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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 07:58 PM
Original message
Identical (fake) letters from 503rd in Iraq - links to letters
This google search will turn them up - did I miss any? http://tinyurl.com/qlmo


Pittsburgh:
Spc. Nathan Whitelatch
ABLE Co., 2nd Battalion (Airborne), 503rd Infantry
Kirkuk, Iraq.
(Connellsville resident)
"I have been serving in Iraq for over five months now ..."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/letters/s_154288.html

Albuquerque, NM
Pfc. Jason Marshall of Edgewood is a 2001 graduate of Moriarty High School and the son of new Moriarty High principal Wayne Marshall and his wife, Keli.
"I have been serving in Iraq for over five months now ..."
http://www.mvtelegraph.com/opinion/83932mtnview09-11-03.htm

Utica, NY:
Sgt. 1st Class Edwin Gargas
"I have been serving in Iraq for over five months now ..."
http://www.uticaod.com/archive/2003/09/11/opinion/14782.html

Everett, WA:
Sgt. Chris Shelton
"I have been serving in Iraq for over five months now ..."
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:XmQ8djW4-NwJ:www.heraldnet.com/Stories/03/9/6/17425574.cfm+%22The+quality+of+life+and+security+for+the+citizens+has+been+largely+restored%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8">Daily Herald

Boston, MA
PFC ADAM C. CONNELL
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2003/09/14/gis_have_made_things_better_in_iraq/">Boston Globe
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, they even have pictures of the fake writers
This cannot stand. We need to write every one of these papers and make them retract the letters.
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. This should be brought to the media's attention ASAP
What a bunch of BS. So the * is out there lying his ass off about the good news that is not being reported and has enlisted the help of our service men. If all was going so well they would not need a "forn letter". This is outrageous.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I heard about this
I cannot rememeber which cable news channel I had it on, but I did hear about this earlier today. Not good, not good at all.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. The news is getting out
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's a summary:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. Thanks. This is the kind of thing you need to cut through all the "noise"
and laser in on just what indeed happened.
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. The last two links don't work...
Might want to check to see if they are correct. Of course, the newspapers may have already been shown the fraud and pulled them.

Nonetheless. Each one of these papers ought to see the other four with "unique" authors and see what they have to say about that. :grr:
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. here
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Do these people even exist
and if they do, do they know anything about these letters?

It be great to find a couple of them and see what they have to say.

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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. I posted all their addresses
somewhere in here...

they are all soldiers and they are all in Iraq


write them and ask them
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
77. So then did they write and sign
the letters?

There seems to be reports that at least a couple of these guys claim to not know anything about these letters. If that is the case, then we have a problem don't we?
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great Work!
The onus for all these seems to have come from DU.

This was posted earlier.

Great!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Now a genuine letter will be suspect, though.
I wonder if that was the intent of this turf effort?
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another one I think
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Well...
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:35 PM by kevinc
I just did a world wide locater search on the army website...

For the first letter's writer

It is an authentic soldier that is indeed serving in Iraq...


here is his info
SPC WHITELATCH NATHAN DAVID

02 0503 IN A COMPANY

APO, AE 09630

i will search more of them and tell you how they turn out


SFC GARGAS EDWIN THADDEUS JR

02 0503 IN B CO




APO, AE 09630


SGT SHELTON CHRISTOPHER RANDALL

02 0503 IN HHC

APO, AE 09630

ADAM C. CONNELL


PFC CONNELL ADAM CHARLES

02 0503 IN A COMPANY

APO, AE 09630

PFC MARSHALL JASON CHRISTOPHER

02 0503 IN HHC

APO, AE 09630





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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. The soldiers are real
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:55 PM by eileen_d
The point is that the same "form letter" was sent to various units in Iraq and soldiers were asked to sign if they agreed with it.

Six soldiers reached by GNS directly or through their families said they agreed with the letter's thrust. But none of the soldiers said he wrote it, and one said he didn't even sign it.

