Clark Is Tight With Kissinger

[DrFunkenstein]

I was reading an article from Al-Jazeerah about The New Republic (they seem unaware of Dean's AIPAC-paid trip to visit Sharon, and the lavish promises he made to him) when I came across this bombshell at the very end of the article:

"Henry Kissinger, who personally despises Donald Rumsfeld, and who fears the growing rift between the United States and France and Germany, is close to Wesley Clark. So is Madeleine Albright."

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2003%20Opinion%20Editorials/October/9%20o/The%20Israel%20lobby%20,%20Martin%20Peretz,%20Al%20Gore,%20and%20Future%20of%20the%20Democrats%20By%20Richard%20Cummings.htm

Does anyone know anything about this? I can't think of anyone more despicable in the world than the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Kissinger, so this news is pretty devastating to me. So devastating that I'm hesitant to believe it, because it would seriously smack down any sense of Clark's moral legitimacy in my eyes.

<>

[madmax]

1. Define 'close'

The article also goes on to say:

'Clark could also be Martin Peretz’s ultimate choice, the substitute for the Al Gore he tutored the way Aristotle tutored Alexander the Great. Should Clark gain momentum, this could result in Bush’s defeat. But would America be on a different track in the Middle East? Clark has endorsed Dean’s position on Israel-Palestine, calling for an “even-handed” policy. While he is not perfect, his election would be a considerable improvement.'

[Selwynn]

2. Don't know, but I have great disease towards Kissenger...

I have some pretty big concerns about Kissenger, if he was to play any kind of role in a Clark adminstation... well, that would be uncomfortable for me, and I'd have to think about my response.

[Eloriel]

3. Yeah, I have problems with people

who choose to associate, and BE associated, with people like Kissinger. People who are in positions of power and influence have a responsibility to know who they're dealing with, and a moral responsibility to "just say no" to such associations.

Eloriel

[KittyWampus]

4. This Went From- Kissinger Is Tight With Clark

To Kissinger playing a role in a Clark administration

Because of an off-hand comment in an Arabic News outlet...

Bizarro!

[madmax]

7. Sometimes I think we're reading tea leaves.

The one sentence in that article:

"Henry Kissinger, who personally despises Donald Rumsfeld, and who fears the growing rift between the United States and France and Germany, is close to Wesley Clark. So is Madeleine Albright."

I dunno - what does it mean? Absolutely nothing.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Something to consider

It's possible to know someone, get along well with them, and still differ from them.

Also, when al-Jazeerah reports that Kissinger is "close to" Clark, they are not saying it with complete objectivity, nor do they want to. Journalism can never be truly objective, and I don't fault al-J for having its own biases.

Many members of our ruling class know Kissinger well. He was a professor at Harvard for quite some time, and gave thousands of lectures to academics and politicians alike. Many of them have been his students. And many of them abhor the things Kissinger has done, while acknowleging having learned a great deal from him.

I would want a real case be made for Clark being in thrall to Kissinger, not just rumor-mongering about social politeness from sources that don't like Clark or Kissinger.

(Incidentally, "Christopher Hitchens" and "despicable" also have a close association.)

--bkl

[Toucano]

9. How DARE you...

bring reason and rational thought to an inflamatory thread! If he even LOOKED at Kissinger from across a busy highway, I want nothing to do with this Clark fellow!

<sarcasm off>

[Selwynn]

52. No one was being inflammatory....

Until you came in with your sarcastic post. I'm not out of line to say that association with kissenger concerns me. It may be nothing, it may be something I don't know, I'm not making any conclusions or advocating any kind of action I'm just saying that it is a CONCERN. So get over yourself.

[ReadTomPaine]

31. I agree - Hitchens is a toad. BTW great book cover!

[DrFunkenstein]

33. Agreed - Hitchens is a Pretty Slimy Character

Who tries to get by on his "charming" accent and swollen prose.

[ReadTomPaine]

34. LOL he'd also be a lot more 'charming' if he shaved and bathed!

esp. before his seemingly countless TV appearances.

[bluefire2000]

6. What - Kissinger is running Clark's campaign?

But seriously,

Without more context and definition, this means nothing.

