DUers are NOT smarter than anybody. So stop saying that.

[Armstead]

Since there may be Wall St. Journal lurkers visiting because of the post that says we on DU think we're smarter than the average person, here's a different view.

Most of us here on DU do not believe we are "smarter" than the "average" person. Nor are we better informed. Our average IQ points are probably in the middle range of the scale. This is just a community of people who range from really smart to really dumb, and all stages in-between....And we recognize that "intelligence" is not a catch-all term. One can be very smart in some ways, and very dumb in otehrs.

However, we do share a belief that the media and politicians have been pulling the wool over the eyes of people for too long. There are other ways of thinking and seeing the world than the shallow view pushed by the corporate media and by most politicians. We believe that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. We don't claim to be rocket scientists. We've just taken the time to look at things critically, and sought out different sources of information.

Our beleifs also vary. We are generally left-of-center, from moderate mainstream to farther out on the spectrum. So we disagree among ourselves often. But we do share a belief in the basic principles of liberalism. And we believe that if more people were given exposure to the truth of the liberal message, they would identify with them.

We are also puzzled by people who have been bamboozled by the right-wing. It's contrary to the self-interest of average people. If you are middle-class, working class or poor, the notion that you should sacrifice so that the upper class can take even more just seems self-defeating.

The more you find out, the more a little light goes on that says "Uh oh. Maybe the war in Iraq wasn't what it was sold to us as." Or "Uh oh. Maybe bankrupting the country so corporate executives can buy another vacation home isn't really the strategy for economic recovery."

And we do NOT automatically assume that all rich people are bad, or don't deserve to be rich. Many liberals are wealthy. But we just believe they should carry their share of the load -- and that the interests of all parts of society should be represented in government.


Bush we have problems with. Not because he is a mediocre guy who succeeded. No, it's because he's a child of privilege who sells himself as an average person. He's someone who should know better, but chooses to promote shallow approaches to problems. He also is not a "self-made man." He is more a front person, for the conservative elite who want to look like they are for the "common man."

We are just looking for ways to bring back a true political balance in this country. One that is not shaped by the corporate chiefs, rigid fundamentalists or opportunistic, amoral politicians. That's all.

[niyad]

1. very well put, and thank you.

[ulysses]

2. True.

We're *right*, but we're not smarter. :)

[Jose Diablo]

3. DU's better informed I would say

With the corporate media blinding a huge majority of people in the USA, the internet forums become the primary source for information on what is really going on.

Thus, better informed becomes the meme.

Better informed also indicts the RW corporate media as the truly biased in the war of words.

[ignatius]

4. Wise words, Armstead, thank you. It is too bad

that the WSJ won't pick up your text.

[Booberdawg]

5. I can attest without reservation that there are people in DU that are ....

definitely NOT smarter than the average person

[Classical_Liberal]

60. Yes, the people are stupid comments came from one of your Davis

insider buds. They certainly ran their campaign assuming everyone was stupid.

[Q]

6. Uh....

...D'oh!

[Cat Atomic]

7. Agreed. I cringe at "the people are stupid" comments.

Contempt for the populace is not very populist. People here share a set of ideals, not supreme intelligence.

[rman]

12. it isn't necessarily contempt

A well educated and well informed populace is essential to a healthy democracy.
Fact is that many people are not very well educated and not very well informed. Calling this "stupidity" isn't very diplomatic and could be taken the wrong way. But the fact remains.

One consequence is that if we want to change things, it's pretty much up to us to educate and inform people.

By saying the 'stupidity' of people is not an issue, there's the risk that the problem will be ignored, which would be counter productive.

[FlaGranny]

29. I don't know about everyone on this board,

but personally sometimes I wish I were not "informed." It makes my head hurt and it makes my heart ache. I can understand why many do not wish to be informed, when the information to be gained is so damned depressing.

Sometimes I can be envious of the uninformed and other times I am angry with them, but I can understand them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. I completely agree with you

Sometimes I think I would be better off mentally and physically if I weren't so "informed." But I gone too far down the information path, too turn back now.

