Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush is NOT Hitler

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:40 PM
Original message
Bush is NOT Hitler
NOTE: I am "stealing" this quote from some DUer, but have lost the reference as to who that was. My apologies. I would include your monniker if I had it or could remember it. Please feel free to post this thread and claim credit for it. It's terrific. I would suggest everyone e-mail this to everyone they know...

True, he does have
the same right-wing bent
the same philosophy toward supporting business
the same comfort with letting business supporters create legislation
the same zeal for throwing government contracts to key supporters and the party members
the same insistence on absolute loyalty
the same comfort with overturning elections
the same intolerance of dissent
the same hatred of liberals
the same hatred of atheists
the same drive for absolute secrecy
the same propaganda techniques
the same need to isolate himself from people who might object to his policies
the same lack of respect for the sovereignty of foreign nations
the same lust for war
the same lack of fiscal discipline
the same lack of respect for democratic institutions
the same eagerness to kill undesireables
and the same penchant for lying,
but after that the analogy pretty much breaks down....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bush is not an evil genius.
Look at Hitler's ability to give great speeches and fire up crowds versus Bush's fragmented English, for instance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yea
he is more like the idiot version of hitler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. thats true.
i once heard him say ''suicider'' on tv. hitler was a genius. this monkey we got is a fucking idiot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. yes.
the bush admin. is like a hitler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Mini-Adolph?
I'd say Arnie would make a better mini-Adolph, but there really is nothing mini about him. OK, maybe that but not anything else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. He may not be an evil genius, but he sure can hire them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. But if he were to speak in his native German...
All bets would be off!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hitler-LITE? :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hitler was unique evil
Bush is the worst president in American history, and a danger to this nation and the world. But, having said that, Hitler was unique. Read the book, "Explaining Hitler." Great stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hitler was wounded in combat.
Edited on Thu Oct-09-03 05:47 PM by neuvocat
Bush never served in the armed forces.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wwagsthedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. And all this time I thought he (Bush) was a wartime deserter
Edited on Thu Oct-09-03 05:56 PM by Wwagsthedog
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. NO, unfortunately Bush did serve.
bastard just went AWOL is all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bush is more like a Hitler wanna-be
Hitler was evil incarnate, and very intelligent despite his sinister ways.

Bush is just an incompetent idiot who wishes he was a dictator.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. There is something odd about Hitler though
He doesn't really manifest any of his anti-semitic tendencies until after WWI. It was in fact a Jewish officer who recommended him for the Iron Cross. From what his fellows mentioned of him in their journals and such, he wasn't really an inspiring fellow, and didn't seem to be really all that caring about if someone was a Jew or not. Why Stalin ended up being the stone-cold SOB that he became is really easy, but I've never heard a good explanation as to why Hitler ended up being so damn evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Because he tapped into an acceptable scapegoat
that people would believe. Eastern Europeans have always been suspicious of Jews or anyone who had a different culture from them like Gypsies and Gays for instance. Mistrust of Jews goes back to medieval times when Christians were forbidden to be bankers or money lenders. Since Jews were forbidden to practice many occupations that Christians could, they naturally filled in the niche of becoming bankers. This added to the hatred already fomented in the churches of Jews as Christ killers.

Gays actually made up a sizable part of Hitler's brown shirts in the early days until he started viewing them as a liability, then he purged the ranks on trumped up charges, therefore accepting a more popular homophobic agenda from then on. Hitler knew he needed someone to blame for his purges and other atrocities. Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals were handy scapegoats. He also wanted their property and money.

He was prejudiced though. He avoided conscription into the Austrian Army, not because he didn't want to be a soldier, but because he didn't want to serve with Poles and Slavs, which made up a part of the Austrian Army. When he was finally tracked down, he failed the physical. When WWI broke out, he was living in Munich then and he petitioned the King of Bavaria to allow him into the Bavarian army. The King complied and Hitler became a decorated soldier because of the war.