Marois, 23, told his family he signed the letter, said Moya Marois, his stepmother. But she said he was puzzled why it was sent to the newspaper in Olympia. He attended high school in Olympia but no longer considers the city home, she said. Moya Marois and Alex's father, Les, now live near Kooskia, Idaho.

A seventh soldier didn't know about the letter until his father congratulated him for getting it published in the local newspaper in Beckley, W.Va. "When I told him he wrote such a good letter, he said: 'What letter?' " Timothy Deaconson said Friday, recalling the phone conversation he had with his son, Nick. "This is just not his (writing) style."


http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml

It's just an incredibly stupid PR stunt IMO. Typical of the Shrub and his minions.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. So some of these letters are forgeries?
Isn't that a crime?

Oh right, Bu$h & Co are above the law.

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
73. I wrote those assholes a nasty letter!
I told them I was pissed because my Dad sent me the Daily Mail every day when I was stationed overseas in 70-71 and that they had turned into a Bush propaganda organ! Dad would be pissed at them if he were alive today, because they were a decent paper back in the 70s and now they suck up to Bush and his Gangstas!

I told them I was sending the link to their story along with all the others across the country to Robert Byrd! I'll let you know if they contact me re: my email!

The Daily Mail is a Reich Wing rag anymore anyway! BTW, I was nice about it, but by by-God it was hard to be nice! I told them I was sure they had been duped, but they probably would have printed the letter anyway if they thought it would help Bush out!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kick
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dupe
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:24 PM by dutchdemocrat
Please respond to this thread - yes there is an older one. Ten hours ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=517813
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here we go again
More astroturf praising our fearless leader's "bold and determined leadership."

They never learn, do they? One would think after all the bad publicity they got the last time they pulled this that they would try another angle.

Here's an old DU thread about the last astroturf fiasco, where the GOP was giving out mouse pads and other junk to get people to write letters.


Cher
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. DutchDemocrat's Graphic
This was in a post by DutchDemocrat that got locked.....it was good and should really be seen. At least somebody is reporting this.
Thanks, DutchDemocrat! ---- Jason


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CarlBallard Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm just amazed the Daily O could do anything right
Even after getting two identical letters. Maybe they've gotten better since I lived down there. Although in fairness they do cover the legislature pretty well.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ok view my
First reply


I checked out all the names on the Army's World wide locator..(if you arent military doen even try)


https://192.188.209.252/wwl/ssn.htm


These guys are in the 503 and they are in Iraq...

they may have had "letter writing sessions" but they really soldiers and they really are there...so if they signed it..its a real letter
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I just replied to you above
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:45 PM by eileen_d
See post #18. It doesn't matter if the soldiers are in the 503 and in Iraq. It's a bad PR stunt.

Sgt. Todd Oliver, a spokesman for the 173rd Airborne Brigade, which counts the 503rd as one of its units, said he was told a soldier wrote the letter, but he didn't know who. He said the brigade's public affairs unit was not involved.

"When he asked other soldiers in his unit to sign it, they did," Oliver explained in an e-mail response to a GNS inquiry. "Someone, somewhere along the way, took it upon themselves to mail it to the various editors of newspapers across the country."


http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml

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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I hear ya
but if they signed it...and contrary to popular belief the army wont make you sign something like that....then it is a real letter...pr stunt or not...

just be carefule on how you react to it is what i am saying...
and yes the army does all kinds of PR stuff so I wouldnt doubt that..
just watch the fallout if you are suggesting the soldiers arent real...
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. You MUST be joking...
...then wouldn't it make more sense to have them as signatories to a letter, rather than trying to artificially create the impression that all these soldiers are taking the time to write long flowery letters about how wonderful Iraq is?

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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. they are
form letters look at the pics

all kinds of stuff liek this gets circulated around


all troops have to do is sign and viola the world knows what kind of good they are doing
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I am not suggesting the soldiers aren't real
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:53 PM by eileen_d
As you would know if you read my post above, titled "The soldiers are real."