[bhunt70]

14. agreed

...

[Selwynn]

21. People ARE stupid

And its not contempt for the populace, its a fank acknowledgment of the state of the Union, thank to decades of a horrible educational system, and a society that cares more about their next soap than their next opportunity to expand their mind.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. When you call people stupid

You should at least proof your post first.

[jafap]

46. fank you very much

I have always read more than most people and tested in the 90th percentile, but I rarely find people to be contemptible because I can solve differential equations and they cannot even solve quadratic equations. Most people seem to have alot of knowledge and experience that I do not. They are better are repairing cars and decorating for parties than I am.
I worry more about their lack of compassion and excess of selfishness than I do about their lack of intelligence. You know, the kind of people who want to make fun of other people's typos. Back when I was a college freshman I thought libruls were stoopid because the paper publshed a picture of a guy with a sign that said: "honk if your against Reagan". What a bunch of morans, eh?

[Muddleoftheroad]

47. Hmmm

I didn't so much make fun of the typos, I made fun of the irony. (I know I make typos, I just don't pretend to be better than everybody else.) I don't have illusions about us being a superior breed here at DU. We simply choose to be politically aware. Many other people choose other things as you so correctly point out.

I never like it when posters mock the entire American public. The fact that Selwynn did so saying, "People ARE stupid" and then included multiple typos is beyond humorous. The fact that Selwynn threw in an attack on the education system just made the whole post that much more entertaining.

[Selwynn]

53. This blows my mind

The only thing that is ignorant is associating typing skills with intelligence. But why do I even reply, you know this all too well. You also know that attacking someone's spelling has become the number one internet ad hominem attack. It is becoming the most classic tool of deliberate fallacious reasoning. We all know what a simple trick it is to ignore someone's argument, and instead achieve the double success of making fun of the person and putting them down, attacking the quality of the person and not the quality of the argument, and making yourself look superior.

The only trouble is, no one is falling for it anymore. People know that typos have little to nothing to do with intellect, but they frequently do have a lot to do with how good a typer someone is, or how pressed for time someone is, or quite frankly, how much someone gives a damn about typos. However, that said - I will happily follow you around doing searches for all your posts and be sure to post every single time you have a typo, calling your argument meaningless because why should we take seriously someone who is obviously unintelligent becuase of your typing.

Or...

Maybe we should just agree that your ad hominem approach was pretty lame, and concede that typos really have nothing to do with anything other than how good a typist a person is. :)

Cheers,
Sel

[Muddleoftheroad]

56. It's not typing, it's ego

You were the one criticizing, well, pretty much everybody. Since I am part of that collective entity, I thought someone should speak up and deflate that ego a bit. Everyone makes typing mistakes. Some people catch their own mistakes. Others spend all their time claiming superiority.

You didn't just attack someone's spelling. You attacked the foundation of intelligence for an entire nation or, one might even infer, for an entire world. That's hubris.

The difference between us is I am NOT claiming superiority. I am merely saying that to make such a claim, you should back it up. You talk the talk, but by those standards, you did not walk the walk.

Again, feel free to search for my typos or stalk me all you like. Of course, since I didn't claim such superiority, the point is meaningless. I know I make mistakes. I loudly proclaim it to the world. Typos don't make 99.99% of the arguments here meaningless. But typos in a claim of superiority are beyond humor and into the absurd.

I just don't claim to be better than everybody else. Neither should you.

[Selwynn]

59. Well you say potato..

And only one coming off as ridiculously arrogant here, is you. :)

[Muddleoftheroad]

69. Clearly, that is your opinion

And that is highly questionable.

I am not the one claiming to be better than anybody. You are.

[Selwynn]

55. People are stupid, part II

Here is the better way to make the same point, rememoving the apparently inflaming word "stupid." But before I go on, I'd like to acknoweldge that I will have typos, becuase I choose not to cut in past this into a word processor as it is not worth that effort. Hopefully your magesty the lord of all perfect typing can humbly pardon my errors..

