Let’s build our own city (seriously).

[RoadRunner]

I just returned from the Sustainable Resources 2003 Conference at the University of Colorado with an idea for all of us who are fed up with life in the bush cartel’s America. I’ve noticed that many posts lately have been advocating leaving the country, finding somewhere safer to live out the war that whistle ass has declared on anyone who happens to disagree with him and his cartel of evil.

Instead of abandoning our homeland, our birthright, how about instead we build our own totally self contained and fully sustainable city right here in the good old USA? I’m serious. With the creativity and ingenuity of those who regularly read this board, we can create a sustainable, peaceful, and profitable life for ourselves and set an example for others in the process.

I’m not talking about a “back to the land” commune like we saw in the 1970’s. What I’m referring to is a city modeled after Gaviotas, Columbia, the world’s most sustainable community where everyone is employed, gets free healthcare, receives free education, and fully participates in all community decisions. In Gaviotas, there are no social classes, no guns, no police, no leaders, no crime, no pollution, and plenty of time to enjoy it all. All this despite the pervasiveness of violence in Columbia. (For a full explanation, get Alan Weisman’s book “Gaviotas: A Village to Reinvent the World.”) I’m not talking about a fantasy here; it’s already being done throughout the world. Why not here?

By pooling our resources and perhaps applying for some grants, we can build our own Gaviotas, a city based on the principals of equality, justice, and hope for everyone. Anyone interested?

[LynneSin]

1. I'd love something like in the movie/book "The Beach"

Only of course, until Leonardo DiCaprio goes schizoid....then it started to suck.

[MsFlorida]

2. I know where to find

the engineers and the rest of the people that make things go. Amazingly enough, we were just talking about this a few weeks ago.

[beyurslf]

4. Sounds good to me

What state should we set up in? I vote for a coastal village :)

[RoadRunner]

6. The most sustainable area in the U.S.

is the 4-corners area (northern Arizona and New Mexico, southern Utah and Colorado). Plenty of sunshine, temperate climate, beautiful landscapes and sunsets, inexpensive isolated tracts of land, and a goldmine of sustainable resources (solar, wind, etc.).

[VermontDem2004]

14. Northwest Arizona is the way I would go

I've been to that area over 30 times, I love the Navajo restuarants, I haven't had much better food then a navajo taco. Lots of wide open spaces, beatiful scenary. Some of my favorite places unclude Chinle, Window Rock, and Kayenta.

[Shyriath]

20. Someone's already building one there

While I was on a trip to Arizona, I heard about a place called Arcosanti. (They have a website at http://www.arcosanti.org/ .) It's an attempt to build an "arcology", a city that's supposed to be designed to minimize waste in usage of both space and resources. A few of the ideas of the designer (Paolo Soleri) seem a bit out there, but it would be undeniably cool if it works. And, I gotta admit, the place LOOKS awesome, if the pictures do it any justice at all.

[Kusala]

29. and primo mountain biking trails!

i'm in!

[knowledgeispower]

31. Wrong: no water, power

All of those states (plus Nevada and California) are fighting tooth and nail over water and energy resources, because there simply aren't enough.

I would suggest the Pacific Northwest.

[IrateCitizen]

32. No power? Ever hear of WIND and SOLAR???

If there's a region ripe for the picking on either renewable source, it's the American Southwest.

And if you're worried about capacity, the answer is quite simple. Efficiency measures coupled with public space. Instead of everyone sitting in their homes all evening each evening, people from the community can gather in public areas and therefore, use less electricity.

[RoadRunner]

33. Plenty of water for people,

just not enough for heavy industry. Sustainable energy systems mean you don't purchase power, you make it yourself. The technology is robust and affordable now.

[IrateCitizen]

5. As a practicing civil engineer, I'd definitely sign up!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. Chris I didn't know this. I am a NYS licensed architect

What kind of engineering are you doing?
anyway, Arcosanti was Soleris's big idea for a city in the Arizona desert.

http://www.arcosanti.org/

[IrateCitizen]

24. I'm not licensed yet -- I'm still just an Engineer-in-Training (EIT)

I'm taking my PE exam this coming April.

