What would society be like if Kennedy was not killed yet Reagan was?

[Deja Q]

Probably a lot better, but I'm no historian... :shrug: What's your take on this intellectual nonsense?

[AntiCoup2K4]

1. If Jack, Bobby, and MLK had survived the 60's....

There's no way in Hell that Jellybeanbrain would have ever been taken as a serious candidate for President, which would have meant George Bush Sr would have had no reason to brainwash the son of a business partner to shoot Reagan.

And yes, we would be looking at a much better America - and world- today.

[Devil Dog Dem]

2. "Hey Hey, JFK! How Many Kids Have You Killed Today?"

Don't know how different things would have been, that is what Viet Nam War protestors would have been chanting instead of directing it towards LBJ.

[htuttle]

3. It came out recently that JFK had decided to leave Vietnam

There was a signed order for US troops to start leaving Vietnam in January 1964. When LBJ came in, he retracted the order, and you know the rest.

What would the 60's have been like without Vietnam? Would there have been a '60's' in America? (maybe...there was a worldwide movement at the time...cf Paris 1968). Without the war, there probably would have been no Nixon too (but, of course, also no 'Nixon-backlash').

You gotta be careful when you're messing with the timeline! (cf. the Temporal Prime Directive).

[niyad]

6. actually, it was known years ago that jfk intended to pull

the troops out of vietnam. some speculation that that is one of the reasons he was assassinated.

had he lived?

no 58,000 dead and untold wounded (both physically and emotionally)


a very different america, with very different priorites then the ones the repukes have saddled us with these forty years.

one way to honour the memories of jfk, rfk, and mlk is to take back our country, stop handing it over to the hate-mongers and neo-fascists currently running it into the ground.

[pop goes the weasel]

13. The troop withdrawals

were only to take place if the war was going well. This is what JFK was hoping would happen in the wake of his approval of the coup that led to Diem's assassination. Johnson, on the other hand, believed that the coup would lead to a worsening of the situation in Vietnam. After the coup, and the unintended (by the White House) murder of Diem, things did indeed begin to unravel, so that the earlier plans for withdrawal were already being shelved before Kennedy's own assassination. NSAM 263, commonly seen as an announcement of planned withdrawals, simultaneously called for escalating the war effort, and JFK publicly began to distance himself from the stated promise of troop withdrawal almost immediately after.

According to JFK/LBJ foreign policy advisor George Ball, "Kennedy would almost certainly have received the same advice and pressures from the same group of advisers who persuaded Johnson to deepen America's involvement."

(All this from Chomsky, _Rethinking Camelot_)

I personally think we would have had much the same war, but that civil rights acheivements might have been permanantly derailed had JFK lived.

[Deja Q]

14. TPD

Ugh. More Trek malarchy! In a Trek world, everything is almost civilized. But this is real life. How do we know that some unscrupulous repuke from the future didn't engineer the death of the Kennedys and make sure that the vile filth known as Reagan didn't die? Repukes ARE known to be unscrupulous, and heaven forbid if someone could figure out the secret to time travel. :scared:

[gulliver]

4. Reagan would have been irrelevant.

JFK would have served two terms. Then RFK.

There would have been no Nixon. Therefore no Nixon butt-boy Bush Senior. Therefore no Cheney/Rumsfeld, no Junior, no neocons.

The USSR would still have folded. (To deny this is to say that Communism is not inherently flawed, which it is.)

JFK Jr. would be a Senator. Caroline would have been just like she is (wonderful), but would have had a happier childhood. Maria Shriver would not have married Arnold. RFK Jr., a brave and strong man in his own right, would have had someone to play catch with....

[Deja Q]

15. Communism, capitalism, what's the difference?

They're all flawed.

Or at least the humans running the systems are flawed.

No Nixon would have been nice...

[rasputin1952]

5. Ah, the infamous, 'what if' scenario...

Who knows?

We can suppose, by circumventing history, that the nation would be a completely different place. Certainly, the country would be different.

I lived through the Kennedy asassination, and I have to say, thank God, we haven't had to go through anything like that since. I actually felt sorry for Reagan when he was shot, and thought of the nightmare scenario that could come about. I really don't want to go through anything like asassinations again.

However, to answer your query, I think the following 'probably' would have happened:

1. We would have been extricated from SE Asia during Kennedy's 2nd term.

2. Johnson would have been elected in '68.

3. Much time and effort would have been spent on the infrastructure and education.

4. The GOP would not have had a chance for at least 16 years after the Johnson years, as Peace and Prosperity for the US would have been the norm rather than a passing notion.

5. Nixon would never have been elected, therefore, no Ford or Carter.
Therefore no Reagan or bush I or bush II. Also, that would have meant, most likely, no Clinton.

Of course, this is simplistic, and really is just a brief overview. But since none of this was to become history; there are a billion possible scenarios to choose from.

Who knows for sure? :shrug:

[DerekG]

7. My theory...

The Cold War might have ended had this foreign policy president lived to his second term, yet the Great Society would be delayed until LBJ was elected in '68 (considering his legislative genius). A more than fair trade-off, considering the 3 million souls extinguished in Southeast Asia.

