The American people are uninformed, not stupid

[Classical_Liberal]

The sex scandals against Bill Clinton, didn't work, so why is anyone surprised they backfired in the campaign against Arnold? It was the assumption that they were stupid that caused Davis supporters to mount that insulting moronic campaign, where personal scandals became more important that real ones. Arnold's link to Enron should have been persued, not the moronic sex scandals, and the moronic accusations of Nazism. It was bad enough that the media wouldn't cover anything serious, but the ad campaigns against Arnold all focused on personal scandals too. Not to mention the spin was 100% all scandals all the time.

[vi5]

1. Yes, but with the easy access to information....

Either through newspapers, computers, or the many different news channels or even basic network news, there is some culpability on the part of the voters to actually inform themselves. Especially given the more accurate stories presented by most print media, there is no excuse to be ignorant or ill informed when for less than a dollar you can get yourself 2 newspapers.

I'm not saying I completely disagree with your premise. But as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[Classical_Liberal]

3. Blaming the voters will never win an election

.

[HERVEPA]

2. Uninformed and uninquisitive and...

apparently incapable of basic analytical thinking.
And why is the sex thing moronic? Groping women is a minor matter?
I'm sorry, the info was out there for you and me, and it was out there for anyone else who could or wanted to think.
Blame the voters, and those too lazy or uncaring to.
The "sex" scandal didn't backfire, it just didn't work.

You could also blame Dianne Feinstein for not running, also. Apparently her career in the Senate was more important than California.

[Classical_Liberal]

4. It was moronic, because it was last minute and could not

be proved or disproved. I don't assume he groped the women, anymore than I assumed Clinton did. The timing looked partisan. I guess if Clinton had run a 3rd term I would have been dissing rape victims by voting for him.

[HERVEPA]

7. Consensual vs. non-consensual

No valid comparison with Clinton at all.

And released by newspaper, not Davis.
And his behavior is no secret at all in Hollywood.
And his groping women is an important fact for voters to know.

[Classical_Liberal]

9. Paula Jones and Juanita Broderick didn't claim they consented

Sorry.

[StClone]

5. Yet to be proven, but

The question is whether the sex scandals have merit. Clinton's did not. Arnold may not but I am not convinced. Fifteen women come forward and this is staged? I have my doubts about Arnold since he admitted to some groping!

[Classical_Liberal]

6. He didn't admit to groping

He admitted to bad behavior and said specific allegations against him were untrue. Clinton's scandals were not proven by legal standards.

[HERVEPA]

11. If these are classic liberal views...

I guess I'm not one.

[Classical_Liberal]

12. I don't want to be a Herpeva

What's your point?

[mbartko]

8. With all due respect...

I'm not sure that I'm so willing to trivialize sexual assault as a "personal scandal" when it is in fact a violent crime. Yes, it would have been nice if Davis and the CA Dems would have mounted a campaign of any substance, but please don't equate one man's consensual sex outside of marriage with the non-consensual violation and exploitation of innocent victims.

[Classical_Liberal]

14. No it isn't trivializing a violent crime

anymore than assuming Clinton didn't rape Broderick was trivializing rape.

[angka]

10. kicktruthkick

they must learn by the numbers—we must teach them.

media's not gonna do it for us. but once the christians, for example, learn how much they have been lied to and manipulated (arniegov is a big part of that), they will FLEE the GOP and it will burn baby burn

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. I'd characterize them as uninformed AND stupid!

Sorry. They are so easily duped by the fascist corporate press, it is simply astonishing!

[Classical_Liberal]

16. So what is your solution?

? If Davis campaigners don't have one they should quit.

[Goldmund]

15. Are you sure that...

...the sex scandal stunts against Bill Clinton didn't work?

In other words -- I tend to think that Al Gore would be the president now if Monica never happened.

By the way, I resent any comparison between the Monica affair and Ahnuld's current troubles; one was consensual, and the other was not. That's not just a point of difference -- that's enough to render the two things incomparable.

Back to the scandals work/don't work issue -- you're forgetting one thing: for most Republican voters, allegiance to their Fuhrers is the primary impulse; everything else, from issues to scandals, is only fodder to foster that allegiance. That's why the ridiculous "ah, that's just political tricks to lay that on Ahnuld 4 days before the election" stunt seems to have worked -- as if whether the disclosure was a political trick has anything to do with the fact that he (admittedly) did these things, and therefore that all conclusions about the character of their candidate that can be drawn from those actions are valid.

They are conditioned to follow the herd. Everything else is valid only in so far as it's instrumental in directing the herd. Issues, ideology, scandals, news, conspiracies are only secondary.

They only want to be told to follow as forcefully as they can. Whether it's "vote against this guy because his affair in the Oval Office (Orifice, as Pig Boy called it) shows he's a scumbag" or "vote for this guy to show them that their political tricks of character defamation won't work", doesn't matter. Scandals are instruments for this forcefulness, since they can't yell and make grimaces over talking about highway construction.

[Classical_Liberal]

20. Yes, I am sure they didn't work

Why the hell would anyone blame Al Gore for what Clinton did to Monica? Paula Jones and Juanita Broderick didn't allege consenting sexual acts. they were still scandals.

[Goldmund]

21. For example...

...do you remember that Al Gore didn't want to be seen anywhere near Bill Clinton -- the president who brought 8 years of prosperity and what, compared to the present situation, seems like peace -- in the final few months of campaigning? Why do you think that is?

What was one of W's main soundbites in the campaign? To return "integrity and honor to the Oval Office". Do you think that soundbite would have been nearly as effective were it not for the endless smearing of Clinton in context of Monica?

[Classical_Liberal]

22. Bad political judgement.

Besides Gore won.

[Goldmund]

25. Gore should have won....

...in an undoubtable landslide, having been a part of such a succesful administration and running against such a raging idiot.

Had he won with 70 or 80% of popular vote, Shrub's tricks would have been useless.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. I don't remember a dem candidate winning by 70 to 80%

not even Clinton.

[Goldmund]

34. My point...

...holds true even if he had won 55% of the popular vote.

Besides, do you know of any equivalent situation in modern history? 8 years of unprecedented prosperity under a Dem president, balanced budget, record low unemployment, etc, etc, followed by an election with the VP of that administration as the candidate, running against a republican with room-temperature IQ?

I don't. So why would it be out of line to expect just as unprecented success of Dem candidate in that election?

But again, he didn't even need unprecedented success -- just an average victory.

[Goldmund]

23. And about Paula and Huanita --

-- the difference between that and Ahnuld is that Ahnuld admitted to what he did. He probably had to because this kind of behavior was well known to too many people.

Paula and Huanita could have been for real or right-wing political tricks. You and I don't know which it is.

[Classical_Liberal]

27. This was covered earlier in post 6

Arnold admitted to bad behavior not harrassment. Then he refuted specific claims. Not the same as an admission and if it were he would be prosecuted..

[Goldmund]

29. What specific claims did he refute?

I heard him say in that interview he did on a train that he won't talk about specific claims until after the election, and that, quote, "not all are untrue".

(Edit for square brackets)

[Classical_Liberal]

31. He said the LaTimes report was untrue

. Even if they persue it now, it doesn't mean it should have been part of the campaign, or central to the campaign against him.

[Goldmund]

35. Not true.

He didn't say that. Can you link to a quote of him saying that? He said "some of the accusations are untrue, not all" (paraphrasing).

[janekat]

26. C'mon - where were you during the 2000 election??

It most certainly was a "backlash" against Monicagate. I worked on the Gore campaign and polled people - also went around and talked to many people - both Democrats and Republicans about it. I kept on hearing the same thing over and over again.

[Classical_Liberal]

30. Maybe you did. It wasn't my experience

That is an anecdotal point.

[JasonBerry]

17. Short and well-said....

We can't expect all of the people to have the same interest we do in researching and following everything closely. That's not realistic. The whole Enron mess with the Enron connection would have resonated more than sex - which people obviously don't care about. Good post, Classical Liberal!

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Most Americans are uninformed because

they are too busy just trying to survive. Besides most people are not news junkies, like some of us around here and a lot of people don't even read anymore. The majority of folks get their info from the sound bites they hear when their channel surfing. I don't think you should blame people, it's just that's the way life is.

[Fabio]

19. I Think the American People are Misinformed

not uninformed, not stupid. I dont want to start sounding like Al Franken's book (which I love) but people dont understand the media bias we confront on a daily basis in our "news"

Could you imagine if NPR was the sole source of news?

[FlemingsGhost]

24. Nah... the average American is in deep denial.

A self-centered, mindless consumer who lacks any genuine intellectual curiosity or critical analysis skills.

They're holding fast to the myth of the "American Dream," and purposely ignoring the truth, because the frightening alternative is to accept that this nation is not immune to the corruption, lies and manipulation that we have been brainwashed into thinking we are above.

It's much easier to numb ourselves via drugs, alcohol, and television.

[Voltaire99]

32. Nice post, CL. Here's another dimension to the issue.

There's a lot to what you argue, Classical Liberal.

The Davis line boiled down to "You'll keep me in office despite our massive problems because I haven't groped anyone!" Big miscalculation. Nobody can win against economic suffering with moralizing.

Further, there may have been an even deeper miscalculation about the moral terms in the character debate. This incisive recent piece by Susan Faludi suggests there was a mystique generated by Arnold's well-documented sexual violence. I think Faludia is largely correct:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1005-01.htm

And more light is shed by this devastating essay from last summer about the fundamental misunderstanding of the center about American "values" - it suggests that crass right wing positions are closer to the ethos of our time than many want to admit:

http://www.counterpunch.org/publius07152003.html

California holds lessons for 2004. The Democrats would do well to think deeply about why they failed to beat an inexperienced, sexually-violent body builder...whose popularity, if it holds, will be a big chip to use against them in the forthcoming race.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. The first article was interesting but I can't link to the second

It leads to an article on Paul Bremer.