The people of the American public are several things. They are:

a) disinterested in the system on the whole - this is why voter turnout is usually low, why people cannot even name cadidates most of the time, and why people on the whole never seem to have a good grasp of the issues
b) suffering from an educational system that by all accounts, on all sides, is really in serious trouble. A very large percentage of Americans do not or cannot pursue higher education, which is where a lot of the dismal failings in the American educational system are corrected.

The combination of disinterest and ignorance is frequently evident in a very large cross-section of the American public. Add to this one other critical piece of the puzzle:

c) very, very well indoctrinated and conditioned to be told what to think rather than to think for themselves in many instances. What I am refering to here, is the effect of the media and the effect of political spin - we spend a lot of time telling the american public what to think rather than providing them tools to think for themselves, and the american public - perhaps due to this frequent combination of disinterest and ignorance - gobble it up. This is why you so often hear people uttering political talking points that they have no doubt absorbed from the media's chosen message, but when you press them to answer qusetions about their position, they tend to crumble.

So, over the majority of the American public, I believe that disinterest, ignorance and indoctrination do indeed play a very large part. And there are in fact a fairly decent ammount of studies that do seem to lay creedence to some or all of these points...

So, the shorter version of saying this amoung "friends," where I shouldn't have to qualifiy and delicately phrase every single remark, is that people are stupid. :)

Cheers!
Sel

[Muddleoftheroad]

57. You can't let it go

Again, you are among people who have something in common, but that does not make us friends.

Are people disinterested? Absolutely. Perhaps it's because they feel left out of the process. This is reinforced by people who claim they are stupid because they have more to do in life than worry about issues that they can't impact.

Does the educational system let them down? Again, yes. But that is not their fault.

Are they indoctrinated? No, I disagree. Both sides of the political debate make the same claim that you do. In my experience, when both extremes are claiming the same bias, the result is probably a fairly decent compromise. There is more media available to people than anytime in history. More opinions can be shared. More ideas from around the globe get coverage even here in America. In short, despite the corporate media, people learn more than you give them credit for accomplishing.

Ultimately, it seems you have fallen into a classic extremist trap. The people don't believe as you do, don't act as you wish. Naturally, that must make them stupid. It does not.

People here keep pointing out that the right is now watching this site. Posts like yours need to be skewered so the world doesn't think we are all quite so full of ourselves.

The people are NOT stupid. Get out in the world and meet them and you will find that out.

[Selwynn]

58. Neither can you, but thank you...

For the fair response.

My experience of getting "out in the world" has led me to different conclusions than you. We are also I think quibbling over the use of the word "stupid." It's sounds like we can agree however, than people on the whole are disinterested and undereducated. We disagree that people let the media do most political thinking for them instead of thinking for themselves, but that's ok. What you've agreed to is what I meant in saying people are stupid. If you don't like that word, or think its too harsh, fine. Then the majority of people are disinterested and undereducated, and I personally believe, prone to regurgitate what they or told - either from the media or from personal tradition - rather than think for themselves. No need to shorten that up to the word "stupid" if that is objectionable.

By the way, by "friends" in this case, I meant in fact, "people who have something in common." Believe me, I would never presume that we were remotely close to friends.

Cheers!
Sel

PS - by the way, I did not claim superiority, ever. You inferred superiority and you did so erroneously. The only claim I make is that I am in the minority, not the majority in this particular instance. I am interested, well educated, and I make up my own mind based on credible evidence. However, superior? No, in fact I dare say I probably have far more problems and shortcomings than most people. Just not in the same areas as this.

[Classical_Liberal]

62. Uninformed is not the same as stupid

.

[Selwynn]

63. Probably right (nt)

[Jose Diablo]

64. Uh, whats "rememoving " mean?

:D

[Selwynn]

50. Yes, because intelligence and typing skills are related :/

[durutti]

8. Plenty of Stupid DUers

Especially on the I/P board.

