Freeper response: "Howard Dean and Old Glory"

[janx]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/999433/posts

Democratic Presidential Debate | October 11, 2003 | nwrep


Posted on 10/11/2003 8:48 AM MDT by nwrep


In the Democratic Presidential debates recently, Howard Dean has, on more than one occasion, used the following words with small variations:

"We are going to take our flag back. This is our flag. This flag belongs to us, not to Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell."

The depths of hypocrisy and logical inconsistency revealed by this statement are staggering. I would like to ask Mr. Dean the following questions:

1. If you claim to have as much ownership of old glory as Limbaugh (and by extension, Republicans), why don't you proudly wear it on your lapel?

2. Why did you appear at a rally at which absolutely no US flags were displayed, but which featured a plethora of Palestinian flags?

3. Why do your supporters not proudly fly and display the flag?

4. Why did the anti-war movement (of which you are a part and one of the chief representatives in the Democratic debates), repeatedbly burn and otherwise desecrate the flag during their rallies and protests?

5. Why did the anti-war movement display versions of Old Glory with the stars replaced by the swastika and other hateful symbols?

6. Many liberals, particularly African-American liberals, have gone on record stating that the US flag is a symbol of slavery and oppression. What do you have to say about that?

Ownership of Old Glory is not limited to a group or a party, but you and your kind, by your dishonorable conduct, have proven unworthy custodians of this great symbol of freedom and liberty.


_________________________________________________________________

As for the knee-jerk reaction to the lapel pin...(sigh)...



Dean doesn't say that the flag belongs to "us," exclusively. He says that it belongs to "all of us."

I don't know what rally featuring "a plethora of Palestinian flags" the freeper is referring to. Does anyone know where he got such an idea?

This guy thinks that Dean supporters do not proudly fly and display the flag?



The "anti-war movement" is not the same thing as the Dean campaign, which is and has been firmly against the Iraq war.

Where do freepers get these ideas, from Rush Limbaugh?

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Here they go again ...

What is it with the Rectal Righties and their lists of questions?

Do they all think they are Joseph McCarthy come back from the dead?

--bkl

[janx]

7. I wanted so badly to reply to that rube...but I'd only get kicked

off. The freeper didn't really want answers to his questions; he wanted to portray a fiction against Dean, to create something that wasn't there.

[Dogfolks]

11. Maybe they've taken a marketing course.....

....where they teach you that he who asks the questions the one who is in control. So, it must be a pitiful attempt to appear to be in control of something....anything.....

Sad, really.

[janx]

13. Yet he's not really expecting any answers. He's doing it to distort.

Nobody on that site would answer any of these questions; they're meant to be rhetorical, but they're so skewed that they fail...miserably!

[Dogmudgeon]

22. The bitch of it all ...

... is that so many liberals/progressives fall for it.

We really need to put a few of these "20 questions" broadsides together with our own snarky rhetoric. That way, if you get an e-mail forwarded to you, you have something to forward back.

--bkl

[Colin Ex]

2. Why don't you proudly wear it on your lapel?

That's probably the stupidest thing I've seen all morning.

I don't wear an American flag lapel pin -- ergo I am unpatriotic.

Yeah, that checks out well.

-C

[JohnKleeb]

3. yep Colin

We dont need a fucking lapel pin. Theres more to patriotism than just the flag.

[Ripley]

4. Sounds familiar...now who was it that loved symbols so much?

Hmmm. Begins with an H...you know that guy who just loved funny twisted crosses and eagles...

[JohnKleeb]

6. This guy

[janx]

9. He has a pocket pin!

But seriously, the frenzy of nationalism is similar. Why can't freepers and "their kind" realize that?

[Ripley]

12. JINX.....

Ayup. Great minds think alike at exactly the same time!

[JohnKleeb]

14. I dunno janx and ripley I dont know

[janx]

17. It seems fairly obvious to you and to me. Why not to wingnuts?

?

[JohnKleeb]

23. They are idiots quite simply put

The flag is good and all but I think it and statue of liberty are symbols of hope.
Probably one of my favorite photographs. The right like that guy lol use the flag as a message that we are superior, I would like it used, to promote benevolence.

[Ripley]

10. Yeah, that's the guy!

Why don't the freepers realize their obsession with symbols of nationalism is dangerous and can lead to the horrors of Nazi Germany?

[silverweb]

16. Maybe...

...because they don't believe Nazi Germany was a horror?

[janx]

18. I refuse to believe that even the most ignorant would not realize

that.

[Ripley]

21. Well there are all of those "Holocaust Deniers."

And I've heard some people actually blame Communism for WWII.

Now I ain't a history buff, but the Commies were our friends, right?

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. Well certainly the Muscleheaded Nazi admiring Gov.

of Calleforneea must not.

[janx]

5. We and "our kind" have proven unworthy custodians...?

?

Nope. You can't take our flag away. It belongs to all of us.

[realFedUp]

8. I personally am tired of reading what freepers say

there is so much other stuff to read here...

[LoZoccolo]

15. Bipsy dipsy biddledy bum bum...

...yabba yabaa wikka wakka wubba wob. Dody dody hummba hummba yiddledy yum yum yakka yak. Gibba gobba bubsy yubsy dim dum dubba.

Seriously though, conservatives like the flag so much because you can wrap it in anything. Something with /meaning/, like the United States Constitution, doesn't get put up much (except the second amendment).

That having been said, I have a question for HIM!

1. Why does the conservative movement, which he is a member of, often fly this traitorous secessionist "Confederate Flag"? The proof is at the website of the Council of Conservative Citizens at http://www.cofcc.org !
2. Why don't conservatives rally to get this traitorous secessionist flag off of the state flags of U.S. states?

[janx]

20. Well you are right of course. African Americans aren't offended

by the U.S. flag; they are offended by the Confederate flag. He fails to make that distinction in his post, purposefully and disingenuously. He meant to do it.

[LoZoccolo]

26. Hmmm actually...

...I do think he was talking about the US flag (I've seen all groups of people make this characterization though), but yeah, the Confederate flag is even more offensive to African-Americans. I don't know what he really adds to his argument by making it racial, other than to rally racists.

[_Jumper_]

30. It is to rally racists

The majority of Freepers are racist.

[janx]

24. I think that when Dean reminds us that the flag belongs to all

of us, it's a very good thing. The extreme right has used the flag as a campaign tool, as a source of unwarranted superiority, and as a source of this frenzied nationalism that scares the bejeezus out of most reasonable people.

So I'm always delighted when Dean reminds people that the flag belongs to every American citizen. It's a good message for everyone.

[demnan]

25. The arguments are stupid . . . .

but also factually wrong. Dean always wears a flag lapel pin and I've never seen him at a rally with a Palestinian flag.

[CWebster]

27. They do not claim what the flag represents.

It is not the display of the flag, it is in the fundamental principles that you ideally believe the flag should represent that is the measure of allegiance. if you rally around the flag, but deface it by supporting a government that violates citizens' rights and liberties and represses and exploits other countries, then the flag is defaced---and no one has the right to demand allegiance to the flag when it is monoplolized by those who would deface it.

[janx]

29. That's the irony of it, yeah.

What this administration has done is so clearly UNAmerican that it makes me ill.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. They can display all the America flags they want too

whereever they want too. Likewise I can choose not too display an American flag. Choosing or not choosing to do either doesn't make them any more American nor me any less UnAmerican. Further, as long as they are asking questions, they should ask theirselves this.How does Bush* standing in front of half a dozen American flags while stepping all over the Bill of Rights show Love of Country, which I what I take from this, is their meaning of displaying an American flag. Also, those f***ers(thanks John Kleeb :-): ) who resort to calling millions in this Country who opposed the illegal invasion of Iraq, UnAmerican while still supporting their AWOL President who clearly doesn't support the Troops he put in harm's way in either actions or words, are the ones who are truly UnAmerican.

They, Bush* and the GOP can kiss my All American a**. :-)