[rucky]

8. Wow! A Clark/Kissinger Ticket?!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Kissinger Was Born In Germany

NT

[DemCam]

38. Orrin's gonnna fix that little problem...

but Heinrich may be a bit aged by the time the amendment passes.

[dutchdemocrat]

44. Is he backing Arnie?

German Jew backs son of Nazi?

[DrFunkenstein]

10. Apparently Their Connection is Acxiom

WHY QUIT HENRY? – IS IT ACXIOM?

When Dr. K (Kissinger) withdrew as co-chairman of the commission to investigate the 9/11 terrorist attacks after refusing to make his client list public, he bitterly asserted his consulting business represented no foreign companies or governments that would constitute a conflict of interest with his duties on the commission.

Other examples could be cited but in this writer’s opinion, the association Dr. K is most afraid might be made public is with the little known company Acxiom.

Hardly a household name (we will try to change that), Acxiom appears to have been selected the lead company to provide software and pull together the network to furnish the information to DARPA’s “Information Awareness Office” (IAO) where John Poindexter of Iran-Contra infamy will prepare individual dossiers on every American citizen and the millions of aliens (legal and illegal) in the country.

....

However, someone else obviously has an investment to protect as well. Jackson Stephens, the powerful Arkansas billionaire, has two men placed on the Board of Directors. One, General Wesley K. Clark of the Stephens Group is the former Supreme Commander of NATO and with Stephens backing appears to be gearing up for a run for the Democrat presidential nomination in 2004. The second Stephens man on the board is Stephen M. Patterson, a former director of the Stephens/Lippo Worthen Bank and its successor Bank of America-Arkansas.

Prior to linking with the Stephens interests, Acxiom had operated for over thirty years under several different names. It changed from a bus manufacturer to a data collection company over the span of those years. Acxiom claims to have personal data on over 190 million Americans which it has been selling to marketing and credit rating organizations.

Yes Henry, it is understandable why you ducked and ran when it looked like you might have to disclose your relationship with Acxiom/Alltel/Systematics and Jackson Stephens.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg108164.html

Note: I chopped this up for brevity.

[Zynx]

11. This is disturbing if true.

So is a picture from 1994 of Clark being chummy with Ratko Mladic. That one really made me reconsider my support of Clark.

[Toucano]

17. Just so you know

"At the time Clark met with Mladic, Clark was director of strategy, plans and policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. According to a 1999 Newsweek article, those who knew the general chalked it up to a last bid for a diplomatic solution when the international plan to divide Bosnia appeared destined to fail. Despite Clark's meeting with Mladic, the plan did fail. Yet the US continued to negotiate with Milosevic and, at Milosevic's insistence, Mladic. Clark was a key player in negotiating the Dayton Peace Accords, and it should be noted that no amnesty was afforded to either Milosevic or Mladic for their role in atrocities against Muslims."

http://blogs.salon.com/0002556/2003/09/22.html

[Zynx]

20. That makes me feel a little better.

Still, the picture of them exchanging hats and sidearms and him accepting a bottle of liquor from Mladic really rattled my support for Clark. Mladic has something like 230,000 deaths tied to his name and anyone who met with him is suspect in my eyes. Well, even if Clark doesn't seem to be what I thought he was, I always have a fall back position in Dean.

[WoodrowFan]

41. not an untypical meeting

kind of typical for the meeting of two commanders at a diplomatic function. I suspect the same happened along the DMZ in Korea between DPRK and US commanders. I've also read that many, if not most, of those 230,000 came AFTER the meeting with Clark.

[Julien Sorel]

12. LOL

Devastated. You might just have to go and support Kerry now.

[paulk]

13. I'd need a source more objective than aljazzerah

before I made any decisions regarding Clark.

[nolabels]

54. Okay then since objective can be the same as unobjective in ways.....

People like to twist things around in today’s modern world. So can anyone really answer the question of how much evidence one needs to consider for correct course for there actions? I can more than agree that unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo are some times worse than the real facts.

My take on Clark is he somewhat of a nationalist, which people like the Rothschild will find easy ways to play on.