[jbfam4]

9. right on

We know what America was, what it is now and what it should be.

All we are trying to do is make our country better.

[Armstead]

17. That's true

A lot of basic values that existed -- such as responsibility of companies to their employees -- have been tossed out the window in the last 20 years.

Getting back to a saner and more decent baseline is what's needed. And that is not a radical idea.

[Kamika]

10. you know that they wont care about posts like these?

The fact that they are a conservative paper means they will only post the bad posts even if they are 1/20.

Just accept it. There's seriously nothing stopping them from posting it themselves

[kentuck]

11. What Armstead said...

:)

[izzie]

13. What I think most are here is this, You have open minds.

You hear other views and think or usually think about them before you say they are right or wrong. The Right wingers seem to say 'I am right" end of subject. They will not even open their minds to hear the other side. It is a make -up thing not IQ. Bush is not stuped he just is 'right all the time' so it is hard for a group to understand it. Dem seem to get these type people where the other type go towards the GOP. I am not sure why. Their are most likely jobs that these types go for also. It shows up in the hate of anyone who even writes what they do not like. Look at the courts, if they side with them they are right and next day the courts do not side with them so are wrong.

[roughsatori]

15. I laugh every time DUers mock Freeper spelling and punctuation

Because there will always be a response in agreement to the "Freepers can't Write English" by a DUer who misspells and does not know the difference between a split infinitive and hole in the ground.

Then if you dare point to their slovenly grammar you will be labeled as a "Grammar Nazi," a term that sounds as if it were invented by the drug addled mind of a Reich-wing Oxycontin addict.

Good post, thanks.

[Terwilliger]

16. Thank you, Armstead

:hi: :toast:

[Room101]

18. DU is better informed than the Masses

A well-informed populace is the most dangerous thing to the power elite. I agree being well informed does not equate with being smarter.

I do agree with Walter Lippman, that there is a Bewildered herd that is made up of 90% of the populace. (There degree of smartness matters not if they have fallen into the trap of servitude)


We here at DU seemed to react to reason, as opposed to the bewildered herd, which tends to react to emotion.

[Nlighten1]

19. Speak for yourself friend...

I am smarter than most. Does that mean I ridicule people for it...no but sometimes the truth hurts. Look around DU and you see some of the brightest people in America.

[Selwynn]

20. There are actually studies....

that indicate a link between intelligence, education and liberalism.

Basically the smarter you are, the more liberal you are. :)

Oh and by the way although I didn't make the original post, I am NOT apologizing for the truth of the matter, which is that most of the people draw to a forum such as this propbably represent a smart group of folks. We are not just "average." And I'm not embarassed or apoplogizing about that fact. If the WSJ wants to twist it to make it look bad, I don't give a damn.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. The fact is we are

but I will stop saying it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. Smarter, no, more hubris, yes

At least for a few.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. Smarter Yes- IT IS A FACT

There are studies that confirm that enlightened, informed people are as a matter of course more liberal. Note the unavoidable bias in academia- or are they all just thoughtless "eggheads"?
Another proof is the lack of the death penalty in every European country. In fact the US is the ONLY Western country barbaric enough to still allow it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

41. Lies, damn lies and stats

Seriously, you have no idea what the real demographics are of DU. No surveys have been done, no tests administered. I see enough typos, misspellings and bad grammar here to last a lifetime. Does that make the posters less intelligent? No. But it certainly calls into question your theory.

[Selwynn]

51. Give me a break

The only thing that calls into question his theory is your implying that typos should call into question his theory.

[DrGonzoLives]

71. And where are these studies?

I don't suppose you could point us to them could you? Hmmmmmmm?

But keep laboring under your elitist illusions. It's funny.

[CWebster]

23. Well said,

Armstead.

[Rex]

24. WSJ has some hack opinion piece about DU

BFD.

[Selwynn]

25. Who cares ,though?

I'm not going to run around and start cleanin up MY HOUSE for an UNIVTED guest.

