Sealed Records: Dean feared a 'Horton' scenario

[wyldwolf]

In the course of negotiating an unprecedented 10-year period for keeping his official papers confidential, former Vermont governor Howard Dean through his legal counsel explored the possibility of making the privacy period contingent on whether he was running for president, according to newly released documents.

Discussions between the counsel and the state archivist about a potentially longer sealing period centered around the possibility that a future political opponent of Dean's might seize on a document and use it as ammunition, according to the correspondence.

A seal longer than 10 years would have significantly eclipsed periods sought by previous Vermont governors, who traditionally received six-year seals for their official papers.

Dean, who left the governor's office in January 2003 and is now seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, agreed in the end to a decade-long seal -- with no extension -- for nearly half of his official correspondence, meaning the documents will be available for public viewing in 2013. Shortly before he left office, Dean told Vermont Public Radio, "Well, there are future political considerations. We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

In an interview with the Globe in July, he said in response to a request that he waive the seal, "No, it's sealed for a reason."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/09/dean_feared_a_horton_scenario/

[Bandit]

1. I'm sure his opponents will find enough dirt to fill many papers with.

No one has a perfect background. I'm sure there are decisions he made that in retrospect he may have made differently. I don't like this (sealing papers)but if he turns out to be the Democratic nominee I will vote for him. If the attacks come from Republicans over this matter just refer them to Bush*'s records. What they are sealed, oh too bad.

[soothsayer]

2. He's afraid to hear a who? [n/t]

[wyldwolf]

3. That is exactly the first thought I had after reading the headline!

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Me, too! Dr. Seuss has had a pervasive influence. n/t

[ReadTomPaine]

8. "Boil that dust speck!" <nt>

[wyldwolf]

15. we are here we are here we are Heeeeeeere!

[MidwestTransplant]

4. I don't think the Republicans will be able to make much hay

about this. Didn't Bush seal 41s records? Clintons too, against his wishes?

[wyldwolf]

6. Yes...

...and I was against that, too. However, I think the Bush situation was a lot more sinister than this. It seemed clear Bush was hiding something.

As for Dean, it could be a potential low-grade issue.

Why should the GOP worry about appearing hypocritical at this point?

[Skwmom]

7. A Pres can argue he sealed them because of national security

A bogus argument but most people will buy it.

[wyldwolf]

Ever wonder if Bush sealed the records of his dad and Clinton...

..because of contrary evidence to W's Iraq plans?

[Bandit]

12. You forget he sealed Reagan's papers also.

Reagan who sold arms to our enemy. High Treason. It was against the law to do so also. Congress passed an act stating all presidential records must be released after twelve years. Bush* overrode Congressional Law and got away with it. :wtf: How did the Democrats let him get away with that? That happened nine months before 9-11 so National Security can not be a legitimate excuse.

[9119495]

13. o

[Demobrat]

5. Most of that stuff is from the time of the gay rights battle.

There is correspondence in there from people who have the right to privacy. In other words, gays who may not wish to be outed. Could it be that Dean actually considered the privacy of others when he sealed those records? Naaah. It was all about him, of course.

[Skwmom]

9. His statements show that he was worried about his own

future political career. What spin.

[Demobrat]

20. You mean this statement?

"Well, there are future political considerations. We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

He didn't say embarassing to who, did he? He's protecting others, and I'm sure he will make that clear when asked about it ad infinitum. You're going to have to dig a little deeper than this for dirt.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. Take Off the Blinders, Please

It is obvious that Dean sealed these records out of concern for HIS future endeavors:

Discussions between the counsel and the state archivist about a potentially longer sealing period centered around the possibility that a future political opponent of Dean's might seize on a document and use it as ammunition, according to the correspondence.

It's not necessarily a bad move, actually, unless his opponents seize upon this and make it an issue. Then it becomes a problem.

DTH

[Cha]

28. You "take Off your blinders"!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

30. What Childishness Is This?

"I know you are but what am I?"

