This debate made Gephardt a front runner

[knowledgeispower]

Seriously, he was extremely impressive. I was expecting him to come across as the party dinosaur playing politics as usual. But he managed to come across as both a guy who has the experience and know-how to ge things done, but is NOT the career politician type.

I particularly thought his defense of the 1993 Clinton economic plan was great. He really did a good job of saying "look, the democrats have stood up for what we thought was right and we got killed for it" (by losing the Congress) "but we would do it all over again anyway because IT WAS THE RIGHT THING."

I also thought Gephardt did the best job of explaining exactly WHY Bush's foreign policy is so bad. Everybody attacked it, but Gephardt told us why we should care.

A few other thoughts:
1. I have been leaning towards Dean, but he did a horrible job in this debate, in my opinion. He seemed uncomfortable and stiff most of the time, and during the questions and answers session it seemed as if he did not even want to talk. When he did speak it seemed like he just couldn't quite articulate what he wanted to get across. Great stump speaker, but is real weak at improvisation.
2. Kerry came across as an arrogant bastard. I jotted down a number of adjectives for him throughout the speech. A sample of that list follows: "snooty", "elitist", "conceited", and so forth. His attitude seemed to say that the other candidates did not even deserve to be on the stage with him.
3. Moseley-Braun is my favorite person of the 9 candidates.

And here is an arbitrary ranking of the candidates performance (based on how they did debating, not whether I liked what they said):
1. Gephardt: see above. Was far and away the best debater.
2. Moseley-Braun: Great job of being compassionate but not weak.
3. Edwards: Beat the "I came from a poor background" horse to death, but did a great job of explaining why the middle class should vote democrat.
4. Lieberman: Seemed much more confident and much less wishy-washy than in previous debates. Side note: does he have a vendetta against Clark?
5. Clark: Got slammed on the Iraq war thing, and in my opinion he really didn't explain the discrepancy in a satisfactory manner. Clearly painted as a closet Republican, but when he wasn't on the defensive for that he spoke well.
6. Kucinich: Love what the man has to say, but he just doesn't have finesse.
7. Kerry: Like I said above, he came across as a real asshole. Before this debate I didn't like the candidate, now I don't like the man. Its a real shame too because he has a lot of good ideas.

Not ranked: Sharpton - got in some good lines, but that seemed to be all he was there for (as usual)

Any thoughts?

[knowledgeispower]

1. Oops, forgot Dean

but I rank him 8th. This was really a poor performance from him.

[poskonig]

2. Good points; I thought Geppy did well too.

Gephardt made very few mistakes, had a lot of passion, and really got the issue details out there. He answered the tax question weirdly, but overall Gephardt did an excellent job.

I also agree that with the entrance of Clark in the race, Gephardt is now the front runner. If he wins Iowa, I see Gephardt cleaning up on February 3rd and 7th in states like Missouri, Oklahoma, and Michigan, in addition ranking high in South Carolina, New Mexico, and Arizona.

[knowledgeispower]

6. How do you see Clark's entry helping Gep?

Not saying I disagree, just wondering what the rational is.

[poskonig]

9. Clark gives Gephardt Iowa.

Clark will not win Iowa, but he will hurt Dean enough to tip things to Gephardt. While Gephardt trails in the money race, this gives him at least 50 million dollars of free airtime. Given this, I don't see how Gephardt subsequently loses Missouri, Oklahoma, or Michigan.

[knowledgeispower]

7. How do you see Clark's entry helping Gep?

Not saying I disagree, just wondering what the rational is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. There are alot of old folks in Iowa

Gep is going to take the Medicare issue and hit Dean over the head with it like a hammer...

Gep's tactics remind me of Clinton's tactics in 92 against Tsongas.... Hit your opponent over the head and paint him as a balanced budget tightwad while portraying yourself as the working class hero....

Before Clinton was the reputed DLC poster boy he was the rural populist from Arkansas....