[Rex]

26. Exactomundo!

Oh yeah, about the DU community being "smarter" than the average Joe - we isn't BUT we also isn't no MORANS (freeper jab).

[piece sine]

31. they can still see you

Whether you care or not, they are able to look in thru a "window" at DU and they are going to form an opinion.

[Selwynn]

52. Again - WHO CARES

[piece sine]

32. naw....

it's got a larger readship than the New York Times. Although the editorial page is right-wing, the reporters are firstr-rate and millions view it over-all as objective. Even if we disagree, millions will still view as at least reliable. Being thrust into a bad light in front of millions gives some of us pause. To us, it really is a BFD because the nature of DU shifts if we're cyber-viewed by a huge audience.

Now we can compete with each other to see who's most outrageous quote will be tossed-about by Sean Hannity or we can impress some newcomers with articulate progressive discourse.

There's room for both. We need the bomb-throwers for a circus-effect that keeps 'em coming bak for more. We need the pillars of society, too...the sainted schoolteachers, that one wit mentioned earlier.

[Rex]

35. The nature of DU shifts when millions of eyes are watching?

Well isn't that sad.

[msmcghee]

30. Well said.

However, I believe there is also an underlying zeitgeist (I could have said "thought" but I'm sticking this in to sound smarter than pukes here cause it really irritates them) in our approach to governance and morality - that makes us very different.

Conservatives tend to approach those matters from the standpoint of rigid principles, often God mandated - that leave little room for the nuance and reality of human nature. They don't even acknowledge that knowing more about human nature (being smarter) is important.

Liberals - and most here at DU, even if they are Christians, tend to believe that well-meaning, fair-minded people, using their brains and working together can make life better and have a positive influence on all people's lives through how we govern.

i.e. they reject intellect as a tool for the betterment of the human condition through governance - we tend to celebrate it.

[Darranar]

33. Thank you...

My thoughts as well.

[tom_paine]

34. Nicely said.

[Generic Other]

36. Reposting my rant from a locked thread. My rebuttal? Send to WSJ?

What are the known facts? Many of us have been screaming bloody murder for the last 3 years as we watched neo-con policy end up in disaster after disaster. The majority of our friends, neighbors and co-workers were silent or backed the neo-cons.

We tried to educate, warn, and plead with our fellow Americans to use critical thinking skills, to become informed, to prove their intelligence and their commitment as citizens of this nation to help shape its policies in a responsible fashion. How many chose to follow our lead? 20%? Is that the WSJs number? I don't know if it was that high.

I don't think intelligence can be measured on some bell curve test. Intelligence is measured by a person's ability to live his or her life in a manner that suggests one gains insight as one ages, that one is a lifelong learner. That is the difference between an intelligent person and all the rest of the people on this planet. If being a compassionate person, an honest person, a responsible person both in my personal life and as a citizen of my community means I should be subject to ridicule by the WSJ, then so be it. I have been called worse names.

Yes, I am an elitist. On your standardized intelligence tests, I scored in the upper 2 percentile. 98% of the people taking the tests scored lower than I. But I don't consider this a mark of my intelligence. The mark of my intelligence is in my contributions to the betterment of humanity. If I leave this earth a worse place for my having been here, I will view myself a miserable failure. I believe that even a genius can be stupid. Because smart people can do stupid things.

If I can sleep nights without ever worrying about what self-serving fascists have done to my country, I will castigate myself for having been a dumb idiot. If I allow myself to be deceived and manipulated, slandered and abused, to be hypnotized like a suggestible fool, I will deserve to be called stupid. I will have earned the title "dunce."

Until then, I am proud not to be a part of that group.
Even if it is in the majority!

And by the way, to the WSJ: I don't want to be a rocket scientist. I'd rather be a janitor.

[F.Gordon]

37. If I was smart enough to understand your post

I'd try replying to it.
:dunce:

Nicely said Armstead. I don't know who said it..but it's a quote I remember when harsh humility (quite often) hits me in the face; "intelligence is an awareness of just how stupid you are".