Try disputing my statement, please.

DTH

[Demobrat]

33. OK, I will. And you just go on thinking

he is hiding something nefarious, if it makes you feel good. Whatever works.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

35. I Wouldn't Say "Nefarious"

But it's clear he was concerned about something in that record.

Again, I think sealing the records was a smart political move...unless this Judicial Watch thing starts to get any play.

DTH

[KittyWampus]

25. Demobrat, Couldn't He Black Out Individual Names?

Sorry but the "not want to out or endanger a gay individual" seems completely bogus to me.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

26. It Seems Bogus Because It's Clearly Untrue

Based on the rest of the article.

DTH

[Capn Sunshine]

10. Im curious: do you EVER post about other issues?

Like traitorgate of the BFEE or the Iraq morass or Black Box Voting or renewable energy or the Peak Oiltheories or PNAC or any conspiracy theory or the Saudi attack on our country on 9/11, any of a myriad of issues that the Bush machine is doing to innocents bot abroad and at home,

or are you a one note samba?

[wyldwolf]

14. If the answer is important to you, search for it through the archives..

...just to get you started:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=502410

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=502347

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=502330&mesg_id=502330

[artr2]

36. No, if you see wyldwolf as the poster it's a slime on Dean

Don't believe me just check out his posts that he starts - nothing about how good his canditate is - just attack attack attack - we get the message and ignore it - one note sally

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skwmom]

11. Someone should bring this up in the debate

because if he is the Dem nominee you can bet money that the Repubs will run an ad along the lines of "what is Howard Dean trying to hide."

It won't matter that Bush sealed records - he can claim national security and people will accept that fact (plus who would want to use as a defense that the crook Bush did it too)>

Furthermore, they will use Dean's own words to refute any claim that he did it to protect outing a gay constituent.

[w4rma]

17. Bush can't claim national security for his Texas records

or his father's presidential records or the records of Clinton's that Bush sealed in spite of Clinton's disagreement with Bush.

And no Democratic opponent can make hay of this because Clark has his NEA administration records sealed and all the Congresscritters have their Congressional records sealed.

Besides, Vermont is a small state and I am absolutely sure that there isn't anything in Dean's records that would bother me. I am sure that the Republicans will try to latch onto any straw and spin it, exactly like you are doing, Skwmom.

[JNelson6563]

22. Yeah, really! Bring it!

I highly doubt the R's are going to cry foul about sealed records. So easilly countered with I'll show you mine if you show me yours. ;-)

Julie

[Cha]

29. Spin Spin Spin!

[Ramsey]

16. Some perspective

All governors seal records, I think whether Dean sealed them for 6 versus 10 years isn't such a big deal. Bush has sealed some of his Texas governor's records, and nearly every other governor in history has as well. I don't know where the article got its figures, but the campaign says that about 95% of Dean's official records from his governorship are in the public domain. The sealed records are personal letters, emails and files, and they are sealed to protect people's privacy. I heard Steve Grossman, one of the top Dean campaign managers, make that statement this morning

I cannot believe that the Secrecy Administration is going to get much mileage out of this issue either. Doesn't it simply highlight how much the White House has kept from the public. And if they start screeching about "national security", how does that apply to Cheney's Energy task Force? They've never said those records were related to national security, only that the White House deserves to get secret counsel so that people feel free to speak their mind. Not to mention, all we have to do is find out how much of Bush's Texas records are still sealed as a counterpoint.

[uberotto]

18. When has anyone in politics let facts get in their way...

of a good old fashion mud slingin'. Besides made up facts are better because with real facts, you have to do so much twistin an spinnin to get them to fit with your agenda.