The reason the Bavarian army was acceptable to Hitler was because there were no Poles, Slavs or others of non-German heritage allowed in its ranks. The Bavarians, however, didn't like him. They shunned his company and referred to him as a white crow in the midst of black ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. The allies made Hitler really.
Edited on Thu Oct-09-03 06:49 PM by DarkPhenyx
If you look at the interveneing years between WW1 and WW2 you can really see how Hitler used the humiliation forced upon Germany by the allies to rally the people around him and rise to power. Had we accepted teh "Christmas Truce" of 1907 (date?) and built a more equitable peace we wouldn't have had WW2. Nor, and here's the funpart, would he have had Sept 11. Yes kiddies, that's right. The humiliation of the remnants of the Ottoman Empire, and the disolusion thereof, is one of the greatest, if not The, cause of the trouble in the Mideast.

Revisionist history MY ASS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
46. Bush quote
"Ya know, things would be alot better if i was a dictator"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. To be fair...
Hitler did not hate atheists. The majority of top ranking Nazis were atheists or atleast agnostics. His seething hatred of the Catholic church and quotes like "Christianity and Nazism are not compatible" show that, if anything, he hated Christianity. He may have made pro-Christian speeches in public, but that was only to appease the 90+% of the German people who were practicing Christians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Source?
Was he not raised Catholic? Was he not an alter boy? He never renounced his religion.
I do not remember any hatred towards any Christian religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
49. Actually, one of the Nazi songs
mentioned and was against the Pope and Jews. Some of the history you get today concerning the Pope and nazi Germany is revisionist as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. course he's not........he's Gray Davis
without the charisma

or brains
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. You forgot the most important thing!
Hitler was ELECTED.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Bingo!
Beat me to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Wrong.
Hitler didn't get more votes than President Von Hindenberg, when he ran against him for President. He then prevailed on the President though through various subterfuges too detailed to mention here to get appointed Chancellor. After that it was a simple matter of frightening the population into voting for him after the President died. I think by 1934 there were no elections anymore, but I am not sure about that date and don't have time right now to look it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hitler was *elected*, at least! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. Hitler was not elected
He was appointed by an ailing old President. Then shortly after Hitler had his Reichstag fire crisis (his 9/11) and promptly started revoking rights/modifying laws in the name of national security.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Re the propaganda techniques.


Dr. Norman Livergood former head of the Artificial Intelligence Dept. at the US Army War College agrees.

The puppet Bush regime is using new, aggressive forms of brainwashing to change the very way Americans think and feel.

This is the psychological dimension of the "High Cabal's" general onslaught against American workers, just as the "war on terrorism" is the military dimension and corporate crime and tax cuts for the rich comprise the economic dimension.

We are living under the beginning stages of a military dictatorship in precisely the same way that 1930s Germans suffered under the Nazi regime.

As in the case of Nazi Germany, state-sponsored propaganda (brainwashing) is a vital part of the Bush regime's strategy.


Brainwashing America
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. he doesn't have the little mustache
now Pickles on the other hand...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. No, but ARNOLD is.
Edited on Thu Oct-09-03 06:55 PM by Cronus
Arnold does have
the same right-wing bent
the same philosophy toward supporting business
the same comfort with letting business supporters create legislation
the same zeal for throwing government contracts to key supporters and the party members
the same insistence on absolute loyalty
the same comfort with overturning elections
the same intolerance of dissent
the same hatred of liberals
the same hatred of atheists
the same drive for absolute secrecy
the same propaganda techniques
the same need to isolate himself from people who might object to his policies
the same lack of respect for the sovereignty of foreign nations
the same lust for war
the same lack of fiscal discipline
the same lack of respect for democratic institutions
the same eagerness to kill undesireables
the same penchant for lying
AND
he's an immigrant from Austria
he's rising to power on a populist theme
he's attacking "undesireables"
he's an inspiring orator
he's backed by corporatist fascists
he has a lust for power
his father was a member of the nazi party
he had nazis at his wedding
he supports nazis
he admires Hitler and wants to be like him, with all the people agreeing with him no matter what he says (to paraphrase a quote of his).

http://cronus.com/fascism - we report, you decide.

Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets!>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthman dave Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. and Rumsfeld is NOT Emperor Palpatine
"And now, young skywalker, witness the power of this fully operational military-industrial complex ..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Hi earthman dave!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthman dave Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Nice to be here
Thanks. This place rocks! No more bashing-head-against-brick-wall style 'debate' on undernet #political for me! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Episode 2 scared the shit out of me
I thought they were great movies. The problem is, they weren't really sci-fi movies as much as they were political movies, satire maybe...
Or am I reading too much into them?