I chose not to pick any poison, but that does not mean if didn't pick one that I can't learn about it anyway. The reason I chose to reply to your post is because of the ambiguity and the thinking someone needs to make a choice in the here and now. There are quite of few months left before the act of the ceremonial choice has to be made.

There is more than enough time for people to jump on a different horse or to just get off all together and walk through the wilderness with their personal integrity intact. I am staying away from any choices for candidates. I would rather stay hungry walking in the wilderness than to take the poison like a good little __________.

Thanks for the thought of keeping an open mind, so few of them types around anymore

The reason I came to the thread is because I saw Henrys name so I had to check it out.. What I have offer up is evidence that Clark does runs around with these folks. But I haven’t spent a lot of time with it because I figured it should be enough for a person like me who would have dismissed Clark before even thinking about it. I was not really looking for a whole lot on Clark stuff but that name keeps popping up. So here are a couple of relevant ones from my point of view.

(one post in here has them together pimping for Arms at the same convention)
Is Henry Kissinger a war criminal, fascist or just misunderstood
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=345935

What You Need To Know About Wesley Clark
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=226326

Here is another one some might find interesting
http://www.infowars.com/print/nwo/schwartz_roths.htm

ON edit spelling

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I Like Madeline Albright

She is a small l liberal in the best sense of the word....

I wouldn't trade one Madeline Albright for one hundred of her successors...


You can have Henry.....

[Donna Zen]

16. Now let's see.....

All of the people mentioned are considered foreign policy experts, all of them have their own ideas, all of them have met, all of them would enjoy discussion about foreign policy at an elevated level....

Get ready for the big leap, because that's what we do here....

They are NBB (New best friends)

When ideology trumps facts to reach a preconceived opinion, one is presented with twisted logic signifying nothing. That is what the regime does to this country everyday. The practice amounts to filling the people to the brim with lies. It is<b> wrong </b> no matter what political agenda one pursues. And as long as one follows this path, the first lie is told to oneself.

[Toucano]

18. Bravo! n/t

[montanacowboy]

19. I watched Clark's speech

on the Tom Harkin Iowa thing and was very disturbed about his Israel/Palestine stance. He is very PRO Israel and he mentioned Kissinger several times in a very positive light, THAT'S WHEN I TURNED CLARK OFF - DONE - COOKED AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED.

[Julien Sorel]

23. I didn't hear him mention Kissinger once.

His Israel position does suck, but he's actually the only one honest enough, except Lieberman, to say going in what he would do in office. Maybe Kerry would do different. Of the rest, I actually think Clark is the best bet to stand up to the Israeli lobby.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. I Didn't Hear Him Mention Kissinger Either

By the way, everyone, we're talking about the Harkin "Hear It From the Heartland" town hall forum, NOT the Steak Fry (which Clark did not attend, as he was not yet a candidate).

DTH

[Dr Fate]

21. Has Bill Clinton or Al Gore ever met Kissinger?

Have either of these two ever met, talked with, or agreed in part with other well known Republicans? I hope not- that would mean that they too are "Bush moles" and "secret republicans"...

Am I getting the "logic" right on this one?

[TLM]

39. Clark did not just meet kissinger....

he worked for him in teh CSIS lobbyist firm.

[JNelson6563]

22. he did seem to speak favorably of HK

recently. Could it have been at the Harken steak fry? I told myself at the time, having perked up at the mention of that wretched war criminal, many folks do not know what an evil man HK is and it was just politics. After mulling that I considered the fact that he was addressing Dems, as in primary voting Dems, core supporters of the party. I know if I wanted to make a positive impression on that demographic I wouldn't be doing that particular brand of name-dropping.

I guess we'll see what comes of this, if anything. :shrug:

Julie

[leetrisck]

24. Connection may be thru Mac McClarty

in Arkansas to Kissinger in some manner - not sure

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Both Worked For Acxiom

WHY QUIT HENRY? – IS IT ACXIOM?

When Dr. K (Kissinger) withdrew as co-chairman of the commission to investigate the 9/11 terrorist attacks after refusing to make his client list public, he bitterly asserted his consulting business represented no foreign companies or governments that would constitute a conflict of interest with his duties on the commission.

