it happened.

[mlawson]

35. For us Boomers, it might be like the final end of Camelot.

NO WAY in HELL would Bobby have been on that stage last night, smiling at a cretin like Ah-nold!! Back then, politics was played by those made of sterner stuff.

I can maybe forgive Eunice; she is elderly, and a mother. But the others, not a chance!!! Leno's behavior was no surprise -- he is a repuke. I heard that Rob Lowe was on stage, as well. UP HIS!!!!