[Nikia]

38. I don't know

Many stupid people I know act like heard animals. People with little intelligence are more likely to say, the president knows best or vote for someone based on a single issue. I suppose that some people with little intelligence will say "F*ck authority" and ally with us. Really though, it takes intelligence to question authority and dominate organizations. It takes more intelligence to come up with alternatives though. I find this board intellectually stimulating. I'd say that we are above average. I do not consider occaisional spelling and grammar mistakes to have anything to do with intelligence.

[Robin Hood]

40. Yeah, well. The pro-war crowd sure was brilliant...NOT!!!

We have been right all along. They have been wrong all along. And now they hate us for it and are trying to use the fact that we are more informed against us. They are only trying to draw attention away from Bush's non-stop failures.

Fuzzy Math.

[BeFree]

45. Great thread, ya'll.

A number of ya'lls marvelous posts continued the fine tradition of good, progressive, reasoning, here, today.

One thing is for sure... DU ain't stupid. Whatever ya want to call the sheeple, that'll be fine. But DU damn sure ain't got but just a few sheeple onboard.

Peace.... Coming to your hometown in 2005

[Maddy McCall]

43. "Nor are we better informed."? Oh YES we are.

We are definitely better informed than the general American populace who listen to O'Reilly and Hannity for their news.

We look at diversified sources before coming to conclusions...that makes us MUCH BETTER INFORMED.

[calm_blue_ocean]

49. What "diversified sources?"

I get my info from Google News, NPR, LA Times and PBS. There are conservative viewpoints expressed in and presumably conservative consumers of all of these news sources. For example, some LA Times subscribers cancelled their subscriptions in protest of the Arnold groping story -- these cancellers were probably mostly conservatives.

It is not fair to assume that conservatives limit themselves to Hannity or O'Reilly. It is a JaneKat-style, elitist assumption.

Are DUers out there receiving some kind of special liberals-only media that I am not aware of?

[Pastiche423]

44. People that come to DU

and other such forums, have a desire to be more informed. Does that mean they are smarter? Not necessarily, but seeking knowledge is a pathway to that end.

[elperromagico]

48. Agreed

I don't think I'm smarter than those "out of the loop," so to speak. I do think, however, that I'm more interested in political matters than the average person.

I know plenty of intelligent, sensible people who couldn't care less about politics and are bored by the whole thing. I don't talk about politics with them, and that's fine. I don't regard myself as their superior because of their disinterest; there are subjects they are deeply interested in that I couldn't care less about as well.

I also have friends who, like me, are very interested in politics. Some are conservative, some are moderate, and others are liberal. I enjoy the talks I have with them about political matters. Some of the best political conversations I've had have been with conservatives. I enjoy debating with conservative friends; it gives us both a chance to express our opinions in a setting where we know we will both be friends when all is said and done, and it helps us understand our different perspectives.

So, no, I don't think I'm "smarter." I just find politics to be more exciting than a lot of people do.

[Philostopher]

54. Good words, Armstead.

And I would like to add that, pedant that I am, I make a distinction between ignorance (not knowing very much, or choosing not to find the information, even if it's available) and stupidity (not being able to know very much, however much information is available).

Personally, I don't think people -- even everybody over at FR -- is stupid. Calling them ignorant isn't necessarily telling them anything they don't know, because many of them choose ignorance over knowledge, because it's easier to let someone tell you what to do. Having knowledge might imply the necessity to parse the information and, quite possibly, to do something about it.

Knowing things is difficult -- I know many of the things I know about the Bush administration make my head hurt, and my stomach hurt, and my conscience hurt. It's easier to plug your ears, close your eyes, and shout "La la la! I'm not listening to you! La la la!" because then you don't have any responsibility to think about how things are going wrong, or how they might be better. And if it all goes to hell, you can simply say "I didn't know it was going to get that bad! Nobody told me!"

Ignorance isn't necessarily stupidity, although unintelligent people often are ignorant, and ignorant people cover the spectrum of intelligence. I think we have roughly the same proportion of intelligence to stupidity here at DU that any other more or less randomly chosen group of the same size would have. I just think we very likely have a lower proportion of people who choose to remain ignorant about information that makes them uneasy or might imply they should get off their asses and do something.

[Redleg]

61. I don't know about everyone else but I AM SMARTER

than the average person- at least about things I know about!

[MrPrax]

65. Oh not again...

OMG...the Wall Street Journal!!!! accuses DU of being elitist and educated!!!...

Damn...well I am going to run to the washroom and weep uncontrollably now...

This statement:
"Most of us here on DU do not believe we are "smarter" than the "average" person."
How do you know? Most?
Many most DU'er are overeducated eltists that read too much!!
That's a crime!!!...

[cap]

66. No we are simply doing the job that

responsible newspapers used to do.

I invite any WSJ lurkers to go back and read the WSJ in the 1980's and compare it to what they are doing now. The WSJ is not as bad as many papers have become but they still aren't what they used to be. I used to be able to get both sides reported in the WSJ. While the editorial page may not always have been to my liking I could always get very good analysis of both sides of a news story. That aint so these days. All I can say is at least the WSJ isn't the Washington Times.

[Armstead]

75. Smart is relative

One can be smart in certain respects and dumber than a box of rocks in other ways...Which is fine. But when a person starts to believe they are superior than everyone else because of the type of knowledge they posess, then they are actually lacking in common sense.

[screaming_meme]

67. WRONG. Americans are dumb. Look who they vote for

Bush over Gore? Arnold over Bustamante? It's been said a millions times before here and I'll say it again; Americans are MORANS who have been dumbed down by public schools and mesmerized by the conservative media.

[Darranar]

70. Gore won...

There goes your argument.

[screaming_meme]

72. News to me. Why isn't he in the White House?

Get over it

[Darranar]

74. BUSH CHEATED!

GORE WON!

And no, I won't get over it.

It was a coup in 2000.

BUsh stole the election. When our illegitimate tyrant-in-chief is knocked out of office as he should be, perhaps then I'll "get over it." The slimy reptile currently occupying the White House has no right to be there. Does that matter at all to you?

[DrGonzoLives]

73. Funny, I didn't vote for Bush

And yet I'm an American. Help! Help! Does not compute! Brain exploding! :eyes:

[screaming_meme]

78. Naturally, the fine folks at DU are excepted

I'm talking about the knuckle-draggers in the red states.

[LibDemAlways]

68. My 2 cents

DUers are not necessarily "smarter" than others, but they are a hell of a lot better informed.

In my experience most people prefer to remain ignorant about the evils of the BFEE. They know something isn't right but don't have the inclination or the tenacity to pursue it. It's easier to remain out of the loop.

[Matilda]

76. I think "easy" is the operative word.

I believe it's plain mental laziness that causes most people to remain ignorant. "The truth is out there", but it takes time and a little mental energy to seek it out, and it's much easier to sit in front of the TV and pick up a few 10-second grabs and call it keeping informed. Generally mainstream newspapers have also become more conservative, as they fall into the hands of a few huge corporations which have their own agenda, and that agenda is not about keeping people informed, that's the last thing they want.

The most frustrating people are those who simply don't want to listen to any opinion other than the one they've formed, often from
television and talk-back radio. You can give them any amount of
clear information, and even tell them where to look it up for themselves, but they won't have a bar of it. Sometimes it's a result of stupidity, which they can't help, but sometimes it's just willful
ignorance. And especially with older people, however well-meaning they may be, their security comes from sticking with what they've always believed, possibly it's what their parents believed, and to
acknowledge any other way of looking at something threatens to knock them out of their comfort zone. But we still have to try, I do believe that. We can't ever give up on those people, or we're doomed!

[Bozita]

77. Now, this is a thread worth spending time on.

Thanks, Armstead.

[tom_paine]

79. kick

:kick: