Moore's new book excerpt?

[paulsbc]

Has anyone read MM's new book? A local radio DJ was talking about a chapter regarding success and how MM was saying people can't be rich and can't get ahead so don't even try. It sounded like typical Repukakin propaganda and misquotes but I don't have the book...

Can anyone comment on this particular chapter and maybe provide a full quote so I can call in and set this straight?

[wyldwolf]

1. Call the DJ and ask him to comment on chapter 1.

:)

I haven't gotten to the chapter you mention - or else I just don't recognize it by the description given.

[LuCifer]

2. Send 'em these links

and send 'em to anyone else you wish!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1056700,00.html ("Answers Please, Mr. Bush")

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Books/extracts/story/0,6761,1055510,00.html (How to talk to your conservative brother-in-law Pt. 1)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Books/extracts/story/0,6761,1057162,00.html (How to talk to your conservative brother-in-law Pt. 2)

I can't wait for my next pay check (yes, I'm one of the few Americans who actually HAS A JOB! Took me goddamn 2 YEARS to finally find one, THANKS BUSH! Asshole.) so I can pick up a copy of DWMC!

[Caution]

3. Yes, he very accurately describes that it is nearly impossible

to become rich. There is a reason they are the top 1 percent. He doesn't say that we shouldn't keep trying, the idea behind the chapter is that we are idiots to accept the tax cuts for the wealthy because the VAST majority of us are not wealthy and never will be wealthy.

However, as we know the media is in general very stupid and also play to their audience so they latch onto: "Michael Moore says that there is no such thing as the American Dream and he wants to take all of your money away and give it to some crack head who has never had a job and never will have a job!"

Never mind that this "crack head" has no education, no opportunity, is probably already in prison due to the inept, misguided, immoral and insane war on drugs and that that person would give his/her left arm if only he/she could get a little help an would absolutely love to live a "normal" life, holding down a steady job with a family.

[paulsbc]

5. then they are misrepresenting the quotes?

because they claim he says "don't try" and "you can't do it", and to "accept that you can't do it".

Which is different than what you list...

Do you have any exact quotes from the book?

[Caution]

9. Those are exact quotes

However what he's saying is that if you try to be Bill Gates you will fail. Which is absolutely true. It's the same as his chapter on terrorism, people are afraid of terrorists killing them when statistically you are more likely to commit suicide than to be killed by a terrorist in America. He presents facts and he's basically saying that you will be a helluva lot happier if you dont try to become a mega-millionaire.

[Terwilliger]

4. I think you refer to Moore's suggestion that most will never be rich

I've heard him talk about it at various appearances, but don't know about the specific chapter.

His argument is that most who pursue the "American dream" of becoming a Ross Perot or Larry Ellison is nothing more than a lot of hope. Most folks will NEVER have that sort of money...they'll never climb the ladder that far...they won't strike it rich.

[DisgustedTX]

6. I've read it cover-to-cover already - that's an exaggeration

The section of the book covering the "American Dream" tries to put a realistic twist on wealth.

He's actually discussing the gung-ho 90's stock bubble, inherited wealth, and other items. By no means is it a "there is no American Dream" tirade - just a realistic take on generally unrealistic expectations that the American worker can succeed in today's society solely on the merits of hard work.

I agreed with him completely. He credits many people at the end of his book in a very humbling way.

His suggestion of "Oprah for President", however, isn't going over with me. :)

[paulsbc]

7. Can you provide any real quotes?

Because you are paraphrasing like the host...

I just ordered the book from Amazon so I can read it myself :)

[Caution]

10. email me and ill provide quotes this weekend

Don't have the book with me but i'd be more than happy to give you some quotes from it when i do.

[paulsbc]

11. thanks

I ordered it so I'll have it soon enough, he just keeps repeating the mantra over and over, and hasn't taken calls just yet, so I'm hoping someone calls in and sets the record straight...

[LeahMira]

8. Haven't read the book, but...

There are excerpts from it that you can link to from Michael Moore's website. One article that was apparently reprinted in the Guardian addresses the Horatio Alger myth and why Americans buy into it so happily. It's a good article. :-)

[paulsbc]

12. Just read extract

from here: http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,6761,1057357,00.html

and then I immediately cancelled my Amazon order.

What a complete load of crap, my respect for MM just dropped so far I don't know if I can believe anything the man says...

Here is the quote I found very wrong:

"Listen, friends, you have to face the truth: you are never going to be rich. The chance of that happening is about one in a million."

This is completely wrong. It is defeatist, and it is statisically wrong. There are 120 million households in this country. If your chances are "one in a million", there would be 120 'rich households. There are over 3 million millionaires in this country today, and the ranks have risen.

I don't know what MM considers "rich", but usually people associate "rich" with people making over some amount near the 1/4 million mark... There are EVEN MORE people making over that 1/4 million mark than his "one in a million" concept.

If this is how he represents 'facts', I question his 'facts' on other areas as well, his credibility just got shot to hell for me, and the radio host appears to be right (and that isn't what I wanted to hear today....)

[michaelwb]

13. flawed argument

Here is the quote I found very wrong:

"Listen, friends, you have to face the truth: you are never going to be rich. The chance of that happening is about one in a million."

This is completely wrong. It is defeatist, and it is statisically wrong. There are 120 million households in this country. If your chances are "one in a million", there would be 120 'rich households. There are over 3 million millionaires in this country today, and the ranks have risen.

You have some serious flaws in your argument.

#1 you are equating households with individuals, and they are two different things. You'd have to compare these 3 million millionaires (a figure I question), with the number of people in the US, not households!. If you did 1 in a million is pretty darn close, if not dead right if you accurately report the both numbers.

#2 and most importantly this only line of reasoning is majorly flawed. It's not how many people are rich, but will become rich. The premise of your argument is like saying I'm currently not of African descent; 1 out of 5 people is of African descent in the US; thus my chance of becoming of African descent is 1 in 5!

[Terwilliger]

14. I think you started the thread with a foregone conclusion in your mind

that's just the sense I get