Then again, who knows? NSAM #263 is an important artifact for Kennedy admirers, but certainly not all-encompassing.

[mitchum]

8. JFK would not be deified

[AP]

10. I don't know if he would have been deified, but I'll bet you that a lot

of core liberal principles which, today, get ridiculed by Rush and Grover Norquidst and Bill O'Reilly would probably be accepted as a matter of course for a VAST number of Americans, and people like O'Reilly, Rush and Nordquist would be pushed so far to the margins. The radical right wing would be very marginalized if JFK and MLK were alive into the 70s, 80s and 90s.

[Deja Q]

16. Which shows the radical right wing probably did kill 'em all...

It makes sense.

And they were considerable forces at the time, and an obvious threat to pukedom.

[AP]

9. I heard on the radio MLK's full Nobel acceptance speech last week and I...

...almost cried thinking about what the world would have been like if he were still alive.

[wuushew]

11. Everyone must play Chrononauts!

Patches
21 cards

1868': Abraham Lincoln Impeached
1917': President Wilson Keeps US Out of War
1918': European Economy Booms
1929': Titanic Explodes
1933': The Mild Recession
1939': Fairgoers Love German Cake
1942': Nuremberg Race Laws Repealed
1944': Warsaw Hosts Olympic Games
1945A: Allied Troops Invade Tokyo
1945B: Nazis Win
1945C: World Peace
1948': Berlin Hosts World's Fair
1950': Zeppelin Factory Opened in Seoul
1962': World War 3
1968': Vietnam Peace Accord Signed
1969': Cosmonauts Orbit Moon
1974': President King Takes Office
1986': Marijuana Legalized
1991': Communism Re-invents Itself
1995': David Koresh's Ministry Opens New Hospital
1999': Guns Banned

http://www.wunderland.com/LooneyLabs/Chrononauts/Default.html

[Yupster]

12. Just rented a movie at Blockbuster

called TimeQuest. It's a what if about Kennedy surviving. It was okay, but I wouldn't really recommend it. Just not much of a story, and I really like what if stories.

[Sean Reynolds]

17. What I think if Kennedy had never been shot.

Basically Kennedy would have won re-election in 1964. During his second term the involvement in Vietnam would have continued exactly the same as it was under LBJ. As stated above, the hatred of Vietnam by the anti-war protesters would have been aimed at Kennedy. The civil rights movement would have been ignored because Kennedy wasn't as solid to the movement as Johnson was. MLK probably wouldn't have been shot because as stated the movement wouldn't have grown as large as it did by 1968. The war on poverty never would have happened. It probably would have come out Kennedy was sleeping around and in 1968 Johnson would have been slaughtered by Nixon in the election.

Nixon wins, pulls the United States out of Vietnam. He begins the civil rights movement once again, the economy booms, US patriotism booms. Nixon still bugs Watergate; resigns while Ford takes over. Of course, we know the rest. But instead of Kennedy looked upon as an amazing leader, his two terms in office are looked back upon as an ultimate failure. Most historians probably would have rated Kennedy toward the bottom in their presidential lists.

Now here we are, early 80s. Reagan is shot dead. Bush becomes president; basically Bush is looked at as a failure, he couldn't capture the aura Reagan had. BUT Bush beats Mondale in a pity vote. The election is close; Bush loses the popular vote.

Bush's second term is riddled with many missteps, the economy has turned for the worst and the nation's unemployment rate is just too high. By November 1988, Bush's vice president - not sure who it'd be, loses to Michael Dukakis and his running mate, Jesse Jackson. There is no Gulf War. The economy rebounds, unemployment shrinks and the nation returns to its prospering days. After 8 solid terms as president, Dukakis' running mate, Jesse Jackson, becomes the first African American president. The economy slowly begins to level out, unemployment rises slightly, but in 1996 Jackson wins a very narrow re-election bid against Bob Dole.

In 1997 Jackson is assassinated. Vice President Jerry Brown becomes president. The next 3 years are average for America. Not much job growth, the economy is stable, and the United States is at peace with the world. In 2000 running for re-election, Brown wins on the slogan "Peace, Progress, Prosperity". There is no 9-11. The economy again begins to pick up and job growth rises like it had in the late 80s and early 90s. We do not attack Iraq. By 2004 the Democrats have held the presidency for 16 years. The Republicans, running on the ticket of "It's time for a change" win the White House in a very close election.

In 2005 two hijacked airplanes fly into WTC, killing 3,000 people. One other is flown into the Pentagon, 300+ are killed there. The final plane crashes in a field in Pennsylvania.

In 2006 we begin our war on terror.

In 2007 we invade Iraq.
-----

You get the point! :)

[Nikia]

18. It would have been better

The Kennedys and King were people who would have made a difference. They were changing things for the better and gave people hope. Now we have the conservative, fscist leaning establishment, determined to stop anyone who would try to replace these hereos of the past, which they had to stop by death. Now they can just stop rising hereos by giving them bad press and rigging elections.