I currently work for URS in Manhattan. Most of my experience has been in construction management work for the NYCDEP watershed. Right now, I'm involved in a landfill project and have switched over to the design side -- but I often wish I was back on a project site again (so long as I have less than a 45 min drive).

Obviously, things aren't too stressful for me right now (otherwise I wouldn't be spending as much time here). To tell the truth, I'm actually taking classes right now, working toward becoming a teacher, because I'm just so sick of the corporate world and its profit-generation philosophy (and lack of time to really spend with your family).

[IrateCitizen]

3. Where's JanMichael? He's a city planner, after all.

I'd be game for helping to design such a city. Essential would be an extensive mass transit system (preferrably streetcars) along with a setup that encouraged people to get from "A" to "B" by bike, rollerblade or scooter. Equally essential would be significant public spaces and areas for people to garden adjacent to their homes. No skyscrapers, either.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. yep, and modular apartment blocks

If I can I'll post a link to a company that makes modular two bedroom apartments that stack on top of each other. They are supposed to be super efficient and easy to build/install.

A simple lightrail system would be cheap and effective. I vote for NO CARS in city limits too.

[JanMichael]

40. So is Shakeydave!

We've already got a Community Development Department!

I'd LOVE to participate in something like this.

I have to run so I'll comment later.

[VermontDem2004]

7. Their was a city like that in Arizona a long time ago

named Tubac, about 30 miles of where Tucson is now. It was founded by Charles Poston he said the city had "no law but love, no government, no taxes, no public debt, no politics. It was a comunnity in a perfect state of nature." Poston would marry people for free and give them jobs, they also were giving free health care. But a preist found out that the marriages handnt' been blessed by a priest and ruled the marriages null and void. But the place later become a war zone between the Apaches and an expedition of "liberators" lead by Henry Crabb. The city of Tubac later became nothing but rubble, later on Charles Poston became a Territorial Delegate to Congress.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. Arcosanti

http://www.arcosanti.org/

[VermontDem2004]

26. What does Arcosanti have to do with anything I said?

The City I am talking about was destroyed around 1850.

[patdem]

8. Is there someplace on the web where we can find more info?

It sounds delicious. America has many thousands of acres of undeveloped land that could become a self sufficient city. This is VERY interesting. A SIM type program using the above mentioned city could be promoted and sold to the progressive communities to promote the very idea itself?

[IkeWarnedUs]

13. more info

Here is a link to the Sustainable Resources 2003 Conference website:

http://www.sustainableresources.org/sr2003/index.html

[RoadRunner]

19. Some quick reading

is at http://www.dharma-haven.org/five-havens/gaviotas.htm and
http://www.planeta.com/planeta/02/0209gaviotas.html

Gaviotas has no website, but there is an organization called "Friends of Gaviotas" in the U.S. that does have some sort of website.

[FlaGranny]

9. Sounds good, but one question.

How would you keep the neocons from ruining it? If it were safe, provided jobs to everyone, etc., neocons would want to find a way to profit from it. It it legal to discriminate against them? Gee, I sound pessimistic!

[IkeWarnedUs]

11. Did they discuss this?

The population of Gaviotas is only about 200. How large of a community is feasible? At what point does a group become so large that the individuals loose control and power hogs take over?


BTW - I have come to realize the wisdom of our founding fathers in designing this country as the United States and not just as America. In other words, keep power in the hands of the people as much as possible and not in a huge central government.

[RoadRunner]

15. Gaviotas is part of a network

of small intentional communities a few miles apart. Paulo Lugari, the founder of Gaviotas, was at the conference and he told me the reason the population is 200 is that the violence in Columbia has made it temporarily impossible to grow any larger. You are right, though, that there is most likely a size limit if the community is to remain true to its values.

[maxsolomon]

12. it already exists

its called seattle! rimshot!

[dutchdemocrat]

23. Republic of Cascadia

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

That would be a dream.

[woofless]

30. WOOHOO!

I am a resident of Cascadia! Who knew?