[CMT]

19. I felt Gep did well too

but don't think this debate establishes him as a front runner. You are correct he needs to win Iowa--if he doesn't he is out. I think there is probably a 60/40 chance he will win Iowa--if he doesn't it probably will be Dean.

While I believe Gep will win Missouri, I'm not so sure about some ot the other states. I think Edwards is well positioned in Oklahoma and he and Clark in South Carolina. I think that Dean may very well win New Mexico and Arizona--but becuz of union support Gep should be competitive in Michigan--unless the UAW endorses Dean, which is a possiblity.

[Kanola]

39. Are you saying if Gep wins?

We will lose the election. Simple as that. He is an insider politico. Bush will be easily re-elected.

[dolstein]

3. If Gephardt uses the "Bush is a miserable failure" line one more time

I'll bitch slap him back to St. Louis.

Please Dick, for the love of God, get yourself a new applause line. Groan.

[knowledgeispower]

10. But the point is VITAL

The American people need to understand this is not a matter of democrat versus republican. This is a matter of getting rid of an AWFUL president. Independents and moderate republicans will jump aboard if Dems get this message across well.

[dolstein]

17. It sounded canned the first time he said it

the expiration date has long since passed.

[JVS]

23. For you it is old. I don't have cable and I've never heard it.

I've read it here but never seen him deliver it.
A lot of people are not paying attention yet and if you expect presidential candidates to not repeat themselves you are being naive. They are supposed to go from place to place and say the same thing because not everyone gets a memo the first time.

[StlMo]

32. Every candidate should say it - it is the damning truth.

Bush is miserable and he certainly is a failure.
The whole world is suffering from Bush's horrific attempts to play king.

[madrchsod]

4. if gephart got the nod

i`d move as far away from this country as i could. sad to say but gephart has no chance at all to beat bush. he`s caved in to many times and that will come back to haunt him...

[knowledgeispower]

12. One word: statesman-like

Maybe he was just on his game tonight, but he seemed HIGHLY electable to me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I Don't Think Enough People Watched The Debate

to change the dynamic of the race....

I don't think Clark is a closet Republican.... Maybe you mean a closet Democrat who's just coming out....

I thought he defended his position with passion...


He said he wanted the administration to do well... I am a Republican hater but I would say >70% of Americans want any administration to do well.... It is only the fringes who want to see an administration fail....

After all, we are all in the same boat....

[dolstein]

8. Lieberman doesn't have a vendetta against Clark

He simply sees Clark as his main competitive when it comes to the votes of moderates. He can't really go after him on the issues because they probably agree on most things. So instead he's questioning Clark's Democratic credentials. Which of course seems silly when, after all, THEY AGREE ON MOST THINGS.

Personally, I think it's a waste of time for him to attack Clark. But then again, I like Clark. Perhaps other people will respond differently.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Try Not To Be One Of The DUers who dump on Joe....

I met him and Hadassah, and Al and Tipper in Orlando during the 00 campaign.... They are all good people...

But some of his attacks are gratuitous and shrill......

[DemCam]

27. I like him...but not

for President.

He's comfortable...knows what he's doing...but he's too comfortable and he just simply comes off as what he is...a long-time member of Congress who does a good job.

When was the last time that person...in extraordinary times...won an election from a majority president...i.e. both houses of Congress?

When, folks?

[DemCam]

28. Meant this to be about Gep...not Lieberman...er..........

[NashVegas]

13. Gep Is a Great Debater

Which is what I'd hope for, from a House leader.

[Bombtrack]

14. Actually HE lost congress

gephardt was tonight and has been an aweful, tired, drone.

And Edwards didn't beat anything to death, he was asked directly and answered directly and flatteringly about his differences with the silver-spoon fed candidates and why it matters

[kentuck]

16. Here's my read:

I thought Gephardt and Edwards did well. I thought Kucinich did very well also. I too, thought it was Dean's weakest debate. I thought the General let them get under his skin a little and his anger was starting to show. I thought Sharpton did well - especially in response to the tribal question. I thought Kerry got in the best line of the night but he looked a little programmed. CMB did well but she could have been a little more aggressive - at least as aggressive as Judy Woodruff who I thought did miserable by interrupting the candidates just when they were making their point. She did that several times. Lieberman was very aggressive tonight and probably did his best of any debate thus far.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. I mostly liked Gephardt, BUT...

he totally flubbed that business woman's question about taxes. She appeared to be leaning toward the idea "Democrats = taxes," and he did nothing to answer her concerns. Kerry did slightly better, but neither of them said what needed to be said (and what I believe Kucinich would have said, if given the chance), namely that we need to lower the tax burden on small business and raise it on large corporations. It wouldn't have hurt to point out that most of the "burdensome" taxes, such as the business license, are local, not national.

(I'm self-employed myself, so I know what I'm talking about.)

[CWebster]

20. Gephardt

impressed me the first time he worked up a head of steam but now he sounds like a windbag harking back to the glory days.

[Speck Tater]

21. Disclaimer: I'm a Dean supporter, but...

I think Edwards did the best job tonight. Gephardt did an excellent job as well. I think Dean held his own, Sharpton was clever and entertaining, as always, while Kerry seemed more relaxed and seemed to connect better than he has in past debates.

To me the only clear loser was Clark who just kind of faded into a kind of bland non-entity status. He didn't stand out in any way and is beginning to look less like a major player and more like just one of the gang.

[JasonBerry]

22. The Thing About Gep

You can't just listen to what he SAYS....you have to look closely what he does - and HAS done. Since first running for president in 1988 (as a pro-life Democrat) he has flip flopped on so many issues I can't count them all. Everytime he talks about the war on Iraq all I can picture is the photo of Dick Gephardt standing there with Bush in the rose garden. No thanks, Dick. I thought Edwards did really well tonight.

EDIT: correct spelling

[StlMo]

26. Gephardt has improved over the decades.

He is not the only candidate to change his mind on abortion.
If people didn't progress over their lifetimes, we would be without many great leaders.

As for the Rose Garden press conference:
It was much better to compromise on a resolution that gave Bush only symbolic cover than to allow the Neo-Con agenda (of invading the entire Middle East) to happen.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. Gephardt is the longest standing pro-labor Democrat of my lifetime

I have nothing but respect for the man and he will likely get my vote.

[StlMo]

25. Gephardt did great. Fiery Progressive Populism will destroy Bush!

:dem:

Despite Judy's (and other CNN Neo-Con puppets') right wing talking points, Gephardt kicked ass.

:dem:

[DemCam]

29. Wish it would...but won't.

Not that fiery...competent...friendly...familier...but not enough to unseat the Imperor.

[StlMo]

34. We shall see.

I believe people need to see that passion in order to cast aside the comforting lies of the Bushies.

[Cocoa]

30. his message on the Clinton success is excellent

He's been saying this all along, it's a question of whether he can get it across to everyone like he just got it across to you. I guess it comes down to how much money he can raise for TV ads.

He says "we know how to do this, we did it before." Excellent.

I don't know if he mentioned it tonight, but he sometimes reminds us how Dick Armey predicted that that budget was going to destroy the economy. Very powerful demonstration of how wrong the republicans can be.

[quinnox]

31. Gephardt already was a frontrunner

He has been for awhile. I have always predicted it will come down to Gephardt and one other candidate, yet to be determined.

[Capn Sunshine]

33. If only he didn't have that baggage

of being a complete asswipe in the 2000 and 2002 elections. Where was the fiery anti- Bush rhetoric when it didn't benefit him personally?

He and Daschle let the whole party down; they were the leaders and were MIA in the 2002 elections. Daschle realizes this and is not one of the gang of ten; Gephardt seems to want to find this out the hard way.

[StlMo]

35. Just because the media didn't show it to you, doesn't mean it wasn't there

Just because the media didn't show it to you, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

DU Flashback:

October 2002

10 15 2002

WASHINGTON (StlMo) - Today Minority Leader Richard Gephardt attacked Bush for his “abdication of leadership” on the economy. Gephardt pointed out the Bushies are “playing politics with the economy and denying the disastrous consequences of their actions.” Gephardt called for a reversal of economic policy away from tax cuts for the rich. He proposed tax cuts aimed instead at working families and middle class Americans. Gephardt also called for an increased investment in Education and Health Care. Plans include $25 Billion for new school construction and $75 Billion to provide insurance for those who lost jobs to the Bush recession and to increase the federal contribution to Medicare. The Minority Leader demanded a cut of $100 Billion in corporate welfare. He also argued that the minimum wage must be raised to a level people can actually live on. "The fact is America faces a clear and present danger to the economic life of working families," Gephardt said. "But all this president and the Republican House have offered is an extremist ideology of trickle-down economics and ineffective gimmicks." Gephardt was adamant that laws must be passed to make CEO’s responsible for their crimes. He said that current laws were inadequate to protect pension plans, small investors and workers. Gephardt also pledged to oppose Bush’s effort to make tax cuts to the rich permanent. He refused to hand Republicans a campaign issue by explicitly denouncing the tax giveaway, but gave the clear impression that he will work to repeal Bush’s failed plan. Republican pollsters expressed great concern that voter outrage at the state of the economy will cause a disaster for the GOP.

[Cocoa]

37. thanks for posting that

myths like that usually go unchallenged, thanks for challenging it.

Not just Gephardt, but Daschle too. Even Wellstone got falsely accused of not standing up, when in fact he did.

[AnnitaR]

36. Exact;ly!

Your post is exactly how I feel! Asswipes!

I hated the way they all rolled over and played dead in the 2002 elections. Which is why I can't even consider supporting any of those guys who were in the House & Senate. I like what I hear from Edwards but he was one of those guys too. I just can't get over how they let Bush put the fear in them. I can forgive Clark for what he said much easier than those guys. They were in a position where they could have made a difference in the 2002 election and they didn't even try if you ask me.

[Kanola]

38. I disagree Gep sounds like a insider politician

He does not sound authentic to me. He is too much of an insider. I'm a political junkie and can listen to politicos but when I hear my non politico husband go "yuck, what an opportunist and slimy politician" , I know DU is out of touch.

Remember, Robot won the vote in CA. He was seen as an outsider tapping into the voter's anger. Gep cannot do that. He puts me to sleep.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. Um, At Which Points Did Kerry Come Across As An Elitist Asshole?

Seriously, if you hadn't heard that in the media a thousand times before, what would suggest it?

Was it the part about Veteran's benefits? When he mentioned chairing the Small Businesses Committee? When he made the joke about Limbaugh's drug habit?

My guess is that you want to undermine a rival candidate, but you know that Kerry is stronger on policy. For the record, Kerry never mentioned Gep by name for undermining Biden-Lugar and getting us in this position in the first place.

[quaker bill]

41. I disagree

Gebhardt did ok. But he seriously blew the the black woman's question about running small businesses. Having worked in restaurants and never having health insurance as a benefit there, I saw the opening, so did Kerry, and he jumped on it.

I especially liked Clark's throwing down in our sitting representatives.

"We can't wait until 2005 to end this pre-emptive policy, you have the job right now, do something about it"

Kind of a quit yer bitching and get to work.

[Evanstondem]

42. One Debate Does Not Make Anyone a Frontrunner

I do agree that Gephardt was good tonight, and generally agree with your other assessments, except that I thought that Dean was fine when he spoke. Kerry received a disproportionate number of questions, which just gave everyone except his supporters more reason to dislike the guy.