Changed my tune a bit about Arnold

[RobertFrancisK]

I realize that praising a republican will get me flamed like mad here, but I think this needs to be said.
Through the election, I wasn't big on Arnold at all. I thought he didn't say what he was going to do and was a moron. However, the last week really changed my opinion of him.
Arnold got a lot of shit from the press and the democrats. I realized how incredibly hypocritical we looked after defending Clinton's indiscretions while blasting Arnold for doing the same thing. I do believe that a politicians private life is his private life, period. I don't care if Bush did coke, Arnold slapped women's ass's, Bill got hummers from fat chicks, it just doesn't matter. What matters is that you can lead. Arnold didn't give a shit about these accusastions. He didn't look flustered at all, just like he was slightly dissapointed his opponents were resorting to this. That's one thing I admired about Clinton a lot, that he didn't let it get to him at all.
Now if Arnold has done anything to warrant a criminal investigation, then that is no longer his private life. If a politican does something that would land him in jail or get him fired from a real job, then it isn't their private life.
Anyway, Arnold has an R next to his name, but who knows? I think Arnold would be more likely to legalize pot than Davis or Bustamante would be. And while Arnold is a repub, his being elected may encourage a new breed of politicians, democrats and independents too, that aren't afraid of their own shadows, which would be very good for America.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. "Slapping Someone's Ass Without Their Permission Is Battery"

NT

[Classical_Liberal]

57. It is sexual harrasment because there was alleged boob grabbing too

but unless there was pain inflected, I don't think it would constitute battery. My parents slapped my rear in non sexual and non painful ways as ruff housing. Maybe I am weird but I didn't consider it battery.

[qanda]

2. When you do get flamed

And believe me you will! I cannot wait to watch you burn. You seem to have NO clue!!!!!!!!!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Am A Civil Liberterian

but my right to move my hands ends at another person's body....


That should be self evident....


btw- that applies to Dems and Republicans...

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[West Coast Democrat]

58. What? Mods don't have a sense of humor?

My post was funny.

[mac56]

5. Interesting priorities.

Unwanted physical contact toward women, including those who were subordinates on work sites = not important.
Legalizing pot = important.

Curious.

[fob]

6. "I realized how incredibly hypocritical we looked..."

Speak for yourself.

As for the rest of your epiphany, all I can say is you have a Fox "News" grasp of the details.

Suggestion 1: Look up 'consensual'

Suggestion 2: Have another job lined up and THEN, "just slap an interns ass" at your current job

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. The Clinton Brouhaha Does Cause Us To Perform Intellectual Gymnastics...

Life doesn't fit neatly into a little box....


Whatever Clinton did or didn't do didn't rise to an impeachable offense....

[library_max]

27. All that was ever proved against Clinton

was a BJ from a consenting adult intern. Nothing non-consensual. There were accusations (he was also accused of murder and selling coke), but these were largely exploded by contrary testimony, the accusers changing their story over and over, and/or a complete lack of specifics (places and times).

[fob]

44. Actually, there is an 8 year, hundreds of pages, $70 plus million

report that backs up our stance. No "intellectual gymnastics" required.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Like Bill Clinton But He Is A Man With Flaws Like All Of Us..

I'll leave it up to his detractors to regurgitate...

Arnold wasn't the first politician to have "romin" hands...

[roughsatori]

7. If a politician BREAKS the law it is the voters business and the press's

responsibility to investigate and report. Illegal drugs and sexual battery fit that category, it is really very simple. Cheating on one's husband or wife is sleazy but unfortunately legal so does not fit the category.

(Yes I know I wrote "unfortunately legal". I would not stone cheaters to death but I would approve of HARD jail time, say 1 to 5 years. LOL)

[liberalhistorian]

62. In that case, more than half of the American population would

be in jail. Adultery ain't NO ONE ELSE'S business but that of the couple involved. I can think of better ways to spend the court's time and far worse "crimes."

[pmbryant]

8. Isn't "medical marijuana" already legal in California?

Or am I mistaken?

Anyway, it's the Feds who are the real problem. Even if medical marijuana is legal in California, it is still against Federal law, and Ashcroft et al are quite enthusiastic about enforcing that particular law.

:-(

--Peter

[library_max]

66. Yeah, that's another good point

Ashcroft is never going to let California legalize pot in any meaningful way. States rights are in the toilet as far as the war on drugs is concerned.

[wtmusic]

9. Or maybe Republicans looked hypocritical

for holding Arnold to a different standard than Clinton.

[RobertFrancisK]

16. I agree 100%

No agrument here on that point whatsoever. I'm just saying that "an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind". So that this isn't too greatly misinterpretted, I'm saying more that I'm pissed at Dems for playing the republican game of smear tactics and I am impressed that Arnold shook it off. What I am saying is I hope that this signals an error were politicians can brush off accusations about ones personal life. The pot comment was a side note, that I'm sure will get a lot of play. But the thing is, we know so little about Arnold, with the Kennedy's behind him he could turn out to be pretty liberal.

[mac56]

21. You're right about one thing, at least:

The pot comment getting "a lot of play".

Minimizing the importance of Arnold's criminal behavior, and simultaneously looking forward to the possibility of legalized pot?

Sounds like a self-indulgent stoner. Is that how you meant to come across?

[RobertFrancisK]

35. Read between the lines

I was saying, that on a hopeful note, maybe Arnold is not a conservative and he showed that he isn't a wimp, so he may go to bat on liberal issues that career politician DLC dems like Davis would be too scared to touch, if Arnold is infact a liberal, which he could very well be. I am not saying he is, but it is a possibility.

On edit: Said he isn't a "wimp" instead of "isn't a pussy" so as not to be interpretted as demeaning women, which was not the intention.

[mac56]

36. You keep digging yourself in deeper, friend.

Is it necessary to resort to demeaning terms about women?

True colors are shining through.

[RobertFrancisK]

39. Fixed on edit

Misinterrpretted it again. Read between the lines, stop Limbaugh-style smear tactics.

[mac56]

42. You're unbelievable.

Limbaugh-style smear tactics?!

Pot, meet kettle.

[pmbryant]

22. You're grasping at straws

But the thing is, we know so little about Arnold, with the Kennedy's behind him he could turn out to be pretty liberal.

Is James Carville secretly conservative because he is married to Mary Matalin, or vice versa?

--Peter

[liberalhistorian]

64. Actually, Ted Kennedy most

assuredly does NOT support Arnold, and was not at all pleased with his candidacy.

[liberalhistorian]

63. EXACTLY!

Thank you for pointing out what should be very obvious!

[cally]

10. How can you not have a clue about what he did

and why it is wrong? Grabbing women's breasts, telling 16 year olds that you plan to rape them, dry humping them without their consent is a crime. I sure hope someone sues him and his production company for not providing a safe workplace for women. These women could make millions.

Of course, he was not flustered. He knew these would be published and he had prepped on how to answer them.

Finally, look at his inane comments on how to solve the budget crisis. He's an idiot without a clue but I'm no happy you admire him..not

[Love Bug]

11. As a woman

your opinion illustrates why so many men (and women!) voted for Arnold. You. Just. Don't. Get. It. Consensual sex ("fat chick"--don't get me started on that--Monica L. smoking Bill's pole) does not equal UNINVITED grabbing, pinching, squeezing, etc. women's private parts. Never has. Never will.

[KoKo]

12. Legalizing Pot is your #1 Priority? After you say it doesn't matter how

men treat women? How people treat each other IS important! Just look at the Repugs if you need an answer about why it's important.

As to the importance of legalizing Pot. OMG. I have bigger worries than that. I think other people do, also.

[City Lights]

13. Have you realized how incredibly hypocritical

the pukes look? They have been waging war against Bill Clinton since 1992. They claim he has no morals, no values and blame him for every ill that ails us, blah, blah, blah. Then they turn around and embrace arnold.

I've seen this argument in emails and letters to the editor and I'm sick of it.

[RobertFrancisK]

agreed agreed

No arguement on that point.

[Name removed]

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[bloom]

17. Sounds like legalizing pot is all you care about....n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

18. and THAT my friends

is an example of what we have before us in the next election.The hills we must climb. As if this Arnold guy is ANYTHING ELSE but a front for the Pete Wilson interests bounced from power by Gray Davis.

Look, Arnold is a LOT of things, but avatar for populism is not one of them. For you to buy into all their specious arguments is a very bad sign for the democratic party in general. And you are by no means alone.

[ibegurpard]

30. yup

A lot of this kind of shit popping up on here the past few days.