[spooky3]

16. Interesting idea. For those who can't go that far...

I have been amazed at how my sanity has benefited from moving from a very conservative city to a relatively liberal one. Instead of feeling that you're "different" or there's "something wrong" with you, you meet many others who share the same views and values that you have. I would encourage everyone who is lucky enough to have the option to change jobs and locations to weigh that factor into their decision making.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. I live near this community, Stelle, Illinois...self sustaining community.

you could move there. :)
http://www.stellecommunity.com/

Here's the first Straw Bale House built in Illinois. http://www.stellecommunity.com/haeme81.pdf

It's the kind of community you're talking about...self sustaining.

I think we should buy an island far far away from the states and build a community there.

[VermontDem2004]

22. An Island like the movie 'Beach'

Endless supply of Marijuana :evilgrin: :smoke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. Fields and fields

of the stuff. We could sell it to Canada! :D We'd be Rich! Rich! Rich I say!

We could live on those "special" brownies....yum!
We could have Marijuana soup, Marijuana chips...like potatoe chips.
We could have a Hemp factory and make our own clothes and misc. items.
We could have Marijuana pasta with Marijuana sauce.
We would never have to worry about getting enough fiber!
The Island could be called..."Marijuanita"

Think of the possibilities!

PLUS, we would all be very very happy! :hippie:

[KamaAina]

36. Did somebody say "island"? As in "Big Island"?

Rural Hawai'i isn't as expensive as you might think. There are already thousands of "back-to-the-land" types who are living "off the grid" in the areas surrounding Hilo, unfavored by tourists and retirees. For whatever it's worth, there is even a Green representative on their County Council.

The sugar economy there (and throughout the islands) has collapsed over the last 20 years or so. On O'ahu, the fields have mutated into bland, SoCal-style suburbs (apparently done by the same architects*). But on the much less developed Big Island, large tracts are available for sale.

The whole island is smaller than Connecticut, so wherever you are, it's easy to get into Hilo for supplies, including books and such, and an airport (you fly up to Honolulu, then connect to "the real world" from there).

A hui hou (same as "au revoir"),
K-A

[Speck Tater]

25. Better yet...

get 100 billion empty plastic milk cartons (with caps) and a few million tons of dirt and build a floating island in the Pacific and start our own country.

What a great way to recycle water-tight plastic containers of all sorts. Just tie them all together and pile the dirt on top, plant crops, and voila!

[Clete]

27. If you do, you'll have to take out the roads leading to it and

airplane runways in it to keep others out. This also has the effect of keeping everyone in. Unfortunately human nature and need will force you to trade with the outside eventually and then the immigrations and emigrations begin. It doesn't really work. Even in the Stone Age, people were trading far and wide and waging war.

I am setting up a futuristic story about such a "country" that is set up in the northwest within our corrupt country which by this time is ruled by a dynasty of Bush emperors. Running the dynamics on this, on paper anyway, has yielded some interesting and unexpected results. In real life it wouldn't work though.

[leftyandproud]

34. There;s only ONE tiny thing standing in the way of this...

human nature.

[libertad]

35. I read somewhere that there is a town in New Mexico that is for sale.

I think it was around $2 million.

[KamaAina]

39. (gulp) The Feds are turning Playas into a terror training center!

http://www.nmt.edu/mainpage/news/2003/23may02.html

Domenici has been encouraging the federal government -- primarily the Homeland Security Department -- to purchase the Hidalgo County town and use it for first responder training and bio-security research. New Mexico Tech has developed a collaborative effort to establish, support and operate a National Emergency Response Training, Research and Development Center (NERTRDC) at Playas.

Figures. Maybe they can figure out how to use copper tailings to kill more brown people. </sarcasm>

[Mari333]

37. I live on 13 acres of forest in Michigan next to the lake

Use my land, build a community. MI is a blue state after all..or we can pool our resources, and buy a LOT of cheap farmland here, its all for sale and theres a thriving gay community about 30 miles north of me.
Just a thought. Im in if anyone organizes it.

[Paragon]

38. Can we build this city on rock 'n' roll?

Starship ROCKS.