Other examples could be cited but in this writer’s opinion, the association Dr. K is most afraid might be made public is with the little known company Acxiom.

Hardly a household name (we will try to change that), Acxiom appears to have been selected the lead company to provide software and pull together the network to furnish the information to DARPA’s “Information Awareness Office” (IAO) where John Poindexter of Iran-Contra infamy will prepare individual dossiers on every American citizen and the millions of aliens (legal and illegal) in the country.

....

However, someone else obviously has an investment to protect as well. Jackson Stephens, the powerful Arkansas billionaire, has two men placed on the Board of Directors. One, General Wesley K. Clark of the Stephens Group is the former Supreme Commander of NATO and with Stephens backing appears to be gearing up for a run for the Democrat presidential nomination in 2004. The second Stephens man on the board is Stephen M. Patterson, a former director of the Stephens/Lippo Worthen Bank and its successor Bank of America-Arkansas.

Prior to linking with the Stephens interests, Acxiom had operated for over thirty years under several different names. It changed from a bus manufacturer to a data collection company over the span of those years. Acxiom claims to have personal data on over 190 million Americans which it has been selling to marketing and credit rating organizations.

Yes Henry, it is understandable why you ducked and ran when it looked like you might have to disclose your relationship with Acxiom/Alltel/Systematics and Jackson Stephens.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg108164.html

Note: I chopped this up for brevity.

[ozone_man]

27. Clark's involvement with Acxiom is scary.

As are his relations with HK. Also, both are on Board of National Endowment for "Democracy". Guilt by association to HK?

I was surprised to learn that Kissinger was the majority stock holder in Indonesian gold minining company Freeport McMahon (sp?), which is guilty of great human rights attrocities, not to mention environmental and political attrocities. This guy is a true war criminal, not even mentioning his earlier work like arranging for murder of Allende, etc..

[DrFunkenstein]

28. I Don't Know About Guilt By Association

But I would certainly like to know the extent of their "close" relationship. And honestly, I'm just finding out about the Acxiom thing. I avoided it - probably because it looked hard to pronounce.

One interesting turn - Acxiom provided the how-to for "Total Information Awareness," which was John Poindexter.

So not only did Clark vote for two Presidents - Nixon and Reagan - that investigated John Kerry, he actually had a client that Kerry helped nail to the wall during Iran-Contra.

[Zan_of_Texas]

30. Freeport

Freeport McMoran is based in the U.S. World's largest gold mining company. Does truly awful stuff in Indonesia, including torturing and killing native people who protest losing their livelihood, clean water, etc. because of the mining practices.

Got the dubious distinction of being chosen one of the ten worst corporations (1996) by Multinational Monitor. (Hey, the competition is stiff too!) http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/mm1296.04.html#corp6

It is alleged that Freeport security personnel "engaged in acts of intimidation, extracted forced confessions, shot three civilians, disappeared five Dani villagers and arrested and tortured 13 people."


Also see: http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/mm0496.05.html

The Mining Menace of Freeport-McMoRan, by Pratap Chatterjee

[carpetbagger]

29. Al-Jazeera? Are we at the bottom of the barrel yet?

We think we have it bad in the states with our ultranationalist press-distortion machine.

Faux has nothing on these guy's weirdness.

[DrFunkenstein]

32. That Was What Opened The Discussion, But...

It turns out that Clark and Kissinger both worked for the same Acxiom that provided the skeleton for the Total Information Awareness program.

Personally, I don't care who told it. I want to know if it is true or not.

[TLM]

35. Yeah I've only been saying this for the last f-ing month...

Clark worked as a lobbyist for Kissinger.


Also a senior adviser at CSIS - (Center for Strategic and International Studies, 1800 K Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20006 Fax [phone] ]
2000 CSIS budget, $16 million,
CSIS Affiliates: The International Councillors, a group of international business leaders chaired by Henry Kissinger, meets semiannually to discuss the implications of the changing economic and strategic environment. The Advisory Board is composed of both public- and private-sector policymakers, including several members of Congress. Zbigniew Brzezinski and Carla Hills cochair the board. The Washington Roundtable meets three to four times a year with members of Congress, executive branch officials, and other Washington experts to discuss pressing policy issues of the day. The Houston and Dallas Roundtables bring together local business leaders and CSIS experts to discuss current international political and economic trends.

[wyldwolf]

36. They're only relationship is...

..they have both served on the board of CSIS - a non-partisan organization.

Clark, however, is a non-paid advisor.

http://csis.org/about/index.htm#5

[TLM]

37. WRONG.... Kissinger is the chairman of CSIS... Clarked worked for him.

It is a K St Lobbyist firm that does the same kind of war profiteering crap that Cheney did with Halliburton.

Maybe Clark can tap Kissinger as his VP pick... and they can run as the accused war criminal ticket.

Do you even know what CSIS does? They're focus is on helping world leaders find solutions in areas of globalization, intelligence, cyber security and homeland defense. Hrm, hell of a coincidence, don't you think?



Also a senior adviser at CSIS - (Center for Strategic and International Studies, 1800 K Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20006 Fax [phone] ]

2000 CSIS budget, $16 million,

CSIS Affiliates: The International Councillors, a group of international business leaders chaired by Henry Kissinger, meets semiannually to discuss the implications of the changing economic and strategic environment. The Advisory Board is composed of both public- and private-sector policymakers, including several members of Congress. Zbigniew Brzezinski and Carla Hills cochair the board. The Washington Roundtable meets three to four times a year with members of Congress, executive branch officials, and other Washington experts to discuss pressing policy issues of the day. The Houston and Dallas Roundtables bring together local business leaders and CSIS experts to discuss current international political and economic trends.

[eileen_d]

40. I read the plain text AND the bold excerpt

and still don't see how the "Clark Worked For Kissinger" conclusion is justified. CSIS is an organization. Apparently Henry Kissinger is the chair, Clark is a senior advisor. Therefore they are both "working" for CSIS -- an organization I know nothing about, and will not defend. But I'd like to ask you to quit twisting facts.

Why don't y'all just Photoshop Clark & Kissinger feeling each other up on lovers lane and get it over with?

[eileen_d]

42. Hang on a second - you may just be flat-out lying.

Your paragraph states that Kissinger is the chair of AN AFFILIATE of CSIS, "The International Councillors". What does AFFILIATE mean exactly?

Could it be... guilt by association? My Sources Say Yes!

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

43. WRONG.... SAM NUNN is the chairman of CSIS... A Democrat!

What a gross stretching of the truth - a hallmark of Clark detractors.

A chairman is not a boss. Sam Nunn (a democrat)is the chairman of CSIS, NOT Henry Kissinger. In fact, Kissinger is not even a member of the Executive Committee of CSIS. He is in charge of no one.

Nope! He ain't Clark's boss.

Lousy try, bud!

Read for yourself...

http://csis.org/about/index.htm#5

[eileen_d]

46. Thanks for getting the facts straight

I'm still looking forward to the Photoshopped image of Clark and Kissinger making out. ;)

[wyldwolf]

47. Why hasn't a certain someone showed his face in this thread ?

Since he was exposed?

TLM?

[Code_Name_D]

48. Ge, and to think hearing Clark speak during the debate...

Almost changed my mind about him. I was almost thinking he might actualy pull this off. But wyldwolf, you set me strate. Their is nothing like your dubeuse doges and personl attacks to remind me what Clark is. A shill for the DLC, still horing for the GOP.

Clark's greatist liability, is his own suporters.

[wyldwolf]

49. But, of course, the intentional lie doesn't bother you...

:eyes:

...and that doesn't surprise me about a few certain Dean supporters.

[Code_Name_D]

50. Your arguing semantics

Is not impresing me. Its been shown to my satisfaction that Clark lobvied for Kissnger. And the best you can do is jump on the word, "Asoseates" as a lie.

Their is a rat here all right. But it ain't LTM.

[eileen_d]

51. Well, prove it to my satisfaction

You said "Clark lobbied for Kissinger" - prove it.

[wyldwolf]

53. I also proved, by the CSIS website, that Kissinger is NOT the chairman...

..and Sam Nunn is.

I also proved Kissinger is not even on the executive committee.

No semantics there.

Whether intentionally a lie or not, TLM's claims were false.