[CWebster]

19. The point has been made

that gross abuse of women is brushed off as inconsequential in those we elevate to "lead" us. So, where are they leading us if the bar of ethical behavior is an ignored measure of character in our role models?

It matters for sports figures but not elected representitives of the people's interest?

[Snellius]

20. It's just the romantic flush of a honeymoon period

It will pass. Except for his all-suffering and insufferable wife everyone who has ever worked with him for very long hates him. The body-building community, Hollywood, now the whole country will see what an egomanical and childish despot he is.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Have you recently suffered a massive head injury?

First: Clinton was involved in what was admittedly an adulterous but nonetheless CONSENSUAL relationship with Ms. Lewinsky. Mr. Schwarzenegger, on the other hand, seems to feel that "consent" is an unnecesary formality. His actions, in fact, fall under the category of ASSAULT (assault being legally defined as unlawful and unwanted forced physical contact).

[tom_paine]

24. Puh-leeze!

Sexual Battery is the same as cosensual sex?

In what fucking universe are these the same?

Very Fair and Balanced of you. Great choice of name for the work you do.

[onehandle]

25. ANY elected R is a tentacle of Rove...

California is on a silver platter for Bush.

[chaumont58]

26. Incredible!

You wrote:

"Arnold got a lot of shit from the press and the democrats. I realized how incredibly hypocritical we looked after defending Clinton's indiscretions while blasting Arnold for doing the same thing"

You describe it as the same thing! Truly incredible! Will you be addressing this comparison is any of your responses to the critiques of your post? I would truly love to hear how they are the same thing.

[RobertFrancisK]

31. Paula Jones said the same thing

She claimed she was harrassed, we brushed it off and said it's his private life.
Plus, to play devils advocate, any man of power having sex with a very young subordinate could be considered nonconsensual.

[ibegurpard]

32. Paul Jones was brushed off because she wasn't credible

I think you're confusing that one with Monica Lewinsky...that
WAS consensual and none of our business.

[mac56]

34. Paula Jones had her day in court.

"We" didn't "brush it off".

How about this? Let's give all of Arnold's accusers their days in court too!

[RobertFrancisK]

37. No problem with that

If there are credible criminal charges against him, then that's another issue altogether. What I am saying is people jumped all over him because of personal issues immediatly for political gain, and that dissapoints me.

[ibegurpard]

38. Well, you can be disappointed in your ivory tower

while the rest of us try to respond to a Republican machine intent on stamping out opposition by any means necessary.

[mac56]

40. You keep confusing "criminal" with "personal".

At least a dozen women have come forward. Sounds like credible criminal charges to me.

[chaumont58]

54. It gets more incredible

You are puting the onus on his accusers and not him.

"What I am saying is people jumped all over him because of personal issues immediatly for political gain, and that dissapoints me."

If I tell the truth, must I be careful not to tell the truth until Wednesday, or Thursday? Must I be pure of heart when I tell the truth?

[chaumont58]

50. Are you saying that Paula Corbin said she was groped?

I must have missed that. You still haven't answered the question of whether or not you think groping is the same as consensual sex? Is groping even sex? Is it just an exhibition of power?

[RobertFrancisK]

56. Here we go

I am not condoning groping. Are you condoning adultery if it's consensual? No, I'd imagine you are not. I am saying that it is none of our god damn business, and stays that way until he's convicted guilty in court. I said this all through Clinton's administrarion and my principles don't stop when a republican is in office.

[chaumont58]

68. I'm not condoning either, but I am able to tell the difference

Consensual sex in the form of adultry is not a crime. You make find it morally unattractive, but it is not a crime.

"I am saying that it is none of our god damn business, and stays that way until he's convicted guilty in court."

I'm a voter, and its none of my business that 15 women come forward to accuse Swatzengroper of groping?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Arianrhod]

29. This recall was about one thing only: Republican power grab.

That is the bottom line. Right now, voting for ANYONE with an "R" next to his/her name is a vote for *. It's that simple.

Our work in 2004 has just been made all that much harder.

[OneTwentyoNine]

33. Ohh Gawd,not that "lets not sink to their level" crap AGAIN.....

The Dems lived by that slogan for years and years when Pigboy started his assault on Clinton. Fight back?? No,no,no...we can't sink to that level. So on and on it went with another 10 screaming,flaming RW'ers hitting the airwaves. Then another 10,then it spread to TV.

Yeah,lets just sit back and take the Repigs lies,BS,misrepresentation etc.. for another decade or so and see how we come out....

David

[RobertFrancisK]

43. Policy attacks and personal attacks are two different things

Let's go after Bush on lying about weapons of mass destruction, the badly planned war and the tax cuts, but just calling him evil and a facist gets us nowhere.

[haymaker]

51. I have to say it again,

speak for yourself.

[thinkn_4_myself]

55. Totally agree

Exactly. I'm an independent. I take things at face value. In my opinion, most politicians are money and power-hungry and certainly do not have the best interests of the people in mind. However, remarks like evil and facist, etc., etc., etc. make people look desperate for something to say.

Attack his policies. Back up your arguments. Provide me with some reason why I should listen to you. There is PLENTY to talk about in the case of Mr. Bush that you could argue about AND BACK UP. Why just call him evil?

[chaumont58]

61. Good God, they don't make the distinction

They don't care! They have no need to be holier than thou, whereas you seem to crave it.
This seems to be a large part of the problem for Democrats. One of the blogs discussed it today.
Repukes make no distinction between personal attacks and policy attacks. They don't care. They are winning right now. 300 plus Americans are DEAD because they are winning. What would you say to one of the mothers, or sisters, or widows? "Well, we are more moral than them!"

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[nansocal]

45. You don't get it.....

the reason that it didn't faze arnold is because he doesn't ( I think to this day) think he did anything wrong. that so called apology was obviously just to get votes. I agree maria has to deal with this problem, like hillary. but the hypocrisy of the right wing on this moral matter is outrageous and should not be just taken lightly. you must be equally impressed how they were able to focus on "puke tactics". then the moral right letting arnolds gropes pass so they could get the governorship.

[haymaker]

46. Wrong again,

The LA Times wrote the articles. Not the Dems. They just commented on them. It is kind of disturbing, all those women and Arnold feeling them up and saying some pretty fucked up things.

Again, for the hard of hearing, IT WAS THE PRESS IN GENERAL AND THE LA TIMES SPECIFICALLY THAT WROTE THOSE STORIES. THE DEMS JUST COMMENTED ON THE STORIES. DUH.

Saying that he was being attacked by his opponents is bullshit Repulican lies. But you knew that.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

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[mac56]

52. You're wrong on so many levels.

Are you sure you're at the right website?

A couple concepts for you to review:

Consensual v. non-consensual
GOP witch hunt

Go review these and then come back.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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[mac56]

70. Cute.

My apologies. I didn't notice the line in the user agreement that said "dissenting opinions are not allowed."

And how do we know when these women stepped forward? Arnold had only been campaigning about a month.

And you really think the lie is what got Clinton impeached? So when will Dubya get impeached for all his WMD lies?

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Arnold is a "serial groper"

which means he fondles OTHER women when his WIFE is not around.....he is married, you know and it's illegal to manhandle people...none of it was consensual. The man should be sued and I hope he is. He also made promises that he can't keep. Car tax? Won't raise taxes? I can't wait to see how he plans on paying for everything he needs money for. Should be interesting. If Arnold wanted to be Governor of Ca., he should have waited for the "real" election instead of that recall fiasco. He's just as illegitimate as the shrub, IMCPO

edited for spelling.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

53. Gutsy move, Robert. If there's going to be a Republican as Gov

in "Cauli-fornia" Arnold is a as good as it can get. Fun control, gay rights and pro choice? I think he might do well. Lets see.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. Clintons "indescretion" was CONSENTUAL...do you NOT understand this?

i guess according to your stinkin thinkin it's just fine and dandy for Arnold to grope/assult your mother, sister or daughter as long as he shares a dubbie with you?
jays'us :freak:

[maggrwaggr]

60. groping a woman without her consent isn't "PRIVATE"

you jackass.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

If Arnold gets a blowjob in his trailer from some girl he knows, that's his private life. If he assaults a woman by pinning her against a wall and sticking his tongue in her mouth, that's not private.

Get a clue.

[Eloriel]

67. I've alerted on the original post

and also posted about it in Ask Administrators.

Defending sexual assault and the term "fat chicks" are both sexist. Sexism is against DU rules.

I would hope others who care about the level of sexism rampant on DU would alert as well -- on this and any and all future occurrences of sexism at DU.

Eloriel

[AnnabelLee]

69. Locking

This thread was started by a member who has since been banned.

AnnabelLee
DU Moderator