I'm suggesting the letters are inauthentic. Read the article in The Olympian. One soldier had his dad call to congratulate him for getting the letter published, and the soldier replied, "What letter?" I'm sorry, but if that's PR, it's piss-poor PR.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. well
1st of all Dads dont call their sons in Iraq...troops call home
very few folks know the numbers or have the line connection (DSN) to call troops in Iraq so that sounds about fishy
trust me if I get a medal it is my hometown paper sometimes even before I have gotten it...hometown PR is a big big deal for the army helps recruiting and so forth

they have all kinds of hometown news releases, pre printed and soldiers just fill in the blanks and sign..not that hard...
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. OK - the dad spoke to his son on the phone
That's what the article said. So that's my error. It doesn't make my point any less valid.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. No one is saying the soldiers aren't real - We're PO'ed they were used
To commit fraud and plagerism.

We're PO'ed the BFEE has such distain for American people that they would use psyops against us.

And damn sloppy cut-rate psyops at that!

Another leader once put great stock in deliberately lying to his people. He also put great stock in nationalism.

The BFEE folks hate being compared to this particular past leader...

But they continue to act like him down to nearly every detail.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. I just emailed the Connellsville paper..
Very simple I told the editor: "You've been had" and I referenced his letter and the Oregon article.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. If you really want the lowdown..
write the soldiers a brief note and send it to them...include toothbrushes or something and tell them about it..print a copy of the letter and asked if they signed it or not..

you have their addresses above...


just dont get belligerent with them or they will tell you where to go and how to get there...
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Of course...
...a regime that astroturfs propaganda to US citizens would never think about monitoring correspondence and ensuring that their POV was the only one heard...right? No, they'd NEVER do that. They'd never intentionally spread lies, or encourage others to lie. They'd never leak the name of a covert operative, endangering national security, for petty revenge. They'd never deliberately subvert democracy. Just write and ask, I'm sure you'll get an unvarnished response.

Pardon me while I don't bother to hold my breath...
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. actually
you probably would..

this is not classified info and if you ask straight up without venom or vengence or inferring that you are asking about this to harm the army..

its not nearly a big as deal as you are making it out to be.(asking the soldiers)
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. This paper caught it--they got two identical copies(except for signature!)
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:54 PM by DanSpillane
Many Soldiers, Same Letter
Newspapers Around US Get Identical Missives from Iraq

by Ledyard King, Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON -- Letters from hometown soldiers describing their successes rebuilding Iraq have been appearing in newspapers across the country as U.S. public opinion on the mission sours.

And all the letters are the same.

The Olympian received two identical letters signed by different hometown soldiers: Spc. Joshua Ackler and Spc. Alex Marois, who is now a sergeant. The paper declined to run either because of a policy not to publish form letters.

http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml


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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. again..
look at the letters

all troops have to do is sign


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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Did they do this during WWII?
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 08:58 PM by DanSpillane
I don't think in real wars they do this, at least on our side!?!?

Doesn't(didn't) China and Nazi Germany do things like this to "spread the right message"?

Anybody know?

Amazing it took this long to figure this out! The letters have been appearing fo a month! What else in the news is fake???
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I HAVE looked at the letters...
...only thing that makes them so OBVIOUSLY form letters is that they got CAUGHT. But the formatting of the document, and the handy addition of a writers block at the bottom, try to convey an ARTIFICIAL SENSE of authenticity. It's called astroturfing, and it's a damn shame that not only does this regime astroturf, but that they do so willingly, with lies, half-truths and the apparatus of government funded by taxpayers to do so.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. LETTER-GATE???
???
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. dude
seriously take off the tinfoil hat

The ARMY (and all branches of the military) does these kinds of things...