But I really think a lot of people really missed the plot details of the two most recent Star Wars movies.

By the time Episode 2 came out, the political atmosphere was adequate enough for me to draw a ton of parallels. TOO MANY parallels. Like I said, it scared the shit out of me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. Nah, that'd be Lieberman!
Ever check out what a striking resemblence there is between Palpatine and lieberman?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well, I'll be damned if I can't remember who said this
But I remember reading this, and I would like to know who said this in order to give them my congratulations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthman dave Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. Bush is a puppet, but Fascism is in the air...
Bush seems to me more like a puppet, the people around him are nasty nasty fuckers with no qualms about trampling people's rights but Bush himself is just some gimp, a figurehead, the people who give him his orders, who decide the policies are the real problem. I mean, do you think they ever let monkey boy decide policy? His job is to smile and wave for the camera. Now, your actual Hitler-analogue would be someone like Perle the wild-eyed ideas man, or Rumsfeld the ruthless killer, not good old dumb-as-shit Georgie boy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You need to be introduced to the PNAC,
the power behind the Bush regime. http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

Welcome to DU by the way.

I copied this from someone elses post, Eloriel I think, but I forgot to add her name.

"Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September 2000. A Report of the Project for the New American Century.
<snip>The United States cannot simply declare a strategic pause while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts. Nor can it choose to pursue a transformation strategy that would decouple American and allied interests. A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies.
Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval. Likewise, systems entering production today - the F-22 fighter, for example - will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation - the Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus, this report advocates a two-stage process of change - transition and transformation - over the coming decades.</snip>

http://truthout.org/docs_02/022203A.htm
Of Gods and Mortals and Empire
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Friday 21 February 2003
<snip>Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin.
PNAC is staffed by men who previously served with groups like Friends of the Democratic Center in Central America, which supported America's bloody gamesmanship in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and with groups like The Committee for the Present Danger, which spent years advocating that a nuclear war with the Soviet Union was "winnable."
PNAC has recently given birth to a new group, The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in order to formulate a plan to "educate" the American populace about the need for war in Iraq. CLI has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to support the Iraqi National Congress and the Iraqi heir presumptive, Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court in 1992 to 22 years in prison for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which he founded in 1977. Chalabi has not set foot in Iraq since 1956, but his Enron-like business credentials apparently make him a good match for the Bush administration's plans.
PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report is the institutionalization of plans and ideologies that have been formulated for decades by the men currently running American government. The PNAC Statement of Principles is signed by Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, as well as by Eliot Abrams, Jeb Bush, Bush's special envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, and many others. William Kristol, famed conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, is also a co-founder of the group. The Weekly Standard is owned by Ruppert Murdoch, who also owns international media giant Fox News
The desire for these freshly empowered PNAC men to extend American hegemony by force of arms across the globe has been there since day one of the Bush administration, and is in no small part a central reason for the Florida electoral battle in 2000. Note that while many have said that Gore and Bush are ideologically identical, Mr. Gore had no ties whatsoever to the fellows at PNAC. George W. Bush had to win that election by any means necessary, and PNAC signatory Jeb Bush was in the perfect position to ensure the rise to prominence of his fellow imperialists. Desire for such action, however, is by no means translatable into workable policy. Americans enjoy their comforts, but don't cotton to the idea of being some sort of Neo-Rome.
On September 11th, the fellows from PNAC saw a door of opportunity open wide before them, and stormed right through it. </snip>
http://truthout.org/docs_03/022803A.shtml
Blood Money
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Thursday 27 February 2003
"In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."
- President Dwight Eisenhower, January 1961.
George W. Bush gave a speech Wednesday night before the Godfather of conservative Washington think tanks, the American Enterprise Institute. In his speech, Bush quantified his coming war with Iraq as part of a larger struggle to bring pro-western governments into power in the Middle East. Couched in hopeful language describing peace and freedom for all, the speech was in fact the closest articulation of the actual plan for Iraq that has yet been heard from the administration.
In a previous truthout article from February 21, the ideological connections between an extremist right-wing Washington think tank and the foreign policy aspirations of the Bush administration were detailed.
The Project for a New American Century, or PNAC, is a group founded in 1997 that has been agitating since its inception for a war with Iraq. PNAC was the driving force behind the drafting and passage of the Iraqi Liberation Act, a bill that painted a veneer of legality over the ultimate designs behind such a conflict. The names of every prominent PNAC member were on a letter delivered to President Clinton in 1998 which castigated him for not implementing the Act by driving troops into Baghdad. <more at link>