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. There's no huge secrets hidden in the sealed records

In Vermont, our entire political process takes place publicly. The meetings and sessions are all open to the public. There is NO WAY something could be kept hidden in this state. There are too many people who pay very close attention to politics here. The records are his correspondence as governor. Dean is really big on protecting the privacy of people. He doesn't have anything to hide, and he's probably the cleanest politician in the country. I'm sure there are items in the records that could be misconstrued from lack of information in letters. Just think about correspondence that people typically have, and how they answer questions about something that no one else would understand if they didn't see all the exchanges. Dean is smart in that he looked ahead to think about this. He's not running to lose. He's an honest politician and always has been. But that doesn't mean that he wants to let the GOP have access to letters that could have to potential to look suspicious even if they aren't. Just look at how some have twisted other innocent comments he's made to make it sound like he said something very different than he actually did. Do you REALLY want to give Rove more to twist and spin? I don't. Private letters are perfectly acceptable to be sealed, by all candidates, not just Dean. That includes Republicans too. Democrats really need to stop shooting themselves in the foot by attempting to handicap their own candidates against the opposition. What the hell team is everyone on, anyway? Any complaining about being financially competitive or taking the same defensive measures in order to compete is dumb, in my opinion.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. but he didn't say that was the reason.

he said "there's A reason". Were it a simple matter of privacy he could just say so. But apparently he's not smart enough to. :shrug:

[Ramsey]

34. He is saying so

At least his campaign is saying so. I heard Steve Grossman, a top person in his campaign, give protecting people's privacy as the explanation when asked about this very issue at a strategy session I attended this morning.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. So it took 3 months to change: "No, it's sealed for a reason."

to: "it's to protect people's privacy". If Dean really believed that then he should have had that answer in July.

Dean supporters would do well to examine this a little more.

[Demobrat]

44. The reason was privacy.

What's so hard to understand about this, considering the battles he fought over gay rights? Is it so unbelievable that he would want to protect the very people he was willing to risk his career, and even his life for? When it was perfectly legal for him to do so? What is the dirty little secret you all are so sure he's hiding anyway? That he released some prisoner before the prisoner's time was up? Or something else?

[wyldwolf]

45. You're entire argument is based on the belief this has to do with ...

..gay rights, a proposition you've dreamed up. Thus, your argument is very flimsy. Based entirely on guesses and speculation.

[Demobrat]

47. I dreamed that he signed the first civil unions bill into law?

That he had to wear a bullet proof vest at the time? Wow, that was quite a dream. But now that you've proven that I made up the whole gay rights scenario, maybe you can tell me just exactly what you think he's hiding? Since it's couldn't possibly be about privacy, as his lying (or maybe they're dreaming too) aids have asserted.

[wyldwolf]

50. No, but you apparantly dreamed that this is the reason for the seal...

..I mean, NO SOURCE is saying that the reason he sealed his records is to protect gay people or for gay rights of for anything having to do with him signing the civil union bill.

Well, no source but you. :)

[Demobrat]

51. See post #34

Unless of course you don't consider his top aids to be sources.

On edit: I really wish you'd answer my question about what you think is there.

[AP]

21. Dean's Horton would be if liberals saw just how corporate-friendly he was

as governor. That's my suspicion, anyway.

[Demobrat]

27. Dean's Horton is gay rights.

His stance on that will of course be used against him, but there's no point in giving his enemies names to name.

[Cha]

31. That's right...the spinners just are lookin' for anything to make

their candidate look better.

[Demobrat]

42. Yeah, I don't know if it's sad or funny.

If they're smart they'll realize there's nothing there and move on to his and his wife's medical licenses. Oh, wait. They already tried that. Oh well, there's always his trash can!

[AP]

46. Saying that he's protecting the privacy of gay people could

create as much fuss as if the letters these people wrote to their elected official were available.

I don't believe this is true. I think it's spin. And that the spin is aimed at calming people on the left suggests to me that he's actually hiding something that hurts him from the left, not the right.

But you can never be sure.

It is probably true, however, that whatever's in there probably doesn't comport with his new persona. He's trying to create a new identity without having to answer to the past. It's just not clear, I guess, whether he's afraid of how the left or the right (or both) would react to the information which is sealed.

[Demobrat]

48. OK, fine, don't believe it.

Cling to your dream that there's something there that can hurt him.

[AP]

56. You keep dreaming that there isn't.

By the way, I read the post below about the Philadelphia meeting. I commend the Dean people in the room who had the courage to challenge the campaign.

And I should note, big businesses and their lobbyists write personal correspondance too, and they probably write way more letters than gays who write their governor, disclosing their sexuality, but don't want people other than the governor to know about it.

[Ramsey]

53. Just to clarify

I think we've gotten a bit more specific than what I was told. Steve Grossman, a top operative in the Dean Campaign, was asked about this exact issue this morning at a strategy session I attended in Philadelphia. I will summarize his statement as accurately as I can.

He said that about 95% of Dean's gubernatorial papers/records were in the public domain. He said that the papers Dean chose to seal are personal correspondance and that they are sealed to protect the privacy of both Dr. Dean and the correspondants.

The people at the meeting expressed the opinion that Dean should be less combative about this issue and explain it more clearly when asked, and the campaign acknowledged that this was wise advice. Mr. Grossman said that Dean believes he has a right to his privacy and that of his correspondants, and that this is a reasonable standard. He also said that all governors seal records, and that this whole issue was being blown out of proportion.

At no point did he say that the personal communications were sealed to protect his correspondance specifically regarding the civil unions issue.

And as an aside, I am not sure why absolute perfection and perfect consistency on the part of the candidate is the only acceptable behaviour for some. When challenged on his stance on Medicare, and the fact that he had changed it, Dean explained that as a doctor and a scientist, he forms a hypothesis and then gathers data. If the data points to a different outcome than the hypothesis predicted then he will change his stance. Wouldn't we rather have someone willing to look at the facts and make rational decisions based upon them, then the current "we know we are right, don't bother us with the facts" ideologues that we are currently burdened with??

[DemBones DemBones]

37. The problem is that the seal is on Dean's OFFICIAL correspondence

not his private correspondence. That suggests to me that Dean is worried about something he wrote to someone in his official capacity as governor of Vermont.

What people wrote to him is unlikely to harm him and his comments indicate concern for his political career, not noble concern that someone might be unintentionally outed. The talk about outing people comes from Dean supporters who spin his decision.

I don't see how sealing official correspondence would ward off a Horton scenario, if we take that as literally meaning a politically embarrassing decision regarding a prisoner's release.


"Dean, who left the governor's office in January 2003 and is now seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, agreed in the end to a decade-long seal -- with no extension -- for nearly half of his official correspondence, meaning the documents will be available for public viewing in 2013. "

[Demobrat]

41. It was in his official capacity of Governor of Vermont

that he signed the civil unions bill into law, against rabid opposition. Just so there's no confusion.

[Ripley]

39. Wow somone from Kerry's hometown trying to play the Dukakis

card. I'm simply astonished I tell you.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. show me where Dukakis sealed his records

BTW Duke was as clean and honorable as you can get.

[0rganism]

49. Ever wonder why W sealed his Texas papers?

And what the hell is Jeb doing in Florida? Didn't he move his papers to a library that he subsequently demolished, or some such?

I'm GLAD Dean sealed his governor's papers, at least the Rove machine won't have an unfair advantage.

[DrFunkenstein]

52. "Democracies die behind closed doors"

"I'm GLAD Dean sealed his governor's papers, at least the Rove machine won't have an unfair advantage."

Ouch! Ouch! The spin is hurting me!

[gully]

54. Much ado about nothing..

Many Governors seal their records. And, many do so for 10 years. In fact some do for 20.

Furthermore, the information sealed in Vermont is said to be quite boring.

I'll post an article later which better illustrates my claims.

[bluestateguy]

55. Again

It should be a bargaining chip. When * releases his TX Gov. records and the Reagan papers the Dean papers will be released. This is not rocket science.