HOMETOWN NEWS RELEASES ARE A BIG DEAL it boosts morale and is good for recruiting and relatively cheap.....

for petes sake man

even under clinton while in korea I got these same kind of things..
just signed it and didnt think to much about it...
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. It would just look a lot better
if a form letter weren't gussied up to look like a personal letter. I'd also like to know who wrote the original letter - was it a soldier from the 503? I doubt we'll ever get that answer.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I doubt that it was
it was some LT or CPT that is a staff aide that wrote them I imagine

pre printed

I _____________ am in Iraq blah blah blah doing good and blah blah blah near the city of __________________. The people blah blah

I am from______________


get the picture?
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. So are you trying to tell us that...
...this was actually a fill-in the blanks form letter? Because it isn't. Are you trying to imply that the army sends out astroturf made to give the impression these letters are most certainly meant to convey all the time? Come on. This doesn't require tinfoil. They got caught lying and fabricating again, manipulation. OSP. Office of Propaganda style. You can think whatever you'd like, but I'm having trouble getting what the hell your point is. Are you excusing this? Whatever. We've seen the "bold leadership" astroturf, and all the others, already. It's a LIE, a MARKETING GIMMICK, and it's SHAMEFUL.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. ummm welll yes
they do have all kinds of letters like these all the time...

what is so difficult to grasp?

have you ever served in the military?

write a letter to the soldiers and ask them about it..it is really that simple..

hell even the article pointed out the soldiers were asked to read and sign if they agree with it..

kep reaching and pursue this in the wrong way and you will have another " Americans are stupid" type of coverage in the WSJ

and again
The army has these kinds of letters all the time..ask the soldeirs that were in Somalia bosnia Gulf war I

Like I said..they were even passing them around while I was in korea
and that was under Clinton..go figure

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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I see no record in history
I see no record in history where fake letters appeared in hometown newspapers like this.

Support your claim.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. ummm
what claim? that the army has hometown press releases all the time?

just go to a small town where soldiers are from and the town is pround of said soldiers..

have you ever served? in any branch?
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Boston is not a small town
<eom>
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. so?
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 10:03 PM by kevinc
you said you wanted to see evidence of my claims...

I told you look in smalltown papers and you reply with Boston is not a smalltown..and your point is what?

and what is eom?

http://19tsc.korea.army.mil/19_headquarters/pao/press_releases.htm
http://19tsc.korea.army.mil/19_headquarters/pao/pao.htm
http://hn.afnews.af.mil/index.htm
http://www.hqusareur.army.mil//htmlinks/Press_Releases/2003/Jul2003/21Jul2003-01.htm


just peruse those links and tell this kind of stuff doesnt happen all the time..

and those are just a few out of all these
https://www.us.army.mil/portal/jhtml/search/StandBy.jsp?v=1
i was just warning you to be careful how you respond, because it can bite you in the ass and it will hurt alot more than when you try to bite them..
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. You counter by offering PRESS RELEASES?
Do you even realize how ridiculous your apologetics are looking? The media happens to notice an organized effort to pass off astroturf as "letters from soldiers in the field" about their support for Bush and to participate in the orchestrated marketing effort to sell the US (again) on the 'rightness' of the war on Iraq...and you counter with:

PRESS RELEASES AND NEWS CLIPPINGS

Ah, yes, we should all shut up now. So OBVIOUSLY the same exact thing. Just look at those letters. Don't you see the obvious disclaimer at the top: "Please don't mistake this letter to the editor for an actual letter from a soldier stationed in Iraq, this is actually just an artfully crafted (not at all deceptive) press release..."

I must have missed that disclaimer.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. The media?
one newspaper...

dude you are the one that really needs to get a clue

like i said

you wnat the lowdown write the soldiers

ask them..

but apparently you are afraid to do that..
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. This guy's signature was forged?!?
Sgt. Shawn Grueser of Poca, W.Va., said he spoke to a military public affairs officer whose name he couldn't remember about his accomplishments in Iraq for what he thought was a news release to be sent to his hometown paper in Charleston, W.Va. But the 2nd Battalion soldier

>>>>>said he did not sign any letter.<<<

Although Grueser said he agrees with the letter's sentiments, he was uncomfortable that a letter with his signature did not contain his own words or spell out his own accomplishments.

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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
75. Hey, kevinc.
Thanks for stopping in and for giving an explanation and your take on it.

Thanks for your service, too.

:thumbsup:
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. These are NOT PRESS RELEASES...
...they aren't NEWS FROM THE SOLDIERS IN THE FIELD.

It's ASTROTURF, and we've seen it many times before, true enough, and the reason it's even noted is that it is a DECEPTIVE PRACTICE. Shees, catch a clue already.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. again
step back

remove tinfoil hat


think about it

I forgot that you cant get into the search portal without authorization..but there were 23,000 results in WEB documents alone

what do you want from me really?
links to all 23,000 of them?
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. No, just five or six...
...that aren't just press releases or news clippings, but astroturf letters made to look like real letters from prior to the Bush administration that were signed off on and sent to multiple news outlets to be included in Letters to the Editors sections.

That shouldn't be too hard, right? Not with 23,000 hits confirming that I'm just wearing a tin foil cap. It's not tinfoil, and I resent that. The Bush administration ANNOUNCED that they were launching a new marketing campaign to sell people on the war AGAIN since their support is flagging. And *I'M* the one wearing tinfoil when I notice they got caught being deceptive AGAIN?

Whatever...
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. apparently you missed this
Sgt. Christopher Shelton, who signed a letter that ran in the Snohomish Herald, said Friday that his platoon sergeant had distributed the letter and asked soldiers for the names of their hometown newspapers. Soldiers were asked to sign the letter if they agreed with it, said Shelton, whose shoulder was wounded during an ambush earlier this year.

"Everything it said is dead accurate. We've done a really good job," he said by phone from Italy, where he was preparing to return to Iraq.

in the article that talks about the letters that you are referring too...
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. OMG, DUDE!
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 10:23 PM by w13rd0
No one is arguing that this astroturf wasn't passed around for troops to sign and have sent off to their hometowns. That's established. What YOU have been asked for is evidence of this occurring PRIOR to the Bush administration, which seems keenly fond of deceptive practices, in particular, the use of astroturf.

ON EDIT: be careful, you'll get sick from all the spinning...
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. EXACTLY
RIGHT ON THE NOSE

I could not find evidence of this happening except during Viet Nam, where we sent fake letters to the ENEMY!
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. But other people didn't agree, and
The letters weren't original.

Read the whole article.
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. Ok
well believe it or not alot the forms that are online...
you have to have clearence to view..


go to https://www.us.army.mil/portal/portal_home.jhtml
and register as a guest of the army...if you need a reference email me..

use the link in my profile
and ill give you what you need...

then you can search and peruse till your heart's content..

and Dan if you would look for hometown news programs you will probably find alot more...
noting your narrow view of this situation you probably are searching under army propaganda lies..or some such stuff...
It was a press release pre printed ready for soldiers to sign..they didnt have too...I mean if the army sends out news releases about adopt a school programs why wouldnt they send this out?
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. You semm to think that I am all for this...
Hell I am getting out of the Army after ten years because of crap like this...this is not limited to the bush administration or even just Repugs...ask anyone who has been in the army a day or 2 and they will tell you or do what i said log on to AKO and check for yourself.
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Ignoramus Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. waaa
I'm hoping people won't mistake this practice as being something acceptable.

I read various people here saying essentially:

"look a letter is being made up to look like it was a personal letter sent by individual soldiers, when it was actually not."

To which kevinc is saying essentially:

"no, you don't understand. it's just that a letter is being made up to look like it was a personal letter sent by individual soldiers, when it was actually not."

In my opinion, a letter is being made up to look like it was a personal letter sent by individual soldiers, when it was actually not.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. Perfect analysis of the point made by kevinc.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
85. Yes, the Army has Hometown News Releases...
I was a unit Public Affairs NCO. The guy in charge of dealing with the HTNR program.

The flow of HTNR is vastly different from the flow of Letters to the Editor.

Let's say PFC Joe Jones gets promoted to Specialist. He fills out a form that contains such items as "event being reported" and "name of hometown newspaper." (The "event being reported" block is not very large--maybe four square inches.) After the form's filled out, he turns it in to his unit Public Affairs NCO.

The PANCO sends this form to his battalion adjutant.

Battalion sends it to the Division Public Affairs Officer.

Division sends it to the Hometown News Center at Kelly AFB, Texas, who has the address of every newspaper in America. Kelly generates a weekly hometown news release for every newspaper that has news to report and sends it to them.

Your local newspaper then prints the news in its "News of the Armed Services" column. The Fayetteville Observer has a section on Thursdays that's nothing but military news...well, the military news that didn't make it to the front page, like 82nd Gets New General or Soldier Kills Two Civilians. Hometown News Releases go in there, because many Fayetteville residents who join the Army specifically ask to not be stationed at Fort Bragg. After all, when you join the Army to see the world you don't want to get stationed three miles from your mom's house.

These are LTTEs...soldier writes letter, soldier puts stamp on it, soldier drops letter in mailbox, newspaper prints letter.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Are you threatening to write about us again?
Please, as if I friggin care. Sorry, but the sending out of letters intentionally meant to look sincere as part of an organized propaganda effort, tugging at the emotional strings of those that want to "support our troops"...

And what, pray tell, would be the "right way" of "pursuing this"?
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kevinc Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. LMFAO
Umm no I am not making any threats of any kind...
and I have no Idea of what the "right way " to respond would be...

I am just telling you that you need to watch how you react cause the military does these dort of things all the time..regardless of who is in office...


but you don't care to see that in your thirst for blood..if you would like ill self mod all my posts and you just carry on like i was never here..
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Friendly kick
<kick>
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I agree
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 09:25 PM by DanSpillane
REAL letters are good for REAL PR in REAL WARS.

Phony letters are good for phony PR in phony wars!

I do not know of examples of phony letters in papers until now, I was just asking if China does this, and if Nazi Germany did it?

We already have problems with phony stoties in the NY Times...now phony letters in home-town newspapers?
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
43. Remember when they were told NOT to talk to the press?
After ABC ran footage in a barracks where the soldiers said Rummy should be fired and should have to live like they do?

You can beleive the astroturf or your lying eyes.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
44. Fake letters were often sent to THE ENEMY during past wars?
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 09:43 PM by DanSpillane
"They sent fake letters with inflammatory info to unwitting recipients in North Vietnam, so Hanoi's secret police would think they were traitors or spies."

Q: Since letters are now being sent to papers, is the American public now "the enemy"? Or is "the truth" now the enemy?

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/050.html
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clemencia2us Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #44
78. hometown news release
Mr. Dan,
Air Force people laugh at HNR. Most of us have never filled out one of these forms, so Kevin is wrong when he says this happens in all services. After working with some Army units in Kuwait, I can believe the Army would make their troops do this kind of thing.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
65. One letter was FORGED
Sgt. Shawn Grueser of Poca, W.Va., said he spoke to a military public affairs officer whose name he couldn't remember about his accomplishments in Iraq for what he thought was a news release to be sent to his hometown paper in Charleston, W.Va. But the 2nd Battalion soldier

>>>>>said he did not sign any letter.<<<

Although Grueser said he agrees with the letter's sentiments, he was uncomfortable that a letter with his signature did not contain his own words or spell out his own accomplishments.
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corarose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
66. Let's do a mass email to Letterman & Moore & Byrd
:kick:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
67. i mailed this articles and links to WH with this note...cc. to Congress
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 10:37 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
Dear Mr. Bush*,

You need to fire your advisors and PR firm immediately. They are making you out to look either like a complete incompetent fool or else like you are evil. Please read the attached article below and you tell me?

Sincerely,
my name


Many soldiers, same letter
Newspapers around U.S. get identical missives from Iraq

LEDYARD KING GANNETT NEWS SERVICE The Olympian Online



WASHINGTON -- Letters from hometown soldiers describing their successes rebuilding Iraq have been appearing in newspapers across the country as U.S. public opinion on the mission sours.
And all the letters are the same.

A Gannett News Service search found identical letters from different soldiers with the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment, also known as "The Rock," in 11 newspapers, including Snohomish, Wash.

The Olympian received two identical letters signed by different hometown soldiers: Spc. Joshua Ackler and Spc. Alex Marois, who is now a sergeant. The paper declined to run either because of a policy not to publish form letters.

The five-paragraph letter talks about the soldiers' efforts to re-establish police and fire departments, and build water and sewer plants in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk, where the unit is based.

"The quality of life and security for the citizens has been largely restored, and we are a large part of why that has happened," the letter reads.

It describes people waving at passing troops and children running up to shake their hands and say thank you.

It's not clear who wrote the letter or organized sending it to soldiers' hometown papers.

Six soldiers reached by GNS directly or through their families said they agreed with the letter's thrust. But none of the soldiers said he wrote it, and one said he didn't even sign it.

Marois, 23, told his family he signed the letter, said Moya Marois, his stepmother. But she said he was puzzled why it was sent to the newspaper in Olympia. He attended high school in Olympia but no longer considers the city home, she said. Moya Marois and Alex's father, Les, now live near Kooskia, Idaho.

more at @ below:
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
68. I Have a Hard Time Believing
that any newspaper would fall for this crap. I saw a version of this letter a couple weeks ago, and to me it just screams "fake" the first time you read it. Who writes like this? It sounds like it was written by a WW2 propaganda writer. "Laws are being rewritten"????? A constitution????? "Children smile and run up..." "Soldiers are living among the people...and getting to know their neighbors..." It's the freakin' "Brady Bunch Goes to Baghdad." If newspapers can't see through this nonsense there truly is no hope. Maybe they aren't on the White House payroll, they're just damn STUPID.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Embarassing
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 10:36 PM by DanSpillane
The papers are awfully stupid. Speaking from direct experience.

They just print stuff they are given, with stories they are given. And with them all being bought out...the stupidity grows bigger.

I have for example, a phony voting system certification for Georgia, but no paper would be smart enough to see why that might be a problem.

Shrug.

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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. You can't even argue it is a form letter
Since at least one guy says he never signed it!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. Its all part of the PUBs Psyops Campaign to brainwash Americans
The Pubs are desperate. Low poll numbers, Rummy falling apart, Rush in rehab, Arnold has boot in mouth, no WMD, nbo Osama/Saddam, no victory, body bags still coming, No Spam for the boys, etc.

So the Pubs try something they thought would pass..... it didn't.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
79. Called my local rag to find out if they had gotten one.
They had, but declined to publish it "right now" because we just had a local soldier die in combat.
When I informed them that this was astroturf and gave them the links, they said they would check it out. The editor sounded very upset. NO letters to the editor get published here unless they have a local slant.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. Excellent idea. I will do the same.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
81. Wonder how these newspapers feel...
Being used by BushCo to pimp up his illegal invasion. Maybe NOW they'll finally question some of this crap before rushing to have it printed up with a warm and fuzzy headline for it.

You publishers have been USED and ABUSED by the Bush regime!

David
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anti_shrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #81
86. Well I know my paper is used to it
Our local Scaife rag, The Pittsburgh Tribune Review, ran that letter.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
82. sunday morning kick
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. kicked again
and again.
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