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905990,00.html
Could Tony Blair look at the internet now, please?
Why is the British Prime Minister the only person who seems to be unaware of the US hawks' agenda.
Terry Jones
Sunday March 2, 2003
<snip>They don't split hairs at the PNAC. George W. Bush and his advisers' stated aim is to ensure that America and American interests dominate the entire world for the foreseeable future. And what's more they make no bones of the fact that they intend to achieve this without diplomacy - that's old hat. What PNAC intend to do is enforce the Pax Americana through military might.
Does Tony Blair know that? Has Tony Blair read the PNAC Report called "Rebuilding Americas Defenses 2000"? It refers to the new technologies of warfare and goes on: "Potential rivals such as China are anxious to exploit these transformational technologies broadly, while adversaries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea are rushing to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons as a deterrent to American intervention in regions they seek to dominate."
So when George Bush and his colleagues talk about Saddam Hussein posing a "threat" to America - they don't mean he's going to drop bombs on Washington (how on earth could he without committing national suicide?) - what they mean is that he poses a threat to American military dominance in the Middle East.
Does Tony Blair know that's what they mean?
In fact, does Tony Blair know that President Bush's advisers regard Saddam Hussein as merely an excuse for military action in the area? The PNAC Report of 2000 states: "the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."</snip>
No these links don't exactly pertain to this but
I'm so pissed at these assholes right now I thought it would be fun to post a few of my favorite links. It makes me feel better.
http://www.nathanielblumberg.com/neil.htm
http://www.redherring.com/vc/2002/0111/947.html
http://www.awitness.org/news/november_2001/insider_trading_september_11th_long_list.html
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG204A.html
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

Bush Ex Machina

By MAUREEN DOWD


ASHINGTON — George W. Bush has often talked wickedly about his days as the black sheep of a blue-blooded, mahogany-paneled family. But the younger rebellion pales before the adult revolt, now sparking epochal changes.

The president is about to upend the internationalist order nurtured by his father and grandfather, replacing the Bush code of noblesse oblige with one of force majeure.

Bush 41, a doting dad, would never disagree with his son in public, but in a speech at Tufts last week, he defended his decision to leave Saddam Hussein in power after Desert Storm.

"If we had tried to go in there and created more instability in Iraq, I think it would have been very bad for the neighborhood," he told the crowd of 4,800. (Was he referring to Baghdad or Kennebunkport?)

He conceded that getting a coalition together is harder now, because the evidence about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction is "a little fuzzier" than was his evident invasion of Kuwait. But 41 still thinks coalitions work: "The more pressure there is, the more chance this matter will be resolved in a peaceful manner." (Maybe he should enter the Democratic primary.)

At the very same moment the father was pushing peace, the son was treating the war as a fait accompli. At the American Enterprise Institute, he finally coughed up the real reason for war: trickle-down democracy.

Unable to handcuff Osama and Saddam, he soft-pedaled his previous cry for a war of retribution for 9/11. Now he was being more forthright, calling for a war of re-engineering.

"A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region," he said, adding: "Success in Iraq could also begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace, and set in motion progress towards a truly democratic Palestinian state."

Conservatives began drawing up steroid-fueled plans to reorder the world a decade ago, imperial blueprints fantastical enough to make "Star Wars" look achievable.

In 1992, Dick Cheney, the defense secretary for Bush 41, and his aides, Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby, drafted a document asserting that America should prepare to cast off formal alliances and throw its military weight around to prevent the rise of any "potential future global competitor" and to preclude the spread of nuclear weapons.

The solipsistic grandiosity of the plan was offputting to 41, who loved nothing better than chatting up the other members of the global club. To Poppy and Colin Powell, this looked like voodoo foreign policy, and they splashed cold water on it.

