Is the Clark campaign self-destructing? Check this letter

[RamboLiberal]

First off I'm not a Clark basher. His candidacy intrigues me. I've been in the camp of both Dean and Clark. So what do you at DU make of this?

By the time you read these words, the bell will be tolling for Wesley Clark's candidacy. It will be clear across the country that the campaign of Wesley Clark is nothing more than the Gore campaign with a better candidate - this will mean that activists, the people who can create a field organization that can win Iowa and New Hampshire, will know that this campaign is nothing more than a media creation.

This is the defining moment for the Clark Campaign. Either he will show he can take charge, or he will be forever branded a tool of insiders, unable to understand the enormity of the task. A man who cannot fill a campaign, cannot fill a cabinet. A man who cannot run a campaign, cannot run the government. A man who cannot obey the law, cannot uphold the law.

Donnie Fowler - respected campaigner, son of legendary Don Fowler - has been forced out. He was forced out because people would not come forward and tell the truth, and instead cowered and waited, even though they knew what was going on to be wrong. We were not there for him, and he is now no longer there for us.

It is crisis that makes men into statesmen, and separates leaders from followers. What must be done now is swift and dramatic action: it must be made clear that Clark is not a follower of the old politics and can step forward and staunch the bleeding. This is because the resignation makes all of the small irregularities and missteps of the campaign count as problems, and they will be brought forward. People here who think that this is the end of Clark's problems are deceving themselves. Now that the recall is over, and the spy flame has died down - a new news cycle has started, and Clark is on the menu. If he does not meet this head on, he will be swamped by every single error made. The man who runs as Mr. Clean, must, in fact be clean. Clark must prove he can run his campaign, the way he runs his mouth.

http://www.draftclark.com/archives/004484.shtml

[Caution]

1. considering that Gore WON

this isn't exactly awful news to compare clark's campaign to gore's and changes in the early going are not unexpected. (i'm on the fence still abotu who to support btw).

[Julien Sorel]

2. This sounds like extortion:

Third - He must bring in the intellectual elements of the Clark movement which, so far, have been left out - and even attacked and censored - on board. There is no longer the excuse of being "too busy". It is these individuals who can sink the campaign beyond repair if they are not brought on board. It is only these individuals who can provide the credibility for a turnaround of the campaign. It is these individuals who can say in an unforced manner "there were problems, they are being fixed now". He must implement open source politics, and "get religion". Without this, there will be a feeding frenzy of attacks. As it is irrevocable damage has been done: Clark could have vaulted to 40% and walked to the nomination. Now it will be a nasty hard ground war, with much heartache and blood.


Dean runs his campaign the way he does because he has no choice. These guys need to take a look at the practical considerations involved, and realize that Clark is not Dean. It isn't that Dean wants no part of 'the establishment;' it's that they want no part of him. So, like a good marketer, he's put the best face on that and turned it into a strength. Clark has other options, and is taking advantage of them.

[diplomats]

3. Josh Marshall addresses this:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com

[bluefire2000]

6. Stirling Newberry is the author

And worked for the draft clark movement, and apparently is taking the view that Donnie Fowler's departure will doom the campaign. He seems to think that the campaign will be won by blogs and blogging as part of some new radical shift in politics, and is pissed off that the this aspect has been overshadowed by more traditional campaign methods.

[JNelson6563]

7. Interesting

Dean runs his campaign the way he does because he has no choice.

He certainly had the choice of sticking to conventional campaign strategies and saw the advantages of choosing the unconventional.

These guys need to take a look at the practical considerations involved, and realize that Clark is not Dean.

This is true but the DraftClark folks used the same methods as the Dean campaign to achieve their goals and look how successful they were. I can't blame them for wishing the Clark campaign would continue down the road they cut for him.

It isn't that Dean wants no part of 'the establishment;' it's that they want no part of him.

I wonder why that is? I see it as a positive. After seeing this past 2.5 years of how the "establishment" pretty much just rolled over for Jr. it's time for a change IMO.

So, like a good marketer, he's put the best face on that and turned it into a strength.

Frankly I think Dean was being a realist. Look at the right-wing slant in the corporate owned media. Do you think if he just depended on them he'd get his message out and grow his ranks? Look at the campaigns of those who have and reassess the wisdom of unconventional campaign strategies.

Clark has other options, and is taking advantage of them.

What? TV? Radio? Papers? Sure they were all real nice and stuff during the honeymoon period but that appears to be over. I wonder which venue he will utilize? I hope he does choose to make good use of the internet. It is what is left to us Dems and it is proving to be one of the most effective of all.

Julie

[Julien Sorel]

18. He chose the unconventional because he lacked the funding

and networking that allows for conventionality. This is not a slam on Dean -- I give him credit for taking advantage of the options available to him, even if they were pioneered by McCain.

Clark has the alternative to run using existing networks from the Party machinery. It's more efficient, and it's ready-made. It isn't, by the way, a question of either/or, at least it shouldn't be. The one should compliment the other.

Frankly I think Dean was being a realist. Look at the right-wing slant in the corporate owned media. Do you think if he just depended on them he'd get his message out and grow his ranks? Look at the campaigns of those who have and reassess the wisdom of unconventional campaign strategies.

So do I -- about Dean's realism. However, the rant about 'corporate media' is completely irrelevant here. The problem with buying into a campaign that is built on propaganda is that the propaganda inevitably begins shaping the way you think, and that is a bad thing. Save the stuff about 'corporate run media' for your Dean meetups, where other people also think and talk like that. To most people, it makes no sense, particularly when it is shoe-horned into a discussion in which it doesn't belong.

[JNelson6563]

34. oh, ok

What I was doing was providing the reasoning behind my assertion.

Let me break it down:

Frankly I think Dean was being a realist.

That was where I asserted my view.

Look at the right-wing slant in the corporate owned media. Do you think if he just depended on them he'd get his message out and grow his ranks? Look at the campaigns of those who have and reassess the wisdom of unconventional campaign strategies.

Ok, help me to understand how this "rant" (you call that a rant??? haha) is irrelevant. Do you deny that the media is corporate owned? Do you disagree that there tends to be a right-wing slant? I guess that whole getting Gored thing was fiction! And has it appear to you that the (corporate) media has been Bush's biggest supporter?

This is my favorite:

The problem with buying into a campaign that is built on propaganda is that the propaganda inevitably begins shaping the way you think, and that is a bad thing. Save the stuff about 'corporate run media' for your Dean meetups, where other people also think and talk like that.

LOL!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! I knew all about the corporate media and the right wing slant long before I even heard the name Dean. Seems you disagree with this commonly referred to premise (DU being where I see most mention of it!) Please! You are not trying to say this view is exclusive to Dean supporters, are you???

Tell me, what do you plan to do if Dean wins the nomination? Your loathing is apparent. Is it enough to make you throw your vote away to the benefit of Jr.?

Julie

[Julien Sorel]

41. I think you misss the point. As in, entirely.

Ok, help me to understand how this "rant" (you call that a rant??? haha) is irrelevant. Do you deny that the media is corporate owned? Do you disagree that there tends to be a right-wing slant? I guess that whole getting Gored thing was fiction! And has it appear to you that the (corporate) media has been Bush's biggest supporter?

The only person conerned about the 'corporatist media' is you. I didn't mention it in my original post, and nor was I thinking about it; yet you drug it in. Perhaps it's evidence of an obsession of yours, who knows.

LOL!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! I knew all about the corporate media and the right wing slant long before I even heard the name Dean. Seems you disagree with this commonly referred to premise (DU being where I see most mention of it!) Please! You are not trying to say this view is exclusive to Dean supporters, are you???

Dean supporters are the ones who talk about how their pro-corporate candidate is somehow the 'anti-corporatist' choice. The only people who obsess about 'corporatism' are Deanies and Greenies. Witness you dragging the topic into this discussion when it had no business being there. :shrug:

[JNelson6563]

46. the rules of engagement

are apparently something you aren't too familiar with.

I made an assertion. I provided my reasoning behind the assertion. You asset I am merely falling prey to "propaganda" (ergo I must be a simpleton), only Deanies claim the media is corporate/right-wing and that this discussion is beyond me.

So, if one makes an assertion and provides their reasoning are they only allowed to mention things already discussed?

Your "logic" escapes me but your hateful mindset is evident. You have my sympathy. Such negative emotion makes for a very dark world.

I urge you to look into a couple of things. One being the term "objectivity" and the other would be to learn a little bit about rational debate.

BTW, still waiting for your answer re: if Dean wins the nom what will you do?

Julie

[TLM]

16. Why you must be dizzy....

That's a lot of spinning on the fact Clark is just another insider tool and Dean is running a massive record-breaking grass roots populist campaign.


What you call extortion... I call the inevitable result of the Clark boosters being lied to. These kids are now being told their services are no longer needed because the insiders and the special interests will take it from here.

Clark used these people to put out this bogus image of him as some super liberal progressive hope... and they did their job well, fooling a lot of people. But now there's all these idealistic people who thought that Clark was the real deal, finding out they've been had and Clark is just another corporate lackey front man for war profiteers… just like Bush.

I expect we'll see the bottom fall right out from under the Clark campaign.

[Julien Sorel]

19. We agree on something.

I expect we'll see the bottom fall right out from under the Clark campaign.

So do I. Some time in December of 2004.

[clar]

29. More like December '03

if Clark doesn't get some control over this campaign. One or two stories of this sort aren't a problem, but story after story of campaign gaffes and infighting can take a toll. Just today there's not only this story, but the one about Clark making paid speeches while a candidate, and possibly violating Federal Election laws. I like Clark and I want to see his campaign flourish, but he needs to tidy up his campaign and fast.

[bicentennial_baby]

4. Stirling's angry

because he's not being included on the campaign, and he's posting doom & gloom all over the place today about Clark.

time will tell...

:boring:

[Capn Sunshine]

10. Stirlings point...

Is that it was the internet organization and the bloggers of the DRAFT CLARK movement that persuaded the candidate to get in in the first place.

He feels Clarks switch to empahsis on traditional measures from internet advocacy and fund raising is a big mistake, and cedes that territory to the masters of it at the Dean campaign.

Yes, time will tell. He's probably right.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. No

John Hlinko, from the Draft Clark movement is now in charge of the Internet stuff for Clark, afaik. There are also at least 2 other Draft people working on the campaign. Stirling is not one of them, and he's not happy about it.

[Renew Deal]

24. Stirling said he wouldn't take a job...

even if offered. I am not sure where his problem is coming. He had stated that he wouldn't take a job. He has been a great help to the draft movement and has worked on lots of projects. Unfortunately, you have to play with the big boys when you run for president. Clark is getting some big boys to play with. The mistakes made so far could have been avoided. Why wasn't Fowler on top of this? I heard about the speech thing 2 weeks ago. Why wasn't it resolved then? Candidacy papers weren’t filed until the last day (if at all). This is his first try as boss. It didn't work out.

One thing that I see about the draft movement. I am with the movement in NY. We are organized, we are working and we are getting some direction from Little Rock. Clark is using the draft people. he insists that the draft people are "his people." Parts of the draft run the web operation, and many other localized events.

Clark’s campaign is growing under the microscope. I still feel like these are growing pains. Let's see.

[KittyWampus]

25. Why Did Fowler Allow Clark's Registration Wait?

That was pretty f*cked up... why did it take so long for Clark's Presidential Registration Papers get filed?

Why was he allowed to speak at the Universities?

[Renew Deal]

27. That's what I am saying.

This started with some careless and avoidable mistakes. I think this is for the better.

[Clark Can WIN]

38. Hey Capn ...........

You guys are welcome to take him...............:evilgrin:


We'll send his pj's over.

[lindashaw]

5. I went to the site, but I really don't know what's happening...

[eileen_d]

8. It's kind of hard to tell from the draftclark.com post

I read the whole thing twice and it came off as a rant from a disgruntled employee without much context. Perhaps his ranting is justified, but he doesn't make the case for it very well IMO.

For example: Fowler "was forced out because people would not come forward and tell the truth" - the truth being what? It's all a bit too sketchy.

Campaign infighting - hope it passes soon.

[lindashaw]

12. Josh called Fowler a "kinda, sorta campaign manager." Is

there a bona fide campaign manager? Found this at the home page:

General Clark Grants Face-to-Face Interview With Blogger

October 1, 2003 - Tuesday General Wesley K. Clark (Ret.), Democratic candidate for President, participated in a face-to-face interview with Joshua Marshall, the blogger behind Talking Points Memo. Having entered the presidential race only two weeks ago, Clark is maximizing technology and the use of the Internet to communicate his ideas to the American people.

http://www.clark04.com/

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Eli Segal, new guy

From Clark04.com:

"You've probably heard that Donnie Fowler, who helped us launch this ambitious campaign, has decided to move on. We appreciate how much he did to meld your grassroots movement with the mechanics of building a winning presidential bid. He is among the few who truly grasp how the Internet has changed campaigning. We thank him for his work and applaud his vision, and look forward to working together in the future.

We are now moving into the next phase of our campaign under the leadership of Eli Segal, who served as founding CEO of AmeriCorps, the national service initiative launched in 1993, and has a distinguished record of campaign successes."

[lindashaw]

15. Ah. Thx.

[grasswire]

9. Stirling....

.....doesn't he have a reputation for being in the middle of trouble on various message boards in recent years? I seem to remember him leaving in a huff from some other places.

[neverforget]

11. The departure of one person will not sink Clark's candidacy. IF that

were the case, then his candidacy was never very strong. This person can be replaced and will by another campaign manager. The campaign is about Clark, not about Fowler.

[Ronnie]

17. I smell...

ego. Kind of like the rooster that thought his crowing made the sun rise.

[Renew Deal]

26. What's funny is he didn't post it under his name.

He usually takes credit. Very strange

[KittyWampus]

20. Sounds Like Some People Want To Dictate

What Clark's campaign should be and are piqued they're not getting their way.

Apparently, some of the DraftClark people wanted a carbon copy of what Dean is doing. Or they feel they "own" the Campaign.

While I applaud Dean's grassroots movement the fact is.... you CANNOT discount the Democratic Leadership and the Establishment.

That Establishment is NOT going away. He will have a tough time trying to govern without its support.

Grassroots supporters can only take Dean so far. And they fail to realise that Dean is NOT A PROGRESSIVE nor is he a "STRAIGHTSHOOTER". He modifies his stances and ultimately remains a Business Friendly Centrist who also happens to be very good at whipping up an disgruntled crowd and getting money from them.

Now if Clark's campaign isn't smart enough to utilize the DraftClark people whatsoever and if its not savvy enough to come up a decent website with people on the other end of email... then it very well may fail.

PostScript: I have founded and run a local organization for female artists.... sometimes when people don't get their way they tend to spout off in public... it says more about the person writing the letter and their own personal agenda than it does about the Organization.

[kang]

21. TNR's take on Fowler quitting

I'm not sure about the IP ramifications of this, but here's an excerpt from TNR's web-site...or you can check it out yourself.

"When you're campaign manager bails on you, there's no good way to spin it. The Washington media will read it as an omen of doom. But Donnie Fowler's decision to quit the Clark campaign might not be the disaster that newspapers have portrayed. For starters, there's Fowler himself. From what I understand, he was always a stopgap boss--an experienced campaign technocrat, but not an electoral genius. And he's hardly run a perfect ship. He didn't get Clark's party registration papers down to the country registrar. His press operation has been anarchic. According to reports from Little Rock, he was an excessively bossy character, especially with regards to his elders.

Fowler, alas, hasn't quit quietly. He has turned his departure into a commentary on the Clark campaign. Apparently, he regards the operation as too Washington-centric and unwilling to tap the Draft Clark grassroots movement. This argument is ridiculous. Clark has only a few months to whip out a winning campaign. He can't afford to run his operation as an exercise in radical decentralization and deliberative democracy. Nor he can he afford to fumble by handing important tasks to inexperienced underlings.

One last point. Yes, there are lots of Gore people around Clark. But why is that such a bad thing? They haven't been trying to force the template of the Gore campaign on the man. And they haven't sent their candidate to dwell on K Street begging for donations. In fact, I think they've done a pretty good job, as magazine covers, endorsements, and $3.5 million in donations show."

[KittyWampus]

22. Hmmmmmmmmm, THE TIME ELEMENT

it's true Clinton also entered the primary late, but he'd had more time to prepare and was already a Politician with politico ties.

[robbedvoter]

23. Stirling reminds me of Bob Kunst. Started as a bona-fide

activist - powered by the stolen election. Discovered he can make headlines by holding "GORE BETRAYED US" signs at Gore rallies. Ran for Fla governor. Now selling HILLARY/CLARK buttons.
Ego ran amok.
For those having a cow at this pathetic display: the draft people are fine. The actual leaders (Hlinko, Margulis et al) are in Little Rock working with the campaign.
Stirling wants attention. He gave disparaging interviews the day after the announcement to the American prospect (picked by Wired too). It was discussed here at the time.
My prediction: in a month, Stirling will announce his own candidacy. It will be a good day in Clarksville!

[Clark Can WIN]

36. LOL

Stirling for emporor!

:toast:

[farmbo]

28. Somebody needs a nap!!

This DraftClark guy does NOT sound like the kind of person you'd want within 10 miles of campaign headquarters. Good riddance.

The first part of the job description for a campaign worker:

"...must be willing to fall on your sword, cheerfully, and leave the campaign to 'spend more time with your family', when asked to do so by the candidate..."

[kodi]

30. i'm shocked, simply shocked that politics is going on.

BTW: gore is still a better candidate than clark, and if dean is not the democratic nominee, gore will be.

[HitmanLV]

31. Clark's campaign problems are...

...just growing pains. He is likely to be an attratice candidate when the machine is fine tuned.

[stickdog]

32. Pulling up the grass by the roots, eh, Clarkies? (NT)

[hedda_foil]

33. More on Eli Segal

Eli Segal served as assistant to the president in the Clinton-Gore Administration from 1993 until 1996. He was confirmed by the Senate as the first CEO of the Corporation for National Service, where he was responsible for the legislation that created AmeriCorps. In January 1997, Segal launched The Welfare-to-Work Partnership, a nonpartisan organization of the American business community committed to hiring and retaining former welfare recipients. In recognition of his work for AmeriCorps and the Welfare-to-Work Partnership, President Clinton presented Segal with the Presidential Medal.

Segal currently serves on the board of directors of Fannie Mae and sits on the board of advisors of Stonebridge International LLC, and several other companies and nonprofit organizations. He is the co-author of Common Interest, Common Good: Creating Value through Business and Social Sector Partnerships.

http://www.ideastations.org/ftr/guests/segal.html

Stonebridge International LLC

In today’s increasingly competitive global marketplace, skillfully navigating the commercial and political crosscurrents can make the difference. We work with our clients to develop and implement practical, results-oriented solutions to improve the bottom line.

Stonebridge International LLC is a global business strategy firm that helps U.S. and multinational companies shape and execute strategies to solve problems and seize business opportunities worldwide. Stonebridge Chairman Samuel R. Berger, former U.S. National Security Advisor, founded the firm on the principle that our success should be measured not just by the quality of our advice but also by our ability to help achieve concrete and timely results.

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http://www.stonebridge-international.com/profile.html

[Pastiche423]

37. He sounds rather DLCish

Am I wrong?

[Julien Sorel]

39. Oh God! It's a lobbying firm! The conspiracy is revealed at last.

[Clark Can WIN]

35. So some Prima Donna

wasn't getting stroked off fast enough.

Big deal. You think Joe Six Pack cares about this shit? Please. Joe wants to know where the hell his 401k went and when he can get his damn job back. He could give a vuck who Clarks campaign manager is.

The more people who have said the campaign is doomed the higher the numbers get.

So BRING IT ON!

[eleny]

40. Gossipy stuff like this doesn't phase me n/t

[Kip Rainville]

42. Jumped to quick

We did not look at him in depth before we got behind him. Isn't that obvious. KR

[newyawker99]

43. Hi Kip Rainville!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I Have A Serious Question

What did Don Fowler do to be legendary?


He was a run of the mill party chairman in the 80's


Were the 80's the high water mark of the Democratic party?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. You Are Right About One Thing....

The press wants to destroy Clark so they can serve * cannon fodder in 04 and hand the Dems another humiliating California style defeat....