In 1996, Richard Perle, now a Pentagon adviser, and Douglas Feith, now a Rumsfeld aide, helped write a report about how Israel could transcend the problems with the Palestinians by changing the "balance of power" in the Middle East, and by replacing Saddam.

The hawks saw their big chance after 9/11, but they feared that it would be hard to sell a eschatological scheme to stomp out Islamic terrorism by recreating the Arab world. So they found Saddam guilty of a crime he could commit later: helping Osama unleash hell on us.

Mr. Bush is his father's son in his "trust us, we know best" attitude.

After obscuring the real reasons for war, the Bushies are now obscuring the Pentagon's assessments of the cost of war ($60 billion to $200 billion?), the size of the occupation force (100,000 to 400,000?) and the length of time American troops will stay in Iraq (2 to 10 years?).

A Delphic Mr. Wolfowitz tried to blow off House Democrats who pressed him on these issues: "We will stay as long as necessary and leave as soon as possible."

Rahm Emanuel, a congressman from Chicago, chided Mr. Wolfowitz, saying, "In the very week that we negotiated with Turkey, the administration also told the governors there wasn't any more money for education and health care."

The president's humongously expensive tax cuts leave less for all programs except the military.

Asked if we should give up the tax cut to underwrite the war, the president demurred, replying, "Americans are paying the bill."

Nobody knows if the Bush team's hubristic vision for redrawing the Middle East map will end up tamping down terrorism or inflaming it.

Either way, deus ex machina doesn't come cheap.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/cm021017/debtext/21017-27.htm
(snip)
17 Oct 2002 : Column 542
there was stability for almost 10 years. Iraq had been contained by the bombing programme, which I fully supported. The inspectors left because they were fed up; they believed that they were close to finding significant weapons, but left because they believed that there was going to be bombing of the sites that they could not inspect. There might have been some justification for action then, but there is no justification now.
The plans from PNAC—the project for a new American century—make alarming reading. They were drawn up not last year, but in 2000. One of them speaks of the American armed forces as

"the cavalry on the new American frontier."
The blueprint supports a document written by Wolfowitz and Cheney—Pearl and Rumsfeld are also involved—that says that the US must
"discourage advanced industrial nations from challenging our leadership or even aspiring to a larger regional or global role."
They talk of regime change not only in Iraq but in Syria and Iran. However, their greatest target is China, which they see as the next state that might challenge them as a new world power.
In an extraordinary speech, the hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Wilkinson) suggested that we could become a vassal state of America by abandoning a dearly cherished policy of this country, and of almost all Council of Europe countries—our opposition to capital punishment. Suddenly, we should accept that.
The Americans have said that they regard the United Kingdom as

"the most effective and efficient means of exercising American global leadership."
That was and is Bush's policy. He has used the dreadful events of 11 September to accelerate that policy. Most people have forgotten the events that occurred before
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. bush* not a Hitler!
Hitler was an author whose works are still in international publication and are required reading at any respectable university.

bush* doesn't read or write.



Hitler's dogs liked him.

Laura has to tie a porkchop around georgie*s neck to get his dogs to play with him (incidentally, the REAL story behind the choking pretzel incident).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. my ears are tingling!
wow, most of the time my posts seem to be klunkers, especially the ones i put the most thought into.

in fact, you got way more responses than i got when i first posted it!

thanks, tom_paine, and everybody on this thread, it's nice to be appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Thank you, unblock, for this terrific little prose piece!
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 08:19 AM by tom_paine
:toast: :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. And Eva Braun was a lot hotter than Pickles
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well, he can't make the trains run on time...
THAT would require listening to someone who knows what they're doing. And with this sad crew, if you know what you're doing, you're immediately suspect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
40. Did Bush ever make his Niece crap on his chest?
???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. probably
that would explain the drug problems wouldnt it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
41. Not Hitler for obvious reasons, but also..
Bush would be a puppet for the corporations and the very rich. The Repukes want a kind of fascist corporatism. They go against what America is all about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
43. Bush may not be Hitler
but his family sure was instrumental in getting der furher the banking support he needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
44. You're right
He's Mussalini. Obvious spelling error.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
45. "Bush is not a Nazi - so Stop Saying That.."
See the flash movie HERE http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

by yours truely - it's been downloaded by over a half a million people -- the Germans LOVE it :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Might as Well Put Them All in One Place
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC